newbie BMW owner here.

[willcls]

Originally Posted by !SG

on euros like benz and bmw, they use a hard compound brake pad, and a soft rotor. this combo gives the best stoping power, as it evens out the wear on the pads and wear on the rotors to be closer life use.

if your car is under warranty, its better to double check to make sure u dont void the warranty, yes even something like a brake change can be possible.

how come it is typical to see bmw's with lots of brake dust on the wheels then? is that from the rotor or pads?

[achiam]

Going to the dealership is a rip-off. I drove a 7-series for 8 years, and bought ALL parts from Lordco and DIY'd. It worked totally fine and was a fraction of the dealership prices -- 40-50% off in fact.

Also, I have an EXCELLENT honest mechanic to recommend to you; he's an old frenchman named Marc, who specializes in Porsche and BMW, his hourly rates are much cheaper than dealers and he definitely knows his shit inside and out -- he even had a shop porsche that he used to track! He's out in Burnaby:

The internal motors controlling the HVAC were once busted, and Autowest quoted me $2500 after labor to fix the problem. I brought it to this dude and he fixed it for $1100 after parts! I even went and visited every 2 days and he would show us what was busted and each step of what he was doing.

Marc's Import Auto Repair Ltd
6841 Palm Avenue,
Burnaby, BC V5J 4M1
604-432-6636

[achiam]

Originally Posted by willcls

how come it is typical to see bmw's with lots of brake dust on the wheels then? is that from the rotor or pads?

Brake dust comes from brake pads -- basically, brakes work by converting speed energy to heat energy via the friction from the pad clamping onto the rotor. If the brake pad is softer, more friction is produced resulting in greater braking force, but resulting in faster wear (hence more dust). If you get cheap pads that last a million miles, they are much harder, and hence less stopping force.

The above does not apply to carbon fibre porsche brakes. That's totally different.

[//RacingSpirit>>]

Originally Posted by achiam

Going to the dealership is a rip-off. I drove a 7-series for 8 years, and bought ALL parts from Lordco and DIY'd. It worked totally fine and was a fraction of the dealership prices -- 40-50% off in fact.

Most BMW owners don't diy... BMW dealerships needs to charge you those prices because they need to pay their bills, pay their employees, AND make a profit.

[ericthehalfbee]

^ So you think independent shops don't need to pay their bills, pay their employees and make a profit? Or are they doing it out of the goodness of their heart?

Independent shops can do simpler things for cheap (simple like brakes) because it takes very little in terms of equipment and staff training to do such repairs. Independent shops with the same level of service as a dealer will not be cheap, since they have increased operating costs from all the specialized equipment they need to buy.

And I'd never buy Lordco parts for a 7 Series. I've seen way too many brake problems from doing things too cheap. I'd like to know what brand of pads & rotors you bought, cuz some of the stuff I've seen from Lordco gives me the shivers thinking about stopping a 2 ton luxury car.

slammer111: 2mm is a lot of wear. That's about 80 thou, and if you were machining rotors you'd never take off that much. After 20-30 thou you'd give up and recommend new rotors. You can't compare that wear to the total thickness of the rotors. Since many rotors are vented, that 2mm represents a significant portion of the material between where the pad contacts the rotor and the inside of the rotor where the vented area is. Running on rotors that are below recommended thickness will often lead to braking problems.


As to your brake job, $1,045 is too much for everything, even for a BMW.

[!SG]

funny you mention that, because my friends with bimmers always mention that as well. i believe its the brake compound that bmw uses in its brakes. lots of dust but better stopping power.

Originally Posted by willcls

how come it is typical to see bmw's with lots of brake dust on the wheels then? is that from the rotor or pads?

[!SG]

haha, some of you guys think the prices are a rip off,

but to put into perspective. ill be doing my own brake upgrade soon. parts alone are costing me around $800 bucks for 2 front brake rotors, 1 set of front brake pads, and lexus hardware for the calipers. this is with a pretty decent discount already.

so factor in that im not adding the cost of labour as im doing this myself (being some what mechanically incline), its actually on par with what the dealership charges.

i think its just some see the prices skewed from seeing advertisement from canadian tire for brake rotors starting at $60 bucks. they are probably on the cheaper end of rotors and remember, the key word is starting.

[JV6]

I was a newbie at first aswell for being to used to a honda major brake service where they machine your rotors instead of replacing it.

[achiam]

Originally Posted by ericthehalfbee

And I'd never buy Lordco parts for a 7 Series. I've seen way too many brake problems from doing things too cheap. I'd like to know what brand of pads & rotors you bought, cuz some of the stuff I've seen from Lordco gives me the shivers thinking about stopping a 2 ton luxury car.

Heyah! This was years ago, but I believe I used only Bosch generic parts. They have several differently priced brands for Euro parts, and Bosch I believe was their most expensive brand -- I remember trying OEM BMW pads/rotors once after generic use and found no change at all. Mind you I was not racing this car obviously and using it only for city driving.

