Official 2009/2010 Canucks Thread

[d1]

Originally Posted by AzNightmare

Keeping Luongo is important I think. I want the cup now. Every year it seems like the next season(or few seasons to come) will be good because of prospects... but it never seems to happen.

Umm.. I don't remember a time in recent memory where I thought a season would rock because of a prospect. Only recently (Hodgson, Schroeder) have I thought of what could be in the next few years.

[!Nhan]

Originally Posted by 89blkcivic

Wow, overreact or what?

What do you not understand about someone saying he's not god like or he is overrated? Is there no in between being shitty and god-like? Nobody is saying he is a bad goaltender. He is great, but not the best there ever was (not yet anyway).

And don't use the fucking word, "Bandwagoner." Ever. Most of the people here are pretty hard core. You say this stuff because you have others to back you up? I have respect for guys like Soundy, Hondaracer, CRS, Noir, Nodnarb, and the others who post in here with their VIEWS.

Get off his dick? You gay or something? Most peole say get of his back or get off his case........... get off his dick? WOW!!!!!!

I'm not over reacting to anything. I'm simply trying to say to people that they should just give him a break. Yes maybe i used the word "bandwagoner" a bit too losely and I apologize for that, but the fact of the matter is, like I said if we had won the cup this year would there even be this discussion about how he's doing or how much he's getting paid for? Yes I do agree with people when they say he doesn't deserve 8 mill a year. Is he worth that much? No I don't think so, afterall he is a goaltender and theres only so much he can do.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone here and I apologize if I may have said things to offend people. I just want people to relax and look at the things from the other side if things went better for us this past spring.

[goo3]

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

Hondaracer, if we traded away Lu for say 5 first round picks and brought up Schnider, with the additional 7M in cap space, you don't think we can sign one or 2 players that would make a difference on the current team? Even if we only got 3 first round picks, that is a lot of potenital players that will could keep the team very competitive for years to come.

Look at Cam Ward. His stanley cup wins came with him as a rookie who had shown how good he could be in the world juniors. LAst year and this past year, Osgood was only making $1.45M and $1.1M respectively.

AHL => NHL starter is a big gap. Carolina fluked out with Ward that year. Don't forget that Gerber was their starter all season until Ward got hot in the playoffs. Young goalies take a few years to become consistently good (ie Ward, Price, Fleury) so it's a bit much to throw Schneider into the fire and expect anything better than even *laugh* Huet. Any trade involving Luongo needs a starter in return.

Let's see, one mental slip in game 5 against the ducks let Scott Neidimeyer score from the blue line with a simple dump in.
Oh wait, 7 goals against the hawks?

Luongo's been in the playoffs twice. Both those examples are from both his elimination games. That's pretty selective memory!

2007: He won the Dallas series hands down. I believe the God-mode term came out around this time. That Anaheim game was double OT, and he stopped like 50 shots. He had an incredible year.

2009: He got picked apart in an important game and never stole any games that mattered. He had a solid year, esp in the regular season and 1st round, but not great. He quietly posted ~8 shutouts somehow even w/ the injury.

Or maybe he isn't as good as everyone thinks he is. Positionally he is sound, and he does have a reputation that would make every average player grip their sticks just a little harder trying to pick those corners, but we have seen that he is weak playing the puck, not as strong in the shoot outs.

I think everybody can pretty much agree his last 2 yrs haven't been up to his superhuman standards. But I find some of his critics to be the 'grass is greener' and the 'what have you done for me lately' impulsive types when they don't see Michael Jordan hilite reel-type of perfection. For sure he's got holes in his game that need improvement. And he needs to up his playoff performance back to 2007 levels. But 'overrated' means either he's not an elite goalie or ppl's expectations (only in Vancouver) have nothing to do with real life.

[ChaKo]

Originally Posted by !nhan

I'm not over reacting to anything. I'm simply trying to say to people that they should just give him a break. Yes maybe i used the word "bandwagoner" a bit too losely and I apologize for that, but the fact of the matter is, like I said if we had won the cup this year would there even be this discussion about how he's doing or how much he's getting paid for? Yes I do agree with people when they say he doesn't deserve 8 mill a year. Is he worth that much? No I don't think so, afterall he is a goaltender and theres only so much he can do.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone here and I apologize if I may have said things to offend people. I just want people to relax and look at the things from the other side if things went better for us this past spring.

obviously not. i think that's part of the criteria for a player in his position, whether it is to gauge his success or determine his salary. that's like saying there wouldn't have been a need for wellwood to go to arbitration if he had scored 10 more goals. luongo is a great goalie and all, but for you to come out and essentially say some of us wouldn't be criticizing him if he did his job better is a little redundant.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by AzNightmare

If Luongo is gone and Schneider plays, I don't think Canucks will get far this year. I don't really think that sacrifice is worth it... But we'll see how much Lu asks for anyway.

That's arguable I believe. Losing Luongo also means opening up that much room for an acquisition. The measure of how well a trade-off is depends on WHO is being acquired; considering that if the franchise chooses to run with Schneider, he'll be doing so at an Entry Level Contract.

Considering an $8+ million price tag, that'll net you the talent the likes of Crosby, Lecavalier, Malkin, etc depending on who's up on availability. So it's really more of a gamble than a sacrifice; and of course, the measure of the gamble depends on who is being acquired in return.

[MR_BIGGS]

Which came first the chicken...i mean the cup or the 8 million?

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by goo3

AHL => NHL starter is a big gap. Carolina fluked out with Ward that year. Don't forget that Gerber was their starter all season until Ward got hot in the playoffs. Young goalies take a few years to become consistently good (ie Ward, Price, Fleury) so it's a bit much to throw Schneider into the fire and expect anything better than even *laugh* Huet. Any trade involving Luongo needs a starter in return.

Don't forget, that year the Canes finished second in the east, 112 pts compared to Ottawa's 113 pts. They were tied for 4th in the league, so the team in front of their goalie is pretty solid. I wouldn't say the Canes fluked out with Ward. You also gotta remember that not too many players had played against Ward when he came into the playoffs so not too many people knew his weaknesses, just like how strong Steve Mason was this past season.

Price is another example of a goalie who no one knew in the first year, yet the second year they finally got a read on him and was able to beat him on his weaknesses.

Another thing to consider is that Schnider is 24-25 years old. He is gonna want a chance in the NHL, either with the Nucks or he will ask for a trade. His trade value will go up if he is allowed to play and shows his ability to play in the NHL. If the Nucks do sign Lu to a long term contract, then you will have to play Schnider to get a decent trade.

Luongo's been in the playoffs twice. Both those examples are from both his elimination games. That's pretty selective memory!

2007: He won the Dallas series hands down. I believe the God-mode term came out around this time. That Anaheim game was double OT, and he stopped like 50 shots. He had an incredible year.

2009: He got picked apart in an important game and never stole any games that mattered. He had a solid year, esp in the regular season and 1st round, but not great. He quietly posted ~8 shutouts somehow even w/ the injury.

Nothing wrong with my memory. My point was that as superhuman as he was, he is still not unbeatable. The losses to the Ducks was because the team in front of him couldn't put the puck in the net.
The team that lost to the Hawks was a team that could put the puck in the net, but the D and Lu couldn't keep the puck out of their own net.

Of Lu's 8 shutouts, how many of them was with an injury plagued D? As long as all of the regular D men are healthy, and they learn to stay out of the box, even Huet would look like an all-star in net. This isn't a matter of opinion, but a fact about the caliber of play in the NHL.

I think everybody can pretty much agree his last 2 yrs haven't been up to his superhuman standards. But I find some of his critics to be the 'grass is greener' and the 'what have you done for me lately' impulsive types when they don't see Michael Jordan hilite reel-type of perfection. For sure he's got holes in his game that need improvement. And he needs to up his playoff performance back to 2007 levels. But 'overrated' means either he's not an elite goalie or ppl's expectations (only in Vancouver) have nothing to do with real life.

Expectations (in Vancouver) is all a matter of people's opinions. Having not won a cup, people are getting antsy. The 94-95 team didn't have top 5 goalie, but a goalie who was able to raise to the occasion and make those big stops. That team also had enough offence that made all forward lines a threat, on the PP or shorthanded.
Roy and Brouder might have carried the teams on their shoulders, but their teams were still able to put the puck into the net.
Just like the Oilers that went from 8th place in the west, to making the cup finals, they had great goaltending from Rolston, but their team was also able to shut down the other team's all-star forwards and put a couple of pucks into the net at the same time.

If Lu can bring the cup to Vancouver, that should shut all the critics. As long as he plays well 99% of the time, and plays sub par in the games that end the season, people will always say he is over rated. As it stands, I still think he is overrated for $8M. I wouldn't have as much of a beef if his hit on the cap is $5M or less.

[stuff99]

Hey did you guys remember a time when we had a crazy high scoring team with a mediocore goalie in net? We figured we can ride the offensive waive cause we put up crazy regular seasons only to see a big choke in the playoffs, and thus we all wanted a goalie of Luongo's calibre?

Yah those were the Cloutier years.

[quasi]

Originally Posted by stuff99

Hey did you guys remember a time when we had a crazy high scoring team with a mediocore goalie in net? We figured we can ride the offensive waive cause we put up crazy regular seasons only to see a big choke in the playoffs, and thus we all wanted a goalie of Luongo's calibre?

Yah those were the Cloutier years.

Yup, arguably best the number one line in hockey at the time and we didn't go anywhere.

[CRS]

Congratulations Everyone.

You have all made RS into CDC. Now, you can go and hang yourself.

[CRS]

The agent for Cody Hodgson had lunch with his client on Friday in Toronto and said all is well with the Vancouver Canucks' top prospect.

Player agent Don Meehan said Hodgson is back to doing off-ice workouts after a back injury suffered in mid-july that has kept him off skates since then. Meehan said Hodgson, who the Canucks drafted 10th overall in the 2008 NHL Entry Draft, is recovering well and will be ready to go at the opening of Vancouver's rookie camp on Sept. 7 at University of B.C.

Looks like Hodgson will be good for training camp. Glad he got some rest.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/thewire/hock...son_puts_back/

[LsquareD]

^ Awesome!

[Hondaracer]

Someone quote this, Luongo is -not- going to be getting 8 million a year if he signs an extension and anyone who thinks that is a moron, mike gillis nor luongo will be that stupid to sign a deal like that, it won't happen period

[d1]

Originally Posted by stuff99

Hey did you guys remember a time when we had a crazy high scoring team with a mediocore goalie in net? We figured we can ride the offensive waive cause we put up crazy regular seasons only to see a big choke in the playoffs, and thus we all wanted a goalie of Luongo's calibre?

Yah those were the Cloutier years.

How far did that team get in the playoffs? 2nd round exit.
How far has our current team with the "best goaltender in the world" gotten? 2nd round.

[murd0c]

Teams are built not bought. Adding a couple huge names in the offseason or trade deadline
Make a impact yes but for a team to go somewhere and stay at the top you need to build
It from the bottom up. Don't rush the draft picks lay a foundation then you will see a big improvment
What gillis is doing. Like like tetris you need all the right pieces to fill the holes in order to win.

Once you have the foundation you can go out and get the big name players which will fill the void.
No matter which way you look at it this year is going to be interesting but I personally feel they
Are still a couple years away from making a dent in the playoffs. Don't get me wrong I want
Them to rip it up so bad but right now there's just way to many intangibles that make me think that.

Then again the changes made might be a enough they might gel great this year and have a
Great push. Fuck I can't wait until the season starts!!!

[Noir]

Originally Posted by murd0c

Teams are built not bought. Adding a couple huge names in the offseason or trade deadline
Make a impact yes but for a team to go somewhere and stay at the top you need to build
It from the bottom up. Don't rush the draft picks lay a foundation then you will see a big improvment
What gillis is doing. Like like tetris you need all the right pieces to fill the holes in order to win.

Once you have the foundation you can go out and get the big name players which will fill the void.
No matter which way you look at it this year is going to be interesting but I personally feel they
Are still a couple years away from making a dent in the playoffs. Don't get me wrong I want
Them to rip it up so bad but right now there's just way to many intangibles that make me think that.

Then again the changes made might be a enough they might gel great this year and have a
Great push. Fuck I can't wait until the season starts!!!

100% true.

This is exactly the reason why I hate the current set up of the league. It's like it almost pays off to tank a stretch of seasons. The less your team achieves, the more you're rewarded.

[Expresso]

It's not fair to judge until you give Lu the same chance Cloutier has gotten. Clouts played for about 5 years, once the Lu era is over is when you can give an honest assessment.

Originally Posted by d1

How far did that team get in the playoffs? 2nd round exit.
How far has our current team with the "best goaltender in the world" gotten? 2nd round.

I'm sure the Cap hit will be lower than 8, but it'll probably be long term and front loaded like every other super contract we've seen. Funny to think NYI was one of the first teams in recent memory to sign someone really long term haha.

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Someone quote this, Luongo is -not- going to be getting 8 million a year if he signs an extension and anyone who thinks that is a moron, mike gillis nor luongo will be that stupid to sign a deal like that, it won't happen period

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by HachiSix

I'm sure the Cap hit will be lower than 8, but it'll probably be long term and front loaded like every other super contract we've seen.

