Most unaffordable housing market in the world? Vancouver.

[TypeRNammer]

Originally Posted by hirevtuner

anyone here shocked when they got their bc assessment? or at least parent's place
my parent's house is assessed at $87x,xxx and thats a house in Vancouver east side (renfrew area)

Wow hella expensive, can't imagine how much is my parent's place up in the collingwood area.

[J-Chow]

my parents just had an appraisal for their home last week.
In Richmond by no.1 road around steveston

They bought it in 1990 for $120 xxx
It is now worth $730 xxx.

[Meowjin]

^^ my godmothers place (big lot) on steveston highway, I think got appraised for 1.5 million. She paid 60k for it in the 80's or 70's.

[cheapskate]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

I honestly don't think is worth that much.

Houses in the GVA are definitely outrageously overpriced. One of the easiest methods to gauge whether the increase in house prices in a given market is actually justified is to compare the increase of house prices (in percentage over x years) to the increase in rent prices (in percentage over the same years). In a healthy market, rent prices and home prices should increase/decrease close to par. When they are not in sync, watch out. Case in piont, my parents own 2 rental properties in Vancouver and over the last 8 years, their "value" has almost doubled but rents have barely kept up with inflation. That means, if someone bought a house recently in the GVA as an "investment" and think they can make money by renting it out, it could very well take over a lifetime to recoup all the money you put into your "investment" when you factor in all the costs of ownership. Not to mention all the risks/headaches you incur in the process. (Luckily for my parents, both homes were paid off a long time ago so the books are in the black )

One thing about overpaying for Vancouver real estate: Vancouver is a very unique case in that: (1) it's a relatively well established city and most residents have been living here forever so most home owners have already finished paying off (most) of their mortgages and (2) Vancouver is one of the most sought after destinations for the "creative class" (i.e. artists, engineers, scientists, etc.) in the world. These and many other factors make Vancouver property prices MUCH LESS volatile. So potential buyers will definitely be overpaying, but they are also paying for (relative) stability.

The OPPOSITE conditions apply to Vancouver's suburbs. [Think: suburbs tend to be populated by blue collar/service sector/recent immigrant peeps, the very sectors/people that are most vulnerable to globalization] Many professional wealth managers believe that it's just a matter of time before the suburbs (nation wide) will implode and will not be able to recover significantly in our lifetimes (if they ever do).

It's also important to note that if you LOVE living in Vancouver (or anywhere else for that matter) and have a good job, then the Vancouver premium may very well be worth it since you are not looking at your home as an investment but as a place to live (i.e. everyone who buys a Porsche understands that they are paying a huge premium for the brand but they make the purchase anyways).

[skyxx]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

My parents house is worth around 72x xxxk I think (From the gov estmiate). Located in Burnaby (BCIT, by Canada way). Which seems pretty crazy to me I mean the house is nice and all but I honestly don't think is worth that much.

Government assessed prices are not even what they sell on the market. You can probably sell your properly for just over 800k Though with recent statistics it seems like you can't get much more margin from your assessed price. Interesting...

Then again, you can't find a house similar to yours with the money you made from selling it.

[cheapskate]

Originally Posted by skyxx

Then again, you can't find a house similar to yours with the money you made from selling it.

This is really big. Unless you're willing to move to the suburbs/boonies (shudders) then the increase in house prices can very well be a negative thing (esp. if your family income doesn't go up every year) because the cost of living in the same home keeps going up. (i.e. property taxes are calculated as a percentage of the value of your home). In short, the cost of living in the same house keeps going up year after year for no "apparent" reason.

[Euro7r]

The third least affordable city to live in the world.

[cheapskate]

Originally Posted by Euro7r

The third least affordable city to live in the world.

This is touted in the media all the time but it's taken way out of context. Vancouver is one of the most desired cities to live in IN THE WORLD, it will thus be priced accordingly. You are getting some of the best amenities you can get anywhere in the world. The diversity of our restaurants alone is mind boggling, (and tummy rolling for foodies). Being able to work/live/play within walking distance; Having a "central park" smack in the middle of downtown; having a beautiful seawall and to being able to feel the ocean's breeze is worth a lot to many people.

But anyways, the important point is that living in Vancouver can be very affordable, and one can have a very comfortable life too. One just has to be smart about it (i.e. renting in Vancouver is a absolute STEAL). And because Vancouver is so nicely compact, one can easily do away with the car (or share). And eating out is the best part of living in Vancouver, the competition is so fierce that one can get amazingly delicious foods @ great prices that you can't even dream of getting in the suburbs (at any price).

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by cheapskate

This is touted in the media all the time but it's taken way out of context. Vancouver is one of the most desired cities to live in IN THE WORLD, it will thus be priced accordingly. You are getting some of the best amenities you can get anywhere in the world. The diversity of our restaurants alone is mind boggling, (and tummy rolling for foodies). Being able to work/live/play within walking distance; Having a "central park" smack in the middle of downtown; having a beautiful seawall and to being able to feel the ocean's breeze is worth a lot to many people.

