Ok, first off, saying we should learn Japanese is just fucking retarded. We're not the one posting these things. If I knew Japanese, maybe I would go out and find the information people should, before they start posting them up.

I don't care if the information is hard to find (which is really isn't if you go out and try a little). But what really boggles my mind is how you guys can even be bothered to go through the effort of posting up pics of cars that you know nothing about. So it's a cool looking car. So what? Why should I care? Tell me.

Revscene used to filled with people that READ. Now people just post. But I'm not going to sit here and bitch about the state of affairs. People have been allowed to just post because Shoei can't go out and ban people for posting up pictures; that'd be just wrong. But I think we all need to take a little ownership of this site, and particularly this section, if we want Shoei to keep it running. So perhaps I was wrong in telling people to post up tuner cars... now I'm asking people to simply educate me, and Revscene as a populace about the cars they like. Obviously, you guys like these cars; tell us why you like them. By posting up nothing but inane, useless pics with vague descriptions like "V12 Supra," you may feel like you're contributing... but you're really not. You're slowly deducting from this discussion board's ability to provide car enthusiasts with a venue to educate and discuss vehicles.

SHENMECAR: Look, noob. Read the motherfucking thread in its entirety before you come and in and start swinging. As yet you've simply proven that you're a fucking lazy douchebag incapable of nothing more than a knee-jerk reaction.

NOW THOSE ARE HOT!!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

So since when did revscene became your own board to fufill your own personal interest? if you don't give a fuck about them then dont click into the thread.

All Timpo and everyone that post pictures are just sharing what they find on the net.

all we know is that the supra has a V12, its not OUR job to provide you extra information. If you want more information then find it out yourself and share it with others. Maybe that would help the community as you are also contributing and not just ranting about people posting pictures that you don't give a fuck about.

What's next? you are gonna rant the JB thread that the posters are only posting pictures without name, address, contact for those girls you see?

The F1 analogy doesn’t make sense.

Tuners are a business, exactly. These cars are built as advertisements for the parts (generally of the shelf) on the car. I want to know why you used them, how you used them, and what the result was.

The F1 team is a RACING advertisement. A business until itself. The F1 team is not going to come and tune my car or suggest the parts I use, so I don’t care much about there setup. The cars are usuall R&D for new technologys that may eventually see use in a street car years down the line.

And sorry but yes, if a company is selling product here in North America, I expect them to promote these numbers. Otherwise, I am back to looking at pretty pictures. Why would I learn Japanese? You sell these parts in North America, give me the information I want in a language that is widely spoken here, namely English (hell french or spanish might work too).

Regardless, as I said, I want tech information. Thank god the “tuner” crowd is growing up, and many are learning to not buy parts on hype alone. I know that I am certainly not alone in wanting this information from manufactures. Basically a “put up or shut up” with the products they sell. If they can’t give me a real world testing result and setup, why would I be interested?

You have a great example in your own post with the “MCR R34 - 600HP street/track/touge tuned all at the same time”

Please, tell me the setup here? The suspension and alignment setting would be the most interesting, as well as tires run on each road, track, and touge. There must be some pretty big compromises being made somewhere (probably street) to make a worthwhile track type vehicle. Or is it not running slicks? Mainly a street car? What are the dampers setup to, as I assume they are a double adjustable type setup? Off the shelf spring rates? Tire pressure? This wuld be much more usefull than what I am seeing.

EDIT: Let me make clear, I am not looking for anyone to post this up (although it would be helpful and add to the "tech"), but I am expecting this information to be available to the North American public in a language most can understand. I want these tuners to tell us why they are doing what they are doing, there philosophy in tuning, and why they setup certain cars, and how. Otherwise, you aren’t much of tuner shop are you? Midas can bolt parts on for you too, but not sure I would consider them a tuner. So now we are back to “are you a tuner or are you a parts reseller”?

just listen to wtf you were saying 91civicZC, and Z28.

