REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum


Welcome to the REVscene Automotive Forum forums.

Registration is Free!You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! The banners on the left side and below do not show for registered users!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.


Go Back   REVscene Automotive Forum > Automotive Chat > Vancouver Auto Chat

Vancouver Auto Chat 2016 VAC Community Head Moderator: Raid3n

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-23-2010, 04:01 PM   #1
Rs has made me the woman i am today!
 
G-spec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 4,032
Thanked 2,165 Times in 594 Posts
Failed 131 Times in 61 Posts
First E85-Ethanol tuned R35 GTR makes BIG POWER!!!

Not another one of those "hey look at this GTR" threads, serious business for serious gear heads below.

Pasted over from another forum, for those that don't know COBB tuning is one of the leading North American GTR tuners (I think with this test they've proven they are the best)
This also proves how technically advanced the GTR is, as it keeps surpassing everyone's expectations to this day, enjoy the read







Quote:
Originally Posted by COBB Tuning View Post


E85 is a blend of 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. Originally developed as a bio-fuel for "flex fuel" domestic cars in the US, E85 has become the alternative fuel of choice for performance enthusiast. The allure of this biofuel comes from its high octane compared to regular pump fuels - 91 to 94 compared to 105 - and a very low price compared to higher octane race fuels. In many parts of the USA E85 costs as little as 2 dollars per gallon. When compared to 8 to 14 dollars quality high octane race fuels E85 represents a huge bargain.

If you don't know about E85 you're naturally asking the question "why am i not running e85 every day?". The answer is you can't. Most stock vehicles are not calibrated or equipped to utilize ethanol based fuels.

Despite having a higher octane rating, E85 has a lower overall energy density than pure pump fuel. Pure gasoline contains approximately 125,000 BTUs per gallon, while E85 contains approximately 84,000. This means that a greater volume of E85 must be utilized to realize the same energy content. This lower hydrocarbon content is mirrored by the stoichiometry of E85 and pure unleaded gasoline. Complete combustion of pure gasoline requires 14.7 parts air (mixed gas air with 23 percent oxygen) with one part fuel. In contrast, complete combustion of E85 requires a much higher relative content of fuel with only 9.7 parts air required. The distillation of this information means that larger volumes of E85 are required for equivalent combustion when compared to pure pump fuel. Thus, the cost savings associated with lower E85 prices is offset by an overall reduction in fuel economy. (taken from driving sports article "methanol injection vs E85" i wrote the article so i'm plagiarizing my own work. http://www.drivingsports.com/site/2008/07/...anol-injection/


The graph below shows the stochiometry of E85 (lamda) is similar for pump and E85 but the volume of fuel required for E85 is much higher by proportion (Air to fuel ratio).



Despite these limitation of E85 we wanted to tune our GTR to utilize this fuel. Together, the lower cost, higher octane, and higher overall power potential are simply too much to resist. Furthermore, because E85 has not been used in the new GTR platform I simply couldn't resist the technical challenge.

Because a stock GTR can use nearly 100% of its available injector capacity on pump fuel the first step in using E85 is to replace the stock injectors with larger units. We chose to use Deatschwerks 800cc injectors. These are ~30% larger than stock and should be able to provide the additional fuel volume needed for E85.

The injectors were installed and the car tuned on pump fuel:

Stock - completely stock calibration with 92 octane pump fuel - BLUE

Stage 2 800 cc - COBB catless midpipe, COBB prototype cat back exhaust, stock intake, stock fuel pump. - RED



We then drained the tank and refilled with E85 full. I adjusted the calibration with COBB AccessTUNER Pro software and prepared to run the car. The first few runs were done at low boost and all was well.

The calibration was then adjusted for higher boost and we attempted a full run. I aborted the run because the motor went progressively leaner at RPMs and fuel demand increased.


This increasing lean condition clearly points out a lack of fuel delivery. Because our injectors are mathematically ideal for ~30% higher flow it's clear that the stock fuel pumps simply cannot keep up with higher duty cycle with 800cc injectors.

To combat the lack of fuel we installed two walbro 255s in the place of the stock fuel pumps. The installation took about 4 hours total as the stock in tank fuel surge tank needed heavy but straightforward modification.

With new fuel pumps installed we went back to the dyno with high hopes of sufficient fuel delivery. The results are presented in the graph below.


Stock 2009 GTR - 92 octane - BLUE

Stage 2 800 cc - COBB catless midpipe, COBB prototype cat back exhaust, stock intake, stock fuel pump, 800 cc Deatschwerks injectors - RED

Stage 2 800cc - E85 - COBB catless midpipe, COBB prototype cat back exhaust, stock intake, Twin walbro 255 fuel pumps, 800 cc Deatschwerks injectors - GREEN


This E85 Stage 2 configuration is now the highest HP and torque stock turbo car tuned on our Mustang dyno. When the weather clears here in the pacific northwest we'll find some dry test roads and report V-box data. We're also planning to rent a local drag strip for development and testing so ETs and trap speeds are coming.

As a next step we plan to install some custom intakes. If our early observations are correct this car will make more than 600 whp on stock turbo's with E85.... all while retaining the factory downpipes.

Best regards
Tim Bailey
Lead GTR calibrator
Cobb Tuning SurgeLine
Lead GTR calibrator
Advertisement
__________________
(oO:::\___/:::Oo) (DPE-wheels) // Satin Cocaine White
G-spec is offline   Reply With Quote
This post FAILED by:
Old 01-23-2010, 06:14 PM   #2
OMGWTFBBQ is a common word I say everyday
 
GabAlmighty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Coquitlam
Posts: 5,324
Thanked 3,782 Times in 1,242 Posts
Failed 533 Times in 187 Posts
Hennessy > All
__________________
'16 Ram 1500
GabAlmighty is offline   Reply With Quote
This post FAILED by:
Old 01-23-2010, 08:27 PM   #3
Rs has made me the woman i am today!
 
G-spec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 4,032
Thanked 2,165 Times in 594 Posts
Failed 131 Times in 61 Posts
sorry but I'm gonna have to disagree, Hennessey just slaps on a pair of bigger turbos for an unstable, unsafe and unreliable 700hp and calls it a day loosely speaking.

The recent issues he's had with some of his customers coming out speaking against him have gotten to the point of lawsuits against his shop. I think as a result he's been dropped from some of the exotics forums as a sponsor and has lost a lot of credibility among that car community.
__________________
(oO:::\___/:::Oo) (DPE-wheels) // Satin Cocaine White
G-spec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2010, 08:45 PM   #4
My homepage has been set to RS
 
Jackygor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Richmond
Posts: 2,345
Thanked 736 Times in 159 Posts
Failed 89 Times in 25 Posts
E85 is fucken awesome
Jackygor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2010, 09:09 PM   #5
14 dolla balla aint got nothing on me!
 
oinkoinkpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 645
Thanked 238 Times in 53 Posts
Failed 101 Times in 23 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adon View Post
sorry but I'm gonna have to disagree, Hennessey just slaps on a pair of bigger turbos for an unstable, unsafe and unreliable 700hp and calls it a day loosely speaking.

The recent issues he's had with some of his customers coming out speaking against him have gotten to the point of lawsuits against his shop. I think as a result he's been dropped from some of the exotics forums as a sponsor and has lost a lot of credibility among that car community.
you make him sound like Jun Kitami from maximum tune
oinkoinkpig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2010, 10:11 PM   #6
The "You'd Know" Moderator
 
impactX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Home
Posts: 20,931
Thanked 276 Times in 140 Posts
Failed 11 Times in 9 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by GabAlmighty View Post
Hennessy > All
in terms of their lawsuits? yeah
__________________
08 CBR600RR
03 IS300

Ezekiel 25:17. The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you.
impactX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2010, 04:02 AM   #7
HELP ME PLS!!!
 
124Y's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Burnaby
Posts: 5,541
Thanked 1,109 Times in 299 Posts
Failed 192 Times in 41 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackygor View Post
E85 is fucken awesome
Werd!!
124Y is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2010, 11:38 AM   #8
Even when im right, revscene.net is still right!
 
Mr.Jay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Vancity
Posts: 1,317
Thanked 566 Times in 174 Posts
Failed 50 Times in 29 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by GabAlmighty View Post
Hennessy > All
yep good place if you want parts from your car stolen and sold off.


Mines rules all but if its NA only than I agree with COBB beening the best
__________________
Spoiler!
Mr.Jay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 10:51 PM   #9
RS.net, helping ugly ppl have sex since 2001
 
hk20000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Richmond
Posts: 8,645
Thanked 1,357 Times in 508 Posts
Failed 229 Times in 105 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by oinkoinkpig View Post
you make him sound like Jun Kitami from maximum tune
LOL so true.
__________________
⇐ If I bothered replying, that's the face I made while I typed.

  • 2017 Alfa Romeo Giula Q4
  • 1999 Nissan Stagea 260RS 1 of 748
  • 1998 Nissan Laurel Medallion Club S drift boi
  • 1991 Lexus LS400 mint boi
  • 1989 Nissan S-Cargo cute boi
hk20000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 02:37 AM   #10
WOAH! i think Vtec just kicked in!
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bowen Island
Posts: 1,605
Thanked 525 Times in 148 Posts
Failed 313 Times in 50 Posts
Hmm. Reading the OP, since the E85 requires higher burn rate than gas for same amount of BTU, doesn't this mean the carbon emissions should be higher?
achiam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 04:45 AM   #11
Revscene.net has a homepage?!
 
moomooCow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: vancouver
Posts: 1,229
Thanked 156 Times in 53 Posts
Failed 30 Times in 9 Posts
^ I'm not educated in this sense at all but I assume the chemical composition of ethanol is very different from gasoline so even though you're burning more, the overall CO2 levels would be lower.


Upon googling... it seems ethanol might actually "burn dirtier" than gasoline??? Can anyone explain?
moomooCow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 10:06 AM   #12
RabidMod
 
RabidRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 6,364
Thanked 1,504 Times in 531 Posts
Failed 112 Times in 32 Posts
huh. 33% worse fuel efficiency it looks like (84kbtu/gal vs 125kbtu/gal). must run out of gas quick =D
__________________
---
RabidRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 11:41 AM   #13
Zombie Mod
 
Presto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Langley
Posts: 9,890
Thanked 5,175 Times in 1,555 Posts
Failed 120 Times in 54 Posts
Other than tuning the engine to work with E85, I didn't see any mention of changing/upgrading parts, like fuel lines, to accommodate the alcohol.
__________________
Romans 10:9
Presto is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Revscene.net cannot be held accountable for the actions of its members nor does the opinions of the members represent that of Revscene.net