REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

wasabisashimi · 01-23-2010, 08:58 AM

ok, so this is my first bmw since switching over from an ITR.

I am driving X5 at the moment. My brake pad replacement indicator light came on, so i called BMW for service. The advisor quoted me $545 including replacing front pads, pad sensor, and replacing rotors.

What does she mean replacing rotors? does she mean machining rotors and not replacing rotors? I used to drive an acura and serving brake means getting a machine to smooth out my rotor surface, hardly ever heard of replacing rotors unless they are old and bad.

My X5 is new, i am abit confused with this female service advisor.

Can some of you bimmer owners shed some light for my noob experience ?

Kalize · 01-23-2010, 09:01 AM

With BMW's...they usually replace the rotors...

wasabisashimi · 01-23-2010, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalize

With BMW's...they usually replace the rotors...

ok, so front pads are $229, sensors are $45, plus 2 hr labour ( about $180, which leaves the rotors to be free almost? that doesnt make any sense to me at all. I used to paid brembo rotors for 120 a pair.

CRS · 01-23-2010, 09:43 AM

Try calling up Nixon or CG automotive for BMW specific advise or work.

From what I hear, they have better service and prices than the dealership service places.

drunkrussian · 01-23-2010, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wasabisashimi

ok, so front pads are $229, sensors are $45, plus 2 hr labour ( about $180, which leaves the rotors to be free almost? that doesnt make any sense to me at all. I used to paid brembo rotors for 120 a pair.

unfortunately that's part of what you'll have to get used to when switching from a cheap common car to a bmw - possibly the most expensive non-exotic road car to maintain in gvrd.

I dunno if it's possible, but if it is I'd go to a small shop that specializes in BMWs rather than a big one or dealership. Prices may be cheaper and quality may be higher!

bcrdukes · 01-23-2010, 09:54 AM

I've had a positive experience with Nixon Automotive for some repair and diagnostic work. They're in my good books.

Get used to this - it is normal for them to do everything when it comes to brake service. The same rule applies to my 89 E30.

wasabisashimi · 01-23-2010, 01:31 PM

ok, i think you guys are not reading my question right. I have no problem paying for my BMW service. Thats why i switched. THis is not a money issue. My car is in the dealership right now.

My main question is : is it normal to change rotor on my first brake service? (according to service advisor.) Why did my honda rotor last so much longer, does this mean BMW rotors are weaker or cheaper quality?..

Lets compare brake services-->
Typical honda brake service : incluing pad, machine rotor, check brake fluid.
Typical BMW brake service: new pads, new rotors, new sensors, check fluid.

Can someone let me know about this rotor, seems odd and not environmentally friendly if i have to change the rotors everytime brake is low instead of just machine the rotor surface.

Alphamale · 01-23-2010, 02:01 PM

The pad/rotor compound on German cars is different than that of your typical Japanese car. All you have to do is take a similiarly used car of the same milage between a Japanese and German car and look at the wear pattern on the rotor/pads. You will see that on the German car, there is a significantly greater wear pattern such that the outter most part of the rotor develops a deep "ridge".

Most people opt out of machining the rotors for German cars/big rotors because it can simply just be a waste of time. Without proper machining, it is easy to have the rotors "warp" such that whenever the brake pedal is depressed, vibration is transmitted to the driver's foot = complaints.

Do it once, do it right, zero complaints.

richee · 01-23-2010, 02:51 PM

having a softer compound rotor that wears down also helps to reduce brake fade when constantly using the brakes
(such as when going downhill on the coquihalla)
in a typical japanese car, you may notice a reduction of performance in such a case
and not as much on a bmw.

this is also why you may notice your wheels are getting much dirtier quicker in your bmw compared to other cars,
because of the increased brake dust from rotors/pads wearing down
but you have to understand BMW does this for performance and safety reasons

machining a bmw rotor will simply wear down a rotor that's already worn,
and replacing the rotor along with pads will reduce the chance of vibration or squealing
from the brakes

CRS · 01-23-2010, 05:32 PM

What is a good body shop for BMWs?

I just noticed that there is some pretty deep scratches on the rear bumper my car and now probably will have to go to a bodyshop to get it repaired. Anyone recommend any good and affordable ones?

Probably not going to go through ICBC since I assume it will be less than the deductible.

Thanks!

jeff_alexander · 01-23-2010, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drunkrussian

unfortunately that's part of what you'll have to get used to when switching from a cheap common car to a bmw - possibly the most expensive non-exotic road car to maintain in gvrd.

I dunno if it's possible, but if it is I'd go to a small shop that specializes in BMWs rather than a big one or dealership. Prices may be cheaper and quality may be higher!

A BMW is a cheap and common car, you can get one for the price of an upgraded civic.
Posted via RS Mobile

sonick · 01-23-2010, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff_alexander

A BMW is a cheap and common car, you can get one for the price of an upgraded civic.
Posted via RS Mobile

+1, it's only because BMW's have more electronic gizmos and stuff that may mess up, which is expensive as there's no aftermarket and its mostly OEM replacement.

Most common mechanical and wear items such as brakes, sensors, bushings, window regulators, are comparable to Toyotas/Honda.

//RacingSpirit>> · 01-23-2010, 06:08 PM

BMW offers package pricing for brake parts if you do it at the dealership. The parts are heavily discounted to offset the higher labour rate and for BMW dealerships to stay competitive with auto repair shops. If you buy the parts yourself over the counter, it will be more expensive than to get it replaced at the dealership with labour and taxes all in.

edit. Rotors on BMWs are replaced, not machined.

!SG · 01-23-2010, 06:21 PM

on euros like benz and bmw, they use a hard compound brake pad, and a soft rotor. this combo gives the best stoping power, as it evens out the wear on the pads and wear on the rotors to be closer life use.

if your car is under warranty, its better to double check to make sure u dont void the warranty, yes even something like a brake change can be possible.

GabAlmighty · 01-23-2010, 06:22 PM

That's alot of money stock pads... I think I can change my front/rear rotors and pads for that price.. Just sayin.

van_driver · 01-23-2010, 06:51 PM

I like you point out the service advisor was female

no_clue · 01-23-2010, 07:37 PM

wait you said your X5 is new, shouldn't the brakes be covered under the 4-year free maintenance warranty?

ericthehalfbee · 01-23-2010, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by //RacingSpirit>>

BMW offers package pricing for brake parts if you do it at the dealership. The parts are heavily discounted to offset the higher labour rate and for BMW dealerships to stay competitive with auto repair shops. If you buy the parts yourself over the counter, it will be more expensive than to get it replaced at the dealership with labour and taxes all in.

edit. Rotors on BMWs are replaced, not machined.

Yup. BMW dealers are very competitive with independent shops on brake jobs because of the big discounts.

It's not just BMW's - many late model cars you replace rotors, and not just on the Euros. Asian and domestics it's comoon as well. Rotors aren't that expensive for most vehicles, so even if you can machine them, why spend the money to machine used rotors when new ones aren't that much more?

IMO, $545 for front brakes on an X5 is a good deal.

!SG. BMW can't void your warranty if you get the work done at an aftermarket shop. This has been settled in court many, many years ago. Many dealers still try to infer this to customers, but legally they can't do it. Though many still try, and if the customer doesn't fight back they'll get walked on. This applies to getting the work done at an independent shop. If you don't use the correct parts then you could void your warranty (like if you used the wrong oil in your engine). But you're 100% fine with an independent as long as they use the same quality (approved) parts.

ELITE_TRAYUNZE · 01-23-2010, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by no_clue

wait you said your X5 is new, shouldn't the brakes be covered under the 4-year free maintenance warranty?

Brakes are wear-and-tear and, therefore, are not covered under warranty.

!SG · 01-23-2010, 09:58 PM

i dont know everything there is to warranty as im still new there. but ive heard of cases where bmw void warranty due to the car having the wrong tire, non run flats. sounds strange, but never can be too safe.

during those first 4 years of having a new car, you really gotta read the warranty documents just to make sure.

but its also always good to clear with the dealership. if they give u the wrong info, you have grounds to complain, but if they gave u the right info, then at least u have ammo to recover losses if an independant shop gave the wrong info =)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericthehalfbee

!SG. BMW can't void your warranty if you get the work done at an aftermarket shop. This has been settled in court many, many years ago. Many dealers still try to infer this to customers, but legally they can't do it. Though many still try, and if the customer doesn't fight back they'll get walked on. This applies to getting the work done at an independent shop. If you don't use the correct parts then you could void your warranty (like if you used the wrong oil in your engine). But you're 100% fine with an independent as long as they use the same quality (approved) parts.

Rich Sandor · 01-23-2010, 10:25 PM

As long as the vehicle is maintained within the factory guidelines, the warranty cannot be voided just because the work is done by an independent shop, unless that shop does the work incorrectly.

With the exception of carbon/ceramic composite brakes on supercars, all passenger car and light truck brake rotors are cast iron, and are made from 'gray iron' which has an SAE spec of G10. They are pretty much all the same softness and composition. The differences between rotors are DIAMETER, THICKNESS and VENTING. It is the brake PADS that come in many varying compositions, depending on your application.

Back to rotors: as mentioned before, BMW and Porsche and Mercedes sometimes size their pads and rotors so that they all get replaced at the same time. This is not to waste resources or gouge customers at service, it's because that combination of pad and rotor gives you the best stopping power for the lightest possible weight. On cars with more powerful and larger brakes, 1 rotor will last through 2 sets of street pads, but only 1 set of track pads. Remember brakes are unsprung weight, and the heavier your brakes are, they heavier the steering on the car. 1 pound of unsprung weight = 5-7lbs of sprung weight!!

For each car, there is a 'new/maximum' and 'minimum' brake rotor thickness. Somewhere in between, there is a thickness where it is too late to machine them. Additionally, pads RARELY wear evenly. When you machine the rotor, you make it perfect, and then pair it back with pads that have been set into the old rotor. This can give you squealing pads and uneven braking forces. On a toyota corolla, it ain't gonna make a difference, but on a BMW... well, they have higher standards of performance.

Don't forget too, your X5 is a heavy and fast muthafucka... Force = mass x acceleration. You will probably go through pads and rotors much faster than a small car, even if your pads and rotors are much bigger. It's the nature of driving a heavier vehicle.

ELITE_TRAYUNZE · 01-23-2010, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Sandor

Back to rotors:....This is not to waste resources or gouge customers at service, it's because that combination of pad and rotor gives you the best stopping power for the lightest possible weight...

One of my favourite perks...

wasabisashimi · 01-23-2010, 11:38 PM

brake service done today, $545 including tax.

Note: the female advisor was wrong. It only included my front pads. It did not include rotor change.

Rotor change + pads will cost $1045. which will come later.

JoshuaWong · 01-24-2010, 02:04 AM

^ yup, did my rotors change during the end of 2nd year on my 2005 X3 3.0i $1100

slammer111 · 01-24-2010, 05:30 AM

^ Oh snap. DIY.

My buddy had his MB done at the dealer. Front and rear rotors and pads. Cost him $2k.

I drive the same car as him, and decided to DIY. Parts at the stealer cost about $700, and only took a couple of hours of scratching one's head. If you look online or pick up "OEM replacement" it'll be even cheaper.

DIY is ALWAYS the cheapest option. And not sure about BMW (I'd assume they use the same OEM suppliers as MB), but usually you can get away with TWO sets of pads per set of rotors according to my SA, and I would have to agree. 2mm wear between "new" and "replace" is a little unreasonable imho when there is easily 15mm of rotor, not counting the gap. I'm on my 2nd pads right now and everything seems to work fine. (Don't hold me liable you fly off a mountain

)