Why I will not be keeping my 997 GT3, and why "shitty" cars are better cars...

[jasonturbo]

Hello RS,

*Disclaimer: This is all a matter of opinion

First of all, a bit of a history lesson, I have owned a number of vehicles, more than most (Possibly even more than TOFU!), many of which have been modified, some of which include; (In order of most recent)


2005 STI, current winter car, about to receive bunch of mods this week!


2004 BMW M3, lots of parts, loved this car.


2011 STI, lots of parts, big dissapointment.



2001 DC2-R, lots of parts, super clean, the BEST CAR I HAVE EVER OWNED.


1999 EM1; B18C-R, coils, typical ricer honda interior bits


2008 Civic Si, not a bad DD.


2001 S2k, basically stock, such a great car.




1998 DC2-R, lots of parts, did N/A build, pure nightmare, #regretmodding.

Just as a general comment, this is only going back to 2009-ish, prior to that I owned a large variety of modded/swapped Honda's and Nissan's. I am also leaving out a number of recent vehicles such as my K20A2 EP3 and 1997 DC2-R. I will not even bother touching on all the vehicles that belonged to other people that I have had the chance to drive.

Moving right along!... Just a few months ago I purchased this rather immaculate 2007 Porsche GT3;


2007 Porsche 911 GT3 for sale, 6-Speed Manual, Vancouver, B.C., Canada, Weissach <---- more pics

This purchase was significant for me for the following reasons;
- The price tag of 100k, I am not rich, nor do I come from a rich family etc.
- I have wanted one of these cars for the better part of 5 years.
- Because race car.

Now for the part where I explain how the GT3 did not live up to my expectations... or how it exceeded them in an unacceptable manner :s Simply put, the car is TOO FAST.

Right now a number of you are sitting there looking at your screen saying "Well it's a GT3, what the #*$& did you think it would be, slow?"... Yeah yeah yeah, I know, just wait, I'll explain.

It is difficult to enjoy the car on the street for the following reasons;
- Acceleration: First gear is no fun in any car, second gear winds out to 120km/hr +, so if you feel like wringing the car out, you are playing a very risky game with the Police, and potentially the safety of yourself and others.
- Handling: You can take any turn in the city at 100km/hr+ and you will never even be touching on the capabilities of the chassis/suspension, and you feel this, it all feels very boring at any speed less than ludicrous.
- Braking: You can't legally achieve any speed that will even get these brakes warmed up.

Overall: Yes this car is an amazing machine, but you can only actually experience this amazement on a RACE TRACK, period. Perhaps if I lived near VIR and could track my car 10+ times per summer and afford the crazy costs associated with Porsche race car maintenance and repair it would make more sense.

So what does it all mean and why did I feel the need to share this?

I suspect that many of you are similar to myself, you see a GT3/Lambo/Ferrari and you assume driving a car like that can provide an experience that is unmatched by your Honda/Nissan/Toyota/Etc. piece of shit. Well yes, it can provide an experience that is unmatched by your moms G35, but, only if you have access to a world class race track, or are willing to risk losing your license and killing bystanders on the reg.

Now on the other hand, let's talk about your piece of shit and the experience it provides.
- Your car is slow, you say things like "I'm going to break a 15 second quarter with this new skunk2 header" (No, it won't btw)... though your car is slow, it's also poorly built for high speed, so it offers the sensation of going fast!
- Most corners and off ramps are exciting, that shitty suspension geometry makes it feel very unstable and exciting, cause it is!
- Braking, the odd time you have to get on your brakes, it's a constant reminder that you need a BBK! #exciting

Simply put, your car that costs <15k is much more fun on the street every day than a 100K GT3 or any real super car etc.

So for all of you people on RS with shitty old imports, don't covet other peoples expensive cars, chances are they don't have nearly as much fun as you do Yeah they're probably ballin' and get more pussy than you do, but hey, #tinder has got your back. I swear that I would have more fun in Westophers E36, MB's MR2, lexluthor09's S2k, TRD RS200's EK9, long's ITR, TOFU's Fiat (Assuming you still own it), Tjalmeida's BRZ (OR was it FRS?), Snails' EF (**SORRY!**), etc than I do in the GT3, or any other car with that level of performance.

Anyway, I know this is a mess, but I'm strongly considering getting back into a slower car so that I can once again enjoy driving fast. Of all the cars I have owned and driven, the one that stands out most to me was my Yellow ITR We were so perfect for each other.

Discuss, has anyone else experienced the same feelings? Cars that perform too well to be enjoyed on the street???

BRB buying ITR.

[dared3vil0]

More fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.

I hate to use such an over used cliche but it's true.

Though i can't even begin to imagine what a GT3 must be like, i had WAY more fun on the street in an 07 Civic Si, than the Mustang, simply because manual trans in the Si, and i would shift like 4 times to get to 120kmh. The Mustang? Tap the little "selecshift BS lever" once and 2nd gear is good to 140kmh. breaking every speed limit in BC by a good margin in 2nd gear is ridiculously boring.

Here's to driving slow cars at speeds that are relatively tame, and having a metric fuck ton of fun.

[Yodamaster]

I intend to make my next purchase a beater 240/60/80Z to thrash without giving a shit, a large part of having fun is not having to worry about scratches, dents, and rust.

[fliptuner]

So what you're saying is, you need smaller tires and shitty brakes.

I understand what you mean, which is why I don't ride sportbikes any longer.

[Lomac]

And you were so excited to buy it, too! lol

I do have to agree with you, however. I've been lucky enough to drive some exotics in the past (DB9, F430 Scud, LP560-4, 996 GT3, R35 GTR) and while they were all fantastic experiences, I was always fearful of having too much fun in them. They were all so fast and capable that you could never really have any fun unless you were at their limits, which all tended to be at close to twice the legal speed limit of the Coquihalla or the type of cornering at the 'Ring. You're always watching your speed and throttle position because two seconds of burying the throttle at second gear will undoubtedly rocket you to speeds that will give a traffic cop a field day.

Whereas on the flip side, just like how James May likes to talk about the Fiat Panda being more fun, "shittier" cars have less power and less grip, so you're always closer to the edge of those car's limits. As a result, taking that twisty mountain road at 70km/h is more fun because you're starting to test the limit of your own abilities and not the car.

[Noran]

Okay James May.

IMO anything above 200hp can't be exploited in any "safe" manner on any road in BC.

pls track your 997GT3 at least once and take as many gopros as you can.

[dared3vil0]

Originally Posted by Noran

Okay James May.

IMO anything above 200hp can't be exploited in any "safe" manner on any road in BC.

pls track your 997GT3 at least once and take as many gopros as you can.

I'm sure there any plenty of sub 200hp Miata's etc that have cornering speeds nearing super car territory, it jus took them a hell of a lot longer to get there!

[jasonturbo]

Originally Posted by Lomac

You're always watching your speed and throttle position because two seconds of burying the throttle at second gear will undoubtedly rocket you to speeds that will give a traffic cop a field day.

This X10000000

[The_AK]

I feel you on this post, first thing thought that came to my mind when I upgraded to my latest car was "where will I be enjoying this?". That being said I've overcome this problem

Out of curiosity though, why do you feel the 2011 STI was a big disappointment compared to 2005? I have a friend who's potentially going to buy one.

[jasonturbo]

Originally Posted by The_AK

Out of curiosity though, why do you feel the 2011 STI was a big disappointment compared to 2005? I have a friend who's potentially going to buy one.

To me the GR was not much of an improvement over the GD, specific complaints I had about the GR include;
- Handling was horrid, even after KW V3, big sticky rubber, RCE sways, and proper alignment.
- Interior plastics show everything!!! They mark up so easy it's crazy.
- Road noise, oh god the road noise.
- Paint quality certainly hasn't improved at Subaru over the last 20 years
- Gas door wouldn't open
- GR was an ugly car I tried to learn to love, turns out ugly stays ugly forever.

Specifically what do I like about the GD more? (All IMO)
- Chassis communicates much better
- Interior materials are superior
- Ricer spoiler (jk)
- "feels" faster than GR
- Parts are plentiful and cheaper!

Mehhh, I never took at GR STI for test drive before I bought one, big mistake. I still believe it's a much better car for the money than EVO X though.

[PuYang]

I really like your post for many reasons. One, I feel the same (minus having a list of awesome cars). I guess what I'm trying to say is I understand? or atleast believe you sincerely :P

I own a (was brand new) GTI mk6, which I traded in my 1999 Honda Prelude for. The GTI is a great car, but part of me keeps wanting to go back to older/used cars. The Prelude wasn't great at all. Definitely not a ITR. But I still miss it. Just shifting through the gears was so much more fun. The clunkyness added more character and fun than my "refined" GTI.

I keep telling myself to go look for a nice Integra Type R... but I already paid off my GTI and can't possibly let it go so quickly after doing so.

^ after typing that, I sorta realized your experience is much more different than mine. GTI is a POS in comparison to most of those cars on your list LOL.

Its funny when people ask what my dream cars are, and I list a bunch of cars sub $30k. I strongly believe I'd have so much more fun in a cheaper car.

If I may ask, what was so different from your Yellow ITR to your White one? One you labelled as a nightmare, and the other is your best car ever. What kinda mods did you do to them that makes them so different?

[jasonturbo]

Originally Posted by PuYang

If I may ask, what was so different from your Yellow ITR to your White one? One you labelled as a nightmare, and the other is your best car ever. What kinda mods did you do to them that makes them so different?

Yellow car has very low miles, I think the chassis just felt really fresh, bushings in better shape, chassis metal has undergone less cyclic loading etc. The yellow car was totally one of those "more than the sum of it's parts" things. The engine and trans in the yellow car were also just super healthy, that ITR didn't squeak or rattle at all, exhaust sounded perfect, spoon suspension was amazing, etc. It was just perfect. I sold it 4 months after it was out of the body shop, I guess yellow hard to spot, two different people crashed into that car within 3 months of the fresh repaint. FML I was bitter, sold the car.

White car, ugh. Engine always felt weak, eventually the exhaust cam seized in bearing surface and t-belt skipped teeth. Got lucky and pistons didn't suffer any damage, went to install new head and discovered that half of the head studs were installed by apes, someone had stripped a bunch of threads out on the block side. Eventually got that all straightened out and then made the mistake of installing Sk2 pro 1 cams, I hate Sk2 products but took a chance. Mistake, Pro 1 makes shit power unless you are very high comp. Ended up trading that white ITR + cash for the S2k, S2k was wonderful

[sdubfid]

A brake rotor on that Porsche is worth more than my vehicle.

[jeedee]

sooooo.....................does this mean I can have your GT3

sierce

[twitchyzero]

moral of the story
buy all da intgwa type ARRs
inflate the market value

[hud 91gt]

I feel bad you had to spend 100k to find out what anyone spending 3k on a sport bike knows sigh. At least it's still gorgeous when you walk by it. Haha


Edit: I see ice boy beat me to it. Ha

[GotRice?]

but a porsche can get lots of badges

[jasonturbo]

Originally Posted by hud 91gt

I feel bad you had to spend 100k to find out what anyone spending 3k on a sport bike knows sigh. At least it's still gorgeous when you walk by it. Haha


Edit: I see ice boy beat me to it. Ha

I did the sport bike things years ago lol I almost crashed it a few times, got lucky, decided to quit while ahead :s

[fliptuner]

There's enough money up there to break even or profit, no?

[Groot]

i remember pming you about your PY ITR back when. Wish I had the money to build it back then

[radioman]

So you're telling me to buy a Cayman s right? This is all I got from this

[yray]

you forgot that every brocivic wants to race you

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by jasonturbo

don't covet other peoples expensive cars

This should be the main point of this post. Of course applying to everything, not just cars.

[TjAlmeida]

Originally Posted by jasonturbo

Tjalmeida's BRZ (OR was it FRS?)

.....Trade?


Just bugging. Cool read and nice to hear from the other side of the spectrum! I am in the same boat.. sort of. I miss owning something cheaper, older, that i enjoy pushing more. I seem to be always finding myself on on the teeter between fun and fuel efficient. Where as when i had my FC, not that i miss treated it, but i had so much fun red lining it and at the end of the day getting 12mpg and fueling 94 I was still smiling.

Now I am getting minimum 26mpg and i get upset because I know i could have gotten closer to 27-28.. SMH

Good luck with your sale and hope you enjoy and appreciate what your next vehicle brings you.

[tastic]

If you sell, are you also considering another porsche with less hp or will you be getting something from your previously-owned list?