The Official 2010/2011 Canucks Thread

[Bonka]

Originally Posted by jayare604

I was too young to remember the 94 run but didn't McLean always come to give his 100% every game? Luongo is a proven regular season goalie, he has shown he can win us games in the playoffs but the previous 2 Chicago series in 09 and 10 were brutal
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Originally Posted by jayare604

Stats are stats

Lu has shown he can dominate in the regular season, definitely not in the playoffs. Enough said

What the hell makes you think Lu hasn't and isn't giving his 100%? Because he let's in suspect goals? Please.

You might want to bone up and find out about the Canucks in 1982 and 1994 (you know, YouTube, Wiki, etc) before you go off and crap all over someone. The fact that you openly admit your ignorance shows what little credibility you have in what you've said. If you're going to dump on someone, know the facts first.

Lu is proving right now that he can become a playoff performer. Give him time to write his own history.

[DanHibiki]

Originally Posted by jayare604

Stats are stats

Lu has shown he can dominate in the regular season, definitely not in the playoffs. Enough said

Last I checked he won 2 playoff series this year and is up 2-1 in the 3rd round...

Despite those two stinkers his SV% is .915 and his GAA is 2.40.


And how bout all those Lu-haters-Niemi-lovers? Niemi SV% is .900 and his GAA is 3.18.

Sometimes I wish Luongo would ask to be traded just to show the haters how much we need him.

[spoon.ek9]

interesting fact:

Out of the top 10 highest paid NHL goalies (cap hit), Luongo is ranked 9th.

1 Henrik Lundqvist NY Rangers 28 ----------$6,875,000 $7,750,000
2 Cam Ward Carolina 26 ---------------------$6,300,000 $5,000,000
3 Ryan Miller Buffalo 29 ---------------------$6,250,000 $6,250,000
T4 Niklas Backstrom Minnesota 32 -------------$6,000,000 $6,000,000
Jean-Sebastien Giguere Toronto 33 ------$6,000,000 $7,000,000
6 Miikka Kiprusoff Calgary 33 ---------------$5,833,000 $7,000,000
7 Tomas Vokoun Florida 33 ---------------$5,700,000 $6,300,000
8 Cristobal Huet Chicago 34 ---------------$5,625,000 $5,625,000
9 Roberto Luongo Vancouver 31 ---------$5,333,000 $10,000,000
10 Martin Brodeur New Jersey 38 ----------$5,200,000 $5,200,000

[Iceman_2K]

And Luongo's GAA in the regular season was 2.11. Luongo can't even ask to be traded since he asked for a no trade clause in his contract that only allows for it if both parties agree, and I don't believe the organization right now would let him go even if he wanted to.

Originally Posted by DanHibiki

Last I checked he won 2 playoff series this year and is up 2-1 in the 3rd round...

Despite those two stinkers his SV% is .915 and his GAA is 2.40.


And how bout all those Lu-haters-Niemi-lovers? Niemi SV% is .900 and his GAA is 3.18.

Sometimes I wish Luongo would ask to be traded just to show the haters how much we need him.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by spoon.ek9

interesting fact:

Out of the top 10 highest paid NHL goalies (cap hit), Luongo is ranked 9th.

1 Henrik Lundqvist NY Rangers 28 ----------$6,875,000 $7,750,000
2 Cam Ward Carolina 26 ---------------------$6,300,000 $5,000,000
3 Ryan Miller Buffalo 29 ---------------------$6,250,000 $6,250,000
T4 Niklas Backstrom Minnesota 32 -------------$6,000,000 $6,000,000
Jean-Sebastien Giguere Toronto 33 ------$6,000,000 $7,000,000
6 Miikka Kiprusoff Calgary 33 ---------------$5,833,000 $7,000,000
7 Tomas Vokoun Florida 33 ---------------$5,700,000 $6,300,000
8 Cristobal Huet Chicago 34 ---------------$5,625,000 $5,625,000
9 Roberto Luongo Vancouver 31 ---------$5,333,000 $10,000,000
10 Martin Brodeur New Jersey 38 ----------$5,200,000 $5,200,000

FOR 12 FUCKING YEARS dude.

Nobody is saying Luongo is "not good". The point is, he has NOT "won a game for them". He has been "solid in net" at best, and when the team is playing well, that's plenty good enough. When they have an off game (like yesterday), they are guaranteed to lose. If he had not let in that five-hole goal from the point, it would have gone into overtime for instance.

His GAA and SV% are excellent because they played a round against Nashville, who do not have the ability to score non-fluky goals.

To expect miraculous games from Luongo is maybe expecting too much. But how many cup winning teams in the past got the occasional miracle goalie performance or two during their runs? So far, we haven't seen that from Lu. He's been solid at best, mostly 'just good enough', and occasionally pretty bad.

[Vansterdam]

lol@ trade luongo comments

[spideyv2]

Originally Posted by Bonka

What the hell makes you think Lu hasn't and isn't giving his 100%? Because he let's in suspect goals? Please.

You might want to bone up and find out about the Canucks in 1982 and 1994 (you know, YouTube, Wiki, etc) before you go off and crap all over someone. The fact that you openly admit your ignorance shows what little credibility you have in what you've said. If you're going to dump on someone, know the facts first.

Lu is proving right now that he can become a playoff performer. Give him time to write his own history.

haha tone it down there roid rage
I'm not shitting on Luongo, i'm saying from the looks of it Luongo isn't the same playoff goaltender McLean was, or at least what McLean was in 94. I remember Luongo having a solid playoff in 07, and in 09 he was looking good until round 2 where he lets in 7 goals in an elimination game. Than in 2010 where he was having another good first round until the Hawks came around in round 2 where he lets in 5 goals in an elimination game (although we only scored 1 goal). Than this year, in the first round against the Hawks he gets pulled twice in the series, allowing 6 goals in game 4 and 4 goals in game 5. I'm not gonna lie though, he had a very good game 7 and looked very relaxed and confident out there.

I think he played pretty good against the Predators despite some of those weird/weak goals. Same could be said against the Sharks, a couple questionable goals but otherwise he's been playing alright.

Once again, i'm not shitting on Lu, but he hasn't proven to be a solid playoff goaltender YET.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by spoon.ek9

interesting fact:

Out of the top 10 highest paid NHL goalies (cap hit), Luongo is ranked 9th.

1 Henrik Lundqvist NY Rangers 28 ----------$6,875,000 $7,750,000
2 Cam Ward Carolina 26 ---------------------$6,300,000 $5,000,000
3 Ryan Miller Buffalo 29 ---------------------$6,250,000 $6,250,000
T4 Niklas Backstrom Minnesota 32 -------------$6,000,000 $6,000,000
Jean-Sebastien Giguere Toronto 33 ------$6,000,000 $7,000,000
6 Miikka Kiprusoff Calgary 33 ---------------$5,833,000 $7,000,000
7 Tomas Vokoun Florida 33 ---------------$5,700,000 $6,300,000
8 Cristobal Huet Chicago 34 ---------------$5,625,000 $5,625,000
9 Roberto Luongo Vancouver 31 ---------$5,333,000 $10,000,000
10 Martin Brodeur New Jersey 38 ----------$5,200,000 $5,200,000

Okay this point has gotta stop.

This is a moot point because his cap hit is just a stroke of luck. It was a cap-circumventing contract that was under investigation and was luckily grandfathered in; just.

If it weren't for that stroke of luck, by length of contract, everyone knows what pedestal Lu puts himself in by his asking price.


Do people really think he would've stayed here for you guys for $5M? 2 Art Ross trophy winners sure would.




Until this guy gets his humility back, I sure as hell wouldn't mind if he gets traded away. I mean, Ben Eager scored his goal on Game 2 because Luongo flops at every contact.

Yes Eager's a 200lber, but I've seen goalies battle through worse. I agree it should've been goalie interference when he crashed the net for rebounds but if you're priorities are to flop and sell the penalty rather than battle for the play, then I think you've got one hell of a sense of self entitlement around your crease.

I mean for fucks sakes, not only the league but even your own teammates crack jokes about that particular little quirk.

[punkwax]

Lu played what, 62 regular season games this year? Dude made $161290 per game.

That's earnings equivalent to 7.75 yrs of full time work at minimum wage.