[!SG]

the thing ive learned through the years is its the top, the corp, the main company that makes the judgement on what to charge for labour hours at the dealership.

in the years, the labour hours keep going up, to reflect the overall higher cost to run a dealership.

sure indy shops charge a lower labour rate, and use aftermarket oe parts. but their are so many of them, they have to charge a lower profit margin just to stay competitive.

the issue comes when an indy shop uses inferior parts, charges a low labour rate. ppl start using that as a base line to judge the pricing of dealerships and high end indy shops that charge a premium for their services AND their premium parts. see, these shops have repuations, such as those of dealerships. risk of using inferior parts just to make a buck but also risk their rep if the part fails is too much of a risk.

what they do is offset the cost by providing the best service out there.

Originally Posted by ericthehalfbee

^ So you think independent shops don't need to pay their bills, pay their employees and make a profit? Or are they doing it out of the goodness of their heart?

Independent shops can do simpler things for cheap (simple like brakes) because it takes very little in terms of equipment and staff training to do such repairs. Independent shops with the same level of service as a dealer will not be cheap, since they have increased operating costs from all the specialized equipment they need to buy.

And I'd never buy Lordco parts for a 7 Series. I've seen way too many brake problems from doing things too cheap. I'd like to know what brand of pads & rotors you bought, cuz some of the stuff I've seen from Lordco gives me the shivers thinking about stopping a 2 ton luxury car.

slammer111: 2mm is a lot of wear. That's about 80 thou, and if you were machining rotors you'd never take off that much. After 20-30 thou you'd give up and recommend new rotors. You can't compare that wear to the total thickness of the rotors. Since many rotors are vented, that 2mm represents a significant portion of the material between where the pad contacts the rotor and the inside of the rotor where the vented area is. Running on rotors that are below recommended thickness will often lead to braking problems.


As to your brake job, $1,045 is too much for everything, even for a BMW.

[J____]

i believe OP is asking why a brake job is so cheap if it includes replacing rotors. It does sound cheap especially from a dealer. Call back and ask another rep.

[//RacingSpirit>>]

Originally Posted by ericthehalfbee

^ So you think independent shops don't need to pay their bills, pay their employees and make a profit? Or are they doing it out of the goodness of their heart?

Independent shops are smaller and have lower overhead. The service and parts department pays the majority of the bills to run the dealership. Premium car dealerships need to pay their employees good money to keep them and to keep their customer service high. You go into a BMW dealership for servicing, you get a nice wait area with free drinks from the fridge, coffee/tea/hot chocolate, and free muffins, scones, pastries. Overall the environment is alot nicer than independent shop wait areas. You get a free car wash, courtesy car/shuttle service when you get your car serviced. What you pay for servicing at a BMW dealership is not just parts and labour, you also get the service and hospitality.

[?NR]

for New BMW owners, did you know you can purchase a service inclusive package from BMW Canada starting from $700 that COVERS your wear and tear items such as brakes?

just one set of retail front complete brake job cost exceeds that already. Now why wouldn't you want to take advantage of that? If you drive hard and needs brakes atleast twice a year, or go thru wiper blades like crazy, the package has already paid for itself. Useful for hi-usage leased vehicles.

just boggles me.

and its a BMW. Can't afford it, don't drive it. Too many complaints of expensive parts, when in reality, BMW parts are not that expensive for common parts. It's only expensive when you get into the electronics and heavy mechanicals.

http://www.bmw.ca/ca/en/owners/servi...e_upgrade.html

and for a list of pricing honored at all dealers

http://www.bmw.ca/ca/en/owners/servi...ackages_1.html

[ivanz]

Originally Posted by richee

having a softer compound rotor that wears down also helps to reduce brake fade when constantly using the brakes
(such as when going downhill on the coquihalla)
in a typical japanese car, you may notice a reduction of performance in such a case
and not as much on a bmw.

this is also why you may notice your wheels are getting much dirtier quicker in your bmw compared to other cars,
because of the increased brake dust from rotors/pads wearing down
but you have to understand BMW does this for performance and safety reasons

machining a bmw rotor will simply wear down a rotor that's already worn,
and replacing the rotor along with pads will reduce the chance of vibration or squealing
from the brakes

You are comparing apples to oranges (A Japanese econobox to a luxury car). Lots of Japanese luxury cars have high friction brake/softer rotors like the Lexus GS for example.
Nobody in their right mind should use their brakes that much on the Coquihalla unless they want to risk losing them...they should be engine braking. I can easily make it down most hills in 3rd/4th at 3-4k RPM without using the brakes at all or just a bit. This is in an SUV...

[?NR]

Originally Posted by no_clue

wait you said your X5 is new, shouldn't the brakes be covered under the 4-year free maintenance warranty?

brakes not included. If it's a new car it will be covered under condition based (CBS) ontop of the BMW Inspections 1/2/3 at certain km intervals. Typically covers only oil+filter or oil+filter+air/microfilter.

[Rich Sandor]

pads & rotors are so easy.. here's an e46 rear rotor job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcSstG_el-I

I have to admit.. my favorite brakes are the big brembos off the 993tt. Those are the easiest brakes to change I have ever had the pleasure of working on.