Then the problem is what are they going to do with Schnider? He is going to be nearing the end of his entry level contract. If Lu is signed long term, and Schnider hasn't played much, his trade value is low.
And this season, they already have a backup on Raycroft so it looks like he will be playing on the Moose again.

[Harvey Specter]

With the season right around the corner is anyone concerned about the long road trip we have from Jan into March? That long road trip imo will make or break our season.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Someone quote this, Luongo is -not- going to be getting 8 million a year if he signs an extension and anyone who thinks that is a moron, mike gillis nor luongo will be that stupid to sign a deal like that, it won't happen period

$8 million may be the starting point of his negotiation but considering he's already making close to $7 million doesn't necessarily mean there's going to be a significant deviation to his asking cost. At least not significant a deviation enough that will leave room for another high-value player instead of another 3rd or 4th line plug.

$8M is just a generalization of Luongo's upcoming contract. So becareful before you label others as morons before the favour is returned. Again. You don't want to start this so keep your condescending attitude in check, and so will others.

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by Jah Al Zawahiri

With the season right around the corner is anyone concerned about the long road trip we have from Jan into March? That long road trip imo will make or break our season.

That stretch isn't as bad as it seems. There is a 14/16 day gap due to the Olympics. And there is a bit of time in between games, or the games are close by. This year is a pretty good schedule for all things considered.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by Noir

$8 million may be the starting point of his negotiation but considering he's already making close to $7 million doesn't necessarily mean there's going to be a significant deviation to his asking cost. At least not significant a deviation enough that will leave room for another high-value player instead of another 3rd or 4th line plug.

$8M is just a generalization of Luongo's upcoming contract. So becareful before you label others as morons before the favour is returned. Again. You don't want to start this so keep your condescending attitude in check, and so will others.

The way people talk they seem to think the contract is guaranteed over 8, which it almost certainly will not be

people underestimate the back door relationships between franchise players like Luongo and their general managers, someone like Mike Gillis doesn't just sit in the background and deal through Luongo's agent and go strictly on numbers, he obviously consults Luongo on numerous issues regarding the teams development, acquisitions, and probably even drafting to some regard

Both of them together are not stupid, and im positive they have an understanding that if Luongo does indeed want to stay in Vancouver long-term he needs to take a little less, or work the contract so that if does not handcuff the team and they can grow and move forward always being competitive

the "window" to win a cup is the time in which Luongo is signed imo, enough pieces are in place that players can gel, get to know one another, and make good personnel decisions and character additions that can push us over the edge and make up a cup contender, the GM and the Captain understand both points and will work out something accordingly.

BTW.. in regards to that length road trip, imo the 8 game home stand is more of a concern.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by Noir

$8 million may be the starting point of his negotiation but considering he's already making close to $7 million doesn't necessarily mean there's going to be a significant deviation to his asking cost.

$8M is just a generalization of Luongo's upcoming contract.

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

The way people talk they seem to think the contract is guaranteed over 8, which it almost certainly will not be

Both of them together are not stupid, and im positive they have an understanding that if Luongo does indeed want to stay in Vancouver long-term he needs to take a little less, or work the contract so that if does not handcuff the team and they can grow and move forward always being competitive

That's it - front-loaded contracts FTW. Luongo has reportedly stated outright that he'd like to finish his career here - that should shut up the comparisons to Pronger and his Edmonton fiasco. We've already seen with the Sedins that Gillis isn't in favor of long-term contracts, so it has to be pretty clear to Lu that if he wants that sort of term, he'll have to make some sort of concession in pay.

Given how little a lot of people expected of Gillis at the start, I'd say he's acquitted himself quite well in his first full year as GM - he's shown he has some hockey smarts, and a somewhat unique insight into what players want. He's got an angle on players, their agents, AND other GMs, that no other current GM has, and that gives him a decided advantage despite his inexperience.

[clowe]

+1 for front loading.

If he wants a raise, I would give him something similar to Hossa's contract. A 5.2M cap hit but really makes 7.45M/year

[MR_BIGGS]

What would constitute him getting a raise from what he's making this year. It's the last year of his contract and you know he's going to play lights out in the first couple months because of the Olympics. Contract year also. I just hope he signs and doesn't handcuff the team, but if he has a lights out season and a stellar playoffs (by stellar i mean conference finals) he could easily become one of the highest paid player in the NHL.