How many Fords have you had, and what models where they?

FYI, it does make a difference which dealer you go to. Some service managers will go the extra mile to help the customer get a resolution through warranty, some don't bother.

And FYI#2, if you think it's a Ford-only problem, you are naive. My friends have had the same kind of problems with GM and Toyota.

I own a 2005 Mustang, my father had a 1991 Taurus :haha:

Taurus went through 4 transmissions , various electrical issues and finally died an untimely death on the port man with a cracked block.

I bought the stang in Richmond, started service in BBY at Coastal Ford. After constant bickering with the shop foreman, I tried Metro Ford in Coq and Brown Brothers Ford. As soon as they ran the VIN thru the OASIS, i shit you not, they said they were not going to get involved. Whatever issues I had with Coastal , they had to sort it out and essentially I was stuck with Coastal Ford.

My car reeked inside the cabin of unburnt fuel and they couldn't figure out the problem and wanted me to continue driving it until something else broke , the warranty expired, or until i died crashing into something or someone.

I had to threaten, THREATEN the general manager of Coastal Ford with a lawsuit before he was willing to get on the Ford hotline to deal with the issues at hand.

Every manufacturer has issues with cars, and that is a given. How they treat customers after the sale is the biggest issue for me and that is where Ford has failed me.

IMO you can't judge Ford based on your experience with a 20-year-old vehicle that was notoriously awful to begin with. Ford today is a very different company than the one that was pumping out rubbish vehicles in the late 80's and early 90's.

Sounds like a terrible experience. Coastal Ford obviously didn't handle the situation well. That being said, you have to remember that dealerships are franchised... what you experience at one dealer may be completely different from another. Had you bought from Brown Bros in the first place, for instance, your problems may have been solved much sooner. Also, you mention that you got eventually got in touch with the Ford hotline - did they fix your problem? If so, then it sounds like Ford itself is not a bad company, but rather that particular dealership was trying to avoid dealing with your car's problems and wouldn't budge until they got an ultimatum from Ford.

For what it's worth, my stepdad owns a 2007 F-350. A few months ago, a local dealership told him not to worry about a very slow coolant leak coming from under the hood. Turns out one of the radiators was cracked, and he had to have it replaced (cost: $1600) at a dealership in Arizona while on a road trip. While driving to Arizona, his vehicle passed the 100,000-km mark, and thus was out of warranty. Upon returning home, he asked the dealership to reimburse him, and they refused. He then called the Ford 1-800 number (found in his vehicle manual) and Ford promptly reimbursed him for the $1600 radiator replacement. I'm sure the dealership that refused to pay was sent the bill, as it was their fault the part was not replaced when the leak was first detected.

Moral of the story: it's not fair to judge a brand based on a single dealership. The same is true of all brands. Hell, the local independent BMW shop where I get my car serviced actually refuses to due business with Victoria BMW, because they have a "no returns" policy on special order parts. Instead, they order all parts from Park Shore BMW because Park Shore will allow for product returns. If you only dealt with the service/parts department at Victoria BMW, you'd probably think that BMW was the worst manufacturer on the planet. It's pretty much akin to judging a store based on one cashier who happens to be having a bad day. The other 25 cashiers on staff might all be friendly, so you wouldn't want to declare the store rubbish until you've returned and given it a few more tries.

If post-purchase customer service is your biggest concern, then you should be researching the dealership and talking to the service guys before you buy your car. That's the only way you'll know if you're going to be treated fairly. (Or, you could buy from a company with strict franchisee policies, like Toyota).

On a side note, I recently read a story about the first Lexus recall in North America. It was back when Lexus first broke into the market, and there was an issue with the flagship LS sedan. Lexus was so concerned with brand image that they instructed all dealerships to personally phone owners of LS vehicles and inform them individually (rather than sending a canned letter like most manufacturers). Lexus then arranged to pick up the vehicles from the owner's houses, fix the recalled parts for free, and drop them back off. In one case, they had to fly a mechanic from Los Angeles to Alaska in order to service a customer's car. Now THAT'S service.

Our dealership had a service manager for several years under whom our service department satisfaction rating had fallen to 28%. She was replaced by our current service manager and the customer satisfaction rating has been in the 90% range for the last year now. So my point is, even within the same dealership you can have varying experiences with the service department. That said, we currently have service and sales customers from well outside of the North Shore coming to do business with us.. so obviously we are doing something right!

It sucks that you had a bad experience with your dad's taurus and your own mustang.. that shouldn't happen no matter where you buy the car or what brand it is..

As Amaru mentioned, Ford is a very different company from what it was in the 80's and 90's. There is now a very real awareness of what level of quality, reliabilty and satisfaction needs to be achieved to maintain the reputation and profitability of the brand. The manufacturer will now do more to enforce those standards upon the dealerships as needed. Oftentimes, a call to Ford's customer service line will have the dealership scrambling to find a resolution.

