Speak it Out

[Bonka]

Having children too late in life supersedes financial readiness. Being an older parent has plenty of disadvantages and it's certainly harder to work around the issues that come from that (e.g. physical, mental). My wife works with plenty of children with issues as their parents are older. That is a lot more to bear.

The first few years of a kid's life really isn't taxing on finances outside of the expected hard costs (e.g. diapers, formula). The damage starts from when they start school so the opportunity to save is still there. Ultimately, there is no right way to decide when to have kids but any plan is better than no plan. We planned around finances as well but decided if we waited for financial readiness we would be hitting our 40s by the time we were ready.

Having that second child really is where the pain starts

[Traum]

Originally Posted by Bonka

Having children too late in life supersedes financial readiness. Being an older parent has plenty of disadvantages and it's certainly harder to work around the issues that come from that (e.g. physical, mental). My wife works with plenty of children with issues as their parents are older. That is a lot more to bear.

Another issue that I can't stress enough is -- the risks of the child having developmental and health issues go up significantly as the parents age, and it isn't just the mom being old that increases the risks. IMO, our society right now is already delaying child birth too much -- as far as the health of the babies are concerned, it is my opinion that becoming first time parents in the mid 30's is already too late. Unfortunately, that is how society is shaping up to be.

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by instantneedles

It sounds like a lot of the resistance towards having kids is coming from the commitment you have to give to it.

For you people considering having kids, how much does $$ also play a factor in your decision?

The biggest barrier for me honestly is the financial commitment - I don't really have a stable job atm because I work as a contractor, so the thought of having to pay for another human being for at least the first 25 years of their life is hard to imagine

I think it's a bit of both.

There is somewhat a commitment issue to taking on a responsibility that will last my entire life, for sure. The other is certainly financial.

Currently, I'm saving to purchase a place, which is my main priority before ever having a child.

I'm 36 and my GF is 33, so we're definitely getting there in terms of age, but I've made it clear what my priorities are, and having a child right now is not one of them.

[GS8]

Originally Posted by PK-EK

so I'm going to be blunt, and since my break up; I ain't sugar coating shit no more. (yes, the old hopeless romantic PK-EK is dead, you miss him? go back 500 pages, has back there)

you and her are two different people in two different worlds
she is focused on her family and getting her life on track.

I noticed this when I dated the fresh off the boat mainlander girl.
since I was CBC, the things I valued were not completely in line with her.

you won't be happy to be with her.
you understand why her family and rest of her life is important to her, but you will only be able to put up with it for a while before it consumes you.
you will feel like she isn't giving it 100% and you will feel like its not fair
you will be burnt out
you will feel dead inside after it is all over

stop now, go find a nice girl to have some fun dates with and to sleep with.
then move on, this one isn't good. she is not on the same wave length as you. move on

She told me a few days ago she has a literal love / hate relationship with her mother. Anytime she brings her mother up in conversation, the entire tone changes and the conversation is basically ruined at that point. I usually leave for the night.

She's a good person but, objectively, she's way behind the curve when you factor in her age and what milestones she's crossed and yet to cross in her life. Most people have crossed those milestones while she's still years away.

In hindsight, BICCY was right. Those who claim to hate drama swim in it...



ANYWAY...



I bought an elliptical last week. The previous owner told me I should have my buddy or girlfriend help me out


Buddy:

Girlfriend:


While he had a good point. I was able to do it all myself. That's how I carried myself through life anyway. I loaded my full size car up with the dismantled components and drove from Richmond to Coquitlam. I unloaded everything by myself, hauled it to the elevator, waited for the elevator, then hauled everything to my suite. The main 'pedal' piece waited probably 50lbs.

But how to assemble the thing without buddy or girfriend?

Easy: Dental floss!

Spoiler!

And it works too after sitting in storage for 6 years

I will always be self-reliant. People just get in the way. Hell, many people will take the safe, paved, well lit path in their life. I'm happy with deep brush and a sickle.

Spoiler!

YouTube

[Euro7r]

Originally Posted by Traum

Another issue that I can't stress enough is -- the risks of the child having developmental and health issues go up significantly as the parents age, and it isn't just the mom being old that increases the risks. IMO, our society right now is already delaying child birth too much -- as far as the health of the babies are concerned, it is my opinion that becoming first time parents in the mid 30's is already too late. Unfortunately, that is how society is shaping up to be.

I'm curious to know how many of you guys actually have friends/family that have had kids that had health developmental issues? We tend to hear don't have kids when you get too old (mainly from friends as we are surrounded in a world with mass amount of information). Out of every 10 friends, is there 1 that has issues? I had a coworker at my last job and he was literally 49 with his wife, they had their one and only kid after trying to have for so many year. No issues with the kid, he's athletic and in 1st year post secondary now.

Having kids is something that we can't seem to make it "when" it will happen, as much as we plan it in advance. There are people that will say let's do it at 35 and then they can't conceive until 40, so it's not as easy as say fucking your wife and boom comes out the baby. Still a lot of things into consideration aside from the finance.

[dark0821]

First I got your sis her class 7N, with me coaching her in my own fucking brand new prius everyday afterwork...unpaid ofc....

and now this... Holy faaack...

So what I put up a bitch face, I am already helping the extended family out, doesnt mean I have to enjoy it.

I dont mind giving a helping hand when yea... I get it, they aren't good at English. But holy fuck... to call me @ my work because brother in law has to set up a family doctor appointment?!

What the actual fuck, and when I finally set up the stupid phone call appointment. All he needed was to email the symptoms to the doc before the phone call...

And then what I get "Oh, I am too busy to take a photo, can you reschedule?", Its 11am and the appointment is at 2:40PM, there is fucking 3.5 hours to take a fucking photo.

The doctor speaks CANTO, call them yourself... Just cuz my wife is pushover doesnt fucking mean I am...

///End rant... I cant believe my wife is giving me grief because I came home with a bitch face...

[instantneedles]

Yeah some good points.

There's clearly a health risk from having kids later in life, but I feel like one advantage out of it is that you're more mature at 40 years old vs. 30 years old and your ability to take care of your kids in their early years (when it matters the most) is better.

My Grandma had her kids at a young age, but felt ill-equipped as a young adult to raise all these kids on her own, with a husband who was always working.

[TOS'd]

Originally Posted by PK-EK

so I'm going to be blunt, and since my break up; I ain't sugar coating shit no more. (yes, the old hopeless romantic PK-EK is dead, you miss him? go back 500 pages, has back there)

Bring back old hopeless romantic PK-EK pls.

[GS8]

Another thing to consider with having children when you're older, simply put, is energy levels.

How many of us in our 30s or 40s are able to do what we could in our early 20s? Besides exceptions, most people would say that can't 'drink like they could' or 'snowboard like they could' etc.

Imagine raising one or more children (infants - toddlers) into your 40s? By then, where you are career wise? Junior executive assistant looking to climb and therefore have to put in extra hours to 'level up'? Or are you in a managerial role and, thus, have to spend extra hours at the office?

All while your children are at home needing your attention because your spouse is in the exact same position as you are.

Seems like having kids in your 20s was the norm but I feel like people have mentally developed 10 years too late. A 22 year old acting like they're 12, 32 year old acting like they're 22. I feel like the concept of 'growing up' has dissolved into the either.

Yes, we should blame our institutions. Where has education gone? Better yet, where has wisdom gone?

[Traum]

I know quite a few people who didn't have kids until they are older, and unfortunately, there are a good number of them whose kids have various issues.

A cousin didn't have her first kid until she was in her late 30's, and her 2nd one until she was around 40. The first one had some sort of speech delay, and the 2nd one had a (non-hereditary) condition where her body can't produce a certain something to regulate something else. It is an uncurable condition, although it can be medically managed. Before the doctors were able to figure out exactly what was wrong with the 2nd child, she was extra chubby in the first few years of her life because of the condition. There were endless numbers of medical appointments, and for my cousin and her husband, I'm sure it was extremely stressful as a result. Both kids seem to be fine now, but of course, the 2nd kid will require special medication her whole life to control her condition.

Another couple I know didn't have their first child until the wife was in her late 30's, and the husband in his early 40's. The child turned out to have a mutation in his genes where it made him frail since he was born, and there are a lot of health complications associated with it. In the past, this kind of disease was associated with a dramatically shortened life expectancy where the person typically doesn't live past their 30's. With medical advancements, the life expectancy has dramatically increased.

Another couple I know has 3 children, with the youngest one being born when the mom is in her late 30's. The youngest child is diagnosed with Asperger syndrome. Another couple I know is in a similar situation, but the youngest child has some degree of autism instead of Asperger. It was fortunate that they got their child into early intervention, so the kid seems to be functioning sufficiently well, but you'd still know he is not a "normal" child. Another couple where the wife had their first child in her mid 30's, while the husband is in his late 30's has an autistic child. They still decide to have a 2nd kid. Fortunately, their 2nd child is fine.

As a normal parent, I know how taxing it already is to raise a child. Seeing my friends look after their children with some of the above issues absolutely puts me to shame. I suppose when someone is put into that sort of situation, you eventually accept the reality and deal with it the best you can. From my perspective though, I honestly think I would go crazy / cannot provide that level of parental support and responsibility.

