Do you belive in god?

[observer]

Originally Posted by ZhangFei

I have a question for you all:

How many of you are just googling, wikipedia-ing and copy-and-pasting your ideas just to pretend you're a smart guy on the internet?

This isn't exactly rocket science we have covered, just some basic concepts any philosophy student will learn their first year.

In my humble opinion, doing some additional reading (if even just on the internet), copying and pasting is a great thing. It's far better than sitting tight defending a dogmatic superstitious belief with nothing but blind passion.

Richard Dawkins has his points, but his criticism only covers Christianity where a mighty God exists. With my limited familiarity with Buddhism, I find the religion equally absurd and hard to accept.

To me, not believing in a religion is not about the proof or disproof of a vague almighty being (Buddhists don't even believe in a creator); it's about not having to live with the various doctrines' self-contradictions, as told by the so called religious leaders.

[goo3]

Originally Posted by ZhangFei

I share similiar beliefs with [j]nBk.

We don't know if there is God or not. You can only believe. There's no person that is totally convinced of God's existence or non-existence through logic. So you can use as many arguments as you want. Nobody is convincing nobody here.

Its only your emotions that convince you whether or not God exists.

You assume and then you use "logic" to justify. YOU DON'T KNOW.

But in the end, you don't know whether or not God exists.

I don't know anything about religion so I'm assuming God to be the guy in the sky Homer talks to on occasion.

To be able to convince ppl, they have to look at things objectively and with an open mind. If you've got your mind made up and aren't willing to change it, then there's no point arguing. You'll just run around trying to justify your position various ways.

You can't prove God exists but the backstop for you is that others can't dis-prove him either. OK, so we don't know 100% either way but you stop there and get defensive cuz you're afraid to go further.

But everyone else can and will go part way. How much evidence is there supporting God vs. how much supporting No God? Which one is more likely? How much is one side running around and avoiding tough questions compared to the other? Let's give it say 10% vs. 90% based on the evidence we have now. If you wanna still believe in the 10% then go for it. You won't convince anyone based on those odds, but what's the big deal? This isn't a life or death thing. If it works for you keep doing it. Maybe the others who go with the 90% odds are wrong. Sometimes ppl go all in pre-flop with A, A and still lose.

[goo3]

Originally Posted by [j]nBk

people just like to jump on the bandwagon. atheism has been on the rise and people tend to go with the flow. it's not any different from mullets in the 80's and faux hawks of today. later on we'll just look back and call it stupid.

OTOH, ppl in the 90s (rockheads) said rap was stupid and wouldn't last cuz it was a fad like disco. Music was cyclical and rock would come back to its glory because it was naturally better. Hmm..

[observer]

I bet the priests from the 18th century thought the Age of Enlightenment was a fad too.

[ZhangFei]

Originally Posted by observer

This isn't exactly rocket science we have covered, just some basic concepts any philosophy student will learn their first year.

In my humble opinion, doing some additional reading (if even just on the internet), copying and pasting is a great thing. It's far better than sitting tight defending a dogmatic superstitious belief with nothing but blind passion.

Richard Dawkins has his points, but his criticism only covers Christianity where a mighty God exists. With my limited familiarity with Buddhism, I find the religion equally absurd and hard to accept.

To me, not believing in a religion is not about the proof or disproof of a vague almighty being (Buddhists don't even believe in a creator); it's about not having to live with the various doctrines' self-contradictions, as told by the so called religious leaders.

you can't find God in a religious leader. that's absurd. they might be able to impart some wisdom to you that's it that's all. they, like you are trying to figure out this life. its just that these religious leaders come from a certain lineage of knowledge passed on from generation to generation. the reason why some certain organizations still exist to this day is because it still makes sense to some people.

anyways this is not about being religious, its just about believing in God that's it that's all. you can believe in God without being religious.

[observer]

Originally Posted by ZhangFei

you can't find God in a religious leader. that's absurd. they might be able to impart some wisdom to you that's it that's all. they, like you are trying to figure out this life. its just that these religious leaders come from a certain lineage of knowledge passed on from generation to generation. the reason why some certain organizations still exist to this day is because it still makes sense to some people.

anyways this is not about being religious, its just about believing in God that's it that's all. you can believe in God without being religious.

You will be surprised. A lot of people do find God from religious leaders. Look at the power of the Pope, Dalai Lama, etc. Buddhists for example listen to the wise teachers to understand and learn to get in touch with the Dharma for example.

I am not sure exactly what "God" you believe in or what you define as being "religious", but the conventional definition of religious is as follows:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religious

Main Entry: 1re·li·gious
Pronunciation: \ri-ˈli-jəs\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French religius, from Latin religiosus, from religio
Date: 13th century
1: relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity <a religious person> <religious attitudes>
2: of, relating to, or devoted to religious beliefs or observances <joined a religious order>
3 a: scrupulously and conscientiously faithful b: fervent , zealous

Of course, you may have a completely different angle. To me, the fact that you believe in a deity, or in your words, God, already makes you a religious person.

The irony is that most who believe in a supreme almighty power, God, energy, deity, alien, creator, "something" out there, don't really know and cannot explain what they believe in, they just know they do believe in a mysterious something, with faith.

With reasoning, I can understand the limitation of science, yet find it impossible to embrace all these mysterious ill-defined concepts with faith.

[!LittleDragon]

Originally Posted by Physixx

Unfortunately, Zeitgeist is but one biased-assed film.
Then let's put it this way.
Do you believe in the (sun) God?

I don't believe in any god but if I'm wrong, I'd like to think that I'll be judged by what I did in my lifetime rather than how much faith I have.

[Corey Darling]

I'd like to think that I'll be judged by what I did in my lifetime rather than how much faith I have.

Agreed... but why do people think there is a judgment at all? that's a human myth... If there is a god, i doubt he would feel the need to conform to our primitive superstitions.

[Presto]

Originally Posted by Corey Darling

Agreed... but why do people think there is a judgment at all? that's a human myth... If there is a god, i doubt he would feel the need to conform to our primitive superstitions.

It's not a random thought that people just happen to share. The reason why people 'think' there is judgment, is because it says so in the bible. The bible reveals a lot about God's character and his desire for us. To understand the bible is to understand God.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Rich Sandor

It doesn't matter what you believe in as long as you are a good person, and do good deeds for others.

Wrong if you're Christian. Apparently, you can be a good person as a whole, but still be condemned to hell if you have not accepted Jesus as your savior. But you can be an asshole, but as long as you've accepted Jesus, then you're in. Fuckin' stupid IMO.

Originally Posted by [j]nBk

atheism may not be a following per se and is only a reaction to religion. but atheism is still just a belief, not fact. people follow beliefs. and when we have people like richard dawkins we also get a bandwagon with his name on it.

You're just confusing yourself. There's no bandwagoning for those who do not believe. Like I said, majority of non-believers come from a religous background. However, they did not choose to be non-believers because they're friends are doing it, or its the societal trend. The ex-religous individuals become non-believers because once they graduate childhood and possess an intellect of their own without having to depend on the intellect of their parents, they realize that all this is "just fuckin'" stupid.

Seriously, if people take the time to take a step back and view it from a far, they will see that religion (Christianity as that is my background) is almost cult like in its devices.

Step 1.
Weening children to Christianity with fairytale stories of golden mansions in heaven, a big boat with all your barnyard animals in it, a guy with superlong hair endowed with superhuman powers.

Step 2.
Petrifying children with consequences of deviance to religion in order to reinforce the child's belief. Eternal lake of fire, Eternal torment by demons, Eternal torture. Seems like fucking overkill just for the sake of reinforcement.

Step 3.
Exclusivity, either you're with us or you're out. It's either you're considered Christian or not. It's either you're deemed "saved", or not.

And this cult-like devices my people, is why I will fuckin' oppose religion vehemently.

Originally Posted by Presto

It's not a random thought that people just happen to share. The reason why eople 'think' there is judgment, is because it says so in the bible. The bible reveals a lot about God's character and his desire for us. To understand the bible is to understand God.

Judgement is just one of the forms of control imposed by religious leaders to its subjects. Basically, if you want to go to heaven in judgement day, do not do the following X,Y,Z as per instructed by your religion, as per interpreted of by your religious leader.

[Presto]

Originally Posted by Noir

Judgement is just one of the forms of control imposed by religious leaders to its subjects. Basically, if you want to go to heaven in judgement day, do not do the following X,Y,Z as per instructed by your religion, as per interpreted of by your religious leader.

Do you know what the bible says, when it comes to entry to heaven? Refer to my sig.

