My apologies, I just looked up the differences on the 2009/10.
My coworker had a 2008 GS and it didn't have power windows/... nice to see the price is lower for the 2009s and power windows/... have been added.

yeah they upped the price too.

It's a strategy thing we'll see how it pans out. The middle grade is quite well priced (the grade with power group but no fat alloys and navi)

Pride is great but it's time they looked down from over their heads and think what is there to be proud of for cars to come....

Also I'd like to mention that the interior problem of domestic cars is not really that they are cheap - with all sorts of recycling laws most cars have cheap ass plastics interior, but in US cars you are more likely to find small nuiances that just annoys the hell out of you. For example, I can't recline my seat in the Cobalt without opening the door, when the handbrake is down on the Focus it's resting on the seat cushion..... If cars are softwares I feel like buying an open-beta car if I buy domestic, and a fully tested software if I buy imports. For Europeans it's more like buying a subscription and you have to get "firmware updates" every now and then.

But public beta is usually free, and people are not that willing to pay for them, this pretty much is what people are thinking.

Problem Fucken solved:
http://www.carcomplaints.com/

thats the mainsite

heres the cars now tell me how many are domestic and how many are imports?
below are the worst:

http://www.carcomplaints.com/worst_complaints.shtml

http://www.carcomplaints.com/top_vehicles.shtml


why would you get something with bad rep?

END THREAD!

I dunno, I'd still pay more for a BMW/Merc/Audi. Either I buy another Euro or I dun buy 1 at all. For me, a car is a statement. It's an extension of who I am. Therefore, I wouldnt buy a domestic just cuz it's a couple of grand cheaper.

For example. I understand full well that a CTS is as good of a car as a 5 series but significantly cheaper. Yet I still won't buy a CTS cuz I'd rather have a BMW. We spend so much time each day in a car and I think it's important to really like wut u drive cuz u'r gonna be stuck with it for a long time.

stupid thread its so obvious why. all about money and what your uses are.

hahahahaha that taylor kid got pwnt


thats what i thot.

How so?

The only kid here is you, the one that cannot type a proper sentence. Did mommy buy your car too? Ask her to type your posts as well.

partially agree with this. id get euro cause they are more enjoyable to drive. why waste money (even if its 10k cheaper its still a waste) on something you wont enjoy

Umm, you're over simplifying it a bit. That site is great to see what the common complaints on a particular make & model are, but you shouldn't use it to gauge reliability, because you don't know how many are sold vs the other vehicles of similar make/model/year. Data is useless if you don't know how to interpret it.

There are definately some vehicles that are more problematic than others, but that doesn't mean the brand sucks either. There's a civic and accord on that list too - I highly doubt anyone on here would agree they are shitty cars just because they made the list.

Only if your mindset is everyone drives an Acura/Lexus/Audi/BMW/... despite what you think, that's only a small fragment of the population.

There was a thread about "How do people get so rich in Vancouver" http://www.revscene.net/forums/do-pe....html?t=566835
Conclusion: only a few are rich, we just notice them more often.

Most people drive a Corolla, Civic, Camry, Cavalier, Focus, Yaris, ... daily drivers that aren't exactly high on style, and more about practical reliable transportation. The question is why do more Vancouverites choose Asian brands over domestic?

That site sucks, there's only 1 year of C230s on it, and the C230 has been around for a decade. Any site with that low of volume cannot be statistically trusted.

JD Powers is a better gauge, yet I gave up after reading that Hummer gets ranked poorly for quality cause people complain about the gas mileage! WTF! You buy a Hummer you don't get to complain about gas mileage!

Yup, carcomplaints.com sucks. You are better off with JD Power but they're also known to be bias at times.

The Celica... then they kinda went downhill when Toyota changed it to FWD... Toyota did at one time build products I would buy, in the 90's they had 3 sports cars (Alltrac, MR2, Supra) in their lineup not counting the Lexus SC.

There's a lot of misconception in this thread, the Vibe and Matrix have similar resale prices and domestics don't do fleet sales to rental companies anymore (the past 3-4 years I rented a car, I was given a Camry, Hyundai, Volvo and an X3). Since GM has pulled out of rental cars, Toyota has taken over that spot, go have a look at the cars that Hertz has to offer, take a drive to the airport car rentals and see for yourself. I'm taking a drive to California next month and I hope I get the Chevy Malibu that I booked instead of another Camry. I just want to see how GM has improved cuz I could tell how Toyota has cut corners. In a Camry with 300kms, I can see parts of the dash starting to peel up, parts of the interior just seem unfinished, etc...

a couple of bad apples in 1 brand does not mean much. But to ignore the models made by the brand itself. Ignorance. <<-------- that you just proved it yourself by saying " There's a civic and accord on that list too" I'm not saying that the particular brand who make the different models is list of shit cars. I'm saying generally do you wanna buy something that is known to have a bad rep???either way when you buy a car your gona have this stuff in the back of your mind, right? example, If you were one day told to choose between the two brands, which would you choose Chinese vs Other Brand?WE THRIVE ON NEGATIVITY and human nature to just avoid trouble in the future.
Personally i like some Ford cars and some chevys but they just have a bad rep and the facts show it .

Why?? reliability spreads the WORD which equals to good rep and reviews, which results in more sales.

I couldn't care less where my vehicle is made or whether it's domestic or imported.

I care about getting the best overall value for my dollar.

But then car companies try to play off of that presumed reliability (again, I bring up the point of GM doing this in the past and Toyota's current downward quality trend), even when it's not deserved.

Exactly, and we're in a capitalist society. Sink or swim guys!

It's not like any of the companies are Canadian either.

My first brand new vehicle I bought last year was a Jeep, but it had nothing to do with domestic or import or anything like that. They had the best vehicle for what I needed, at the best price.

Haha I actually don't have anything against GM either, I just couldn't help but post it cause the opportunity arose :haha:

i have no loyalty towards the US/Canadian auto industry. there i've said it. What I really mean is that I will not buy anything designed for or built specifically for the north american market. So obviously almost all of the GM, chrysler, ford products. I will also never buy the US only imports for example, newer toyota camry, US only honda accord, bmw x5. you get the picture. I dont hate gm, chrysler, ford at all. i would love to have to have a g8 gxp (holden commodore hsv), an euro ford cosworth escort (closest thing is a merkur xr4ti), or a dodge sprinter van (mercedes made) for hauling stuff. i think the arguement is not import or domestics. but whether or not manufacturers from all over the globe are supplying the us/canadian market with what they really want.

GM and Ford are just as reliable lately, and if you visit Ontario or eastern Canada you'll find domestics outnumber imports.

Toyota just barely had more worldwide sales than GM, and that's with Japanese protectionism preventing GM sales there.

So why do imports outnumber domestics so much in this city? The answer is simple: immigrants. The same people that cheer for their own countries rather than Canada at the Olympics also buy cars not made in North America. Toyota and Honda may build cars here, yet GM and Ford put Ontario cities on the map and have done far more for our country for far longer.

I dunno how you came to that conclusion when you don't see the same phenomenon in other big immigrant cities like San Francisco. The numbers don't even add up. According to Wikipedia, eastern and southeaster asians are the biggest visible minority group in Vancouver but they only make up roughly 1/4 the population, are you saying 1/4 the population makes up more than 50% of the car buying population? FYI, the majority of Vancouver's immigrants are from.... Europe..

Find me a domestic car that actually competes with a BMW or an Audi and I will consider it.

2008 car of the year Cadillac CTS-V?

http://image.motortrend.com/f/821394...river_side.jpg

You really can't say they can't build a decent interior anymore