Do you really think car tuner shops will let out their "secret" specs to public? Even if it's their demo car at most they'll let out their spring rate and tire choice. Because if everything else is out of the bag there's no value in going to that tuner shop! They don't WANT you to know, that's why they exist and do the "tuning" for those with less expertise. This is not open source community we are talking about here. They tune cars for a living they keep their secrets in their bags. The most comprehensive mod specs that you can find are in Option magazines, I'm holding onto one right now I can read and understand every fucking word in it but, let's say there is a dissection of the Amuse S2300GT1 and I'm interested to share, I'm gonna have to scan a picture of it, translate it and type it all over RS. Even then the info in the magazine won't tell you why this car can do Tsukuba in 1'00" with such small power because that's called TRADE SECRET! Also I ain't paid to type it out and you didn't pay to buy that magazine I'm holding onto. I don't see why it is something you should see as "deserving"? Why don't you post up all the technical specs of your favorite POS Land Rover tuner truck if you have such an urge to share with everyone then?

Even if you pull out pages of the buttonwillows time attack there is no way the tuner shops (other than mopar, probably) would tell you exactly what the setup is about.

also people who posted here aren't paid, so you are lucky to get as much info as you already do. So grow some brains either you start posting cars with full specs yourself or stop fucking whining about it.

Also you should also understand that only a very very small fraction of people on RS actually participate in motorsports (especially when AutoX is now piss in the wind) and people are more interested in how the car looks like more so than how much bhp is it pulling out and how many Gs it can pull in a corner.

Where do you use more than 50bhp on a daily commute anyway!?

Tuners not only have to build advertisment for the parts the develop but also their skills in tuning.

any mechanic can bolt on parts, they have to show who can make use of the parts and see who's faster. Hence, time attack. Nurburgring time attack is just another tool for manufacturer to show case their development. Tsukuba, Willow Spring, are used for tuners. Where is the development if everyone knows the secret HKS used to make their car 54s around Tsukuba while Mine's is stuck at 56s?

Why do people bring their cars to Amuse to tune and not just buy the parts and bolt it on in their garage?

and seriously, why are you asking me what MCR's setup is? If you want to know, then have a plane ticket to tokyo and ask Mr.Kobayashi yourself. I'm sure he will give you all the information you want. You are the one asking for the information that no one knows but the tuner themselves. you might as well ask how much torque they used for each and every bolt and nut in the car.

Hk20000

Besides the “grow some brains” and “stop whining” Comment (I havent done any personal attacks here so pull your fucking head out of your ass and learn to have a proper conversation. I didn’t see myself whining anywhere.) You have given me exactly what I was asking for. Is there a place to get the general setup of these cars? Apparently Option does. I don’t read it, maybe I will have to start (not so hard to explain that, was it?). I didn’t think it was available in English, am I wrong? Perhaps after having access to this information by working in the industry, I have lost interest in the washed out versions that are made available to the public on these cars?

As for trade secretes, While my complaint here is way off topic now, what started it for me was the fact that “tuner shops” don’t seem to be tuners anymore for the most part. They simply sell parts and expect the manufactures of those parts help to tune the customers car. I know this from experience, and its really annoying. Why doesn’t the manufacture simply sell direct. They make more money, and they are doing all the work for the tuner anyway. Very big names (I wont mention who they are specifically) are guilty of this. Doesn’t make them any more of a tuner than Midas in my opinion.

I LIKE the pictures of tuner cars, but I want more information with them. I want to know details of the car, and why it was setup this way, and for what type of use will it see. From there some race results, and some general specs would be nice. (eg: Street Tien dampers but uses an aggressive DOT X brand race tire with a very aggressive track alignment setting) would be great.

As I said, I don’t expect the users to post it up, but a place to find the article would be nice, especially if its being found in the tech forum. Or the Tuners themselves posting it up on North American based websites.

RennSport
As for Flying to Japan, Let me get right on that. Some of us don’t live in a world where that is reasonable. However, getting some information with my pretty pictures I would think is.

I admit that the depth of what I am looking for will probably never be made readily available, but even just a general setup would be cool. What hk20000 makes sense, and i am asking for too much. But I also think the general public is gien WAY too little information. Again, maybe am just not looking in the right place?

This doesn't even deserve its own thread
its just gonna piss more and more people off

Alot of the people enjoy the threads that Timpo posts, he keeps us updated with whats going on in the automotive history. We should appreciate what he delivers to our forum. Timpo's posts ARE automotive chat, tuner cars ARE automotives. So why can't he post? Just because some people hate it?

Please, HK2000 and Rennsport, illustrate my point a little bit more. Please.

I couldn't have concocted better examples of what's wrong with Revscene. You feel that simply because you CAN post, you SHOULD post. The difference between RS now, and RS then, was that there used to be an overwhelming sense of community that kept you fucking noobish twats from posting up such useless bullshit for fear of getting reamed out.

Now, you fuckwads are telling me that "its not our job to post information, we aren't paid blah blah blah." You may as well be a pair of fucking overweight fuck-fucks on Maury show snapping your fingers in front your overstuffed faces going "Y'all don't know me... I do wha I wan bitches!" Yeah, you can post up pictures of cars with absolutely no context, information, or even the tiniest little catalyst of a discussion-starter beyond what it looks like. But ever since those sort of threads really started dominating the VAC, the number of posters has dropped significantly. With information comes education, opinion, and discussion. Look at the best threads of the VAC; they're all very detailed and very technical. Why bother wasting bandwidth with 100 shitty, no-content threads when you could spend a little bit more time investing in the community you both use and abuse to creat 25 great threads that go for page after page?

EDIT: Jobo, who the fuck are you. 122 posts? You don't even know what the fuck I'm talking about, so get the fuck out.

if you want to blame us for not posting enough information, you might as well blame the media for not delivering the information you want.

this is not just about tuner cars, but everything else in general including world news.

get the fuck out? lol..
you're just some guy looking for e-beef, like everyone really cares about what you think
you're just one guy, we're a community here on RS, we share whatever we find about automotives in this forum. Sure i have 123 posts, but im sure more fuckin mature than you

Let me give you an example of what 1983 Z28 is trying to illustrate:

What he doesn't like:
What he'd like to see more of
More factual information would be nice, but at least it gives us a bit of information as to what we're looking at.

A) If the information isn't out there, don't bother posting the car. It's that simple. I come across hundreds of good looking cars every day at work, but I don't bother posting them up because I cannot provide any point of reference for RS members.

B) More mature? No, you're not. What you are is a person that has yet to contribute anything at all to this community whatsoever. I'm not looking for an e-beef, I'm trying to make an effort to resurrect what was a fantastic local community of helpful and friendly car enthusiasts. It used to make a mockery of the local domestic forums for their immature and useless attitudes, but I'm sad to say that vancouverfbody.com has an automotive chat section that puts RS to shame. And guys like you are part of the problem. Just because you're here doesn't give you any amount of authority. And you weren't here when other members had a certain degree of authority based on their knowledge and skill. They weren't mods, but they were respected just the same.

EDIT: Thank you Lomac. Precisely.

Aren't you some so call automotive journalist? shouldn't you provide us with information?
or are you just trying to leech information off here for your own material?

so suddenly everyone that post on revscene should probably have some kind of degree in journalism or they do not qualify to post.
or better yet, just copy and paste the article from autoblog.com, all the information you need.

Here is the GTR rim on Asian_XL's thread
http://www.gtr-world.net/media/news/...08-neez-03.jpg

and here is the information along with the article, can you read it? I can't. Need translation? I'm not bablefish.
＜35GTR専用設計　鍛造1ピースアルミホイール＞　
国産車・輸入車等車種にこだわらず、チューニングカーを手掛けるei8ht(エイト)より、35GTR専用 設計の8000tプレス鍛造1ピースアルミホイールを発売。
前後異形デザインで、リアは大迫力のディープ形状を採用。
サイズはフロントが10J-20inch、リアが11J-20inch (neez製)だ。
車両は1月9日に開幕する東京オートサロン2009、Abflug＜アブフラッグ＞ブースにて公開、展示さ れる。

You're a real smart ass, eh Rennsport? You're definitely actively contributing a TON to this community. Jeez, I'm surprised we aren't competing with Autoblog for traffic.

And no. I am not a "so call automotive journalist." I am an automotive journalist.

But my job has absolutely no bearing on this discussion. I see 99% of the information on RS at least a couple days before any of you do (benefit of emabargoes press releases), and I wouldn't use a forum for material... you see, we journalists have this thing called accountability, and our references are a big part of that.

I just miss my old Revscene.

people out there actually enjoy his posts, whether theres information or not. Theres alot of people on here who love a certain look of a car, and then look up more information on it, googling the words "Joy Delsol" is as simple as clicking "back," I understand where you're coming from, but how hard is it to use google?

and if you see information on RS a couple days before all of us why do you need it typed out nicely for yourself?

This thread has already gone on longer than every single one of those "tuner" threads.

So tell me, what's more popular? Discussion? Or pictures completely devoid of context?

You make a very good point, but at the same time, how long does it take to post pictures of something? not very long. Wouldn't it make for a better thread if you were to include some information? Even if you have to translate some of the information you're helping people who can't normally read that stuff, to be able to understand.

I"m not pointing this at you, because you don't post that nonsense so don't take it personally.

Lomac's example of the car is good, if it had more technical stuff it'd be even better, sort of like our Member's Car Forum, where some of the members go very in depth about what they've done.

:haha::haha::haha:

I agree with the OP in the sense that quality threads are harder to find now than a needle in a haystack, but thats what happens when the board becomes popular and too many mofos sign up.. :S

wow, I am siding and agreeing with Hyde for once. :eek:

1983-z28, the posting of "tuner" cars (ugly or nice) has been part of RS since the early days.

I post in VAC the odd time, but almost never will I start a thread.

I post what I am working on, and look at threads of what other people are working on.

Not many folks care, but some do and it's cool to see what local guys are up to. I wish the project section were more active.

But eh, I just contribute what I can and don't read the threads that don't interest me. What else can you do?

I don't know how others got into cars, but I owe a huge part of my interest into cars from people simply posting pictures on forums like this, and reading the comments and responses that followed.

I would in the past, as well as now, follow forum conversations about what does what, who makes what, where it comes from, what's it's made of, why it's important, Google'ing automotive brands and automotive terminology referenced on forums, etc etc to promote my automotive interests.

I know I probably can't communicate this anymore clearly than it needs to be, but just consider this: even if you don't find these threads useful personally, this does not mean others don't find this useful either.

You may want more technical debates and/or conversations about all the intricate little mechanical parts and the like, but who would really understand it? RS's primary audience is not composed of automotive engineers. A lot of people don't know, nor really care all that much about the gears and mechanics of it all. A lot of us are capable of intelligent conversatioons about obscure and technological subjects that few know about.

You know what I think composes RS's primary audience? Guys who just want to come onto a forum to read and chat casually about whatever's on their minds. Something easy to read that they can do while giving their mind a rest on break from whatever school or job they're on. Something simple, that's all.

Q. I've posted many articles from Autoblog and WCF in the past on RS. Do you want to know why?
A. Because not everybody has the time, knowledge, or inclination to go out and read the 209374325 automtive news sites out there. Contrary to popular belief, many of us only have a few minutes out of the day to read these things. Why read a dozen sites when RS covers more than half of them?

Q. Why don't I, or anyone else for that matter, just post and read the comments from those other sites like Autoblog, WCF, Jtuned, Nihoncar?
A. I don't want to read Autoblog's comments, I don't care about WCF's bloggers - I want to hear what RS has to say.

RS is pretty tolerant, IMO. Subjects vast and wide are posted here. If you start nitpicking and saying "Don't post this" or "Less of that" - you're setting precedence - sooner or later, everybody's voiced their personal opinions of what they don't want to see, what's left?

RS may have grown from what you've been accustomed to.

i like land rovers.
:)