Do you belive in god?

[Ferra]

Originally Posted by Jason00S2000

You came from nothing, became something, will goto nothing, and you'll be back again as something, somewhere, maybe even as a single drop of rain...

But you have a mind here.... you have your thought and there is this sense of self being beyond your body.
Even if you end up going to Hell..."YOU" are you still there, your conscious still exist.
Believing we are nothing more the just molecules and quantifiable energy means there will be NOTHING after life.

Try imagining you died tomorrow...instead of your mind and conscious leaving your body, they are just completely gone...and your conscious just become eternal complete emptiness.


I don't have any religion, and I believe most of the religions here today are nothing more than hoax, stupidity, or tools for control that we inherited from the past.

I don't hold any belief or disbelief on whether a higher being exist, and whether or not our mind & conscious extend beyond our body...
tho i sure HOPE there is indeed a higher being out there, and our mind exist beyond our body...but then I won't believe in this just because some wacko tells me some men from thousands years ago wrote a book that contain the answer to these message.

[Jason00S2000]

Originally Posted by Ferra

But you have a mind here.... you have your thought and there is this sense of self being beyond your body.
Even if you end up going to Hell..."YOU" are you still there, your conscious still exist.
Believing we are nothing more the just molecules and quantifiable energy means there will be NOTHING after life.

Try imagining you died tomorrow...instead of your mind and conscious leaving your body, they are just completely gone...and your conscious just become eternal complete emptiness.


I don't have any religion, and I believe most of the religions here today are nothing more than hoax, stupidity, or tools for control that we inherited from the past.

I don't hold any belief or disbelief on whether a higher being exist, and whether or not our mind & conscious extend beyond our body...
tho i sure HOPE there is indeed a higher being out there, and our mind exist beyond our body...but then I won't believe in this just because some wacko tells me some men from thousands years ago wrote a book that contain the answer to these message.

Our minds and thought processes are evolving still I believe, if you want to read some utterly mind-blowingly fascinating shit, I highly suggest you check out these two books:


Fabric of the Cosmos by Brian Greene (on the physical world)

Origin of consciousness in the breakdown of the bicameral mind - Julian Jaynes

http://www.amazon.com/Origin-Conscio.../dp/0618057072

Read the first two reviews for a very good idea of what subjects you'll find in the book. It is very, very interesting and I'm only halfway done!

[Jason00S2000]

Originally Posted by Ferra

But you have a mind here.... you have your thought and there is this sense of self being beyond your body.
Even if you end up going to Hell..."YOU" are you still there, your conscious still exist.
Believing we are nothing more the just molecules and quantifiable energy means there will be NOTHING after life.

Try imagining you died tomorrow...instead of your mind and conscious leaving your body, they are just completely gone...and your conscious just become eternal complete emptiness.


I don't have any religion, and I believe most of the religions here today are nothing more than hoax, stupidity, or tools for control that we inherited from the past.

I don't hold any belief or disbelief on whether a higher being exist, and whether or not our mind & conscious extend beyond our body...
tho i sure HOPE there is indeed a higher being out there, and our mind exist beyond our body...but then I won't believe in this just because some wacko tells me some men from thousands years ago wrote a book that contain the answer to these message.

Yes, but what is consciousness?


I mean, the "me" as I know it, just takes in information in through it's senses, processes it, and then acts on the desires and needs of my physical body. In a nutshell. When I'm dead, what would be my purpose? What would drive me? Is curiousity about the universe enough to keep some form of "me" floating around? How can I "see" the universe if I have no eyes?

Or will I just feel it?

Bill Hicks said one of my favorite quotes:

"Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one conciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves."

[+Kardboard+]

Originally Posted by Noir

IMO, I've found out that following religion and following God can be 2 entirely different things. People can follow God without following religion, but I don't think a lot of people understand that.

QFT

Religion may be divinely inspired, may not be. Regardless, it is ultimately an institution set up by (flawed) man.

[The7even]

Better question:


Does anyone think a divine being thinks you are a bad person for having sex outside of marriage?

