REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

gummo604 · 01-25-2009, 09:37 PM

Ok i got pulled over by a RCMP and he issued me a ticket for "unauthorized illumination of fog lamps" MVA regulation section 4.02 (1) for $81

now, my car is completely stock exterior-wise and so are the fog lights (factory fogs). He basically said it is against the law to have fogs on when its not foggy.

I pulled up the MVA reg.(below) and nothing says it is illegal to have fogs on.. unless you are running fogs without headlights when there are no dangerous weather conditions. Well, I had all my lights on with the fog so I don't see any offense on my part.

If any officers can clarify this that would be great. Thanks

Fog Lamps
4.11
(1) A motor vehicle may be equipped with 2 fog lamps, mounted on the front of the vehicle below the headlamps, that are capable of displaying only white or amber light.

(2) Each fog lamp must be
(a) mounted not more than 30 cm below the headlamps, and
(b) adjusted and aimed so that, at a distance of 8 m from the lamp, the centre of the beam is at least 10 cm below the height of the fog lamp.

(3) The fog lamp wiring and switch must permit simultaneous operation of the parking lamps, tail lamps, licence plate lamp and, if required, clearance lamps.

(4) The operator of a vehicle may use fog lamps instead of headlamps when atmospheric conditions make the use of headlamps disadvantageous.
[en. B.C. Reg. 476/98, s. 2.]

Soundy · 01-25-2009, 09:53 PM

Holy smokes,

:

There's only been about 500 other threads about this in the last month...

(Well, okay, one or two, but still, not hard to find them...)

smoothie. · 01-26-2009, 12:19 AM

instead of got search, why not just post a response.

then say search next time?

johny · 01-26-2009, 12:32 AM

post up section 4.02, what the ticket is for. no point looking at 4.11. (no idea what it is, so I'm telling you to go looking.)

alex.w *// · 01-26-2009, 12:35 AM

wow it must be a really unlucky day for you...

i see so many ppl in the summer with fog lights on at night in 20 degrees clear sky weather

Osaka · 01-26-2009, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothie.

instead of got search, why not just post a response.

then say search next time?

cococly · 01-26-2009, 01:27 AM

=.=??

what's the color of your fog light? Techinally, it can only be White when it's not Foggy

Splinter · 01-26-2009, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothie.

instead of got search, why not just post a response.

then say search next time?

Same reason you don't let a kid eat a cookie if you catch him stealing from the cookie jar.

Soundy · 01-26-2009, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothie.

instead of got search, why not just post a response.

then say search next time?

Because if everyone did that every time, there'd be no point in saying "use search first".

There's a sticky at the top of the forum, you see...
PLEASE READ POLICE FORUM RULES BEFORE POSTING!

The FIRST TWO points in those rules are:

Quote:

1. Respect the officers that come here, they are helping you out on their personal time.

2. (use search function) Don't swamp them with redundant questions, (use search function) check to see if your question has been answered in some other posts before (use search function)

But you already knew that, because you read the rules before posting, RIGHT?

zulutango · 01-26-2009, 07:25 AM

Just to lower the stress level a bit...here is the section used in the VT.

General lighting requirements
4.02 (1) A vehicle on a highway must only be equipped with and use lamps, reflectors or other illuminating devices authorized by this Division or authorized in writing by the director.

From my read, I can't see how this applies to having fog lights on or off?

If you had non-factory lights that did not meet standards, I could see how that section would apply...but there is nothing there that talks about light illumination...just about IF you could have them ON your car. Based entirely on what you have told us here, I can't see how this VT could result in a conviction? Other opinions???

gummo604 · 01-26-2009, 11:11 AM

guys guys... ok i have done a search before posting and i have found results... its just that i haven't got 100% clarification from the search because some people are saying fogs are LEGAL in BC anytime as long as they meet standards... but then some people are saying fogs are ILLEGAL when its not foggy.

I want to know which is true in BC? According to the MVA regulation:

Quote:

4.02 (1) A vehicle on a highway must only be equipped with and use lamps, reflectors or other illuminating devices authorized by this Division or authorized in writing by the director.

Ok, so only lights authorized by this Division is allowed... so what does the division say about fogs?

Quote:

4.11 (1) A motor vehicle may be equipped with 2 fog lamps, mounted on the front of the vehicle below the headlamps, that are capable of displaying only white or amber light.

(2) Each fog lamp must be
(a) mounted not more than 30 cm below the headlamps, and
(b) adjusted and aimed so that, at a distance of 8 m from the lamp, the centre of the beam is at least 10 cm below the height of the fog lamp.

(3) The fog lamp wiring and switch must permit simultaneous operation of the parking lamps, tail lamps, licence plate lamp and, if required, clearance lamps.

(4) The operator of a vehicle may use fog lamps instead of headlamps when atmospheric conditions make the use of headlamps disadvantageous.
[en. B.C. Reg. 476/98, s. 2.]

I have done my research and as far as I know, I have done nothing wrong. My car is stock with factory fog lights. I signed the ticket because I presumed the RCMP officer knew what he was doing... I was confused like... "wth... ticket for fog light???" While i was waiting to get my ticket, at least 5 more cars passed by with fogs on and none of the other cops with him gave a crap, they just stood there chatting.

Also, there were 4 patrol cars and about 8 cops? They were pulling everyone over and checking... and it seems I was the last to get let go and the only one with a ticket. Seriously, shouldn't they be looking for real crimes?

I was just going to my mom's place to visit and have dinner... jeesus

Anyways, I was just wondering if anyone here knew the answer to whether fog lights are permitted in BC?? Because from my research, they are.... and I was just given a ticket for it

Raver4Life · 01-26-2009, 11:26 AM

the exact same thing happened to my buddy but he let him go. now he turns them off everytime he sees a cop

gummo604 · 01-26-2009, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zulutango

Just to lower the stress level a bit...here is the section used in the VT.

General lighting requirements
4.02 (1) A vehicle on a highway must only be equipped with and use lamps, reflectors or other illuminating devices authorized by this Division or authorized in writing by the director.

From my read, I can't see how this applies to having fog lights on or off?

If you had non-factory lights that did not meet standards, I could see how that section would apply...but there is nothing there that talks about light illumination...just about IF you could have them ON your car. Based entirely on what you have told us here, I can't see how this VT could result in a conviction? Other opinions???

Exactly. My car has factory fog lights. I'm really stressing out right now because I think I just got ticketed for doing nothing wrong!

skidmark · 01-26-2009, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gummo604

Seriously, shouldn't they be looking for real crimes?

Seriously, they were. They just found you instead.

Fog lights are allowed to be used as DRL's, so I don't know how the officer got this idea. Time for a phonecall to them asking to withdraw, and if not, then to their boss.

zulutango · 01-26-2009, 01:26 PM

This problem come sup all the time because drivers use aftermarked, over-watted lights in their vehicles and call them "fog" lights, when they are not capable of providing any light form that would be of use in real fog. "Real" fog lights are yellow/orange and low power...NOT blinding white and high power. I spent 13 years driving in fog in Nfld and I have real life experience in fog. You need low power yellow light that will not refelct the fog. There were even times I drove with my headlights out and only parking lights on because even the normal stock factory seal beams on a CV or Impala, was too bright to be useful.

I used to stop cars with them on where there was no reason other than vanity, to have them on. Some are very bright and blinding. I hate being blinded because somebody thinks it's cool. I have FOG lights on my motorcycle and only operate them when the visibility makes them advantageous. Even then, if I'm behind somebody or approaching them, I will turn them off until I'm no longer annoying them. ' What it comes down to is if they are "fog" lights or "driving lights" . Driving lights can only be wired so they go on with high beams. You have the section above for fog lights. IF the lights are FACTORY FOG LIGHTS IN EVERY RESPECT AND FIT THE TRANSPORT CANADA REQUIREMENTS AND DESCRIPTION AS FOG LIGHTS, then I;m not aware of any requirement in BC that governs when they must NOT be operated. I stand to be corrected on this.

MarkyMark · 01-26-2009, 01:39 PM

Yeah I don't see a problem with factory fogs, it's when people think it's cool putting 6000k HID's in them, combined with their 8000k ricer HID headlights that end up ruining it.

tonyvu · 01-26-2009, 03:44 PM

whaatt that's retareded... i ride with my fogs on all the time and no cops ever pull me over; and my fogs are bright yellow... damn

gummo604 · 01-26-2009, 04:09 PM

Okay, so I'm going to conclude that it is in fact COMPLETELY LEGAL to operate factory (non-modified) fog lights during any time of the day and in any weather condition in BC. I just would like this clarified for future reference.

Anyways, I'll call in and ask for my ticket to be canceled because this would be a waste of time to dispute if the ticket itself was incorrectly issued.

Thanks for all your inputs. I'll keep you guys posted on what happens.

Soundy · 01-26-2009, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cococly

=.=??

what's the color of your fog light? Techinally, it can only be White when it's not Foggy

Incorrect.

Quote:

Fog Lamps
4.11
(1) A motor vehicle may be equipped with 2 fog lamps, mounted on the front of the vehicle below the headlamps, that are capable of displaying only white or amber light.

There's nothing that stipulates they have to change color to match the conditions.

greendb7 · 01-27-2009, 01:49 AM

Well I'm glad I didn't make a new post about this..
to the OP, were you driving down 96th right by Fraser when you got stopped?
cuz I was driving on 96th last Saturday and there was a roadblock there to check for any drinking and driving (they do it there every few weeks or so)
the cars in front of me were led through and I get pulled over and he asks me why he pulled me over
I said "to check for any alcohol comsumption?"
he said "yes and your foglights too, they're illegal you can only have foglights on if there is fog out"
at that point I thought to myself not to question that and just get him to STFU so I said "ok problem solved" and switched them off
he just stood there staring at me for like 3 seconds then let me go
so they are OEM, the yellow ones on my 1995 Integra
so judging by the responses, I guess most cops don't know what they're talking about when they say I can't have them on.

zulutango · 01-27-2009, 07:36 AM

General Duties Members are probably not that well-versed in the details of the MV Act & Regs. A "cheater' is issued for quick reference to the offenses and they can mislead the user to believe certain sections apply, when a closer read of the actual legislation will show that it does not. Traffic Members should be better informed but some junior Members can make the same mistake. As many members in the LMSD are junior in service, this could be the problem.

Soundy · 01-27-2009, 07:56 AM

^Put a link to the regs in your Blackberry/iPhone/geek-toy and pull it up on the spot if there's ever a problem

Jobo · 01-27-2009, 09:27 AM

*Sigh* I was just about to put foglights on my car too..

Raid3n · 01-27-2009, 12:50 PM

^why are you sighing? they are legal....

gummo604 · 02-02-2009, 06:10 PM

well i called in and talked to the cop that issued me the ticket... turns out he's a staff sergeant for surrey RCMP

i told him about how the MVA does not mention about foglights being illegal for my case.. but he insisted that it is infact illegal. He says you are only allowed to have one pair of lights (headlamps) on while driving and those must be either white or amber.

Looks like the only thing left to do is to file for dispute.