[//RacingSpirit>>]

Originally Posted by !NiteRaven

brakes not included. If it's a new car it will be covered under condition based (CBS) ontop of the BMW Inspections 1/2/3 at certain km intervals. Typically covers only oil+filter or oil+filter+air/microfilter.

Inspection 3? Just curious, what does that include? I thought BMW only had insp. 1 and 2 only...

[?NR]

Originally Posted by //RacingSpirit>>

Inspection 3? Just curious, what does that include? I thought BMW only had insp. 1 and 2 only...

3's are typically done first at 80km interval (before 4yr/80k warranty runs out).

includes :

oil and filter change
spark plug change
air filter
microfilter(s)
fuel filter
diff fluid (though specified lifetime fill, it's done anyways)
flushes (coolant + ps + brakes)

inspection 3 components differ from vehicle to vehicle, but you get the jist.

essentially, everything that can be flushed, changed, etc plus inspection of driveline, suspension bits and pieces such as worn control arm/tension strut bushings or anything that can be covered before the end of warranty period.

Now, with new 2010 models, BMW has launched their automated services. For vehicles with standard BMW Assist, it should come with teleservice. What it does is the car itself will send periodic messages to the home dealer and if it needs servicing, the home retailer will then make the arrangements for you instead of the other way around. But if you think your BMW needs service, you can initiate a manual teleservice call so the computer will send data to the home retailer, then the retailer takes over and make arrangements or call you.

more info here http://www.bmw.com/com/en/owners/ser...eservices.html

[wasabisashimi]

Originally Posted by //RacingSpirit>>

You go into a BMW dealership for servicing, you get a nice wait area with free drinks from the fridge, coffee/tea/hot chocolate, and free muffins, scones, pastries

Just curious what BMW dealer did you go to? I went to brian Jessel, and I pay my own coffee at the M-cafe. They give you free water only, and it is not even chilled. Oh and my courtesy car is a Honda accord with cloth seats

Now lets compare to my lexus dealer : i go in, there is a fridge with aluminum can juice, pop, ice cold water and a Van Houtte coffee machine that you can choose your own flavor and brew. My courtesy car is either RX350 or IS250

I do not agree that Brian jessel customer waiting room is any special.

[wasabisashimi]

Originally Posted by J____

i believe OP is asking why a brake job is so cheap if it includes replacing rotors. It does sound cheap especially from a dealer. Call back and ask another rep.

Thank you, finally one person got my question right. I did talk to another service advisor, My $545 does NOT include rotors. (rotors are $575 alone for front pair)

I dont know any indy shops and would prefer OEM parts over aftermarket stuff. Thats why i do dealer service at BMW.

Maybe people should just buy OEM parts and take it to their own trusted Mechanic to install for cheaper labour per hour rate.

[//RacingSpirit>>]

Originally Posted by wasabisashimi

Just curious what BMW dealer did you go to? I went to brian Jessel, and I pay my own coffee at the M-cafe. They give you free water only, and it is not even chilled. Oh and my courtesy car is a Honda accord with cloth seats

Now lets compare to my lexus dealer : i go in, there is a fridge with aluminum can juice, pop, ice cold water and a Van Houtte coffee machine that you can choose your own flavor and brew. My courtesy car is either RX350 or IS250

I do not agree that Brian jessel customer waiting room is any special.

The BMW Store... They have canned pop, juice, etc in the fridge. Coffee/hot chocolate is from one of those fancy machines from Van Houtte. And they have a selection of tea bags if you're into tea. They get muffins, scones, etc delivered there every morning. They also have a 60" plasma tv in the waiting area so you can watch hockey or whatever while you wait. The courtesy cars are all E90 3series sedans I think (they may have X3s there too).

[wasabisashimi]

Originally Posted by //RacingSpirit>>

The BMW Store... They have canned pop, juice, etc in the fridge. Coffee/hot chocolate is from one of those fancy machines from Van Houtte. And they have a selection of tea bags if you're into tea. They get muffins, scones, etc delivered there every morning. They also have a 60" plasma tv in the waiting area so you can watch hockey or whatever while you wait. The courtesy cars are all E90 3series sedans I think (they may have X3s there too).

I should switch dealership

[ELITE_TRAYUNZE]

My dealership is BJ...I've never done this waiting room stuff you guys are talking about, as I've never had to wait for anything...But then again, I've only had to go to the dealership twice, first to buy, then to bring home. I've always gotten a brand new 335i for courtesy car and I drive a 328i...

[CRS]

You can't switch dealerships for service?

[//RacingSpirit>>]

Originally Posted by ELITE_TRAYUNZE

My dealership is BJ...I've never done this waiting room stuff you guys are talking about, as I've never had to wait for anything...But then again, I've only had to go to the dealership twice, first to buy, then to bring home. I've always gotten a brand new 335i for courtesy car and I drive a 328i...

So what you are saying is you got a 335i courtesy car when you've never had servicing done at the dealership....how does that work?