I will shut up after this post because we've got a bit off topic :p

Ford dealership couldn't figure out the problem ( and it was costing them time and $ )

Ford headquarters + 1-800 hotline couldn't figure out the problem for the longest time and got dis-interested.

Both dealership and headquarters wanted to use my car as a rolling test bed for problems they have never seen before ( tranny + cylinder head ) but wouldn't compensate me with either money or a courtesy car.

I told them to screw off.

Eventually they flew a tech out to assess, but it dragged out to a 3+ month process.

In the end my car got fixed, but like Rich and Amaru said...the dealership has a HUGE role in customer satisfaction and it's sad that I had to threaten them + headquarters with a lawsuit before anything came out of it.

But i'm done now :D

Eventually I will want to trade in my 4.6 for a used 5.0, but it will probably won't be til 2012/2013 heh.

The problem is that you end up buying a car that's potentially 10 years old (especially in the case of the E46). That is an old car when you're considering purchasing a new sports car. The issues by going that route is 1) You don't know the repair history, unless the PO was absolutely meticulous with keeping records, and, 2) That car would now be at a point where some major parts would likely need to be replaced (suspension, TB/TC, syncro's may be wearing thin, LSD/rear diff may be leaking, etc etc). At least with a new car you have a warranty that should cover almost anything that breaks.

A 2006 model vehicle is not 10 years old, it's four years old. If you're going to buy a 2001 e46 m3, then you're going to to get a very good price. I understand your point, and it's personal preference at the end of the day... some people like a brand new car. But it's not necessarily the "best" decision financially, nor will you be getting the "best" car necessarily.

Cars are cheap nowadays. How about a 2004 G35 coupe, fully loaded, 6spd, no accidents, 65,000km? Asking $24k...

Maybe you wanna go for the bling with a 2004 BMW 645i, 72,000km, clean title? Asking $28k...

Or maybe a 2006 G35 coupe, 52,000km, no accidents? Asking $28k...

Or, if you prefer something newer, a fully loaded 2007 BMW 335i with 70,000km on the clock? Asking $32k...

What about this 2007 335i coupe, fully loaded, 88,000kms, extended warranty? Asking $31k...

Although it's certainly a matter of opinion, you'd have to think most of those cars would be more pleasurable to own than a base V6 Mustang, at least for a car enthusiast. Unless you're really sold on solid rear axles.

You make a good point about the condition of the vehicle, but you also failed to address my previous post where I mentioned the concept of depreciation. In order for the Mustang to be a better buy, at least in the short term, the alternative options (ie. M3, G35, 335, etc) would need to cost more in maintenance than the Mustang did in depreciation.

Simple example:

1) You buy the Mustang for $30k after tax. You own it for 4 years/80,000km. Over that time the vehicle costs you $2,000 in additional maintenance beyond the warranty. You sell it for $13k. You "lose" $17k for depreciation and $2k in maintenance. Total cost to own is $19,000.

2) You buy the second 2007 335i listed above for $30k after tax, and own it for the same 4 years/80,000km. It costs you $7k in maintenance beyond the warranty. You sell it for $19k. You "lose" $11k in depreciation, and $8k in maintenance. Total cost is $19,000.

You've paid the same amount to own the vehicle for four years. But if you choose option 2, you get to drive what is (arguably) a far more enjoyable and more "prestigious" vehicle.

I realize that the option #1 becomes more appealing if you don't care about driving pleasure, or if you really value the smell of new leather. That's fine. But I have a hard time accepting that it's a "better" decision, especially for a car enthusiast.

(Flame retardant disclaimer: BMW haters fuck off. It is an example. Replace it for any comparable vehicle of any make.)

Wat.

Wtf does used vs new car have to do with mustangs?!

Coles Notes:

Dude1 - "I might get a new V6 Mustang"

Me - "Don't bother, get a V8 instead, or some other used car for the same $$"

Dude1 - "But I prefer to avoid maintenance costs"

Me - "When you factor in depreciation, the costs are similar or less for a used vehicle"

Dude2 - "But it'll be used, and require maintenance"

Me - "But you can still get a 'better' car used and it'll end up costing the same even if you pay 4 times more for maintenance"

Final Verdict:

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/fan_shot_im...t_argument.jpg

Motor Trend magazine just did a comparison test for V6 and V8 RWD coupes. the V8 Mustang won against the Camaro SS and Challenger SRT8, but the V6 Mustang lost out to the Hyundai Genesis.

someone asked about prices... a full load 2011 5.0 Mustang convertible just showed up in the classifieds for just under $50k :eek:

There is a lot of mention about why not the G35 coupe. I like the car, but I can't stand the interior. I would be all over the new G37 but that is way out of my price range. Also no to the 350Z because I need a back seat.

I did look at e46 M3's before, but my budget is just too low (mid $30k range) and the 3 examples that I had chosen to get inspected all failed (1. bad VANOS, 2. cracked rear subframe (owner/seller lied right to my face right up to the second i pointed it out while it was on the hoist) 3. autowest had 15 pages of warranty repair work, with an engine replacement weeks before the powertrain coverage expired) ... so I gave up :cry:

I don't know enough about the 335i. I only know one person at work with one and she is not happy with it. Something about her fuel pump blowing up and leaving her stranded and it burns 7 to 8 quarts of oil between service intervals :(

I will admit I hadn't really taken into account how much depreciation the Mustang suffers over time.

I'd buy the V6 and turbo it. Fuck the MPG, as long as i can get more then 250km a tank im happy. I'd rather have 400+ boosted power than N/A. Also, sounds nicer then N/A :p, unless your into raw muscle power.

Yes, the G35 interior is a bit lacking, but what are you expecting from a base-model Mustang V6? Granted, the new Ford interiors look very nice, and it may be a notch above the G35.... but I don't think you're going to be blown away by the build quality.

For $35,000 you can get a very very nice late-model E46 M3 in excellent condition. (Example: Black, 2004, 6-spd, 49,000km...). About a year ago friend of mine bought a local mint-condition 2003 M3 (6-spd) with 55,000km on the odometer. He's put on 30,000km since then and to my knowledge has not spent a dime aside from replacing the tires.

Also, not quite sure what the deal was with those M3's you looked at. Like any used car, some will have been abused, and some will be "lemons". But the M3 as a whole is not a particularly bad car, especially the 03+ model years which had fewer recalls and good reliability. The engine itself is typically bulletproof, as is the 6-spd tranny. Subframe issues are common in early model year e46's, but extremely rare in the newer models (03+ especially).

I don't know much about it's reliability either, but I haven't heard any horror stories. I'm sure it's far from perfect, but then again... do you really think the new Mustangs are going to be problem-free from day 1? Granted, you'll be covered by warranty, but almost all 335's are still under warranty for another year or so (or more).

Again, it comes down to personal opinion and what's most important to you... but I don't think it's fair to base your judgement on all M3's/335's based on a couple of bad experiences. Plus the M3/335/G35 were just examples, and there are lots of other options out there... IS350's, STI's, 135's, S4's, CTS-V, CLK-500, SL-500, Boxter S, Cayman, etc. Not all will have bullet-proof reliability, and none will be brand new... but all will be more fun and feature-filled than the base V6 'Stang.

:twirleye:

I've test driven a 2010 GT back when they first came out (incidentally at the dealership Volvo-Brickster has a deep hatred of, so I'm going to steer clear of that place from now on), and although it's not up to Infiniti or BMW standards, it's leap years ahead of the previous-gen Mustangs and is more than enough for me. If i were to get one however, I would get the interior upgrade package because like you said, the base interior would make Tupperware proud.

This was 3 years ago for me. My $35k ceiling couldn't get me past 2001 models unfortunately :( (BTW your example is from Ontario, not BC)

I don't really want a 4-door if I can help it.

And here comes the excuses.... IS350 dosen't do anything for me, I used to own a WRX and don't want to own a Subaru again, 135i's look like the middle car in a 3 car pileup, S4's I do love (especially the RS4) but with owners reporting 11-14mpg city and the cheapest ones (with issues) are in the high $40k-low $50k range, can't afford the current CTS-V (I have driven the old one and I hate the junk build quality for that kind of price), the terms "Mercedes" and "reliability" are mutually exclusive terms, and for the Porsches... still need a back seat (still refuse to get a 4-door)

who wants a V6 that gets 30mpg when you can get a 5.0 that can do this with a stock motor
http://mustangforums.com/forum/2005-...the-track.html

5.0 > GT500

What you can get for $35k today is veerrry different from what it was three years ago. The used car market seems to have changed a lot over the past few years. I think it has a lot to do with the Canadian dollar's parity and the influx of US vehicles. Could also be the fact that pretty much every automaker these days is building decently reliable vehicles, meaning the average life of a used car is a lot longer.

I admit the example I provided was from Ontario, but prices across Canada are fairly comparable. Plus, even if you do have to buy a vehicle from back east, it'll only cost you about $2k to bring it home (either shipped or driven) and there's no import duties, just a simple provincial inspection.

1) S4's are NOT that expensive. Here's a local, accident-free black 2007 S4 that's going for $35k... EPA ratings for an S4 are 14/21mpg...

2) Agree with you on the CTS-V, not a fan personally, but here's a 2007 model with 27,000km for $35k.

3) You really haven't provided any reason as to why you wouldn't want a BMW 335i, aside from your co-worker's lemon car that would've been repaired under warranty.

Anyway, I'm not going to argue this any further, because what car you choose is totally up to you and I'm obviously not doing a very good job of convincing you to consider a used vehicle.

I'm just a bit perplexed as to why a person would choose a V6 Mustang over a BMW 335i or an Audi S4 when the initial cost and the costs of ownership will end up being similar. Granted, the BMW and Audi will be used, but only for a few years and may even still be under warranty. Plus they were both, when new, worth at least $25k more than the Mustang... and that will be reflected in the driving experience and the overall fit and finish of the vehicle.

Again, not to say the Mustang is bad... I'm sure it's going to be a very popular car and is probably far better than previous generations. Nonetheless, it's still a budget muscle car designed for soccer mom's and weekend warriors, and it's build quality still won't win any awards. Couple that with a solid rear axle, smaller brakes, and softer suspension, and it doesn't look that appealing when you can get a 335 or an S4 for the same price.

BTW, before you complain about fuel economy: EPA ratings for the '07 335i are 19/29mpg [source], which happens to be identical to the Mustang. Except it's faster. And handles better. And has better fit & finish. And a better interior.

Sorry, I'm getting carried away. :D I guess it all comes down to priorities.

Amaru... a few posts back you quoted some estimated costs for maintenance... where did you get those numbers from? I asked someone else I know with a 3-series (out of warranty) and he told me he's paying a LOT more than what you listed?

Also... don't believe in what the EPA says. Their numbers are overrated and optimistic IMO. I've never come close to any of the values they claim with anything I've owned, even when I try to drive like a granny.

And a big no to cars from Ontario and anywhere east of there. My dad was from Ontario, so I've heard the horror stories firsthand about cars being eaten alive from the winter hell they go through over there... pass.

I might kick around the thought of an Audi some more. It's just that I own a VW product right now, and now I know from personal experience, problems with the car start to grow exponentially as age/mileage increases. It's tolerable for me right now because my dealer is so good to me and I'm still under warranty, but once my coverage is up... God help me :cry:

If I were to get a BMW, I would have to consider a US model one I guess... I've driven many of the last-gen 3-series models, but not the current one. If I can find one to test drive, maybe it might change my mind I don't know... I also haven't looked into other things, like the cost of insurance (but for all I know a brand new Mustang might cost the same as a used BMW who knows).

^ what were the issues with your Subaru?

I own one, for starters... but it was just a ballpark figure based on my own experience. I figured $8k is pretty safe for 4 years/80,000km assuming you keep up with preventative maintenance. (And stay away from the dealer for non-warranty work).

OK, well, my point was that the 335i has the exact same city mileage as the v6 Mustang... both reported by EPA. (Highway mileage was 1mpg inferior in the BMW). So, even if they're both off, presumably they're very similar.

Frankly I think that's rubbish. You're looking at 3-year-old BMW's, not 1980's Volvos. There's not going to be rust issues on a car that had its undercoating done a couple of years prior and has only seen 3 winters. Even if the previous owner never waxed it and lived in a salt pit, it's unlikely there's any significant rust damage.

e92 feels quite similar to the e46, albeit with better power. I thought the steering lost a bit of feel, but it's still miles ahead of anything else I've ever driven in that regard. Suspension is compliant, build quality is excellent, it's quiet & spacious, etc. Not a huge fan of the interior personally, although most people prefer it to the e46 interior. BMW is definitely losing ground to Audi, but the 3-series continues to be the benchmark against which all other sports luxury vehicles are compared.

Insurance can't possibly be a factor when you're looking at buying a $35,000 car... not when we're talking maybe $50-$100 difference in annual costs.

this was back in 2002. i had plenty of issues, but just to name a few:

- almost guillotined by hatch after struts failed suddenly (warranty)
- broken body weld in base of b-pillar (translated into loud cracking sounds when the body flexed) (known problem in early 2002 models)
- coil pack failures (known problem)
- battery failure, just outside of warranty,
- cracked brake rotors, replaced twice under warranty before going aftermarket
- wheel bearing failure (known subaru problem)
- broken pressure plate which damaged flywheel (came from defective batch according to subaru)
- dying throwout bearing, that was not replaced by dealer when pressure plate and flywheel was replaced (i had to go to indie shop to do it out at my own expense)
- blown cv joint, caused by improper install by dealer

... but all of this is probably from my bad luck. my parents have owned subarus since their first GL-10 back in 1985 and they have hever had the level of grief i had with mine, but i'm not going to tempt fate again and get another :(

hoooooly crap.

and then you went and got a VW though - aren't you tempting fate even more now? :D

i'm a glutton for punishment i guess. my only consolation is that the dealership i go to for warranty work has been outstanding to me, otherwise i would have been screaming bloody murder by now. but they might kick me to the curb went the coverage expires...

i keep saying that i love the car, but the car hates me :cry: