History follow-up: Two boys died following horrific crash on Hwy 1 (verdict reached)

[Mud Hen]

electrical failure isn't likely as the headlights can be seen on in the pictures. also, if there was so much smoke to cause enough danger to warrant stopping in the middle of a busy highway, why didn't the vehicle erupt into flames?

there is no reason why the woman driving the van couldn't have pulled over to the shoulder, roadsense could have saved her kids.

hate to judge before all the facts are in but it seems the x5 driver wouldn't have had enough time to stop for a non-moving vehicle in front of him on wet pavement probably doing 100-105 km/h as most do on that stretch.

[nammerstar]

exactly! you're going pretty fast on the hwy and suddenly there's a car infront of you NOT MOVING, ON THE HWY, how can you expect that? Visibility, slippery road, could be a factor too.

Originally Posted by Arclight

electrical failure isn't likely as the headlights can be seen on in the pictures. also, if there was so much smoke to cause enough danger to warrant stopping in the middle of a busy highway, why didn't the vehicle erupt into flames?

there is no reason why the woman driving the van couldn't have pulled over to the shoulder, roadsense could have saved her kids.

hate to judge before all the facts are in but it seems the x5 driver wouldn't have had enough time to stop for a non-moving vehicle in front of him on wet pavement probably doing 100-105 km/h as most do on that stretch.

[impactX]

Originally Posted by Soundy

The emphasis is that he shouldn't have been there in the first place, and neither should the car behind him (which was also a single occupant).

Who wants to lay odds that the two other cars were racing, or at least toying with each other, and were both FLYING down the HOV... or as ericthehalfbee suggests, had JUST moved into that lane? Either way, they had to be going pretty fast to do that kind of damage, and were most certainly not paying attention to what was happening in front of them, but probably more to each other.

Food for thought: the emphasis could be that a van that isn't properly maintained shouldn't be on the road. If the Van isn't there in the first place, the incident wouldn't have happened.

Whatever the outcome, the kids paid the ultimate price. RIP.

[Eff-1]

Tragedy aside, the assigning blame on this accident is really quite simple, comes down to basic liability.

1. 99% of the time, vehicle that collides with another from the rear because it's not able to stop in time is going to be at fault.

2. The fact a vehicle is parked illegally and/or in an unsafe place is not relevant when assigning fault. The resposibility is on the other drivers to drive in a manner so they can avoid you safely and in time.

Doesn't matter where I park my car. I could park it facing sideways across the road on the other side of a blind corner. If you hit it, it's still your fault. That's how insurance works. If you disagree, then you'd have to take me to court to prove I deliberately tried to cause the collision.

Also, these two statements are not the same thing:

1. If you weren't driving illegally in the HOV lane, the accident may not have happened. TRUE

2. Because you were in the HOV lane illegally, you caused the accident. NOT TRUE.

Originally Posted by impactX

Food for thought: the emphasis could be that a van that isn't properly maintained shouldn't be on the road. If the Van isn't there in the first place, the incident wouldn't have happened.

Yeah but then you have to prove negligence. It's not easy to prove being negligent versus making a mistake.

[xyz123]

“The information from the public is helping us determine the timelines for the crash, how long the vehicle was in the HOV lane before the incident. We now know it was stopped long enough for other vehicles to have pulled around it, and what we need to know is why the BMW didn’t,” Thiessen said.

We can't really judge; but I just question, if all the cars knew about the van having some sort of problem in addition, that every car had time to pull around the minivan, how come the X5 didn't notice it?

R.I.P. to the two children

[anti_rice]

Originally Posted by azndude69

i agree - 99% of the time its the rear enders fault.

but ya, what IF the BMW had two drivers in it. and was driving in the middle lane, and then went into HOV lane cause the middle lane was too slow, and then hit the van.
all this talk about the the person being illegally in the HOV lane was the main cause would be non-sense.

i agree that the scenario you describe is probably what happened. but we cant say with certainty until we get more info.

No broken white line near the crash, meaning if the X5 was changing lanes, it's now changing lanes illegally.

[SumAznGuy]

Watching the 11 O'clock news, they showed who the driver of the X5 was. (non-asian) The news also mentioned some of the witnesses said the van also had their hazzard lights on. Last thing they said was criminal charges still might be laid against the 26 year old driver of the X5.

Watching the news clip, a few things i noticed. Roads were wet. The back gate/door of the mini van was really pushed into the vehicle. Damage seemed like it was square on the back of the van, ie X5 hit it pretty much square on the back.
It is possible that the X5 tried to swerve at the last minute which caused it to spin 90 degrees before the Echo hit the driver side door/fender.

Things i can say for sure. ICBC will find the X5 driver 100% at fault for the accident with the mini-van. Driver of the mini-van should have pulled the broken down vehicle to the side of the road. X5 driver and Echo driver shouldn't have been in the HOV lane. It was an unfortunate accident.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

Things i can say for sure. ICBC will find the X5 driver 100% at fault for the accident with the mini-van. Driver of the mini-van should have pulled the broken down vehicle to the side of the road. X5 driver and Echo driver shouldn't have been in the HOV lane. It was an unfortunate accident.

Only one problem with that: if the van lost power and died, the driver most likely COULDN'T pull it to the side of the road. Further, if the cab was filled with smoke as has been reported, visibility of the shoulder may have been hampered.

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by Soundy

Only one problem with that: if the van lost power and died, the driver most likely COULDN'T pull it to the side of the road. Further, if the cab was filled with smoke as has been reported, visibility of the shoulder may have been hampered.

Bullshit. Last time I blewup my motor on the highway, I was still able to pull the car off of the highway under the car's momentum.
Last time I ran out of gas in my car, I was able to pull to the side of the road under the car's momentum.

If the car's cabin filled with smoke, and I am sure it wasnt a smoke bomb type instant fill, she could have pulled the van onto the side of the road.
If she said she freaked and first instinct was to stop the van in case it was a fire, I can give her that. So far no one has comfirmed where the smoke came from, but if it was electrical, it shouldn't have filled up the inside of the van.
That being said, it would take a lot of smoke to fill the cabin of an 8 seater mini-van, and to make it so that she couldn't see the highway shoulder, someone should tell them not to hot box while driving.

[tough]

this is terrible

[alex.w *//]

its nearly impossible to stop fast driving 100km/h -> 0km/h on a straight wet road. it reminds me of when cops are doing speed traps in the middle of the highway and the guy in front just slams on his brakes because the cops is in the middle of the road

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

Bullshit. Last time I blewup my motor on the highway, I was still able to pull the car off of the highway under the car's momentum.
Last time I ran out of gas in my car, I was able to pull to the side of the road under the car's momentum.

You're also probably strong enough to overcome the lack of power steering, and didn't have a vanload of six other people distracting you.

[thumper]

reminded me so much of this crash from awhile back

[youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zGyUZlIGpUA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zGyUZlIGpUA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]

[ericthehalfbee]

Watched the police spokesman on the news last night. He seemed to be "careful" in his wording of what he said. Firstly about the other cars that missed the van and also about the X5 driver. He said "we've talked to the X5 driver and received some information but would like more". The way he said it was really weird like he's accusing the X5 driver of not fully cooperating, without actually saying it.

SumAznGuy: Clearly you know little about mechanics. There are a lot of reaons a breakdown could cause a vehicle to come to a stop and also make it difficult/impossible to steer. Example, the transmission suffers catastrophic failure and locks up. Van stops quickly on its own, and since the wheels are locked up you can't steer - ABS doesn't work when something else locks the wheels. THat's just one I could come up with, but there are lots of other possibilities as well.



After digging, I found out what happened. The other drivers that missed the van were Schumacher and Hamilton who were in town this weekend. They were driving new versions of upcoming sports cars from Ferrari and Maclaren. It was only their lightning quick reflexes and high capabilities of their cars that allowed them to avoid the van. THe poor driver in the X5, being a mere mortal and driving an "normal" vehicle had no chance whatsoever.

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by ericthehalfbee

SumAznGuy: Clearly you know little about mechanics. There are a lot of reaons a breakdown could cause a vehicle to come to a stop and also make it difficult/impossible to steer. Example, the transmission suffers catastrophic failure and locks up. Van stops quickly on its own, and since the wheels are locked up you can't steer - ABS doesn't work when something else locks the wheels. THat's just one I could come up with, but there are lots of other possibilities as well.

So what does a transmission failing have to do with this scenario? And even if the transmission failed, the wheels on the bus go round and round. Round and round.... You FAIL at mechanics and logic.

As for Soundy, you seem like a smart guy. Have you ever driven a car without power steering? I did. I had an 88 CRX for a fair bit of time. Anyone who has driven a car without powersteering knows that once the car is in motion, the steering becomes a lot lighter. Son in this case, even if the motor died on the mini-van, the driver can still steer the vehicle without much effort. On that note, try parallel parking a car without powersteering on race tires. Now that is difficult.

[Vansterdam]

dude that video is nuts!

[ericthehalfbee]

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

So what does a transmission failing have to do with this scenario? And even if the transmission failed, the wheels on the bus go round and round. Round and round.... You FAIL at mechanics and logic.

Hahahahaaahahahahaa

What if the transmission "locked up", which is what I originally posted. You FAIL at reading comprehension AND mechanics.

[Gachinto]

"The drivers of those vehicles, who were riding alone, were not seriously hurt, but they are facing charges for using the HOV lane while being the sole passenger of the car."
I LOL when I saw that~

Anyways ya, RIP!

[Gachinto]

Originally Posted by thumper

reminded me so much of this crash from awhile back

[youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zGyUZlIGpUA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zGyUZlIGpUA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]

NICE SAFE by the Corolla driver!
Let me buy him / her a drink!

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by ericthehalfbee

Hahahahaaahahahahaa

What if the transmission "locked up", which is what I originally posted. You FAIL at reading comprehension AND mechanics.

And have you ever had a transmission lock up on you? Do you know someone that has? How do YOU know that a broken transmission will lock up? How much about mechanics do YOU know?
So please tell me. How does a broken transmission lock the drive wheels?

Also, how does a broken tranny have anything to do with this accident?

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

As for Soundy, you seem like a smart guy.

Thanks. You don't.

Have you ever driven a car without power steering? I did. I had an 88 CRX for a fair bit of time.

A couple, actually... my first car, a 1980 GLC, and my last beater, a 1987 Accord. Driving MANUAL steering is very different than driving a vehicle that's LOST ITS POWER STEERING.

Anyone who has driven a car without powersteering knows that once the car is in motion, the steering becomes a lot lighter. Son in this case, even if the motor died on the mini-van, the driver can still steer the vehicle without much effort.

Have you ever driven a power-steering-equipped car that's lost its power steering? Turn off your engine while you're flying down the highway some day and let us know how that works out. Make sure you do it in a section of freeway with ruts, so it's even harder to steer.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Eff-1

Tragedy aside, the assigning blame on this accident is really quite simple, comes down to basic liability.

1. 99% of the time, vehicle that collides with another from the rear because it's not able to stop in time is going to be at fault.

2. The fact a vehicle is parked illegally and/or in an unsafe place is not relevant when assigning fault. The resposibility is on the other drivers to drive in a manner so they can avoid you safely and in time.

Doesn't matter where I park my car. I could park it facing sideways across the road on the other side of a blind corner. If you hit it, it's still your fault. That's how insurance works. If you disagree, then you'd have to take me to court to prove I deliberately tried to cause the collision.

Also, these two statements are not the same thing:

1. If you weren't driving illegally in the HOV lane, the accident may not have happened. TRUE

2. Because you were in the HOV lane illegally, you caused the accident. NOT TRUE.



Yeah but then you have to prove negligence. It's not easy to prove being negligent versus making a mistake.

Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner. It's amazing the amount of opinions contradicting otherwise. Kind of makes me glad they have a graduated licensing system.

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by Soundy

Thanks. You don't.

Ouch... Where's the love?

A couple, actually... my first car, a 1980 GLC, and my last beater, a 1987 Accord. Driving MANUAL steering is very different than driving a vehicle that's LOST ITS POWER STEERING.

Have you ever driven a power-steering-equipped car that's lost its power steering? Turn off your engine while you're flying down the highway some day and let us know how that works out. Make sure you do it in a section of freeway with ruts, so it's even harder to steer.

Did I not mention I blew up the motor on my car on the highway? Reading comprehension much?
Yes, cars without powersteer and cars with powersteering who lost the powersteering is different, marginally. Ask all the Civic owners who take off the powersteer belts on their cars for the extra HP.
Better yet, with the ignition off and the car parked, try turning the steering wheel. That is as tough as it is going to get. Once the car starts moving, the steering gets lighter, whether the car is powersteering equiped or not.
This is a fact.

[princesssi]

RIP > poor kids so young

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

Yes, cars without powersteer and cars with powersteering who lost the powersteering is different, marginally. Ask all the Civic owners who take off the powersteer belts on their cars for the extra HP.
Better yet, with the ignition off and the car parked, try turning the steering wheel. That is as tough as it is going to get. Once the car starts moving, the steering gets lighter, whether the car is powersteering equiped or not.
This is a fact.

Also a fact is that a FULLY-loaded minivan is going to be somewhat different than your Civic. Greater load, different steering geometry, entirely different steering design, means you can't readily compare the two. Some vehicles, it's nearly impossible to turn the wheel with the engine off.

Of course, they could have just got out and pushed the van off the road... I mean, it's easy to do that in your Civic, so it must be easy in a loaded minivan too, right?