Imagine all the berries picked in that amount of time!
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[RiceIntegraRS]

McLean a playoff Goaltender? So almost pull a Cam Ward by having 1 good playoff and all of a sudden your a playoff Goalie and always remembered for being one?

[Mercy]

have a 2 - 1 lead in the western conferance finals... trade goalie

[spideyv2]

Originally Posted by spoon.ek9

interesting fact:

Out of the top 10 highest paid NHL goalies (cap hit), Luongo is ranked 9th.

1 Henrik Lundqvist NY Rangers 28 ----------$6,875,000 $7,750,000
2 Cam Ward Carolina 26 ---------------------$6,300,000 $5,000,000
3 Ryan Miller Buffalo 29 ---------------------$6,250,000 $6,250,000
T4 Niklas Backstrom Minnesota 32 -------------$6,000,000 $6,000,000
Jean-Sebastien Giguere Toronto 33 ------$6,000,000 $7,000,000
6 Miikka Kiprusoff Calgary 33 ---------------$5,833,000 $7,000,000
7 Tomas Vokoun Florida 33 ---------------$5,700,000 $6,300,000
8 Cristobal Huet Chicago 34 ---------------$5,625,000 $5,625,000
9 Roberto Luongo Vancouver 31 ---------$5,333,000 $10,000,000
10 Martin Brodeur New Jersey 38 ----------$5,200,000 $5,200,000

You can also look at it like this. Having a 40 year old goalie who has a 5.3 mil cap hit, plus that $10mil beside his name looks ridiculous. Luongo is a good goalie, definitely better than Cloutier and Auld (god damn)

I remember when Mike Babcock said something about how he would never pay $7mill for a goalie..

[Noir]

I will agree with the apologists though that on a skill by skill basis Luongo > Maclean.

However, I think what the fans are asking is that post season X factor. Kind of like Trevor Linden pulling off 2 goals in Game 7 with his battered body; Or when Patrick Roy has a bad game and gets pissed, he just becomes an absolute wall.

Again, this is not Florida where we'll be happy with just not being blown out. This is a Stanley Cup team and people are putting Stanley Cup goaltender expectations on Lu. And if you're asking for elite player money, people are putting elite player expectations.




Anyways, it's not like Luongo is the only that's being singled out for criticism. Kesler has been critisized and answered the bell. The Sedins also received criticisms and are just answering the bell. Hell, even our depth scoring was criticized during the 1st series and they too answered the bell.

Goes to show that it's not Lu hate. Absolutely everyone is subject to criticism. Actually, as good as he was on the reg. season, I'm surprised not everyone has been mentioning Erhoff's post season thus far; I sure have been hearing a lot about Edler instead though.

[tonyzoomzoom]

between the fans whinning and the local media always looking to create controversy, pretty soon players won't want to come here and play. Imagine if we end up like where Edmonton or Calgary right now...

I know we all care and want to the team do play well every night; but stop complaining about this player or that player not pulling their weight or playing to their full potential and enjoy the moment. We're up 2-1 in the conference final for crying out loud !!

[Bonka]

Originally Posted by jayare604

Once again, i'm not shitting on Lu, but he hasn't proven to be a solid playoff goaltender YET.

Define a solid playoff goaltender then. Because if one is defined by having a cup ring, then we haven't had any. Lu is our best chance up to this point.

If you've ever seen McLean play you'll understand. His standup style was just about obsolete during that time when butterfly goalies were dominant and preferred. McLean let in the same type of suspect goals too and he gave us plenty of scares.

Schneider directly caused 2 goals in that Chicago game, but if it was Lu you guys would chase his ass out of here.

Regardless of what players we have, let's keep our faith in the team.
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[shawn79]

i rather have lundqvist and his contract


because i like this team to be all swedes

[spoon.ek9]

Originally Posted by jayare604

You can also look at it like this. Having a 40 year old goalie who has a 5.3 mil cap hit, plus that $10mil beside his name looks ridiculous. Luongo is a good goalie, definitely better than Cloutier and Auld (god damn)

I remember when Mike Babcock said something about how he would never pay $7mill for a goalie..

1. other than looking bad, how does that effect you or the team?
2. good, he can afford the most expensive goalie in the NHL then

i bring the point of cap hit up because we ALL know that's the only number that really matters out of this. is luongo going to play all 12 years on the contract? i STRONGLY doubt it. does it matter that it was circumventing the cap? no, because nothing came of it (lucky or not, same result).

as long as people keep bringing up the $10,000,000 argument, i will continue to push the cap hit argument. it's as simple as that.

[shawn79]

http://www.riverrock.com/special_offers/canucks.aspx
Monday May 23rd, 2011
UPDATE!! Your other '94 Canucks that will be signing autographs are: Kirk McLean, Murray Craven, Dana Murzyn, Jeff Brown (), Marty Gelinas and Gerald Diduck!
Meet 'Captain Kirk McLean and members of your '94 Vancouver Canucks from 2pm-5pm in the River Rock Casino Resort Lobby!

Autographs
No tickets necessary
First come first serve
All ages

Spoiler!

No linden, bure, ronning no care.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by spoon.ek9

1. other than looking bad, how does that effect you or the team?
2. good, he can afford the most expensive goalie in the NHL then

i bring the point of cap hit up because we ALL know that's the only number that really matters out of this. is luongo going to play all 12 years on the contract? i STRONGLY doubt it. does it matter that it was circumventing the cap? no, because nothing came of it (lucky or not, same result).

as long as people keep bringing up the $10,000,000 argument, i will continue to push the cap hit argument. it's as simple as that.

People aren't bring it up because they have issue with the cap hit. People are bringing it up because its the basis of their expectation.

With a huge piece of the pie, you have to consistently be the best player of your team. However, ever since we missed that one post-season, it's consistently been a Sedins show, or the Kesler show.

And we continue to throw our defense under the bus for every goal; despite having the best defensive squad in the league.





TBH, if cap restrictions ever put us in a situation that we had to shave the roster; and we had to choose between retaining our defensive squad or goalie, I'd vote retaining our defensive core. As much as the apologists like to throw our defense under the bus for every loss, coaches leaguewide respect our defense more than our goaltender.

Hey, wasn't Todd Mclellan's game 3 adjustments solely because of our defense?

[Iceman_2K]

We're talking about goalies from two different era's of the NHL. In the 10 years he was with Vancouver, McLean had two Vezina trophies (not in the 94 season), 2.74 GAA on his best year, and was named to the All Star Team twice (again not in the 94 season). We revere McLean because he was a good, consistent goalie for the era. He was the franchise goalie that was on the team for 10 years, which is a long time. A kid woulda started elementary school and finished high school in that time span. He had his ups and downs, and when he was good, he had shut out games. He also didn't have the best guys in front of him, but he did well, and kept the team in the game, rather than keep the game going.


Luongo has a GAA of 2.11 this year before the playoffs. That's pretty low. Whether its because of skill, or because of the team in front of him, its still a very low GAA. But Luongo has to have a breakout period. With the Canucks as they are now, he will not have a chance to have a breakout game - unless the team drops like flies left and right. He had a chance to have a breakout period in period 1 of Game 3, and it could have gone better. But he kept the team going, and Vancouver finished 3-4 by the end of the game. However, his chance to silence the critics was in period 1 of Game 3. Rather than being a goalie that keeps the game going, he should have strove to be the goalie that keeps the team in the game. Goalies like Pekka Rinne and Ed Belfour keep the team in the game. A goalie like Patrick Roy (when he was in Colorado) keeps the game going.

Was McLean as good as Luongo? Can't even ask the question - they belong to different era's of the NHL, and are good in each. Both play totally different styles of goaltending, and equipment is vastly different in each era. In McLean's best season, he won 38 games, and had a GAA of 2.74. In Luongo's best season so far, hes won 47 games, and GAA of 2.29. This year's regular season he's at 38 wins, and GAA of 2.11.

Luongo hasn't been here long enough - but he's getting there. Another 5 years, and he'll be in Vancouver as long as McLean did.

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

kirk who?

Luongo already owns basically every stat that matters for Canuck goalies and he will have every stat here once he's done

Why do we revere Mclean when he's won the same that Luongos won? nothing.

Mclean had one season where he got over 28 wins, he's NOT as good of a goalie as Luongo thats a certainty, just because he was part of a team that went to the finals, people like remember him as if he had actually won somthing..

[spideyv2]

Originally Posted by Bonka

Define a solid playoff goaltender then. