REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

westopher · 05-31-2013, 01:42 PM

So heres the deal guys. I'm 28. I'm a chef and I've had awesome jobs, and shitty jobs. What its coming down to, is I don't see a future in this for me anymore, and I want to get out before I'm 30. The only thing I feel like I have a decent base knowledge in that I'd like to turn into a career is working on cars. I'm an at home wrencher, who does basic stuff, and has some more difficult stuff when I have the time, and a have a very good ability to pick up new things, so I'm not overly afraid of being fairly green at it. Being through the apprenticeship program for cooking already, I am familiar with the way apprenticeship training works. However, I've noticed a couple paths. There is a automotive technician foundation program at bcit. It gives you credit for your first 450 hours, as well as a lot of base knowledge to help you start out. My question is, is this program well regarded in the automotive world? And is it worth it to jump into this to get a better chance at an apprenticeship? With cooking, any asshole off the street can walk in any restaurant and get hired and taken on as an apprentice if he wants to. I know its not very indicative of how things work. Am I better off networking and trying to get in somewhere as a shop gopher and getting onto the tools once I show some initiative?
Any advice/info would be awesome, other than the standard "if you have to ask you can't figure it out" answer.
Its really taking a lot for me to think about giving up what I LOVED but just isn't working for me anymore. Its so comfortable, but a career of comfort is sure not what I'm after. This isn't my only choice for a career change, but its just a thought. As it stands, I fucking hate my job, hate the industry as a whole, and feel like the guy from office space.
Again, any insight is HUGELY appreciated.

mb_ · 05-31-2013, 05:44 PM

If you have to ask you can't figure it out..

In all seriousness, I just finished the same program a few weeks ago. I learned way more than I originally thought. I came into the program not knowing a lot but now I have a much better understanding how a vehicle works and such. The program is about 8 months full time so I recommend you work part time and/or have some money saved up to help you pay for bills and what not. In class work and homework isn't bad, I did get kinda lazy on the tail end of the program but I still passed the course with decent marks. Most of the worksheets/package you get will be based on shop activities. My class would spend most mornings in the class taking notes and such and the rest of the time would be spent in the shop doing activities or working on cars. Some instructors are more strict than others when it comes to bringing student cars in the shop but I didn't find it a problem with mine. The instructors were previous mechanics/techs so you'll be learning from someone that has experience in the "real world". Of course their teaching styles will vary, some will be more helpful than others but bottom line is, you'll be talking to someone who's gone through different experiences in their career.

Here's the 3 different routes you can take:

I think for someone like me who doesn't have too much experience with working on cars, route 2 would be the most beneficial and I know a few other people who took/currently in the same program. I'm not too sure how route 1 works because I never looked into it but route 3 is a bit too complicated and fast paced for my liking. I heard that you'd have to take math, physics, business or some shit like that with route 3

As for employment, I'm currently looking for an apprenticeship job and it's not as easy as I thought. I currently work as a lot attendant at a dealership but god knows when I'll be able to get in the shop. Only 2 people from my class out have gotten jobs so far. I did get one job offer but the guy only offered minimum wage and I would have had to make an hour ish commute each way. I wouldn't see myself lasting in that shop for more than a week because the shopped looked really unorganized and the guy who ran the shop seemed to have a thing against students who came out of BCIT (he openly said VCC is a better school and held nothing back) so I said fuck it I'll keep looking. I'm not really asking for a lot, I think it's fair that I'm looking to work for a decent shop/dealership and have a pay just above minimum wage.

LC21 · 05-31-2013, 06:41 PM

Good on you for getting out while you still can. Waiting for more replies.
Posted via RS Mobile

westopher · 06-01-2013, 12:36 AM

Awesome post MB. That was exactly the kind of response I was interested in. Thanks. So it sounds like it is gonna be a bit of a bitch to get an apprenticeship after the program. I know I'm gonna have to swallow my pride a bit and take a big pay cut for the time being, but minimum wage is crazy. I don't think I could cope with that at my age. I still have cooking to always fall back on, so if there is an amount of time I'd have to wait to find the right job I'm not gonna starve. But after going to school for other things, and not ending up in the field right away, I know very well you can lose knowledge if you don't exercise your abilities. Keep me posted on your path man. I'm interested.

Fafine · 06-02-2013, 07:01 PM

a couple of my buddys finished their level 1 at vcc last sept i believe.
no one in their class has landed a job to what they studied.
only my buddy is doing actual automotive work at a small shop.
everyone else went back to their old jobs, and i believe one or two of them are lot boys washing cars.

westopher · 06-02-2013, 07:04 PM

FACK I was certainly not hoping for that answer, but good to know.

lowda9 · 06-02-2013, 07:10 PM

i didnt find a shop that would hire me until almost 2 years after i finished the course at vcc. Now ive been working in a shop for half a year and i recently asked my boss if he could sign me up as an apprentice and he said yes!

it's really difficult to get hired if you have no experience working in a shop before and the shops seem to not really care that much if you did the schooling. But once you find a shop thats willing to give you a chance then it'll be easier from there because any experience is better than none. for example, the shop that finally hired me i worked there for a month but they had to let me go because i was too green, but after that i found another shop that hired me within a week. But working on cars at home experience doesn't count.

CorneringArtist · 06-03-2013, 01:47 AM

I did the Toyota Foundation in 2010, and while I was already washing cars at the time in a dealership, and was pretty much in the shop at that point. However, I wanted to build a good knowledge base that the accelerated Level 1 program wouldn't provide. The practicum you get out of Foundation makes for a good foot in the door for getting into shops. If the shop you want to apply to is aware of what you can do at home, it does count for a little something knowing that you're at least able to do something. A classmate of mine that did extensive work on his drift Cressida moved to Calgary soon after my program ended, and found a job at a Toyota dealer there. But, he did the lube tech thing for a few months, and found out he could make a killing as an advisor, and switched.

At the dealership level, you will start out washing cars without question, it's just the way the cookie crumbles. Smaller shops will probably have you running basic lube, and cleaning the shop while assisting techs and doing lube jobs. Once the manager notices you bust your ass, he'll move you on to slightly bigger things, and eventually will sign you on as an apprentice. The 450 hours from Foundation helps, but the hours quickly build up the more you work. But really, you have to hand out resumes to as many shops as you can handle, as it's tricky to actually get in unless you had a connection in a high school program.

From my perspective as a now third-year dealer tech, flat rate has caused my skillset to rust due to greed and job distribution. Yes I know everyone needs to make money, but priority should be to learn how to WORK on cars, not change oil all day. I only did my first brake job last month in the three years I've been in the industry, and while I have done a few detailed accessories, I want to actually replace mechanical parts on cars. I have yet to do a water pump, head gasket, and other things that I really should have done by now.

Frankly, I'm a bit scared of what will happen when I do get my red seal, and a large job I've never done before comes along because I spent four years doing nothing but oil changes. No matter how much I ask for more things to do, it hinges on an asshole of a tower operator that plays favourites, and the lack of challenge is frustrating to no end. I'm contemplating moving shops for a fresh start, or making cars a pure hobby and moving into advising. It's hard to learn from other techs when you're also the shop's janitor, errand runner, and whipping boy, while the other apprentices, even the ones that are a lower level are left alone and banging away at jobs that you really should try your hand at before it's too late.

Apologies for the long read, but tl;dr it's not what you know but who you know, and sometimes it's difficult to actually develop as a tech because people need to make money.

Hope this helps

. By the way, if you want the BCIT instructor with experience in Euros (he's a former VW/Audi and BMW tech, drives a Mk6 GTI, and his lecture visual aides consist of old parts from European cars and Top Gear clips), take the Toyota Foundation. It's generally the same as the program mb_ took, but uses Toyota cars that are not pieces of shit like the general cars.

lowda9 · 06-03-2013, 05:34 PM

Corningartist brings up another point that it may be hard to learn from the techs. I was at a shop where i would be doing jobs by myself and no one would show me how to do it. techs sometimes got annoyed when you ask them. And then this new tech was hired and he has been great with showing me how to do everything. he told me that not all techs are asses.

If you're working at a shop and no one is showing you how to do anything. then you should find another shop

see.lai · 06-08-2013, 10:59 AM

I'm a bit worried actually,
I'll be finishing my program at VCC and writing my ITA on friday and I still feel pretty green in this field. I did learn some stuff in this program, but I'm not that confident when it comes to working by myself.
Gonna start finding a job soon; hope it all goes well

Iceman-19 · 06-08-2013, 04:21 PM

Dont do it. If you still want to, don't even bother going to school, because it will not help you get a leg up at all, which is semi-hilarious considering how involved the job can be. Get a job at a dealership as a lube monkey, make 11-12/hr for 6-12 months, then they MIGHT apprentice you. That is the grim sad reality. I took my automotive pre-app, and it was the biggest waste of time and money I have ever done.

Iceman-19 · 06-08-2013, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mb_

If you have to ask you can't figure it out..

In all seriousness, I just finished the same program a few weeks ago. I learned way more than I originally thought. I came into the program not knowing a lot but now I have a much better understanding how a vehicle works and such. The program is about 8 months full time so I recommend you work part time and/or have some money saved up to help you pay for bills and what not. In class work and homework isn't bad, I did get kinda lazy on the tail end of the program but I still passed the course with decent marks. Most of the worksheets/package you get will be based on shop activities. My class would spend most mornings in the class taking notes and such and the rest of the time would be spent in the shop doing activities or working on cars. Some instructors are more strict than others when it comes to bringing student cars in the shop but I didn't find it a problem with mine. The instructors were previous mechanics/techs so you'll be learning from someone that has experience in the "real world". Of course their teaching styles will vary, some will be more helpful than others but bottom line is, you'll be talking to someone who's gone through different experiences in their career.

Here's the 3 different routes you can take:

I think for someone like me who doesn't have too much experience with working on cars, route 2 would be the most beneficial and I know a few other people who took/currently in the same program. I'm not too sure how route 1 works because I never looked into it but route 3 is a bit too complicated and fast paced for my liking. I heard that you'd have to take math, physics, business or some shit like that with route 3

As for employment, I'm currently looking for an apprenticeship job and it's not as easy as I thought. I currently work as a lot attendant at a dealership but god knows when I'll be able to get in the shop. Only 2 people from my class out have gotten jobs so far. I did get one job offer but the guy only offered minimum wage and I would have had to make an hour ish commute each way. I wouldn't see myself lasting in that shop for more than a week because the shopped looked really unorganized and the guy who ran the shop seemed to have a thing against students who came out of BCIT (he openly said VCC is a better school and held nothing back) so I said fuck it I'll keep looking. I'm not really asking for a lot, I think it's fair that I'm looking to work for a decent shop/dealership and have a pay just above minimum wage.

Route one is the way you do it without wasting money. Its what I said. Get a job as a lube monkey on the lube rack, and get apprenticed. Or get in at a smaller shop as a helper/oil change guy. They offer you apprenticeship. Done. Save yourself 5 grand.

westopher · 06-08-2013, 04:41 PM

Oddly enough, after all this consideration of a career change, I just got 2 awesome job offers dropped in my lap for cooking. I guess from the sounds of it I didn't really have the option of doing this anyways. Thanks for the help guys.

Iceman-19 · 06-08-2013, 05:39 PM

You definitely have the option, you would just be hating yourself for making the decision.

westopher · 06-08-2013, 05:48 PM

Perhaps option was the wrong word. Regardless, it sounds like at my age the decision would likely leave me pretty bitter. I'm still not sold at doing what I'm doing, but at least I'm going to be making some more money while I'm trying to figure it out for the time being.

JAYWALKER · 06-10-2013, 11:56 AM

I did the ELTT last year. Ever since school ended, I am just washing cars all fking day at a dealership. I only get to work on cars on Saturday because the Lube Tech is off...

And when the service manager knows you have car knowledge, hes going to use you to the limit (wash cars, mount/change tires, stock up parts, change wiper blades/lights... literally do EVERYTHING).

The only reason I stay here is I get to use their equipments since I don't have a garage/drive way at home to work on my car. Time for a career change my friend.

Anyways, if you are serious.. look for a good company to work for. Jim Pattison, Morrey, Regency etc.
Remember, you must also do side jobs @ home to make more $.

I personally want to switch career now to make more $ so I can afford all the tools + parts I want

CorneringArtist · 06-10-2013, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ar ex seven

Anyways, if you are serious.. look for a good company to work for. Jim Pattison,

some are well run, but for me this is far from the truth.

daytona675 · 06-11-2013, 04:46 PM

You better be up for the grunt. Ever since I got out of aviation, I been busting my balls trying to get up from a massive wage of 10$/hr. I've spent 5 yrs in this automotive trade and i'm now 29. The weaklings will get weeded out. You need to love this trade to give you the motivation to keep going. And not cry about buying tools or working on the weekends, in the cold, in the hot, changing tires. This is the truth.

On paper, i'm still level 1, but i've done timing belts/chains, water pumps, engine swaps, head gaskets, electrical, suspension, brakes, etc. Going to finish my apprenticeship in a yr hopefully and use that to negotiate an actual wage I can live on.

If you don't want to be a lube boy all your life @ a dealership and actually learn something, find a general repair shop that will take you on. You will learn so much more early on, and gain confidence in the work you do. Be keen to learn, ask the techs you are working with, they will share their knowledge with you.

Show confidence, and ask for more difficult work. If you don't ask for more difficult work, you will be never be challenged and not figure crap out, and be lube boy all your life.

bloodmack · 06-11-2013, 05:26 PM

I've done pre apprenticeship.. finished oct 2012.. i've had 1 interview and have applied to several places. Seems hopeless.

fliptuner · 06-11-2013, 05:26 PM

I would seriously reconsider being a tech as a career. I used to be a tech but when you have to work with deadlines, customers and the same old shit everyday, it loses it's appeal, real quick. What was once a hobby turned into a chore.

Now, out of the daily grind at a shop, I'm back to only doing my own projects, helping friends out and the odd customer and enjoy turning wrenches again.

On a side note, one of my best friends was in the same boat as you a few years ago. He went to a top culinary school and worked at a few really good restaurants and hotels and just felt....stuck. I get it, I know your hours and pay and how hard you work. He ended up getting a job at a highschool, helping run the culinary program, getting benefits, summers off, etc. and he loves cooking again. Him and a buddy just did the Italian booth at Eat Vancouver and he still enters competitions from time to time. He also does catering on the side, for extra cash.

My point is, your industry doesn't just mean cooking in a restaurant. There are a lot of other things you can do within it that pays better and might reignite your passion for cooking.

GL

westopher · 06-12-2013, 01:49 AM

Just took a new job under one of the best chefs in the city, with a big raise. I'll keep it quiet where it is until we open, then you will be hearing from me where to come enjoy some great food.

Xu.Vi · 06-12-2013, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westopher

Just took a new job under one of the best chefs in the city, with a big raise. I'll keep it quiet where it is until we open, then you will be hearing from me where to come enjoy some great food.

:OOOOOOOOOOOO grats

Energy · 06-12-2013, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westopher

Just took a new job under one of the best chefs in the city, with a big raise. I'll keep it quiet where it is until we open, then you will be hearing from me where to come enjoy some great food.

Congrats!

JAYWALKER · 06-12-2013, 07:25 PM

Congrats on the job!

Anyways.. regarding this subject...
Daytona675 is right, you must love the trade. I am blessed that I had great instructors and mentors at work who taught me everything I know today.

When I am at work, I would make deals with the journeymans so they can teach me things. Making deals would be like "teach me brake jobs, I help you do brake jobs" etc, therefore they can make more yet I am learning something.

Sorry for bad english, I am just happy to share my experience with others.