I agree with what you said, but that's because I was born and raised here and thus biased. What about a place like New York where the same degree of diversity exists, but the jobs and opportunities are much greater? Or, what about London which has history, a comprehensive transportation system, some diversity, etc.?

[cheapskate]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

I agree with what you said, but that's because I was born and raised here and thus biased. What about a place like New York where the same degree of diversity exists, but the jobs and opportunities are much greater? Or, what about London which has history, a comprehensive transportation system, some diversity, etc.?

I've traveled to Hong Kong, New York and my family is originally from Guangzhou area and my home is Vancouver.

Each one of these destinations has their own unique combination of traits that makes them extremely desirable to the emerging "creative class."

Vancouver is very competitive mostly because of our superb city planning which is very rare in North America (the original designers of our city were very far sighted and they did not want our city to resemble the American suburban configuration. Instead they modelled our city after the great European cities characterized by high density, abundant natural spaces, short traveling times, and mixed use neighbourhoods). This type of city design offers many very desirable benefits that simply cannot be "bought" (Think the nightmare that is LA or the dolts that live in Langley and travel 5 hours a day to/fro work).

Second, Vancouver home buyers understand that they are not simply buying a plot of very expensive land. They are buying the awesome natural landscape that accompanies it. There are very few cities in the world in which one can go skiing at a 5 star resort, take a boat ride out to sea, go for a stroll on a magnificent sea wall, hike in pristine parks, and choose among the plethora of great restaurants to have dinner-with snow capped mountains as a backdrop. All in a single day.

There are very few places in the world in which you can get all these amenities, at any price. And this is precisely why Vancouver doesn't need Fortune 500 companies stationed here in order to justify the cost of living here. The creative class is defined by just that, being creative. This class of people are the movers and shakers of the new economy, not the suits working in cubicles of yesteryear (with the exception being the guys working on Wall Street LOL). The creative class tends to work in smaller, globalized companies, work from project to project, or alone. More often than not, these artists also prefer to work from home. In sum, the artist, unlike the organization man, can oftentimes be difficult to spot but hot spots can very easily be identified, not by the presence of large corporate buildings but the by the sheer multitude and diversity of cafes and boutique shops. And on this front, Vancouver is clearly a leader.

[cheapskate]

One other benefit of living Vancouver (and other similar cities) is that as energy costs inevitably increase (due to global warming, competition from China/India, etc.) Vancouver residents will be affected least. Just imagine when gas prices double, or triple and you live in the suburbs and have to drive hours every day to get to/fro work/drop kids off to school/grocery shopping etc. In addition, because you live so far form everything, your household is likely to have more than one vehicle which exacerbates the problem further. Families that live in the 'burbs will have no choice but to pony up whatever the gas companies demand for the price of oil because building good public transportation is not feasible in low density areas i.e. suburbia. And that could be more than many families can afford, and then you are in real trouble.

[Meowjin]

Are you a real estate agent?

I can't put my finger on it, but there is something off about your post.

[cheapskate]

Originally Posted by MajinHurricane

Are you a real estate agent?

I can't put my finger on it, but there is something off about your post.

I am an aspiring political scientist/professor/writer/comentator. My limited knowledge in investing is from reading books and talking to rich people (as defined by real wealth and not just bling Re: The Millionaire Next Door). Though I do think that we all need at least a elementary understanding of investing lest we be slaves to money/employers our entire lives.

Also if I were a agent, wouldn't I encourage people to buy? LOL. In my posts, I am recommending people to rent (in Vancouver) and invest their money elsewhere.

[Nightwalker]

If Vancouver weren't notoriously boring, it would be a lot more attractive for the "creatives" you speak of.

[PJ]

Originally Posted by cheapskate

I am an aspiring political scientist/professor/writer/comentator. My limited knowledge in investing is from reading books and talking to rich people (as defined by real wealth and not just bling Re: The Millionaire Next Door). Though I do think that we all need at least a elementary understanding of investing lest we be slaves to money/employers our entire lives.

^ I've been investing for a while and have made big strides. And everything I've learned was through reading through the underlying basics. (Taking Micro and Macro econ helped a lot too.) Reading up on it and winning/losing is the only way you will truly learn.

I personally disagree on the "talking to rich people." 9 out of 10 "rich people" will not tell you exactly how they got there. I mean, if you had your own refined way that was making you big money, would you share it? There's always exceptions of course, (family members, etc.) But most others will just tell you "investing and saving" in a fancier way.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by Nightwalker

If Vancouver weren't notoriously boring, it would be a lot more attractive for the "creatives" you speak of.

There are many days when the same thing goes through my mind, but then a day like today comes along and makes me forget all the negatives about Vancouver. I just ran 10K during my lunch break in the best urban park in the country. Cheapskate has a point - if you're established here, Vancouver is very good if you take advantage of nature.

If nightlife is your thing, Vancouver is of course boring. One of the major things holding us back is rampant complaining and NIMBYism. You want a jazz club in your neighbourhood? Tough luck because the neighbours will complain about noise.

[MrGoodbar]

Originally Posted by cheapskate

IN THE WORLD

Did anyone else read this in their head in Jeremy Clarkson's voice?

