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Old 12-02-2008, 08:11 PM   #1
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How to Survive the Coming US Dollar Collapse

Interesting article I read. Not really actual, so read it with a grain of salt. Interesting nevertheless.

-----------
Even though gold and commodities have taken a big hit because of a general liquidation in everything, there is one thing none of us should lose sight of, and that is what happens when the USD finally lets go.

Why the USD is presently rallying

Just because the USD happens to be rallying now (with weekly fluctuations) does not mean that its fate is not bleak. There are many reasons the USD is rallying right now. They include flight to cash in general during market liquidations in all areas, but also cash hoarding because businesses cannot roll over the short term credit they use to do payrolls and ongoing operations. Then we have the usual end of year cash surge for businesses and financial institutions. Then of course there is flight to the USD for safety, and then finally, other countries currencies are adjusting to the slowing world economy, and the once hot foreign markets are cooling and there is lots of money moving out of the ‘emerging' markets.

But, we are going to be facing two particular problems in 09 that none of us is really used to, that we really have never seen. The world is going to have a severe recession bordering on an economic depression. Essentially no one alive today knows what that is like. Only the oldest of us have lived through that experience.

But then, on top of that, at some point later the USD will finally collapse. This is not something way way out there in the future. This issue is becoming a near term threat.

What has held the USD up and why that's going to change

The primary reason the USD has held up so well in the last decades, in spite of ever worsening US trade and budget deficits that add to over $1 trillion a year combined, is that the US was an export economy's dream customer. Because the US was such a good customer to the world, they bought our US Treasury bonds, and lent trillions in other ways to the US consumer. As long as the US consumer could carry that process out, our trade partners could make bank on the US and USD.

However, once the US consumer is tapped out, and cannot effectively make a return on investment of our trade partners, the rationale for the continuation of the USD goes away. All that remains after that is a budget busted US Federal government. At that point, why would our trade partners continue to buy all the US treasury bonds and such, and debase their currencies, if the US cannot be such a good customer anymore? At that point, the USD will rapidly fall into a devaluation crisis.

None of us in the US has ever dealt with the twin threats coming our way in the next few years. The first is a real economic depression. The second will be the demise of the US dollar, or at the very least, its severe devaluation like 70% or more (at first).

I would like to point out that in the last great depression in the US in the 1930's, we did not have a combination of a currency crisis with the economic crisis. The USD, although it fell compared to gold, held up well. Deflation increased the value of anything called cash, including gold.

This time, the outcome will be different. This time, the US faces an economic depression AND a currency crisis soon after. How far off is this?

Well, first, we are already well into the beginning of the economic depression. The damage done to the world credit and financial markets has been stunning since August 07. Over $35 trillion of value has been lost in the world financial markets. That has spilled over into the real economy now, and we will start to see bigger and bigger layoff notices. Economic demand will decline and we won't see any mere one year recession, like all the pundits say ‘we foresee 5 quarters of economic decline in the US…'

This time we are talking on the scale of 5 years of economic decline and unemployment getting over 20%. The Great Depression lasted ten years, and the US had well over 25% unemployment. US economic production was halved!

The China situation

The rest of the world fared worse. And, we hear that China has this great economic growth, still on the order of 8% a year, a number any nation would kill for. But, China needs to ADD 15 million jobs a year merely to keep up with population growth, having 1.3 billion people!

So, this 8% growth in China is mandatory, not merely a luxury since China still has 800 million peasants in the rural areas all clamoring to move to the cities for better pay. Even at the lowest levels, Chinese city pay is three times the basic rural income which is starvation wages.

And then consider that there are 130 million undocumented Chinese who flocked to the cities for work (not residents of the city) who have nowhere to go now that their export dependent economy is slowing rapidly. The recipe here is for a revolution in China if they cannot keep 800 plus million people working… and this is just beginning to happen. And this issue is widely known to scare the hell out of the Chinese government.

But, to avoid a revolution, they MUST have 8% economic growth indefinitely? That is not going to happen. The party is about over in China.