Originally Posted by Euro7r

I'm curious to know how many of you guys actually have friends/family that have had kids that had health developmental issues? We tend to hear don't have kids when you get too old (mainly from friends as we are surrounded in a world with mass amount of information). Out of every 10 friends, is there 1 that has issues? I had a coworker at my last job and he was literally 49 with his wife, they had their one and only kid after trying to have for so many year. No issues with the kid, he's athletic and in 1st year post secondary now.

The timing thing that you mention is also a troublesome issue when parenthood is delayed. The older we get, the less fertile we become, and that applies to both males and females. I know a few couples who have fertility issues, and at least 2 of them are "older" -- one couple where both persons are in their late 30's, and another where the wife is in her late 30's and the husband in his early 40's when they first discovered the fertility issue. The late 30's couple tried IVF multiple times, over at least a span of 2 years, and they were fortunate enough to be successful. The other couple wasn't so lucky. The wife really wanted to have their own child, and seems to have developed clinical depression from the stress of the numerous failed IVF attempts.

Bear in mind that IVF is not cheap -- I don't know how much; I just know it is not cheap. Also, each attempt also seems to be both stressful and painful.

Having kids is something that we can't seem to make it "when" it will happen, as much as we plan it in advance. There are people that will say let's do it at 35 and then they can't conceive until 40, so it's not as easy as say fucking your wife and boom comes out the baby. Still a lot of things into consideration aside from the finance.

At the other end of the spectrum, I have a colleague who have been unsuccessfully trying to naturally conceive with his wife for years. They have pretty much come to accept that they will be childless. But a few years ago, when my colleague was in his mid 40's and his wife in her early 40's, the wife successfully became pregnant, and their kid seems to be a perfectly normal and happy child.

Medically, we know the risks goes up as the parents get older. Anecdotally, we may not know these "stories" around us, but they are defintely there.

[mikemhg]

My mother had me when she was 42. I only drool sometimes..

[6793026]

i'm 41, gf is 37, going to walk down the road of rings + wedding + kids.
"people" are getting married later cause no idea whyyyy m maybe the universe is that way, maybe we were just tempted with FOMO and swipe everything and thinking we can all find a better gf / bf.

No longer are people getting married in the 20s, not even 30s but late 30s now... can't socially explain why but that's how i ended up.

fully prepped my gf that kids are not guaranteed and we have to be careful we can't take that for granted.
I did to her that we can never be too prepared to have enough money.
We just have to know our limit; what is necessity and what is just "nice to have" eg// leather booster seats / strollers cause it's so much easier etc...

[Euro7r]

^I think end of the day, do what you believe should be done and not what others tell you what you should be doing. Society will tell you to go to school, find a good job and get married/have kids young. Who are we trying to please by doing what we are told to do or should do (who is even making up these timelines). Everyone is a different phase in life and I feel we get pressure a lot from external variables that add no value to the overall health of our well-being. Stress creates a lot of negative impact on the body, just go with the flow of life with an open mind.

For me, I don't think I'll be financially prepared for anything unless my parents handed me down the house LOL. Financially stable in my mind right now at my age would be home paid off, $500K liquid cash flow .

[donk.]

What i want to know is, how many ricesceners never want to get married or have kids

Il start:
1. Donk.

[mikemhg]

In a perfect world, I'd never get married or have kids.

Alas this isn't a perfect world, and thus I'll very much likely end up having to do at least one of those.

2. Mike

[bcrdukes]

you broke the list already lol

[Hondaracer]

1.Donk
2.Mike
3. Hondaracer

Don’t discount people having kids later in life as people are also living much longer and healthier than our parents etc.

My wife and I were flipping through an old photo album and came across pictures of her grandma holding my wife when she was born. Her grandma at the time was late 50’s and she looked like she was 80. Albeit generally immigrants who had a hard time (they were both from Croatia/Yugoslavia and survived and escaped numerous wars etc lol)

Imo getting married and having kids in what seems to be an “optimal” time given the opinions here (mid 20’s) that sounds like a recipe for misery/divorce to me imo.

My sister has two kids now and she’s in her late 20’s. They have a seemingly solid family
Structure, good jobs, solid income etc. But they still rent a basement suite, will likely necer have the funds to purchase a detached home etc. His parents also rent and have no money to support him so odds are my parents will be giving them money to buy a townhome etc. Because they want to look after their grandchildren.

I’m 35 and I look at their situation snd in like no ducking way in hell is that what I want lol. I’m fairly well travelled and spoiled that way. I’ve been to 24 different countries over approx 5-6 months of travel time. Europe 5 times in the last 11 years etc. And I’m only hungrier than ever to travel and get away. Not only that but I can basically Persue frivolous hobbies, waste money on stupid bullshit etc. Lol. If I was locked into a situation with a few kids I would legitimately feel an overwhelming sense of dread and I think I would be in a bad place mentally. And I’m Somone who throughout my entire life I can honestly say I’ve almost never experienced any sort of mental health/depression bouts.

[Presto]

1. Donk
2. Mike
3. Hondaracer
4. Presto

My marriage is built on the foundation of no kids. My wife was adamant on not having any kids, and I was good with that. We left it to our siblings to give grandkids to our parents. Kids are great, but they are stressful AF. I have no desire to do more work. My goal has always been to cut out as much unnecessary stress as much as possible.

The less stress the better. I was looking at a picture of my family in the early 80s. My dad would've been the same age I am now (~43), and he looked a lot older. He definitely had a rougher time in life getting away from the commies, and having to move to a new country, but kids took the last of his youth. Meanwhile, I still have all my hair, and I get ID'd regularly.

[CorneringArtist]

Who knew it would take just being relatively real to find a girlfriend who moves at the same speed? Dating with my cards hidden just meant being fake, and getting into high energy situations that were more anxiety-inducing than fun.

[GS8]

It's Friday night so I'm gonna give a little update here regarding the first girl. This thread needs to keep going.

So this first girl I mentioned. She tries pretty hard to protect her true thoughts but she slipped today.

She basically let out how fed up she is getting of her work arrangement. She's a TFW from the Philippines and is living with and working for her sister. It sounds like a sweet gig but apparently becoming too much for her as even on her days off, she basically gets kidnapped by her family 'because flips' so she has no free will to go places on her own and *cough* meet other people.

I asked her when her contract was over and she said Mar 2023

I feel bad for her as she's really a nice person. She's just trapped right now. She's already late to life, has to endure this and will be even further behind as her education she obtained in the Philippines is irrelevant here. She needs to start again. It was just interesting to see her just blurt it out after hiding it so well for so long (I've known her since pre-Covid).

Of course she's in a tight spot. Can't fight with family / your employer. I empathize with her especially since my own family's gene pool can fit in a thimble.

I am NOT getting involved. She's just talking with me and slowly letting things out. I have no plans to get involved. Right now we're just friends talking, nothing more. She just needs someone outside of her family as she has no one. Her fragility is showing more and more.

I will not abandon her in this state.

/Spoke out

[Mr.Money]

i see so many stable couples look after tiny dogs or some sort of pet together as a child replacement.


honestly when i heard a female say "I never want to have kids cause it just ends up making everything Loose".....i completely understood where she was coming from, her choice.

also lot of career driven people tell me "Yeah i'm always Working My Kids are gonna be Speaking Spanish".... you know taking up the Maids local language. as in a joke but most likely true way.

[Euro7r]

Not relationship related. What is up with people that need to chime into others lives about goals/visions. Why can't they stay in their own lane and do their own shit? It doesn't even concern them. Been getting colleagues that ask me about my goals with career and whatnot. Not everyone wants/needs to be a manager, some people are just happy the way they are doing the regular routine. Why is that everyone feels like you gotta work all the way up to a manager role? It's like if you aren't manager by a certain time period, it seems to bother them or they think it's strange you aren't one.

[instantneedles]

Taking on a management position blocks you from investing time into side gigs/passive income streams outside of work imo

[Euro7r]

Originally Posted by instantneedles

Taking on a management position blocks you from investing time into side gigs/passive income streams outside of work imo

To me, not everyone is interested in working 60+ hours a week or managing people as manager, some just want to do their own thing and go home with 40 hours a week. People view that against men are unmotivated or not career driven.

Isn't it ultimately down to what makes the individual happy? I'm happy being in my position and have no desire to go into management (not that I have the skills or plan to pursue the skills). I'm happy working my 40 hours and then do my side gig to create extra $.

I get the comment about, you should have goals/visions in life. Not everyone's goal/vision in life is about career/money and I find that it is hard to ever discuss with colleagues. It's important to work hard but also work smart. Busting your ass off at work is hard work but not smart as you aren't investing into yourself with time as it's all dedicated to making your company better lol.

[mikemhg]

^There's nothing wrong with that, don't let those people influence you.

For some, work/life balance is paramount, and I agree with those people.

Either you want to live to work, or work to live, some fall into the former, and some the latter.

While you're traveling and enjoying life, having experiences that they'll never have, they'll have to look back in their elder years wondering what could've been, and all the things they inevitably missed out on.