[Death2Theft]

There arn't many sports you can't do in vancouver within a 1 hour drive, yet it amazes me the amount of people that dont do snowsports but were also born here...
Vancouver is boring.... compared to the happening island? All the club goers complaining? I could care less if we didn't have any clubs, then at least we wouldn't have to deal with gunshots every week.

[skyxx]

Originally Posted by MajinHurricane

^^ my godmothers place (big lot) on steveston highway, I think got appraised for 1.5 million. She paid 60k for it in the 80's or 70's.

I will never touch Richmond. There's too many natural variables to play with.

[bengy]

Originally Posted by Death2Theft

There arn't many sports you can't do in vancouver within a 1 hour drive, yet it amazes me the amount of people that dont do snowsports but were also born here...
Vancouver is boring.... compared to the happening island? All the club goers complaining? I could care less if we didn't have any clubs, then at least we wouldn't have to deal with gunshots every week.

Who's we dude? You've had to deal with any shootings? Is it hard on your conscience or something? Can't sleep at night?

Better not go to IGA either, shootings happen there as well apparently.

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by cheapskate

This type of city design offers many very desirable benefits that simply cannot be "bought" (Think the nightmare that is LA or the dolts that live in Langley and travel 5 hours a day to/fro work).

Funny... I used to commute from Langley to DT Van for a couple years. Took me no more than 45 minutes each way. You can keep your shoebox apartment with a view of Grouse. I'm content with having a large house on a nice plot of land that's covered in trees. It's nice being able to have your own garage/driveway to work on cars during the day, and a backyard where I can light up my firepit at night and have a giant bonfire with a dozen buddies without having to worry about keeping the neighbours awake.

It's not like living here keeps me from going up to Whistler to snowboard... or hiking the Grouse Grind... or eating some fusion food on Robson. I simply prefer to live surrounded by green and in a yard that's affordable, not surrounded by a glass and concrete jungle.

But that's simply my opinion.

[Death2Theft]

We as the tax payers and the city of Vancouver. I bet shootings would also go down if they only allowed residents of Vancouver into Vancouver clubs.
You could also fall into the toilet and drown. Which is more likely?

Originally Posted by bengy

Who's we dude? You've had to deal with any shootings? Is it hard on your conscience or something? Can't sleep at night?

Better not go to IGA either, shootings happen there as well apparently.

[Death2Theft]

Obviously you havn't been commuting during the construction, then again once it's finished it might drop back down to 45mins. Whats an extra 1.5 hours a day, 7.5 hours a week provided you dont go in on the weekend, 30 hours a month, 360 hours a year... 15 days for 24hr days. You've just lost 15 days of your life commuting in bumper to bumper in a year.
Lets say you get 8 hours of sleep, 8 hours of work,2 hour daily commute, 1 hour eating, 1 hour excersize and 20 hours of your day is accounted for. Enjoy the remaining 4. For anyone living in the real world you know i'm being conservative you probally spend alot more time commuting than what i've just crunched up. If there is an accident or construction delays your time only goes up never down.

So your saving what 300k by living out in the sticks? Lets say u earn 25$/hr OT at time and a half 37.5hr x the 360 hours u wasted per year= 13.5k extra x 25 year average mortgage about 337.5k. Oh and you wont be buying gas/oil/tires/maintenance and putting shitload of milage on your car, thats gotta be worth at least 500$ a month? Judging by all the big gas trucks I see people commuting it probally 1k at least. Another 6k x 25 years = 150k. Spend 150k more on your car earn 337.5k less in OT time which you'll be commutting. Yeah thats a great deal!

So you get a big fat backyard to enjoy what 7 hours a week? Since it rains like crazy your probally not even going to get that much use out of it.
Lets just say you'll wind up spending more time commuting than you will in your yard. So you better enjoy it.

I'll stick to Vancouver. Makes much more sense to work in the burbs if you plan on living there. Then come into the big city on the weekends to go crazy and let the vpd deal with it.

Originally Posted by Lomac

Funny... I used to commute from Langley to DT Van for a couple years. Took me no more than 45 minutes each way. You can keep your shoebox apartment with a view of Grouse. I'm content with having a large house on a nice plot of land that's covered in trees. It's nice being able to have your own garage/driveway to work on cars during the day, and a backyard where I can light up my firepit at night and have a giant bonfire with a dozen buddies without having to worry about keeping the neighbours awake.

It's not like living here keeps me from going up to Whistler to snowboard... or hiking the Grouse Grind... or eating some fusion food on Robson. I simply prefer to live surrounded by green and in a yard that's affordable, not surrounded by a glass and concrete jungle.

But that's simply my opinion.

[Anjew]

not to mention ... goto china and try to get the same quality....

[Mr.HappySilp]

Is kinda of sad too when the people who are buying houses aren't even in the city. I got an Uncle who does business in China/HK. Not super rich but certain rich. He just purchase his 3rd house in Vancouver. But he doesn't even live here O_o. He comes maybe like once every few months and the rest of the time he got someone to look after his house. Sigh..........