Police Forum Police Head Mod: Skidmark
Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only. |
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02-19-2009, 04:31 AM
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#1 | | Proud to be called a RS Regular!
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| undue care and attention
what exactly does this ticket mean
and is it a charge even worth fighting or trying to get reduced?
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02-19-2009, 07:36 AM
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#2 | | ninja edits your posts without your knowledge
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Did you get into an accident?
A detailed story will help us help you since this particular ticket has a spectrum of possibilities from being stupid and causing an accident to swerving in and out of lanes.
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02-19-2009, 10:29 AM
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#3 | | The RS Freebie guru
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I think you definitely have a chance at getting it reduced, if you have a decent argument, but there's no way it'll be dismissed because this is one of those tickets that's completely up to the discretion of the issuing officer. If the cop thinks you were driving with undue care and attention, the judge won't overturn it.
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02-19-2009, 11:31 AM
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#4 | | RS Peace Officer
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An example of one handed out. Guy runs a stop sign in front of me on my right side at a T intersection, I was going straight thru. He accelerated hard and went across the road in front of me with his left wheels almost hitting the curb. Any oncoming traffic would have been ahead on. He then nailed the gas to drive about 50 yards to a 4 way stop. He lied to the JP, telling him that his clutch was bad and had been giving him problems for about a month. Said every time he took off it just grabbed and the car was uncontrollable....for a month now. JP didn't believe him either.
Same guy in the same 5.0 months later, on a 4 lane with pedestrian activated X walk light. 3 other vehicles stopped as the light was changing from flashing green, to stead green to red. He was about 220 yards back and floored it, heading towards the intersection. I could hear & see him coming. He blasted the X walk after the cross now light permitted the 4 small children standing on the corner, to cross. They heared him coming and fortunately did not cross when they were permitted. It was his second due care VT from me before the same JP, who ripped him a new one the size of the BC place stadium and contacted the MVB.
It comes down to the articulation of the Cop who issued the VT. he has to describe a situation wher the driver did NOT drive with DUE ( considered, well thought out)
CARE ( planned safe acts). Look up the dictionary definitions. I always end my testimony by reading the Webster's definition of each word and then summerize how the driver did NOT meet them.
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02-19-2009, 12:20 PM
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#5 | | Proud to be called a RS Regular!
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well it was my friend who got the ticket in my vehicle.. so my car got docked for inspection
but basically he was driving around in a gated community going much faster than he should be at around 1 in the morning and set a car alarm off
as we were leaving we saw the lights go on behind us (the cop was already in the complex)
apparently she said she was already in there and we almost ran her over
but honestly I didn't see a single cop car in there and it's lit up pretty well
I figure somebody called the police on us and she entered the complex right before we were about to leave
so I'm questioning what exactly this particular officer saw us doing
anyways how many points is this ticket in B.C.?
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02-19-2009, 12:28 PM
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#6 | | Retired Traffic Cop
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She might not have seen anything, but if she has solid witnesses willing to attend court she doesn't need to. The only way your friend will know is to write asking for disclosure.
Note to self: Don't loan the vehicle to this clown again....
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02-19-2009, 12:33 PM
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#7 | | RS Peace Officer
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Your "friend" should be asking these questions. Almost hitting a Cop would likely be a basis for drive w/o due care and I'm sure that going "much faster" inside a gated community sounds like another factor. The fact that you (your firiend the driver) didn't see the Police is another. Running someone over sounds like the Member was on foot and the fact that she was not visible in a marked PC is not an excuse or even an explanation.
"So Mr Driver, if you had seen the Constable sitting in a marked Police car, would you have driven in the same manner that night? " NO. "Why not, were you worried about getting caught while driving at high speed inside a gated community at night? You see where this would go quickly in court.
Your "friend" is an idiot to drive like that, you are really not smart for being in the car next to him while it is happening and you are also not smart for letting him drive like that at any time. Guess who will be paying any insurance and civil costs because you permitted him to drive like that. You are a party to any offence he commits.
Your "friend" should search "disclosure" here for the Police evidence. It will cost "your friend" 6 points I believe, but that's not a problem for you ,as you were the passenger right?.
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02-19-2009, 12:49 PM
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#8 | | Proud to be called a RS Regular!
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by zulutango  Your "friend" should be asking these questions. Almost hitting a Cop would likely be a basis for drive w/o due care and I'm sure that going "much faster" inside a gated community sounds like another factor. The fact that you (your firiend the driver) didn't see the Police is another. Running someone over sounds like the Member was on foot and the fact that she was not visible in a marked PC is not an excuse or even an explanation.
"So Mr Driver, if you had seen the Constable sitting in a marked Police car, would you have driven in the same manner that night? " NO. "Why not, were you worried about getting caught while driving at high speed inside a gated community at night? You see where this would go quickly in court.
Your "friend" is an idiot to drive like that, you are really not smart for being in the car next to him while it is happening and you are also not smart for letting him drive like that at any time. Guess who will be paying any insurance and civil costs because you permitted him to drive like that. You are a party to any offence he commits.
Your "friend" should search "disclosure" here for the Police evidence. It will cost "your friend" 6 points I believe, but that's not a problem for you ,as you were the passenger right?. | yeah he's an idiot.. and i don't care what you suggest there was NO cop on foot in the complex.. I'm not trying to make an excuse just putting it out there
I Get the lesson they're trying to teach him that he COULD have mowed someone down and that is somthing in the back of my mind evertime i drive at an accelerated rate of speed (although i don't do anything as moronic as my colleage)
I know It is my car and I'm the passenger but i can't physically control what he does..I specifically told him not to do certain things and he ignored me! (im much physically smaller than he is and i honestly don't know what to do)
maybe i could turn the ignition or somthing and yell at him but that would probably be dangerous at the time
It's not like i had a gun to his head..the dude was having a bad day and was being a complete moron
lessons learned..
btw the driver is an 18 year old mentally deficient individual (not unlike myself  )
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02-19-2009, 03:25 PM
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#9 | | Captain Happy Bubble is my Homeboy
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Originally Posted by Johnrb but basically he was driving around in a gated community going much faster than he should be at around 1 in the morning and set a car alarm off
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mods, a quick question.
isn't being inside a gated community outside of public domain. Jurisdiction wise how do you determine that.
I mean speeding and endangering people inside (the gated community) is dumb, but how about driving without a seat belt on.
I live in a gated community and I do know one of my neighbors is a RCMP Cst. He sees me drive around inside without my seatbelts on ( i take if off as soon as i cross the gate) and doesn't say anything, what's the deal with that? Like in basement parking lots. I usually take off my seatbelt as soon as I clear the entrance. Would I be pulled over and ticketed.
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02-19-2009, 03:51 PM
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#10 | | ninja edits your posts without your knowledge
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by faceless_el mods, a quick question.
isn't being inside a gated community outside of public domain. Jurisdiction wise how do you determine that.
I mean speeding and endangering people inside (the gated community) is dumb, but how about driving without a seat belt on.
I live in a gated community and I do know one of my neighbors is a RCMP Cst. He sees me drive around inside without my seatbelts on ( i take if off as soon as i cross the gate) and doesn't say anything, what's the deal with that? Like in basement parking lots. I usually take off my seatbelt as soon as I clear the entrance. Would I be pulled over and ticketed. | Maybe the RCMP Cst is just being nice and not trying to be a dick to a neighbor. Just a thought.
And as far as I remember, regardless of it being a gated community, the roads in those communities belong to the city. It is just closed off is all. So you certainly could get ticketed.
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02-19-2009, 08:53 PM
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#11 | | racing & tech mod.
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My understanding is that a gated community is considered an extension of the "highway" (roads) because anyone can get in and out as long as the gates are open.
A private underground that requires a key is not accessable to the public and therefore, the MotorVehicleAct does not apply.
That is my understanding... skidmark? zulu?
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02-19-2009, 09:07 PM
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#12 | | Proud to be called a RS Regular!
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hey one question..
do all my tires have to match for a vi
i have 3 tires that are the same make and model and one that is different but they all have tread past the wearbars
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02-20-2009, 06:53 AM
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#13 | | RS Peace Officer
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Rich...right on both counts...for motor vehicle act infractions...
"highway" includes
(a) every highway within the meaning of the Transportation Act,
(b) every road, street, lane or right of way designed or intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles, and
(c) every private place or passageway to which the public, for the purpose of the parking or servicing of vehicles, has access or is invited,
but does not include an industrial road;
You can google the BC transportation act, Forest service roads, industrial roads etc for further definitions.
Johnrb they need to be the same size & type. No bias/belted/radial mix. I'm not aware of the need for matching tread problem...although having knobbies and lowprofile mixed might be. It comes down to how "different" they are. The inspector will tell you.
Last edited by zulutango; 02-20-2009 at 06:59 AM.
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02-20-2009, 06:54 AM
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#14 | | I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
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^That definition would include someone's private driveway right up to their garage door.
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