I don't really like that "law" but nevertheless it is a good idea.
If we didn't have every idiot reproducing , our society would be much different... for the better, too.

I doubt God thinks you're a bad person due to sex.. rather it says not to do it.

If a "Supreme being" created the Human race by themselves, with out sex, why would he put restrictions on what that race can do for recreating?

My english sucks, but meh.

Why? Because if we didn't have some sort of guidance, we would eventually stray from that which is good for us.

When you have children, you have to place restrictions on what they see, do and etc.

It is kind of like that.

religion is actually much like science. we're all just looking for explanations
quite possibly, one day, science and religion will intertwine. and we will realize that amongst the great debate, we were looking at the same thing

We are. Trust me. Science will eventually come to that conclusion.

You came from nothing, became something, will goto nothing, and you'll be back again as something, somewhere, maybe even as a single drop of rain...

I don't know about reincarnation but I can tell you that if you believe that something or someone can come into existence from nothingness, you're delusional and you're going against science, too.

[welfare]

Originally Posted by Jason00S2000

You came from nothing, became something, will goto nothing

there is absolutely nothing in the universe that comes from nothing. even when we think there is nothing, there is always something. you know this.
but where did that singular atom come from?

and you'll be back again as something, somewhere, maybe even as a single drop of rain...

so you believe in reincarnation? funny, as the concept of the goings on beyond death is probably the single most unknown factor of humankind, yet you'll dismiss religion as complete fallacy?

Originally Posted by Jason00S2000

Bill Hicks said one of my favorite quotes:

"Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one conciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves."

this is a very interesting quote. i believe it charters along the concept of what i was saying about reality only being as such because we perceive it that way. that is being proven as fact as we speak. if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound? it's incredible, really. science bordering spirituality
i will definitely be checking out those books that you'd mentioned

[Sid Vicious]

Originally Posted by welfare

there is absolutely nothing in the universe that comes from nothing. even when we think there is nothing, there is always something. you know this.
but where did that singular atom come from?

Where did god come from?
That directly contradicts your argument...you say their is absolutely nothing in that universe that comes from nothing, yet you believe in god - who for all intents and purposes, comes from nothing.

[welfare]

Originally Posted by HB20

Where did god come from?
That directly contradicts your argument...you say their is absolutely nothing in that universe that comes from nothing, yet you believe in god - who for all intents and purposes, comes from nothing.

when did i say i believed in god? the closest i ever said to that was that there is no definitive answer to what god actually is, therefore i can not dismiss it.
my post remains sustained
maybe god is that first atom from which it was all born. i don't know, really.
but that sounds an awful lot like religion mingled with science to me
i think that both atheists and religious followers would be pleased with that statement

[unreal_civic]

i find all this spirituality stuff amazinly interesting. sometimes i cant wait to see what actaually happens when you die. what if there is actually nothing? and every piece of existance you had just vanishes when you die? and your mind jus goes into a void. and what if there is heaven? how is it like? is it like a city for each god? the bigger citys representing the number of people in each religion? do we have forever happyiness what if you ran into problems? are there even problems? and how is hell like? wow. either way. nobody can be certian all this exists, they can brainwash you with every little reasoning possible to make your mind belive that is certainly exist but for me, stuff like this i need to see and experience it to belive it. its be nice if the gods came down one day when we are still alive to prove themself if they are really trying to "save" as much of us as possible. i love my life too much to follow a set of rules untill i know im giving it up for something more.

[welfare]

well sorry, pal, but you're wrong. and by the time you realize it you'll already be condemned to eternity in hell. hope your sins were worth it
take care now

[MG1]

Originally Posted by Jason00S2000

You came from nothing, became something, will goto nothing, and you'll be back again as something, somewhere, maybe even as a single drop of rain...

I am the result of my mother and father and their parents. They live in me. When I die, part of me continues on in my children - my experiences, stuff I learned from my parents and relatives, etc. Hopefully, my children or my grandchildren and their children will continue to strive to make a difference - somehow. That's all I can hope for if there is nothing else after death. So, I came from something.........

Single drop of rain...... that is profound. All our bodies will become part of the earth again. Thanks partly to RS, I now give blood. A part of me, however insignificant, helps someone continue to live. The time I helped a person stranded on the road on a dark miserable night may lead to that person not being run over by a vehicle. Who knows? I would hope that I make a positive difference in people's lives while walking this earth. I do not need a god to tell me it's the right thing to do. Others might. Others may need a god to save them from their sins. In the end, we all die. When a sinner lays dying in a pool of blood, what would he feel and see? What would he remember as his life flashes before his eyes? The lives he has destroyed. The pain and suffering he has caused? Would his god come to him the same way as to a person who has lived a good productive life?

God, is supposed to be perfect, yet children are born deformed and suffering in pain. Infants die. What god would allow this suffering of the innocent? It's been asked many times before and the answer is usually something like, it's a test.

I am told that if you do not believe in this god, you will die and burn in hell. If you don't know about this god and you are ignorant of his existence, you will die and go to hell. It is up to the believers of this god to spread the word and save these savages from eternal damnation.

I wish I knew more about this stuff, but I don't know where to begin. A lot of it sounds wrong. A god that demands to be worshiped? Demands that believers do not stray from........ I just don't get it.

A colleague of mine, years ago told me he loved me (in a non homosexual way). He told me he was concerned about me because I was not a believer. He felt it his duty to save me from eternal damnation. He told me that god loved me, but then told me to fear god. I don't get it. Another good friend of mine used to believe in god, but when it was discovered he was gay, he was cast away and called a heathen. The church members tried to beat the gay out of him. I don't get it. God should love all living things. Afterall, he created them, yes?

Like I said before, if people want to believe in a god, more power to them. It's no skin off my back.

Who knows? When I die, I might see god in all its glory. Then again, I may be visited by the devil disguised as a sultry Asian celebrity.

[observer]

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, the wise as false, the ruler as useful.

[observer]

Originally Posted by Jason00S2000

God in his many forms are all hallucinations, clever fairy tales.

God is just something people made up. These is no god, not one we know about, at least.

Religion is a system of control. This is a fact.

I absolutely agree, and it is the most powerful kind of control.

Men never do evil things so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.

[trip]

IMO religon is a form of control. With that being said, you do not have to be religious to be spiritual. The fundamentals of religons are generally the same but to condem these people because of their beliefs is dumb. What happened to love, oneness, higher understanding of self?.

Scenerio, I found out recently my friend became christian. I asked him, so does that mean you and your god are condemning me to hell because I am not christian but I am spiritual?. How about your parents?. They are going to hell now too because they don't follow your religion.

Buddy had nothing to say.

[+Kardboard+]

Originally Posted by trip

IMO religon is a form of control. With that being said, you do not have to be religious to be spiritual. The fundamentals of religons are generally the same but to condem these people because of their beliefs is dumb. What happened to love, oneness, higher understanding of self?.

Scenerio, I found out recently my friend became christian. I asked him, so does that mean you and your god are condemning me to hell because I am not christian but I am spiritual?. How about your parents?. They are going to hell now too because they don't follow your religion.

Buddy had nothing to say.

lol he's a newbie, cut him some slack.

I hope people don't think like your example, but we all know many do. Tunnel vision religion, running with one concept and never challenging it, never delving deeper into "their" faith to see if that idea is right or not. I hope your friend will have an answer eventually, though.

[trip]

Originally Posted by +Kardboard+

lol he's a newbie, cut him some slack.

I hope people don't think like your example, but we all know many do. Tunnel vision religion, running with one concept and never challenging it, never delving deeper into "their" faith to see if that idea is right or not. I hope your friend will have an answer eventually, though.

actually, i believe his response was "i hope they go to heaven".


Any God that demands worship by threatening followers with death or damnation is an egomaniac.

[+Kardboard+]

That's depends what you mean by "god." I mean, are we able to judge a god? Do we have the right? Some would think not. If we can call a god an egomaniac, doesn't that mean we have authority of opinion, and thus, one can argue we are then superior to this god? It comes down to finding out what this god is, then in the end you arrive at whatever point of view that you arrive at with or without "divine influence."

[trip]

i think we are all gods, here to co-create, grow and become god-like but until we are all able to be on the same wave link and can experience oneness. we are all stuck here in "hell" because this planet is like a prison, we have to make our way out.

we're all here to learn and experience certain things in this and other incarnations.

[ericthehalfbee]

Why do people always bring up "religion" when discussing "god"?

Rules and laws made up by man have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not there is some sort of "god" or "supreme being".

It's a very weak argument to point out flaws in some version of a church/religion and then conclude that "god" doesn't exist based on those flaws.


We should start a new thread, and the people who can't see or understand the difference can stay out. Then we might have an interesting discussion from both sides.

[Ferra]

Originally Posted by Jason00S2000

Our minds and thought processes are evolving still I believe, if you want to read some utterly mind-blowingly fascinating shit, I highly suggest you check out these two books:


Fabric of the Cosmos by Brian Greene (on the physical world)

Origin of consciousness in the breakdown of the bicameral mind - Julian Jaynes

http://www.amazon.com/Origin-Conscio.../dp/0618057072

Read the first two reviews for a very good idea of what subjects you'll find in the book. It is very, very interesting and I'm only halfway done!

Fabric of Cosmos was on my next-to-read list.
I did read the elegant universe also by Brian Greene, mostly about string theory parallel universe and multi-dimension, love the book!

One thing I believe support the idea that we are more than just molecules and atoms is that, life cannot be created with non-living matter.
We can only produce life in the presence of existing life, but we cannot create life without life being there in the first place (yet?)...i think this goes to show that maybe there is more to life than just the atoms and quarks and a bunch of chemical reaction

[MG1]

I posted this a few years back. I think the devil is behind the idea of religion. After ruling earth for tens of thousands of years, he's getting tired of messing around with us lowly humans on a daily basis, so he puts out a challenge to all the other devil wannabe's. "At the end of 10, 000 years, he who convinces the most humans to follow you blindly will inherit my powers and rule earth for eternity." So they go out and create all kinds of schemes to try and convince stupid humans to follow them.

BTW, any devil worshippers out there? He could be god. LOL.

[Jason00S2000]

Originally Posted by ericthehalfbee

Why do people always bring up "religion" when discussing "god"?

Rules and laws made up by man have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not there is some sort of "god" or "supreme being".

It's a very weak argument to point out flaws in some version of a church/religion and then conclude that "god" doesn't exist based on those flaws.


We should start a new thread, and the people who can't see or understand the difference can stay out. Then we might have an interesting discussion from both sides.

Well, I like the idea of a conscious universe, and everything inside of it is here to observe itself. Like I'm here to observe the unit named Jason, and I can influence it's actions but I'm not fully in control. I am only in control as much as the chemical vessel will allow. Get it?


I try to not hurt any other living things, I'll put spiders outside and try to avoid eating meat. Unfortunately, I know this world is full of a ridiculous amount of suffering.

Nothing will fix this suffering, and it has spiraled out of control since the beginning, and it will only get worse before it gets better. In a lot of ways, I am hoping there is a massive nuclear war that wipes the slate clean. Maybe then people will learn that suffering anywhere on earth hurts us all.


Then again, it is very nice to go for a walk in QE park on a sunny day.

[Jason00S2000]

Originally Posted by 89blkcivic

I posted this a few years back. I think the devil is behind the idea of religion. After ruling earth for tens of thousands of years, he's getting tired of messing around with us lowly humans on a daily basis, so he puts out a challenge to all the other devil wannabe's. "At the end of 10, 000 years, he who convinces the most humans to follow you blindly will inherit my powers and rule earth for eternity." So they go out and create all kinds of schemes to try and convince stupid humans to follow them.

BTW, any devil worshippers out there? He could be god. LOL.

Makes perfect sense, create "teams" divide humans up, and watch them war with each other.

[MG1]

Originally Posted by Jason00S2000

Makes perfect sense, create "teams" divide humans up, and watch them war with each other.

Yep, we're just pawns in a big war......... just gotta make sure you're not part of the losing team.