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01-27-2010, 11:48 AM
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#51 | | I answer every Emotion with an emoticon
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I think the reason why Westerner makes shitty cars lies with their belief system. Most common Westerners treat their job only as a way to make money. Whereas the Asian counterparts take pride in their jobs. This alone can make a world of difference.
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01-27-2010, 11:52 AM
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#52 | | I *heart* Revscene.net very Muchie
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Originally Posted by q0192837465  I think the reason why Westerner makes shitty cars lies with their belief system. Most common Westerners treat their job only as a way to make money. Whereas the Asian counterparts take pride in their jobs. This alone can make a world of difference. |  | |
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01-27-2010, 12:00 PM
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#53 | | I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
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Are Toyotas truly drive-by wire? The article mentioned the pedals were "mechanically sticking".
With that said, that's one heck of a recall.
I read in an article somewhere (I think Time Magazine? will try to find link) talking about the CEO of Toyota being afraid of something like this happening. Your company rises to the top then gets overconfident, only to start "tumbling" and get replaced by a competitor after a few years. Kind of like marathon athletes/cyclists who slow down when they think they're in first place, only to choke at the last second and fall to second as they pass the finish line.
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01-27-2010, 12:06 PM
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#54 | | racing & tech mod.
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Originally Posted by q0192837465 I think the reason why Westerner makes shitty cars lies with their belief system. Most common Westerners treat their job only as a way to make money. Whereas the Asian counterparts take pride in their jobs. This alone can make a world of difference. | I think it's racist bullshit to say that westerners do not take pride in their work, but asians do. In fact, I see more cheap 'made in china' garbage than I do see similar american stuff.
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01-27-2010, 12:10 PM
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#55 | | hoppity HOP HOP
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Originally Posted by cococly Check your data, VW has become the biggest automaker in the world at the end of 2009. | What do you mean by 'biggest'? Most sales? Most marques owned?
Toyota still trumps Volkswagen in global sales: Quote: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aSk5fevzcmts
Jan. 25 (Bloomberg) -- Toyota Motor Corp., the world’s biggest carmaker, said 2009 vehicle sales including those of affiliates fell 13 percent as the global recession sapped demand.
Toyota sold 7.81 million vehicles worldwide last year, compared with 8.97 million a year earlier, the company said today. Sales declined in the U.S. and Japan, Toyota’s two biggest markets, while rising in China, which passed the U.S. as the world’s largest auto market last year.
Falling demand for Toyota cars compares with record sales last year for Volkswagen AG, which aims to overtake the Japanese carmaker in global sales by 2018. Europe’s largest carmaker sold 6.29 million cars and sport-utility vehicles worldwide, an increase of 1.1 percent from 2008, sales chief Christian Klingler said on Jan. 11.
A global recession helped drag industrywide U.S. auto sales down 21 percent last year to 10.4 million units, the fewest since 1982, according to Autodata Corp. The slump caused the predecessor of Detroit-based General Motors Co. to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. Toyota ended GM’s 77-year reign as the world’s biggest carmaker in 2008.
Toyota’s U.S. sales fell for most of 2009, rising only in the last three months of the year and in August, helped by the government’s “cash for clunkers” rebate program.
For the year, Toyota’s U.S. sales dropped 20 percent to 1.77 million units, according to Autodata. GM’s sales fell 30 percent to 2.06 million, according to Autodata.
Toyota’s sales in Japan dropped 6.7 percent to 1.35 million units. The Japanese carmaker’s sales in China gained 21 percent to 709,000. VW boosted China sales 37 percent last year to 1.4 million.
| AND it turns out Toyota in europe is affected too: Quote: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB2000...658649384.html
Toyota will expand its recall of vehicles with defective gas pedals to Europe, a person close to the matter said Monday. The person said Toyota expects to recall roughly two million vehicles in Europe.
"As a part of the recall we are obliged to suspend [U.S.] sales if we do not have a remedy," said Mr. Michels.
Such a large and public quality problem is a big blow for Toyota, a company that last year passed General Motors Co. to become the world's largest auto maker by sales and for years leveraged its reputation for quality to pull customers from GM, Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler Group LLC.
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01-27-2010, 12:16 PM
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#56 | | WOAH! i think Vtec just kicked in!
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Originally Posted by Rich Sandor I think it's racist bullshit to say that westerners do not take pride in their work, but asians do. In fact, I see more cheap 'made in china' garbage than I do see similar american stuff. | Factory workers in China are paid pennies compared to what factory workers in America are paid... or did you forget? 
Now made in Japan, on the other hand...
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01-27-2010, 12:49 PM
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#57 | | Rs has made me the man i am today!