It's pretty fuckin' clear that you have no clue what Christianity is about, and you're just lumping in your personal opinion to what you see and hear.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Presto

Do you know what the bible says, when it comes to entry to heaven? Refer to my sig.

It's pretty fuckin' clear that you have no clue what Christianity is about, and you're just lumping in your personal opinion to what you see and hear.

It's pretty fuckin' clear that you have no clue as to what religion is. Religion is so easily corruptible that whatever church you've been following may have different interpretations and approach to its views than the church I've followed for my childhood. So you're belief of what Judgement day is, may have a slight difference in mine. Or maybe you didn't take this into account, are you too narrow in thought?

Christian for a decade and a half. So don't take the "you don't know anything" attitude because I know it all too fuckin well. Maybe more than you, as I've seen the persepectives of both sides of the coin.

BTW, if you think I have no clue as to what Christianity is, I don't see you defending those cult-like devices the church uses, that is imposed primarily on children whose minds are malleable the most. Whose demographic are impressionable the most. C'mon, interpret it your own way.

[welfare]

the closest comparison i could think of to achieving some sort of interpretation would be the translation between shape and sound. and even then, it would still be absurd to think we could understand it


edit: i realize that there is actually a known correlation between shape and sound, but it was the best comparison i could whip up at the time. i suppose, as simple as it may sound, the best categorization would be attempting to explain the unexplainable. i think that about sums up what 98% of the posters have been trying to purvey

[welfare]

i also, personally, find it to be quite comical that people think they can impress definitive answers on the issue and then argue them as if they were fact. something like 2 people trying to imagine the same painting and then arguing over the interpretation of it.
death and taxes
i must say though, this thread did carry on some intelligent, thoughtful ideas for a lot longer than i had first imagined it would

[WhiteVitz]

Originally Posted by Noir

It's pretty fuckin' clear that you have no clue as to what religion is. Religion is so easily corruptible that whatever church you've been following may have different interpretations and approach to its views than the church I've followed for my childhood. So you're belief of what Judgement day is, may have a slight difference in mine. Or maybe you didn't take this into account, are you too narrow in thought?

Christian for a decade and a half. So don't take the "you don't know anything" attitude because I know it all too fuckin well. Maybe more than you, as I've seen the persepectives of both sides of the coin.

BTW, if you think I have no clue as to what Christianity is, I don't see you defending those cult-like devices the church uses, that is imposed primarily on children whose minds are malleable the most. Whose demographic are impressionable the most. C'mon, interpret it your own way.

Hello, I believe this bible verse wraps up the core belief of Protestant Christianity

For God so loved the world, that he gave his ONLY BEGOTTEN Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)


So all you have to do to get into Heaven is

- believe there is a God
- Admit that you are a Sinner
- Believe that Jesus died on the cross to pay for our Sins.
- Ask God for forgiveness of all your sins

There you go

[Corey Darling]

For God so loved the world, that he gave his ONLY BEGOTTEN Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

All good and all, but where did they make that up from? In my opinion, any earthly religion is just a system of stories and myths made by humans, for humans.

Although they may mention gods a whole bunch... doesn't mean god (if it exists) "approved of the messages" lol

As far as i know, there is no GOD APPROVED stamp on anything in the bible. Just a number of verses and stories (many of which are completely implausible) written by man, which claim to be the word of their specific god.

Personally, I leave the possibility open for some type of highly evolved being. Anybody who doesn't is just as close minded as the hardcore "god squaders" who refuse to even think of the idea that a god doesn't exist.

[WhiteVitz]

Hi Corey,

To be specific, According to the Christian belief, the bible was written by men that had been inspired by God.

The Bible was written over a period of 1400 - 1800 years by approximate 40 different people.

I will just copy a paragraph from a website: http://www.allabouttruth.org/who-wrote-the-bible.htm

If you are interested, you can read more about it on that website

This website is also interesting: http://ultimatequestions.org/

Who Wrote the Bible - A Letter from God
“Who wrote the Bible” is a question that is undoubtedly asked by many who are familiar with the impact this book has made on people around the world. The Bible gives guidance in our journey through life to eternity, as well as leads us to a relationship with the God of the universe. It is a historical book that is backed by archeology, and a prophetic book that has lived up to all of its claims thus far. In light of all these facts, asking, “who wrote the bible,” is a vital question that deserves serious investigation and a serious response. The Bible is God’s letter to humanity collected into 66 books written by 40 divinely inspired writers. These writers come from all walks of life (i.e., kings to fishermen) and spans over a period of 1,500 years or more. These claims may seem dramatic (or unrealistic to some), but a careful and honest study of the biblical scriptures will show them to be true.

Originally Posted by Corey Darling

All good and all, but where did they make that up from? In my opinion, any earthly religion is just a system of stories and myths made by humans, for humans.

Although they may mention gods a whole bunch... doesn't mean god (if it exists) "approved of the messages" lol

As far as i know, there is no GOD APPROVED stamp on anything in the bible. Just a number of verses and stories (many of which are completely implausible) written by man, which claim to be the word of their specific god.

Personally, I leave the possibility open for some type of highly evolved being. Anybody who doesn't is just as close minded as the hardcore "god squaders" who refuse to even think of the idea that a god doesn't exist.

[Corey Darling]

Thanks for that link, ill read that for sure tomorrow. im most interested in their archeogical evidence... but just reading that quote and already it sounds like a biased site towards gods definitive existence. should be an informative read tho

after reading that I think ill look for some other sources too

[WhiteVitz]

Originally Posted by Corey Darling

Thanks for that link, ill read that for sure tomorrow. im most interested in their archeogical evidence... but just reading that quote and already it sounds like a biased site towards gods definitive existence. should be an informative read tho

after reading that I think ill look for some other sources too

What you said is true!

To be fair, there have been constant debates going on between evolutionism scientists and creationism scientists. I believe Christian websites will be always be biased toward Christianity as that is what they believe in and same thing goes with Atheism's sites as well.

So It is up to you to make a judgment on which side you think makes more sense AFTER reading materials and claims from both sides.

Since I am a Christian, my belief is going to be biased toward Christianity..so I won't make more comments and let you seek for the truth as God had said in the bible if You seek for the Truth then you will find the truth.

I will provide a few more sites to you

http://www.trueorigin.org/

http://www.answersingenesis.org/

I heard there will be a debate going on in Feb at SFU

There will be an atheist vs theologian debate.. Maybe you can look up on that as well

[RenoMan]

Christian but have doubts so.....but LOL on these

Woman created from mans rib?
Talking snake?
Dinosaurs?
Noahs Ark all the animals in 1 boat?
Virgin Mary?

[WhiteVitz]

Woman created from mans rib?

I believe Eve was created from Adam's rib because God wanted to enlighten Adam and us with a message there.

Genesis 2:21 - 24

So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh; 22 and the rib which the LORD God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. 23 Then the man said, "This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man." 24 Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh.


I found this poem quite interesting:
http://journalynne.wordpress.com/200...from-mans-rib/

Talking snake?
Just my opinion here. The "talking snake" was Satan. Satan can transform into different shapes and forms to separate man from God.

Have you heard of the Angels and Devils analogy? I know it is not the best example... but sometimes there will be two voices telling us what to do and what not to do in our head.

Dinosaurs?
http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...-the-dinosaurs

Noahs Ark all the animals in 1 boat?
http://www.answersingenesis.org/crea...i2/animals.asp

Virgin Mary?
If you believe God is almighty then a virgin Mary is not all that impossible?

[Xnova]

there is no g0d

[03aspec]

^ very true, religion is also just a business. its all about the $$$$$$$$ y'all

[ZhangFei]

Originally Posted by WhiteVitz

So all you have to do to get into Heaven is

- believe there is a God
- Admit that you are a Sinner
- Believe that Jesus died on the cross to pay for our Sins.
- Ask God for forgiveness of all your sins

There you go

We don't even know if there's a heaven in the first place.

You're just like a crafty realtor that is trying to sell me real estate in Area 51.

There are certain sins that God can't save us from. God can't save us from the sin of being fat for example. Just because I accept Jesus doesn't mean all my sins from eating mcdonalds and fried foods will automatically go away. We have to save ourselves from fatness.

[+Kardboard+]

That's the thing, Christians believe that all their sins, past, present AND future are already toned for. Your soul, heart, core, call it what you will, is fundamentally changed, so no matter how much sinful, fatty tissue you have surrounding it or add around it you're already A-OK.

Of course, we go back to debating whether any of that is real, acceptable, fair, etc. In the end it just comes down to whether your faith is in God or in something/someone else.