Clear Turn Signals

[Dan_Guy]

From what I know, you must have amber for turn signals.

Would it be legal if I would have

Headlights like this
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/att...4&d=1247271455

but also attach amber side markers like these

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:...%2520Large.jpg

Can someone please clear up the law for me?
Thank You

[124Y]

From my understanding, the headlights and the side markers you posted are legal
Your front and side turn signals have to be amber, not white, but you can have a clear or white casing with an amber light bulb.

[elkayem]

I've seen people with cleared taillights too. =\

[zulutango]

Turn signal devices

4.13 (1) A vehicle may be equipped and mounted with

(a) a lamp type turn signal system, or

(b) a semaphore turn signal device,

functionally equivalent to original equipment supplied by the vehicle manufacturer or of a type or make approved by the director.

(2) A lamp type turn signal system must

(a) have 2 lamps, mounted on the front of the vehicle, that are capable of displaying flashes of white or amber light which are visible to the front,

(b) have 2 lamps, mounted on the rear of the vehicle, that are capable of displaying flashes of red or amber light which are visible to the rear,

(c) be visible on each side of the vehicle at a distance of 100 m in normal sunlight at an angle of 45° from the longitudinal axis of the vehicle, and

(d) include a tell-tale lamp which gives a clear indication that the system is activated.

(3) During the time specified in section 4.01, a semaphore turn signal device must be capable of illumination by light or reflection visible from a distance of 100 m.

(4) A public passenger vehicle or a commercial vehicle that weighs more than 4 500 kg may be equipped with supplementary turn signal lamps in addition to the turn signal system required by subsection (2).

(5) A turn signal lamp must be mounted on the vehicle at a height of not less than 38 cm and not more than 1.83 m.

(6) Subsection (5) does not apply to highway construction vehicles, maintenance vehicles, tow cars or vehicles being towed by a tow car.

(7) A vehicle which is being transported in a drive-away/tow-away operation, or is being towed by a tow car, must have turn signals that are synchronized with the turn signals of the towing vehicle when the tow vehicle turn signals are illuminated.

(8) Despite subsection (5), a tow car may be equipped with supplementary turn signal lamps mounted within the maximum allowable vehicle height (4.15 m) and as far forward as the rear of the cab.

(9) The centre of the front signal lamps must be at least 10 cm from the edge of the low beam headlamps

One other thing to keep in mind...and vehicle manufactured after 1971 must not have any original light or reflector removed/replaced unless it meets current standards. This is in the Provincial Inspection book. All lighting installed must meet approval of the Supt. Motor Vehicles and that means all TS 108 standards and the Canad Safety Act. IF your replacements meet all those qualifications, then you are legal.

[Dan_Guy]

(a) have 2 lamps, mounted on the front of the vehicle, that are capable of displaying flashes of white or amber light which are visible to the front,

so from what I understand I wont even need to install the amber side markers because the turn signals will be flashing white

[sho_bc]

Except you need amber reflectors visible at the front, front/side.

[Dan_Guy]

hmmm
would this be sufficient enough of an amber reflection?
Would non operational amber side markers be enough as well?

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/ima...ine=1242974991

[sho_bc]

i don't see what you're referring to in that photo....

[Dan_Guy]

sorry, bad picture

from what i can see its a clear turn light with an amber wall in the back

Thanks for all your help guys. =)

[sho_bc]

From what I see is a clear lens with an amber bulb, not an amber reflector.

[zulutango]

You also need amber reflectors on the front side and red side reflectors at the rear.


Reflective devices

4.21 (1) A vehicle must be equipped with at least one red reflector at the rear of the vehicle, either separate or incorporated into a tail lamp, that is mounted at a height of not less than 38 cm and not more than 1.83 m.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a vehicle manufactured before January 1, 1958.

(3) Only amber reflectors may be mounted on the front or side of a vehicle.

(4) Only red reflectors may be mounted on the rear of a vehicle or on the side of the vehicle at or toward the rear of the vehicle.

(5) A vehicle with an overall width of 2.05 m or more, or a trailer or semitrailer having a gross weight in excess of 1 400 kg, must be equipped with at least

(a) 2 amber reflectors mounted on the side of the vehicle, trailer or semitrailer near the front,

(b) 2 amber reflectors mounted on the side of the vehicle, trailer or semitrailer near the rear, and

(c) 2 red reflectors mounted on the rear of the vehicle, trailer or semitrailer.

(6) A trailer or semitrailer must be equipped with at least one red reflector on the rear of the vehicle at each side.

(7) A pole trailer must be equipped with at least

(a) one amber reflector on each side of the vehicle at the front and the horizontal mid-point, and

(b) one red reflector on the rear of the vehicle or load at each side.

(8) A commercial trailer with a width of more than 2.05 m and a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 4 536 kg must be equipped with reflective markings on the rear and side of the vehicle to meet the approved standards established by the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (Canada) and the applicable SAE standards

(a) on and after January 1, 2000 if the vehicle was manufactured on or after December 1, 1993, and

(b) on and after January 1, 2002 if the vehicle was manufactured before December 1, 1993.

(9) Despite subsections (1) to (7), reflective markings may replace red or amber reflectors on the side or rear of a vehicle.

[en. B.C. Reg. 476/98, s. 2; am. B.C. Reg. 413/99.]

[!SG]

ok from my understanding, it works out like this,

turn signals are not the same as reflectors BUT manufactuers usually combine the 2 in the same housing.

Reflectors, you need a RED reflector near the rear of the car VISIBLE from the side. you need an orange reflector near the front of the car VISIBLE from the side.

Turn signals, rear turn signals can be white BUT need to produce amber or red light. so you can have a rear turn signal that has a white clear lens, but the light it produces when flashing must be amber or red.

turn signals, front turn signals can be white BUT need to produce amber or white light. so you can have a front turn signal that has a white clear lens, but the light it produces when flashing must be amber or white.

the thing is, most manufactuers combing the reflector and the turn signal all into 1 housing.

[zulutango]

And when you remove the stock light which also holds the legally required reflectors, you are installing non-compliant equipment as it does not function the same as the factory stuff and you have removed the reflector , as noted above.

[yvrnycracer]

Originally Posted by zulutango

And when you remove the stock light which also holds the legally required reflectors, you are installing non-compliant equipment as it does not function the same as the factory stuff and you have removed the reflector , as noted above.

how is that true? if you were to say install OEM ECODE lighting instead of the standard DOT lighting... how is this illegal? Especially since ECODE is a completely acceptable standard in the Federal Regulations...

Also it is still beyond me what those stupid reflectors/side markers are actually for...

[Dan_Guy]

Ok so tell me if this scenario works

Front: Clear headlight with clear turn signals ( flashing amber or white bulbs )
Front Sides: 1 amber side marker ( does not flash )

Read: Regulation lights with red turn signals that are also side reflectors

[skidmark]

Originally Posted by yvrnycracer

Also it is still beyond me what those stupid reflectors/side markers are actually for.

Think about it a bit.

If you can't turn your lights on and you are stuck on the road at night, what allows other drivers to see you? Reflectors.

If you are looking at a vehicle passing in front of you at night and you see an amber side marker on the left and a red side marker on the right, which way is that vehicle going? From your right to your left, possibly an important bit of information.

I can tell you about a guy that might be alive today if his vehicle had proper reflectors installed.

[yvrnycracer]

Think about it a bit... in europe they don't use them... and trust me when I say the streets over there are WAY darker than anything we have here...

VW has both european and north american bumpers (one incorporating the side marker into the body)

Mercedes glues them on as reflectors... for the north american market

If it had such safety benefits this would be a world standard...

Most of the lighting sections cast a reflection when hit by another light. This goes for rear and front lights. And in most cases when will you NOT be able to turn the lights on on a car? So unless the other car was bombing around with no lights on it is highly unlikely that the accident was caused by having no reflectors on the car... I am sure speed or any other aggravating factor didn't play a roll in that tragedy.

This is kind of the "speed kills" mentality...

It's always sad when someone dies in an accident... but its sadder when officials (and insurance companies) skew data from these deaths to benefit and justify large useless campaigns or in this case for sake of argument.

I heard the craziest thing the other day... an officer is quoted as saying "its not our job to know the regs and the MVA... that's why we issue VI's" So even if they're wrong, average joe has to pay for it... I you and I have to pay for the ignorance of the police force... GREAT

[Dan_Guy]

no, I understand why the reflectors are needed.

Like when you are driving on a back road and lets say there is a dead car Right in the middle, if all the lights are clear and the car is black, have fun stopping in time
also if a car is missing a light or two it can show you the dimensions of the car if its a narrow road or in any other case.

What I was wondering is how far can I go before its Unsafe/Illegal

( possible set up above ^ )

[yvrnycracer]

Originally Posted by Dan_Guy

no, I understand why the reflectors are needed.

Like when you are driving on a back road and lets say there is a dead car Right in the middle, if all the lights are clear and the car is black, have fun stopping in time
also if a car is missing a light or two it can show you the dimensions of the car if its a narrow road or in any other case.

What I was wondering is how far can I go before its Unsafe/Illegal

( possible set up above ^ )

so I would then presume that you are driving around without your headlights on? Which then would result in the reflectors being useless anyway?

[46_valentinor]

Originally Posted by yvrnycracer

so I would then presume that you are driving around without your headlights on? Which then would result in the reflectors being useless anyway?

^i agree!! And for the people who were talking about driving in small streets with no lights, there is a reason why your cars have high beams built into them.

[PACER]

Originally Posted by yvrnycracer

Think about it a bit... in europe they don't use them... and trust me when I say the streets over there are WAY darker than anything we have here...

VW has both european and north american bumpers (one incorporating the side marker into the body)

Mercedes glues them on as reflectors... for the north american market

If it had such safety benefits this would be a world standard...

Most of the lighting sections cast a reflection when hit by another light. This goes for rear and front lights. And in most cases when will you NOT be able to turn the lights on on a car? So unless the other car was bombing around with no lights on it is highly unlikely that the accident was caused by having no reflectors on the car... I am sure speed or any other aggravating factor didn't play a roll in that tragedy.

This is kind of the "speed kills" mentality...

It's always sad when someone dies in an accident... but its sadder when officials (and insurance companies) skew data from these deaths to benefit and justify large useless campaigns or in this case for sake of argument.

I heard the craziest thing the other day... an officer is quoted as saying "its not our job to know the regs and the MVA... that's why we issue VI's" So even if they're wrong, average joe has to pay for it... I you and I have to pay for the ignorance of the police force... GREAT

If drivers here had to meet the same stringent driver standards as they do in Europe and if we had the same strick and severe penalties for driving infractions then maybe we could change the standards but since all you have to be capable of here to get a licence is breathe we have to have laws that protect the lowest common denominator......

Not sure of the "speed kills quote" not sure what you are refering to in that. Are you trying to say speed does not kill and that some how the statistics from pretty much every jurisdicition in the world are wrong. Simple physics.
Unless you are capable of altering the space time continuum to slow time or turn back time the faster you go the less time you have, the less distance you have or the more distance you require to complete an action......

[zulutango]

"Beam me up Scotty.."...I'm no longer capable of this time warping.....plus, I've got a Klingon on my starboard bow."