Audi vs. BMW - The LA Billboard War

[R8]

It looks photoshopped =/... do they really have that much time?

[jeff_alexander]

Originally Posted by fetched

R8 looks better than any production BMW.

R8 looks like a hyped up TT

[Kang19]

Originally Posted by jeff_alexander

R8 looks like a hyped up TT

...............................................?.. ......................................

[R8]

I am not a hyped up TT, stop talking about me.

[ericthehalfbee]

Audi's comeback is 10+ straight years of sales increases taking them from a has-been third place manufacturer selling less than half the cars that BMW and Mercedes sell to a position where they will soon be passing BMW and Mercedes for total sales.

The numbers speak for themselves, who cares what billboards say?

[asian_XL]

WAR? HAHAHAHA, whatever you like to think, kids.
Talking about free advertising. I have seen the first pictures on many forums. These
marketing guys behind this are fucking smart. Not only people from So Cal see this, but
everybody on the internet is discussing about this. Mercedes must feel being left out.

[RRxtar]

according to me, the R8 is one of the absolute best looking cars on the road today for under $200k. only very slightly behind the AM Vantage

[Ludepower]

Originally Posted by ericthehalfbee

Audi's comeback is 10+ straight years of sales increases taking them from a has-been third place manufacturer selling less than half the cars that BMW and Mercedes sell to a position where they will soon be passing BMW and Mercedes for total sales.

The numbers speak for themselves, who cares what billboards say?

Very true.

Design wise...how long can Audi keep the A4 design going? Modest changes over the years will not appeal to new customers.

[old240]

R8 is the best looking, and definitely the best driving exotic under 200k

[Leopold Stotch]

Originally Posted by RRxtar

according to me, the R8 is one of the absolute best looking cars on the road today for under $200k. only very slightly behind the AM Vantage

i agree, but the Vantage definitely isn't as eye-popping-attention-grabbing as the R8.

[Z3guy]

Originally Posted by ericthehalfbee

Audi's comeback is 10+ straight years of sales increases taking them from a has-been third place manufacturer selling less than half the cars that BMW and Mercedes sell to a position where they will soon be passing BMW and Mercedes for total sales.

The numbers speak for themselves, who cares what billboards say?

Ahhhh....I guess you are too young to remember when Audi pulled out of the NA market in the 80s...sudden acceleration lawsuits ring a bell?

btw, get your stats right, Audi has ten straight yrs of growth because they had no sales before they launched the 96 redesigned A4. BMW has also 10yrs of straight growth from a much more established base. It is much easier to get 10% growth when you are selling 10 cars a year Vs 10% growth when you are selling 10,000 cars per yr.

Audi's are basically reworked VWs with nicer interiors, design, etc, however they are VWs underneath. BMW does not have to make compromises because they are privately owned and do not have to share platforms with other brands.

Buy Audi's for their brillant exterior and interior design, but not their driving dynamics

Buy BMW for their driving dynamics, not interior design

[Supafly]

Originally Posted by fetched

S4 < M3
TTS > SLK 55
S5 > CLK 63
S8 < S63
A3 > B Class
etc
You need to drive an Audi to appreciate the car.

correction here...

CLK63 BS > Audio R8 and the S5
CL65/S65 > S8

you missed some of the cars...

You need to drive an Audi to appreciate the car.

Then you haven't sat in a MB or BMW. I own a few newer generation BMWs and Benz's and I can honestly say Audi cannot compete with interior design/comfort.

[fetched]

Originally Posted by Supafly

correction here...

CLK63 BS > Audio R8 and the S5
CL65/S65 > S8

you missed some of the cars...




Then you haven't sat in a MB or BMW. I own a few newer generation BMWs and Benz's and I can honestly say Audi cannot compete with interior design/comfort.

LOL.
Price=Price much?
CLK63BS > S5? Of course? Most CLK63BS cost a lot more than R8? like 60g more? Not available in Canada? Yes?
Okay, first off, the comparison thing. If you didn't realize, i said the S63 was better than S8, so of course S65 is better. CL65 is a coupe,why would you put them in the same category as the S Class/ A8s. Audi doesn't have a director competitor for that kind of Luxury Coupe besides R8 which is more geared as a Sport Coupe.

I have owned a few generations of BMW and Audis as well, and sat in countless mercedes, and don't know what the fuck is wrong with you when you say audi cannot compete with the interior/comfort. If you don't believe me, go read every single magazine, performance wise, okay Audi still needs some work on that category. But when you talk about interior? Every single magazine that has done a heads up against any competitor will tell you how great/luxury the Audi compartment is. When i was in the E90post community, a lot of people hated their shitty interiors, coming from BMW Ethusiasts. That never happens on Audizine. YEE?

[fetched]

Originally Posted by Z3guy

Ahhhh....I guess you are too young to remember when Audi pulled out of the NA market in the 80s...sudden acceleration lawsuits ring a bell?

btw, get your stats right, Audi has ten straight yrs of growth because they had no sales before they launched the 96 redesigned A4. BMW has also 10yrs of straight growth from a much more established base. It is much easier to get 10% growth when you are selling 10 cars a year Vs 10% growth when you are selling 10,000 cars per yr.

Audi's are basically reworked VWs with nicer interiors, design, etc, however they are VWs underneath. BMW does not have to make compromises because they are privately owned and do not have to share platforms with other brands.

Buy Audi's for their brillant exterior and interior design, but not their driving dynamics

Buy BMW for their driving dynamics, not interior design

Since you are talking about the NA Market, lez talkz.
Audi never really shared the same platform as the C Class/3 Series. One reason was because they never advertised in the NA market until a year ago. People like you perceive how Audi = VW, will believe that Mercedes = Chrysler, So wrong. So Porsche = Audi then?
Only recently did Audi become a mainstream brand with more recognition. Audi does not share any platform with VW, every new technology that comes out are put into Audi first, like the new 2.0 TFSI, Drive Select, LED,etc. Even VW's 4motion is different from most of Audi's Quattro. Haldex vs. Quattro.
BMW is a prestige brand non the less, but always regarded the same in Europe as with Mercedes through volume of sales. The NA market needs another 10 years before they can become familiar with the Audi brand.

[Ludepower]

Originally Posted by Z3guy

Ahhhh....I guess you are too young to remember when Audi pulled out of the NA market in the 80s...sudden acceleration lawsuits ring a bell?

btw, get your stats right, Audi has ten straight yrs of growth because they had no sales before they launched the 96 redesigned A4. BMW has also 10yrs of straight growth from a much more established base. It is much easier to get 10% growth when you are selling 10 cars a year Vs 10% growth when you are selling 10,000 cars per yr.

Why are you discrediting Audi's number? You should get your stats right... Worldwide sales...Audi is on pace to take top spot from BMW in 2010.

Originally Posted by Supafly

correction here...

CLK63 BS > Audio R8 and the S5
CL65/S65 > S8

you missed some of the cars...


Then you haven't sat in a MB or BMW. I own a few newer generation BMWs and Benz's and I can honestly say Audi cannot compete with interior design/comfort.

Why the need to compare these cars? They're all basically equal on paper in every category...it's personal preference to brand and design. People who buy these cars dunno much about the specs anyways.

Coming from a guy who thinks Audi is a wannabe of the MB and Mercedez...I can honestly say they got the best interior out of the 3.

Design - Mercedez
Driving - BMW
Interior - Audi

[ericthehalfbee]

Originally Posted by Z3guy

Ahhhh....I guess you are too young to remember when Audi pulled out of the NA market in the 80s...sudden acceleration lawsuits ring a bell?

btw, get your stats right, Audi has ten straight yrs of growth because they had no sales before they launched the 96 redesigned A4. BMW has also 10yrs of straight growth from a much more established base. It is much easier to get 10% growth when you are selling 10 cars a year Vs 10% growth when you are selling 10,000 cars per yr.

Audi's are basically reworked VWs with nicer interiors, design, etc, however they are VWs underneath. BMW does not have to make compromises because they are privately owned and do not have to share platforms with other brands.

Buy Audi's for their brillant exterior and interior design, but not their driving dynamics

Buy BMW for their driving dynamics, not interior design

I remember the Audi 5000 quite well.

And you're the one with the screwed up facts. Audi never pulled out of the NA market. I'd love to know where you got that stupid idea from. Probably the same place your other "facts" came from.

NA only accounts for a small percentage of total Audi worldwide sales. Audi never suffered problems related to the sudden accelation issue in Europe, where people over there know how to drive a car with closely placed pedals designed for heel/toe.

Audis are not reworked VW's. VW's are stripped down Audis. There's a clear difference, which you apparently can't understand. The reason VW has such excellent interiors is the work Audi spent on their cars, which has "trickled down" to VW.

Audi will pass Mercedes this year for total worldwide sales. BMW is expected to be taken over a couple years later. Please tell me how you can say Audi "had no sales" when they are on the verge of taking over the #1 sales spot from BMW in the luxury car market?

I bet someone like you, who is an obvious BMW fan, hates the fact BMW will soon be #2 to Audi's #1.

[ilvtofu]

lol just look at his username XD!!!

whats wrong with being a VW underneath, VW sells gazillions of cars every year based on excellent reputation, I don't see why he's complaining that audis are vws underneath...

[RabidRat]

Originally Posted by ericthehalfbee

Audis are not reworked VW's. VW's are stripped down Audis. There's a clear difference, which you apparently can't understand. The reason VW has such excellent interiors is the work Audi spent on their cars, which has "trickled down" to VW.

What about the fact that the Audi TT, TTS, and TT RS, a high performance vehicle (or at least one that is marketed as such), has a transverse engine layout and is forced to use a cheapie Haldex front-biased on-demand AWD instead of proper Quattro as an unfortunate result? Is it a coincidence that it's built on the Mk5 Golf platform?

edit: no offense intended, I'm just honestly curious to hear your perspective on this.

[dogeatcookie]

Originally Posted by RabidRat

What about the fact that the Audi TT, TTS, and TT RS, a high performance vehicle (or at least one that is marketed as such), has a transverse engine layout and is forced to use a cheapie Haldex front-biased on-demand AWD instead of proper Quattro as an unfortunate result? Is it a coincidence that it's built on the Mk5 Golf platform?

edit: no offense intended, I'm just honestly curious to hear your perspective on this.

it's true that TT is based on haldex, but you forgot to mention that TT's aluminum body which most car manufactures don't dare to touch because of the high cost, the magnetic ride suspension which transforms the car's handling and ride quality in matter of milliseconds, and one of the first dual clutch transmissions in a car less than 50k. Of course these technologies are no longer special but the TT was one of the few car's that had it 2 years ago. Haldex is not a cheap AWD in anyway as BMW's xdrive almost acts the same way. Haldex is a 85/15 lay out but it can put 100% to front and rear as needed.
It's probably the same chasis because of the cost saving, you have to know that TT's sale volume is one of the lowest in the Audi brand. O wells

[ericthehalfbee]

Originally Posted by RabidRat

What about the fact that the Audi TT, TTS, and TT RS, a high performance vehicle (or at least one that is marketed as such), has a transverse engine layout and is forced to use a cheapie Haldex front-biased on-demand AWD instead of proper Quattro as an unfortunate result? Is it a coincidence that it's built on the Mk5 Golf platform?

edit: no offense intended, I'm just honestly curious to hear your perspective on this.

Sure they share parts - all manufacturers do. But they're not the same cars.

As already mentioned, the TT uses a significant amount of aluminum in the chassis (69% of the space frame is aluminum). The MK V has no aluminum whatsoever. That's not taking a car and adding a few bits to make a new car - that's ground-up engineering.

Speaking of aluminum, when the A4 came out the Passat hadn't yet been based off the A4 platform. When the new Passat followed using the same chassis as the A4, a lot of the parts that were aluminum in the A4 (like suspension) were changed to steel in the Passat. The Passat was a downgraded A4 - the A4 wasn't an upgraded Passat as Z3guy is suggesting.

The 1.8T engine (a great engine that's won numerous engine of the year awards) first appeared in Audi vehicles, and showed up in VW's later on. Again, it's technology trickling down from Audi to VW.

If you want to see a car that's just a re-badged and slightly improved version of a cheaper car, then look at a Lexus ES/Camry. On the hoist you can't tell these two cars apart. Unlike the Passat/A4 example, there's no difference in the vehicles underlying chassis. No expensive aluminum parts on the Lexus or anything.



Still waiting for Z3guys expert opinion on the construction of VW's and Audis.

[Z3guy]

Originally Posted by fetched

Since you are talking about the NA Market, lez talkz.
Audi never really shared the same platform as the C Class/3 Series. One reason was because they never advertised in the NA market until a year ago. People like you perceive how Audi = VW, will believe that Mercedes = Chrysler, So wrong. So Porsche = Audi then?
Only recently did Audi become a mainstream brand with more recognition. Audi does not share any platform with VW, every new technology that comes out are put into Audi first, like the new 2.0 TFSI, Drive Select, LED,etc. Even VW's 4motion is different from most of Audi's Quattro. Haldex vs. Quattro.
BMW is a prestige brand non the less, but always regarded the same in Europe as with Mercedes through volume of sales. The NA market needs another 10 years before they can become familiar with the Audi brand.

So the A3 is not a stretched Golf chassis? the 1.8L & 2.0L turbos are only used on Audis right? wasn't the DSG tranny launched on the GTI? Although Porsche is the majority owner of VW/Audi, they share no parts. C'mon man, any smart profit focus parent company will be sharing components, drivetrains, and platforms between VW/Audi. Have you seen the latest VW diesel 2 door convertible sports car? Looks a diesel powered Boxter to me. Hmmmm, seems like both cars you can't access the engine compartment?....must be a fluke.

[Z3guy]

Originally Posted by ericthehalfbee

I remember the Audi 5000 quite well.

And you're the one with the screwed up facts. Audi never pulled out of the NA market. I'd love to know where you got that stupid idea from. Probably the same place your other "facts" came from.

NA only accounts for a small percentage of total Audi worldwide sales. Audi never suffered problems related to the sudden accelation issue in Europe, where people over there know how to drive a car with closely placed pedals designed for heel/toe.

Audis are not reworked VW's. VW's are stripped down Audis. There's a clear difference, which you apparently can't understand. The reason VW has such excellent interiors is the work Audi spent on their cars, which has "trickled down" to VW.

Audi will pass Mercedes this year for total worldwide sales. BMW is expected to be taken over a couple years later. Please tell me how you can say Audi "had no sales" when they are on the verge of taking over the #1 sales spot from BMW in the luxury car market?

I bet someone like you, who is an obvious BMW fan, hates the fact BMW will soon be #2 to Audi's #1.

Buddy, how many Audi's did they sell per yr in the 80s? they were selling less than 1000 cars per yr. I guess having 0.1% marketshare is not pulling out.

Sure VWs are stripped downed Audis....however the engine mounting pts, interiors, the guts are the same.......I love how all you Audi guys say VWs uses trickled down Audi technology.....I guess the 1.8L & 2.0 Turbos...tricked down to VW right?

Do you live in Europe? last time I checked we are talking about NA.

The only reason Audi is passing Mercedes is because Mercs sales are down drastically. However you don't take volume to the bank, you take profits.....who cares Audi sells allot of cheap A3s and A4s. How many A6s and A8 do they sell?

I love when when Audi fanboys say...."well Audi will pass BMW sales in a few yrs"....bottomline, enjoy driving your understeering dressed up VW. Also have fun when you sell your car for 30% of the value in 3 yrs.

I wonder why VW/Audi share dealerships for sales/service? HmMMMMMM

Keep telling yourself Audi is a great car and I made the right decision

[Supafly]

Originally Posted by fetched

LOL.


If you don't believe me, go read every single magazine, performance wise, okay Audi still needs some work on that category. But when you talk about interior? Every single magazine that has done a heads up against any competitor will tell you how great/luxury the Audi compartment is.

i agree with you on the first bit, i didn't see you >><< ...got confused....but..

haha rattle your cage much?....you my friend need to take a load off..

When did you last sit in a bmw/benz?...10yrs ago?..when your dad owned them?

Read magazines?...guy, give me a break, i own them; i don't read magazine hype about cars...again, I OWN them...
Audi interior is pretty darn cheap compared to upper level BMW/Mercedes (7 series,S-class, CL-class)...if you don't believe me, I'll offer you to come to my house and sit in my cars, then go to an audi dealership and sit in their cars...

you make me laugh.

[Chuck Norris]

Originally Posted by Eastwood

I don't think so. There's more BMW's in every European country compared to any other luxury car. I'm basing this on what I've seen when I back-packed Europe.

There are more civics here than Audi's, what's your point?

[RabidRat]

Originally Posted by ericthehalfbee

Sure they share parts - all manufacturers do. But they're not the same cars.

As already mentioned, the TT uses a significant amount of aluminum in the chassis (69% of the space frame is aluminum). The MK V has no aluminum whatsoever. That's not taking a car and adding a few bits to make a new car - that's ground-up engineering.

Speaking of aluminum, when the A4 came out the Passat hadn't yet been based off the A4 platform. When the new Passat followed using the same chassis as the A4, a lot of the parts that were aluminum in the A4 (like suspension) were changed to steel in the Passat. The Passat was a downgraded A4 - the A4 wasn't an upgraded Passat as Z3guy is suggesting.

The 1.8T engine (a great engine that's won numerous engine of the year awards) first appeared in Audi vehicles, and showed up in VW's later on. Again, it's technology trickling down from Audi to VW.

If you want to see a car that's just a re-badged and slightly improved version of a cheaper car, then look at a Lexus ES/Camry. On the hoist you can't tell these two cars apart. Unlike the Passat/A4 example, there's no difference in the vehicles underlying chassis. No expensive aluminum parts on the Lexus or anything.

The above is all true and I agree, but it doesn't quite address my original point: When the platform the TT is on had to be shared with an economy/practical-oriented Golf, there had to be some fundamental decisions made with the platform's design in order to make the Golf still economical and practical right? And one of these sacrifices was having to settle with a transverse engine layout, which meant having to settle with the inferior Haldex. Or at the very least, not Audi's first choice, because you don't see the Haldex system in the S4, do you?

It's a similar story with the A3 isn't it? Same Golf platform, same drawbacks, same "Quattro"? Imo the A3 is acceptable as an entry level Audi, but the case of the TT, especially when the TTS and the TT RS are built on it, seems disappointing.

So while it might not be quite fair to say that these Audis are upgraded VW's, this case just begs the question of whether in general, you're always going to be settling on a compromise that VW and Audi decide on. It seems doubtful that you'd get this kind of thing with BMW, where they don't have to think about making their platforms compatible with economy counterparts.