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Originally Posted by Rich Sandor I think it's racist bullshit to say that westerners do not take pride in their work, but asians do. In fact, I see more cheap 'made in china' garbage than I do see similar american stuff. | westerners = asian americans, mexican americans, african americans, italian americans. you get the idea.
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01-27-2010, 01:13 PM
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#58 | | Banned (BBM)
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Originally Posted by min.tee Factory workers in China are paid pennies compared to what factory workers in America are paid... or did you forget?
Now made in Japan, on the other hand... | hence why made in china shit are a joke
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01-27-2010, 04:36 PM
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#59 | | I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
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this incident is an inside job paid by GM
j/k
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01-27-2010, 05:15 PM
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#60 | | Banned (BBM)
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| lol nice, to boost up their sales and make toyota crash?
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01-27-2010, 05:29 PM
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#61 | | I Will not Admit my Addiction to RS
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Originally Posted by Iceman-19 Had that idiot california cop never heard of neutral and the brake pedel? | Did that idiot Iceman even read the actual facts of what happened?
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01-28-2010, 07:20 AM
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#62 | | I *heart* Revscene.net very Muchie
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Toyota's really fucked now:
When you start recalling in China, there's a big problem.. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...toryCollection
By MARIKO SANCHANTA
TOKYO—The crisis facing Toyota Motor Corp. deepened Thursday as the company said its large-scale recall, stemming from a faulty accelerator pedal problem, would spread to Europe and China.
The geographic reach and size of Toyota's recall has grown dramatically in recent days, raising questions about how many of its vehicles around the world are equipped with the defective accelerator pedal.
The Japanese auto maker said it will recall an unknown number of vehicles in Europe. But unlike the U.S. market, where production will be halted for at least a week, different parts are already being used in new vehicles in Europe and production will continue as normal, the embattled car maker said.
In China, one of Toyota's joint ventures will recall 75,552 RAV4 sport-utility vehicles, the country's quality watchdog said.
"Toyota is making every effort to address this situation for our customers as quickly as possible," the auto maker said in a statement.
In the U.S., Toyota announced it was expanding a recall announced late last year involving pedals catching on floor mats. That recall originally affected 4.3 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles, making it the company`s biggest recall ever. Toyota added 1.1 million more vehicles to that recall on Wednesday, representing four models.
The move came as Fitch Ratings, the credit-ratings agency, placed Toyota's A-plus debt rating—two notches below a perfect triple-A rating—on a "negative" ratings watch.
The recent recalls and sales suspension casts "a negative light on Toyota's reputation for quality," said Jeong Min Pak, senior director in Fitch's Asia-Pacific Corporates team. "This could hamper the company's potential sales and profitability recovery, especially in the U.S. market."
Standard & Poor's and Moody's, rival ratings agencies which have Toyota rated at double-A and AA1 respectively, said they had no immediate plans to either downgrade Toyota's debt rating or put it under a ratings watch.
But S&P added in a statement that "the suspension may put downward pressure on Toyota`s earnings, which we believe have entered a recovery phase." Investors seemed to conclude the same. The auto maker's stock price continued to slide Thursday, falling 3.9% in trading on the Tokyo Stock Exchange. The company's shares have fallen 15% over the past five trading days, since news of the latest recalls began to spread.
The markets appear to see Toyota's pain as opportunity for rivals' gain. Nissan Motor Co. and Honda Motor Co.'s shares both closed up nearly 3% on Thursday, outperforming the broader Nikkei 225 benchmark average.
Even so, Toyota's two biggest Japanese rivals firmly ruled out offering incentives to take advantage of their peer's woes, as they hope to gain sales without calling attention to what could be seen as a broader slip in Japanese quality.
"We will not undertake any sales activities that expressly target Toyota customers in the U.S.," a Honda spokeswoman said. A Nissan spokesman also said the company wouldn't embark on any specific sales of marketing activities, despite the recall crisis facing Toyota.
That is a contrast with Ford Motor Co. and General Motor Co., both of which have launched new incentives to snatch some market share back from the world's biggest car maker. Ford said it would offer new customers $1,000 cash to trade-in used or leased vehicles from Toyota, while GM detailed a similar program earlier Wednesday.
"Toyota is the standard-bearer for Japanese autos. If you are Honda and Nissan, it doesn't help to play it up because people would ask, 'Do all Japanese cars have problems?'" said Chris Richter, autos analyst at CLSA Asia Pacific Markets. "U.S. makers have faced decades of share erosion because of Japanese cars—now they have a chance to say, 'Japanese cars aren't as good, so buy America.'"
Meanwhile, the recalls slamming Toyota in the U.S. and Europe don't appear likely to spread to its home market. The Japanese transportation ministry isn't yet considering a probe related to Toyota's massive recall in the U.S.
The ministry believes that the parts that have caused problems in the U.S. are made locally and aren't used in Toyota cars sold in Japan, said an official there, who asked not to be identified. "It is our view that there is no need for a specific action at this point," the official added.
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01-28-2010, 08:45 AM
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#63 | | I *heart* Revscene.net very Muchie
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If this was Ford they wouldn't do a thing because they'd figure it's cheaper to get sued on a handful of cases.
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01-28-2010, 08:55 AM
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#64 | | Banned (BBM)
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toyota definitely fucked themself up big time
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01-28-2010, 10:03 AM
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#66 | | I *heart* Revscene.net very Muchie
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Originally Posted by Mancini If this was Ford they wouldn't do a thing because they'd figure it's cheaper to get sued on a handful of cases. | Ford has learned from their PR mistakes from back in the 70s.
Check out their recent performance: http://www.autonet.ca/autos/news/201...645246-ap.html
DEARBORN, Mich. - Ford (NYSE:F), the only U.S. automaker to avoid bankruptcy court, clawed its way to a US$2.7-billion profit in 2009 and expects to stay in the black in 2010. It was the automaker's first annual profit in four years.
Not bad for a Us company that did not take any bailouts. I think Ford deserves another chance after the 1970 mess.
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01-28-2010, 02:11 PM
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#67 | | I answer every Emotion with an emoticon
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wow, lowered credit ratings. Good time to buy bonds
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01-28-2010, 02:13 PM
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#68 | | I *heart* Revscene.net very Muchie
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^or short the shit out of them :P
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01-28-2010, 02:18 PM
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#69 | | they call me the snowman
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Ford is now caught up in the recall, since the Explorer uses CTS brand pedals. Their share price dropped today, and may continue to do so.
Ford was a nice story since they didn't take any money. I sold my Ford shares recently, and almost regretted it. But for those paying attention, it may be a good time to buy into a severely under rated company.
Long: Ford
Short: Toyota
On a side note, I just bought this a month ago. 
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01-28-2010, 02:25 PM
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#70 | | resident Oil Guru
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Originally Posted by impactX Some people just don't know how to turn the ignition off. | Dumb idea. ES350 has a push start which needs 3-4seconds of holding down for the car to shut off. In a panic situation, that won't work for you.
Also, do you really want to lose power steering, power brakes, and have a chance at the steering wheel lock up on you? (When you turn it about 1/4 turn, the steering wheel locks). Complete loss of control.
Much better idea is to shift to neutral, then brake.
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01-28-2010, 02:38 PM
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#71 | | Head of HR....have a seat on that couch
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Originally Posted by originalhypa Ford is now caught up in the recall, since the Explorer uses CTS brand pedals. Their share price dropped today, and may continue to do so.
Ford was a nice story since they didn't take any money. I sold my Ford shares recently, and almost regretted it. But for those paying attention, it may be a good time to buy into a severely under rated company. | I caught a piece on a Detroit channel that said the only Ford that had this issue was some commercial cargo van (think Dodge Sprinter style). If the Explorer is part of this then yeah, that sucks for them. In the same piece they said Ford turned a $2Billion profit in '09 and they were picking up. 
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01-28-2010, 03:06 PM
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#72 | | racing & tech mod.
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to clarify:
The Ford Transit Classic made in China uses the same CTS accellerator that caused problems in the Toyotas. The Transit Classic has not had ANY issues with the accellerator pedals to date. The Transit Classic (made in China) is NOT the same as the Transit Connect (made in Turkey and sold in North America). Ford is not halting sale or production of any north american vehicles.
I'm not sure where you got your info about the Explorer using CTS pedals.. I can't find anything online...
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01-28-2010, 03:07 PM
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#73 | | Banned (BBM)
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Originally Posted by LiquidTurbo Dumb idea. ES350 has a push start which needs 3-4seconds of holding down for the car to shut off. In a panic situation, that won't work for you.
Also, do you really want to lose power steering, power brakes, and have a chance at the steering wheel lock up on you? (When you turn it about 1/4 turn, the steering wheel locks). Complete loss of control.
Much better idea is to shift to neutral, then brake. | but if the breaks worked the people that had sticky accelerator wouldn've crashed now would they?
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01-28-2010, 03:52 PM
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#74 | | I *heart* Revscene.net very Muchie
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^When your car's under WOT (that's essentialyl what happens with the 'sudden acceleration'), you lose all vacuum functions.. including your brakes... In some cars, when a brake signal is applied simultaneously with the gas pedal, the ECU would reduce the throttle.. Such safety mechanisms does not exist in a Toyota apparently..
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01-28-2010, 04:10 PM
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#75 | | WOAH! i think Vtec just kicked in!
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Originally Posted by Mugen EvOlutioN hence why made in china shit are a joke | Exactly.
And I don't know why I was failed for that post.  | |
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