Do you belive in god?

[Jason00S2000]

Originally Posted by RTS

All I see in this thread is a lot of immature children acting up against an authority they know to be true.

Kind of like how most teenagers rebel against their parents.

With age, some of you will get wiser. Others are just doomed to permanent wilful ignorance (Jason and Great68 etc.)

You're not serious, are you?


Religion is a system of control. By calling me ignorant, you assume I don't know about christianity. Bitch, please. I did the sunday school thing, and at around 12 I realized that it was just a giant lie like Santa Claus was.

Look at the whole system and how it's setup. How it's been used over the last 2000 years. It's a giant system of control designed to keep you in line and obeying your masters. The amount of power sharing governments have had to do with the Church over the last 1000+ years should be a huge example as to how and why the Church operates. Nevermind the money involved as well...


The belief in god, sure, if someone wants to believe in a magical space daddy, that's fine. The evidence points towards an indifferent, uncaring god that has no hand in day to day affairs of mortal beings.


Following religion, however, is far more damaging as it encourages us to hide our own hatred and prejudice behind scripture, and gives us a vehicle to condemn others.


I hope, someday, that RTS can free his heart and mind.

[Great68]

Originally Posted by Jason00S2000

Look at the whole system and how it's setup. How it's been used over the last 2000 years. It's a giant system of control designed to keep you in line and obeying your masters. The amount of power sharing governments have had to do with the Church over the last 1000+ years should be a huge example as to how and why the Church operates. Nevermind the money involved as well...

Don't forget the corruption!

[Presto]

Originally Posted by +Kardboard+

Religion doesn't equal faith. Besides, plenty of people have the wrong idea of what a religion is, and I agree that religions have trashed the world quite badly.

I wish more people would see that religion doesn't equal faith. I'm Christian, and I am in no way religious. I do, however, have a lot of faith in God, and I put my trust in Him.

Jesus doesn't like religion much, either. Instead of working for salvation, Jesus only wanted people to believe in Him, and they would receive salvation. He pissed off lots of religious folk, and they crucified Him.

[[j]nBk]

it's apes, not monkeys. more specifically, chimpanzees. and we did not evolve from them. we both share a common descendant ancestor

well oops. your point still has no relevance. we could one day find out that we actually "share a common descendant ancestor" with an ape that lived under water named sam and it would still mean nothing to the argument.

Originally Posted by observer

I have a fairly open mind but do not believe in God because it seems self-contradictory. It's not about proof but about reasonableness.

Inheriting a sin from an unrelated individual does not seem fair, yet God is supposed to be kind, loving and fair. "My way or the highway" justice doesn't seem loving either, what kind of religious freedom is God giving us, if we don't believe in him and we will be forever damned?

A world population created through incest seems utterly absurd, virgin conception seems ridiculous, and so does a talking snake.

One cannot easily prove that there is no flying elephants either, yet one does not believe in them, based on common sense.

Of course, I will be the first to admit that common sense is entirely subjective, based on ones intelligence, experience, and education.

The more we realize we don't know, the more we need science, or a scientific approach to guide us. If we leave all matters in the hands of religious priests, scientists such as Galileo Galilei will continue to be banned, as his findings contradict with religious teachings.

Science will always push the boundary creating heated confrontation with religion; in Galileo's time, it was the centre of the world debate, and currently it is of course creationism versus evolutionism.

yes. the more we realize we don't know the more we need science. you got that right. but that still has no relevance whatsoever to the existence of a god. science has yet to produce proof that there is no god and that's the bottom line. bottom freaking line.

it's like saying there is absolutely no way in hell that there is life on other planets simply because we haven't found proof yet. in the eyes of modern science, and for those of you who watch discovery channel regularly, it would be totally absurd to utterly dismiss the theory of life on other planets just because there is no hard evidence. so why are the smart-asses outright dismissing the idea of god's existence? because there are a bunch of tools in robes running around talking about flying elephants or snakes that talk. it's far easier to reject things that are supported by silly and outrageous stories. when a redneck claims to have witnessed a UFO we say he's crazy. but when we see intelligent scientists say that there is life on other worlds then we say he's probably right. it's the same damn shit.

and once again, just because religion tells you to worship sacred animals, virgin mothers or a being called jehovah and rejects scientific facts, this is no basis to say that there is no god. all religions may be false for all we know. so what? it still doesn't prove anything. open your mind and separate religion from god. i mean REALLY open your mind. you atheists think you're so open minded but your ideas are not much better than that of a tv evangelist. a bit better, but not much.

yeah, science is our best path to knowledge but by no means does science know all. stop giving it all this credit it doesn't deserve. stop saying science alone will save us. science is only as good as our own intelligence and the fact is that relative to the universe, we don't know very much at all.

at this point it's far more intelligent to say that we just don't know.

[q0192837465]

I find that a lot of ppl r stuck with the human interpretation of wut God is. Never take the Bible too literally, it's dangerous.

[Corey Darling]

I don't believe in any type of "god" figure created by man.

However, I cannot dismiss the possibility that there is another species out there who could have evolved to such a state.

Kinda like "Q" off trek lol. I'm sure we could all agree a species like that could be considered god like.

But they still are not gods. They are no more gods to us then we would be to the ancient peoples of the earth. They are simply more advanced.

[chun]

Just food for thought.

If you were walking along a path, and you saw five pebbles lined up in a row, the first reaction is to think that someone aligned them. Moreso, the greater the number of pebbles.

Intelligent design. Look at our bodies and look at the world. There are a lot of "designs" that evolution doesn't account for. For every watch, there is a watchmaker.

Once again, food for thought.

[Corey Darling]

Okay, here is something trippy to think about....

The solar eclipse - Sure is amazing that the angular size of the moon is exactly the same as the Sun.

If this wasn't the case, we would not have detected the Corona when we did, and we would not have been able to prove the theory of general relativity when we did.

Pretty amazing how nature works out - is it god? or pure chance? I lean towards chance.

Another interesting fact... the probability of the fusion of 4 H atoms into 1 He atom in the sun is so low, that statistically, it would only happen 1 in about 14 billions years- the estimated age of the universe- before the particles can over come the coulomb barrier and tunnel through. Yet, all it takes it one reaction to happen, then the probability increases.

[Culture_Vulture]

Originally Posted by chun

Just food for thought.

If you were walking along a path, and you saw five pebbles lined up in a row, the first reaction is to think that someone aligned them. Moreso, the greater the number of pebbles.

Intelligent design. Look at our bodies and look at the world. There are a lot of "designs" that evolution doesn't account for. For every watch, there is a watchmaker.

Once again, food for thought.

However,
when we decided to adapt our environment to ourselves instead of vice versa as it always had been,
we changed our natural evolution process.

Originally Posted by Corey Darling

Okay, here is something trippy to think about....

The solar eclipse - Sure is amazing that the angular size of the moon is exactly the same as the Sun.

If this wasn't the case, we would not have detected the Corona when we did, and we would not have been able to prove the theory of general relativity when we did.

Pretty amazing how nature works out - is it god? or pure chance? I lean towards chance.

Another interesting fact... the probability of the fusion of 4 H atoms into 1 He atom in the sun is so low, that statistically, it would only happen 1 in about 14 billions years- the estimated age of the universe- before the particles can over come the coulomb barrier and tunnel through. Yet, all it takes it one reaction to happen, then the probability increases.

Ignoring the "another interesting fact", I'd hardly think it's chance that the physics of space and time work the way they do. What it actually is, I have no clue though.

[chun]

Originally Posted by Corey Darling

Okay, here is something trippy to think about....

The solar eclipse - Sure is amazing that the angular size of the moon is exactly the same as the Sun.

If this wasn't the case, we would not have detected the Corona when we did, and we would not have been able to prove the theory of general relativity when we did.

Pretty amazing how nature works out - is it god? or pure chance? I lean towards chance.

Lean towards chance? What are the chances that not only the angular size of the moon is the same size as the sun, but it is only the same size to those obvserving from Earth, where also the ONLY sentient beings are (currently discovered). I would hate to have to prove anything to you!

[Culture_Vulture]

Originally Posted by AzNightmare

If you're talking about the Bible, it was written by many different people by the same God telling them what to write. So in other words, it was written by God, yet a selective of chosen men were used as "messengers" to phyiscally write it on paper, wood, animal skin, or whatever they used back then. So even if the people thought the earth was flat, it would of been irrelevant since the text weren't coming from them.

Touche, but that was only an example of how man created God in his own image, and not the other way around.

Originally Posted by AzNightmare

I did take account on evolution. We all did, since that's what we all learn in school. But I don't believe in humans evolving from apes.

Perhaps the knowledge wil be obtainable someday...
But that's like wondering when will an ant be smart enough to figure us out.

There's nothing difficult about believing that, primates or not, we evolved from SOMETHING. It's absurd (at least, in my opinion), to think that humans were created upon the will of some divine being after his own perfect image.
That would also mean that our brains were advanced enough to create rocket ships and go on REVScene a couple thousand years ago.
So, perhaps ants will evolve into a high-intelligence species, who knows?

[Jason00S2000]

My farts stinking as bad as they do is not by chance. The devil lurks inside my anus.

[Corey Darling]

Lean towards chance? What are the chances that not only the angular size of the moon is the same size as the sun, but it is only the same size to those obvserving from Earth, where also the ONLY sentient beings are (currently discovered). I would hate to have to prove anything to you!

Why? that doesn't prove that divine intervention decided to give the moon the mass it has, or set its velocity.

I was just saying that some amazing things can be attributed to chance. But can I full out say that some more advanced being decided to lay an Easter egg in our backyard for us to find? No. But if they did, maybe they did for shits and giggles lol.

EDIT:

Lean towards chance? What are the chances that not only the angular size of the moon is the same size as the sun...

They are probably no worse than the example i provided of nuclear fusion starting in the sun... but it happened anyway.

[ienhz]

[youtube]YjZ-lSn0A3M[/youtube]

[AzNightmare]

After hearing about this space stuff, reminds me of the video I watched of
Louie Giglio talking about how big the stars are compared to us and earth (and how God is even bigger than the biggest known star) and Laminin, the protein described as a protein that holds the body together, is shaped like a cross in diagrams in bio textbooks. And how under a microscope, it has resemblances like a cross. Also a picture of the core of Whirlpool galaxy M51 is kind of interesting. Coincidence possibly.

Louie Giglio stuff is on YouTube. Very easy to find if anyone cares.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by Presto

He pissed off lots of religious folk, and they crucified Him.

which again, is only speculation..

What happens down the line when science uncovers things that forever would be considered a mystery?

what happens when science discovers what existed BEFORE the big bang?

in 500 years u guys dont think that science will have evolved to a point where the most obscure questions of the universe will be answered easilly?

in 500 years religions as you know them now will not even exist.

[Noir]

After following 3 pages, and having observed this previous discussion in other threads in the past, what I find interesting is:

That the topic of religion is more sensitive to non-believers in comparison to the believers.

Another thing that I gather is that majority of non-believers, and even the strongest advocate of non-believers, do not come from strong atheist backgrounds, but ironically most of them come from religious backgrounds.

Seems to me that in modern cultures, religion hurts more than it helps.

[ienhz]

Originally Posted by Noir

Seems to me that in modern cultures, religion hurts more than it helps.

Thing is, there's really no place for religion in modern culture. If you look at it objectively (and realistically), religion has never benefited humans. Science is the only thing that has truly provided REAL benefits for humans. Which is why living life by science and reason rather than blind faith really makes the most sense.

[goo3]

Originally Posted by chun

Lean towards chance? What are the chances that not only the angular size of the moon is the same size as the sun, but it is only the same size to those obvserving from Earth, where also the ONLY sentient beings are (currently discovered). I would hate to have to prove anything to you!

moon's moving away slowly and it was closer before..

[observer]

Originally Posted by AzNightmare

Everything has consequences. It's just how things are.

Cause and effect is something we like to believe in, I completely agree with you. Yet when we discuss a concept such as a creator, we stop reasoning and accept that something (the creator itself) can be self-caused or can exist without a cause.

This to me is something I find hard to accept.

Originally Posted by AzNightmare

Canada is considered a free country. Yet we still have a law. So does that mean Canada isn't really a free country? How do you define freedom?

Most people would agree something such as freedom is relative. On the other hand, God is an absolute concept which makes it very hard to use reasoning to accept.

Originally Posted by AzNightmare

Many things will seem absurd if it's involving with the supernatural. That's what makes it supernatural. There are a lot of unexplained things in this world. For example, science hasn't been able to explain miracles. But of course, that depends if you believe in miracles in the first place.

The question we have here, is what exactly defines supernatural? I agree that that there are many things which science cannot explain, but is it responsible to conclude things which we cannot explain as miracles?

Originally Posted by AzNightmare

No one believes in flying elephants simply because there is nothing to support their existence from either sides.

For the same token, I find it difficult to link things we cannot explain to a creator or God.

Originally Posted by AzNightmare

You are right, common sense is subjective. One can say it's common sense that there is no greater power, yet someone else can say it's common sense that things don't happen by random chance. You could even think outside of the box, and wonder who or what created "science" in the first place.

Having a open mind is great. The part about the creator that seems odd to me, as pointed out above, is that the creator itself not having a creator.

When asked about the beginning of the world, I see the following:

Christians: God.
Buddhists: It always existed.
Scientists: I am not sure, but let's try to find out.

I'm not even sure if I subscribe to the random chance theory. To me, things are all governed by cause and effect, which in theory, means everything is pre-determined. Things seem random to us only because we have limited knowledge.

Originally Posted by AzNightmare

I believe certain things involving God and science do coexist. But using evolution as a tool, more specifically apes evolving to human, did not happen.

I think science is having an impact on religion redefining what God is. I don't know, I am not a scientist myself but to me, us evolving from apes or even bacteria sounds more plausible than a talking snake, no?

[observer]

Originally Posted by [j]nBk

why are the smart-asses outright dismissing the idea of god's existence?

Based on how God has been presented in the history of mankind, I find the teaching inconsistent and unfair. On the other hand, if God is supposedly a mean and nasty creator, who has since died, I may have a different opinion.

Secondly, the concept of a creator without a creator doesn't seem very logical. Of course, I could be wrong but what I can go by, besides my rational mind.

[LeanNsupreme]

I believe in Science, and Science doesn't support any fucking evidence of their being a God, and also in relation to Christianity, why the fuck do you have to donate 10% of your earnings to be a part of a Church? FUCKING SCAM AND BULLSHIT IMO, just like ULIC said, "God's never helped me one day in my life", i had my Mother Violently removed entirely from my life when i was 15 yrs old, their is no God, if their was IMO things would be different.

[Presto]

Originally Posted by LeanNsupreme

I believe in Science, and Science doesn't support any fucking evidence of their being a God, and also in relation to Christianity, why the fuck do you have to donate 10% of your earnings to be a part of a Church? FUCKING SCAM AND BULLSHIT IMO, just like ULIC said, "God's never helped me one day in my life", i had my Mother Violently removed entirely from my life when i was 15 yrs old, their is no God, if their was IMO things would be different.

You don't NEED to give 10%. God doesn't want people to give grudgingly. So if you can't give that 10% with a smile, then don't give it. There's a legitimate, biblical reason to tithe, but I'm afraid explaining it would fall on deaf ears.

[Culture_Vulture]

Originally Posted by LeanNsupreme

I believe in Science, and Science doesn't support any fucking evidence of their being a God, and also in relation to Christianity, why the fuck do you have to donate 10% of your earnings to be a part of a Church? FUCKING SCAM AND BULLSHIT IMO, just like ULIC said, "God's never helped me one day in my life", i had my Mother Violently removed entirely from my life when i was 15 yrs old, their is no God, if their was IMO things would be different.

Just because science doesn't support any evidence of a being called God, it doesn't mean God doesn't exist.
Scientists collect data in the form of observations. What they can't observe, they can't conclude. And just because we can't see any lifeforms in the universe using our current technology, we can't conclude that they do or do not exist.
At this stage, a mere hypothesis that there is a high chance of there being other organisms would suffice; because it is the only thing we can conclude using observations that we currently have.

The same goes to religious deities; just because we can't see them using our scopes, we can't say the beings themselves do not exist; regardless of the validity of their words (religious texts).
I will stop to say though, that a God (in our image), is an all-knowing, all-wise, and all-powerful being--I don't think anybody can refute that. But when science weighs in to the equation, evidence weighs more than words alone. So science is often on the heavier end of the scale.

I know I sound like a hypocrite by taking the middleroad all of a sudden, but after doing some thinking, I think it would be unfair for me (or anybody) to judge when I am on one absolute end of the spectrum.
Having said that, my personal opinion is still that God was created in man's image, and not the other way around.

[rslater]

Originally Posted by Noir

Another thing that I gather is that majority of non-believers, and even the strongest advocate of non-believers, do not come from strong atheist backgrounds, but ironically most of them come from religious backgrounds.

Seems to me that in modern cultures, religion hurts more than it helps.

Well said. I believe its because those with religious backgrounds begin to think CRITICALLY about their religion. Some begin to consider the fact that their religion shares no realistic facts, but are stories made up over time.