The point here of emphasizing China's demographics is that, without big exports to the West, they cannot sustain stability economically or politically. They are the poster child to what happens when the export economies slow drastically when the US export markets slow significantly.

Not going to stop economic contraction this time

But, getting back to the issue of economic depression and the USD. The whole point here is that the world economic engine is grinding to a halt and there is no way to stop it. The US Fed and other central banks have found out they cannot reflate the world economies this time, like they did after 2001 and 911 and the Tech bubble. This time reflation efforts are failing. Things are slowing down too fast this time, and that is combined with the imploding credit markets in every nation of the world.

Without credit, the world economies contract badly. Everything is credit based. Businesses need it to merely do daily operations, and people need it for purchases. The only other way is to have cash and pay as you go. The world economy is not structured to operate that way (things don't have to be credit based but our world economy is inextricably addicted to it, and credit collapse equates to a world economic depression if the credit does not come back right soon).

And the credit is NOT coming back. Sure, we hear that Libor rates (interbank borrowing rates that is the lifeblood of financial institutions for short term funding needs) have improved. But, these lenders are not lending it out, they are merely covering their own needs and hoarding cash, just like businesses are being forced to since the short term credit markets are still frozen, and there is little chance of that improving for a good while.

So what does all this mean for the USD?

Now, what all this means for the USD is that, as the world loses its economic engine and goes into an economic depression, the highly abused USD will lose its reason to stay strong.

At some point all the US trade partners of the world will find the US is abusing the currency too much. With all the bailouts now, that starts to become more certain. Then, as an economic depression makes its way, the US fiscal deficits, which are already $1 trillion a year, will cause flight from the USD. At some point, our trade partners will simply stop buying the US Treasury notes/bills. This is going to happen, friends.

Then, the USD goes to hell fast. Now when is this? Well, a few years ago I wrote several articles which stated that, when the US consumer reached a point of not being able to give our trade partners a return on their massive subsidies to the US government and buy our bonds, then the USD game is over.

The only reason the USD has managed to avoid a huge devaluation, and even a currency crisis, is because since 1945 after WW2 ended, every time the US economy contracted the US was able to grow out of it. Or, in many cases the US was able to lower interest rates (meaning borrow out of it) and stimulate the economy.

Now, that stimulation process is broken, to say the least. Lower interest rates are not working this time. This time, we are not going to stimulate out of an economic depression. This time we get a depression. Why?

Because, we have two irresolvable problems to avoid a depression this time. This time, we are in the same situation generally as what happened in 1929, and then the ensuing world deflation.

The Two insoluble problems that will lead to a depression and ultimately the final USD collapse

Deleveraging cannot be stopped, there is too much
The USD is only supported by a healthy world economy and is subsidized
The world is deleveraging in totality and we have a breaking world finance bubble. I estimate that way over $1000 trillion of world financial markets alone are deleveraging. That number is calculated by adding up all the leverage out there, and the biggest one is the derivatives of all types that are really only big HUGE leveraged bets. They are nothing more than that. The BIS states that world derivatives alone are over $1 quadrillion worth – that's 1000 trillion.
Even if central banks move heaven and earth with their now $7 trillion of infusions to every market imaginable now, that's a drop in the bucket compared to what's out there. So, the deleveraging will continue relentlessly this time.

Why did that happen? Quite simply, the Western consumers got tapped out. They borrowed more than they can sustain a return on. So, for example, we see the housing bubble collapse and then all the mortgage bonds collapse, and then all the banks collapse – get the idea? Then all the credit disappears everywhere and we get an assured economic depression. And that will lead to 20% unemployment or worse in the entire world – mark my words.

The overall picture is that the world economic/credit bubble since 1945 has just burst before our eyes since August 07. That is one huge bubble.

And, as they say, for every Ying there is a corresponding Yang, or more simply, what goes up must come down. And it's coming down hard. And… we haven't seen nothing yet either. The down has a long way to go; we are merely in the first stages. And, boy is the world already suffering.

So then, follow along here, the next victim of this emerging depression will be the USD. As I said, the only thing keeping the USD afloat with the massive fiscal deficits has been an ever spending US consumer who bought trillions of dollars worth of exports. When they get tapped out there is no reason for our trade partners to keep that up is there? The USD subsidies (primarily our trade partners buying US bonds of all types) will end this time around (this economic cycle).

How can we get out of this mess?

Well, first I have to say I don't think we will avoid a long, possibly ten years, depression. But there are some ways it might be avoided.

First, if the US abrogated the $60 trillion of promises to Social Security and Medicare, maybe that would save the USD. But that won't happen. Probably, what the US will do is just pay it all, but with worthless dollars.

The second thing that might get the world out of this impending economic depression and a collapse of the USD later would be to forgive all debts. Possibly that would wipe out the USD too anyway. But that would set the stage for a huge world economic recovery.

The trouble with debt forgiveness is it never seems to happen. Believe me, I am not talking hogwash about debt forgiveness. The Bible, for example, talks about how every 7 years and every 70 years there is to be total debt forgiveness. It's called the Jubilee. The idea is a legitimate concept that can work and has worked.

You don't think that's viable? Well it can work because all that happens is that the lenders who offer credit have to factor in either payment in full or forgiveness over a 7 year period. This can be done and would actually result in the biggest sustained world economic boom ever imagined.
The thing that causes world economic depressions are debt and financial bubbles. The two go together.

But, getting back to the fate of the USD. The problem is, the lenders won't forgive debt or make it amortize in a short time. They insist on ever bigger debts. They do things like making the bankruptcy laws far more stringent (recently done in the US). And thus, they guarantee that the world consumers ultimately will get tapped out (just a matter of time) and then a world bubble collapse and economic depression.

The interesting thing that happens is that there is ultimately dept repudiation in depressions anyway. Which leads us to the USD's fate in coming years.

I don't think we will have to wait for 30 years to see Social Security and Medicare to bankrupt the US. What will happen sooner is that, as the US enters economic depression this time , the return on investment for our trade partners will disappear. The US won't keep our trade parnters' hundreds of millions employed, and they will then stop buying US Treasury bonds. And then the USD devalues 70% in a year. Maybe going to zero soon after that. The US is then bankrupted.

When can this happen? Possibly mid way into the next US economic depression (not recession). And, since I think we are now entering the beginning of a US depression, then if it lasts ten years, that means we have about 4 years to go for the USD to finally give up the ghost.

Yes, I mean that. We have maybe 4 years left, maybe even only 2 years for the USD to remain anything at all.

What can you do about all this?

Well, aside from dealing with the certain political and social chaos and those dangers when the USD collapses, you need to move your money into a combination of other currencies and also into paid off real things. It's conceivable that some stocks in real things like mines would do well too. But stocks and financial products in general, like annuities, will be destroyed in value because, in an economic depression, companies either go out of business or shrink.

And in a currency crisis (USD) that Social Security check, that bank CD, that Treasury bond, that insurance annuity becomes worthless. Sorry, but that is the reality.

So, to escape losing all your income and losing all your wealth in a currency crisis, you have to have money in other currencies, and also in paid off real things that are still there after the currency is destroyed. Obviously, gold and precious metals figure in here. The falling prices right now are quite beside the point. What really matters is what happens in the next 4 or so years to the USD. That's the BIG issue.

The reason why gold and such are dropping now is because of the general financial and commodity deleveraging. When that bottoms, then gold will still be there. The only thing is, when this world deleveraging bottoms, I don't think much else will still be there. The problem is how to survive it.

By Christopher Laird
PrudentSquirrel.com

Copyright © 2008 Christopher Laird
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article7171.html
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Old 12-02-2008, 10:50 PM   #2
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USD will not fail,

especially after the Chinese Gov't decided to back it by increasing US holdings instead of going to Euro.

The Euro countries are pissed right now, with France talking to Dalai, and Germany cutting off the funding to China.

At worst USD will deflate
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Old 12-03-2008, 12:10 AM   #3
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There was some rumours that the US sold $x billion amero-dollars to China in anticipation of it's bankruptcy. Mind you, these rumours are certainly realistic in that creating a north american union would help sustain the US economy.

Very good read btw but I doubt nations leaders would let the US go bankrupt. There's no such thing as nationalism anymore, after the world war and years of trading, I think every big nation realizes they need each other.

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Old 12-03-2008, 09:01 AM   #4
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There was some rumours that the US sold $x billion amero-dollars to China in anticipation of it's bankruptcy. Mind you, these rumours are certainly realistic in that creating a north american union would help sustain the US economy.

Very good read btw but I doubt nations leaders would let the US go bankrupt. There's no such thing as nationalism anymore, after the world war and years of trading, I think every big nation realizes they need each other.
Oh you will be surprised as to how much nationalism there is in the Euro zone against NA.
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Old 12-03-2008, 10:29 AM   #5
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I have to disagree with wouwou. Inflationary forces will have to catch up within a year against the USD.

China's latest bailout specifically limits the effects to domestic development and investment in its OWN infrastructures. Sure there are the odd US companies with operations in China and profiting off that... but there are plenty more that are far more susceptible when it comes to a US slowdown.

The amount of bailout packages is staggering - not in dollar figures but in terms of management and even keeping track - Henry Paulson and Helicopter Ben would have trouble listing all the bailouts so far. $25 billion here, $800 there, and few more next week?

Debt level is approaching War-Time levels at $2 trillion+ and this is the kind of debt level that will soon take generations to pay off. Commodities knows no borders - currency does - I would take the bet on oil/gold/copper over USD$ any day.

On a slightly separate note : Canadian Gov is criticized as one of the only G20 not providing cash bailout stimulus packages - but why waste your magic bullet when US is throwing money at the problem... you know at 1:1.3+ exchange more business will trickle over too!

Time to get a government gig or become a daytrader - job loss figures will climb even more from here. An interesting anecdote - how many of your university grad friends this year has a job so far? I personally know of quite a few that can't find anything meaningful.
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Old 12-03-2008, 11:01 AM   #6
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Time to get a government gig or become a daytrader - job loss figures will climb even more from here. An interesting anecdote - how many of your university grad friends this year has a job so far? I personally know of quite a few that can't find anything meaningful.
True. You forgot the health care field. =P But yeah sucks for everyone else.
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Old 12-03-2008, 11:36 AM   #7
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I have to disagree with wouwou. Inflationary forces will have to catch up within a year against the USD.

China's latest bailout specifically limits the effects to domestic development and investment in its OWN infrastructures. Sure there are the odd US companies with operations in China and profiting off that... but there are plenty more that are far more susceptible when it comes to a US slowdown.

The amount of bailout packages is staggering - not in dollar figures but in terms of management and even keeping track - Henry Paulson and Helicopter Ben would have trouble listing all the bailouts so far. $25 billion here, $800 there, and few more next week?

Debt level is approaching War-Time levels at $2 trillion+ and this is the kind of debt level that will soon take generations to pay off. Commodities knows no borders - currency does - I would take the bet on oil/gold/copper over USD$ any day.

On a slightly separate note : Canadian Gov is criticized as one of the only G20 not providing cash bailout stimulus packages - but why waste your magic bullet when US is throwing money at the problem... you know at 1:1.3+ exchange more business will trickle over too!

Time to get a government gig or become a daytrader - job loss figures will climb even more from here. An interesting anecdote - how many of your university grad friends this year has a job so far? I personally know of quite a few that can't find anything meaningful.
I apologize for not making my post more clearly, getting back from a holiday with time lag and no coffee tends to do that.

There is no doubt that inflation will hit the States in 09 big time. In fact, I have built a strong positioni in gold and ABX.TO over the last week with a time horizon for 3-6 months, at the mean time pulling out GGs just to stay out of any US holdings. I expect TSX to rebound sharply in the early 09s, especialyl since there are so many freaking fiat monty floating around. USD is not going to hold its current position and there is not a doubt in my mind.

What I disagreed in the article is that the USD will flat out FAIL, or depreciate 70% in a short period of time because "American imports will be gone", that is just way too vague and simply non realistic in the real world. It's like saying the American will start a war against China just to get out of debt, it is always possible, but not probably.

For one, China will NOT let the USD fall, despite all those cat fights between the States and China. This is made clear when the Chinese Gov't decided to greatly increase the US bond holdings a few months ago, instead of going for gold and/or Euro bonds, which was clearly a less risky investment choice, considering the Chinese Gov't has considerably low level of those holdings and diversification is the way to go.

There has been fights between the States and EU since 2002, when Euro was introduced as the unified currency for the EU zone, and a contender for the USD as the dominant currency in the World. The Chinese choice clearly indicated that it prefer USD over Euro, and that is why you see France meeting Dalai after the Chinese USD backing, after announcing it wont prior to that, as well as Germany cutting off any Chinese support at the same time.

As for the Canadian policy on no stimulus package right now, I agree with the Harper Gov't at this point as Canadian econ is not even close to the bad shape the States is in to need government funding right now, and any stimulus package given out today will be practically pointless, only increasing national debt and likely inflation.

For the Chinese Stimulus package, personally I consider it $0 in value. Sure infrastructure will get a boost, but it will NOT replace the export that China is losing right now. At the mean time real estate market is cooling off rapidly, leading to a slow down in demands for building materials such as steel and labour, which was driving force behind the Chinese boom for the past 5 years. The Chinese solution? Lower the exchange rate for the RMB against USD to boost export, which they are doing it for the past 2 days.

On a side note, there are Chinese tourists doing what the Japanese did 20 years ago, coming over to the States and buying up foreclosures at cheap. It will be funny if the next Sex and the City movie has a scene of Carrie renting a condo from a Chinese landlord.

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Old 12-03-2008, 03:06 PM   #8
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Man, I really love this forum. I think it's the best forum on RS.net to actually learn things and discuss things without the childish behaviour.

Anyways, I have to agree with some points Wouwou has stated. The RMB has seen a sharp depreciation in the past 5 months which the chinese government is trying to do to fuel exports. With the cut in interest rates, China is trying their best to maintain growth. If the USD collapse, China will get hurt more than profit thus they don't want to see that.

Time will only tell I guess, I do predict a sharp decline in the USD for the late 09 though. Sound has to catch up to the light sooner or later
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Old 12-05-2008, 12:54 PM   #9
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Umm... the stimulus package is not even out yet and you are all already saying the USD will collapse..

I will hold my comment on USD until january 12th.. I am really interested to see what Obama administration is bringing to the table. I wouldnt necessarily say that USD will deflate, simply because the speculations of rate cut to 0% is almost imminent at this point and that should really offset the deflation pressure.

Canadian econ is very very very different from the one in the US. US Econ is built on credit, Canadian is built on natural resources and hence, I dont see why/how CDN would ever be in as bad an economy as US is in now.
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Old 12-17-2008, 08:11 PM   #10
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low commodity prices and high canadian dollar would be detrimental to the cdn economy?
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Old 12-18-2008, 01:17 PM   #11
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the price of gold is hovering around 850$ and doesnt seem to be as high as it should be. it looks like its being manipulated to stay low but the demand for bullion is increasing with requests and wait lists of 3-4 weeks. 1oz gold maple leaves are selling around $1,110 right now and thats with a 3-4 week wait.
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Old 12-18-2008, 03:53 PM   #12
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low commodity prices and high canadian dollar would be detrimental to the cdn economy?
low commodity price and high canadian dollar wont happen at the same time, period
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Old 12-18-2008, 07:05 PM   #13
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low commodity price and high canadian dollar wont happen at the same time, period
Weak commodity prices and and even weaker USD would make the CDN higher with low commodity prices. But that is only relative to the USD.
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Old 12-18-2008, 08:57 PM   #14
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Weak commodity prices and and even weaker USD would make the CDN higher with low commodity prices. But that is only relative to the USD.
exactly, and even against USD it is only relatively high instead of that powerful high last year

I was so happy doing shopping in HK last Christmas, it's like 45% off
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Old 12-18-2008, 11:07 PM   #15
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call me when the USD fall again.... good night!
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Old 01-13-2009, 06:25 PM   #16
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move to another country lol come back if things look up again. Now is the best time to invest!
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Old 01-16-2009, 12:44 AM   #17
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ummm okay a few points

those saying USD cant collapse because china is backing it -- they are also heding their bit with gold purchases. soooo....

those who said weak commodity prices = high CAD? how??? CAD economy does well with high commodity prices!

and lastly, US is in deflation now, as odd as that sounds. might catch up, probably will, but not for 1-2 years... and even then, other countries are in the same boat (low ir), so it's all relative.
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:09 AM   #18
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^sadly the Chinese is purchasing gold at a way too slow pace.

I wish they buy more to pump up the prices.

On another note, 2 things will happen in the very near future in the States. we will either see a major deflation, or hyper inflation in order to solve this financial crisis.

The problem with deflation is, it is visiable, meaning EVERYONE can see their wealth dropping, price going down with savings and stocks, and Gov't dont like it when their citizens become grumpy from this.

On the other hand, hyper inflation is less visiable.

Since mid 08, the Fed has been gradually pumping liquidity into the system in order to prevent the crash from happening, at the mean time still trying to keep down the gold price by continue to support the naked shorts on gold. However, recently I have seem 3 times where the spot price for gold is higher than its future. This is very odd considering that gold is a contango commodity, and as a result future prices should always be higher than spot from transportation and upkeep, etc.

With spot > future, it shows a demand for gold RIGHT NOW instead from a month. what this means is up for investors to decide.
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Old 01-16-2009, 11:02 PM   #19
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Bush admin just put into effect a rule that, as long as a Chinese company is pre approved, it will be able to purchase high tech products without evaluation, signed on Jan 13th.

Which the US tried VERY HARD to prevent all these years.
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Old 01-18-2009, 02:00 AM   #20
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I think the USD will collapse...but i read an article before where they compared to the US spendings before to today's bailout packages.

They compared to the total spending during WWII, Vietnam War, etc. and calc. in today's value. The stimulus package today isn't that much larger in value to the ones before.

So is the USD going to fall as hard as we expect is still an uncertainty.
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Old 01-19-2009, 08:27 AM   #21
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I dont know about you guys.

I am still waiting until Mid Feb (congress said thats about the time when they are ready to submit to the obama for a "significant" stimulas package that includes tax cuts for middle-classes (horray!), construction jobs/roads maintainence, etc, and stimulas rebates for creating jobs, etc).

Also, FYI, USD have been going fairly strong as of last night. (I am from taiwan, so I am using NT as the measure, since I also do a lot of IM/EX and care more about NT/USD exchange). it is currently at about 1 to 33.52!!! and it was about 1 to 32.20 just a couple months ago!!

Econ is harsh as it is...
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Old 01-19-2009, 08:45 AM   #22
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^imo the USD is strong because 1, corps hoarding cash for liquidity because the cheapasses in the banks are not providing credit. 2, the cheapasses in the banks are hoarding cash because they are cheap.

I can think of a few more, but most of them tends to be superficial, not fundamental supports for the USD.
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Old 01-19-2009, 09:08 AM   #23
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I can think of a few more, but most of them tends to be superficial, not fundamental supports for the USD.
Investors seeking "safe haven" in US bonds thus allowing the USD to appreciate.
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Old 01-19-2009, 10:01 AM   #24
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^by investors you meant the ones that still have half of their savings
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Old 01-23-2009, 01:53 PM   #25
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gold above 200 day average as of yesterday, and Obama just called out China as a currency manipulator.

Watch for it now
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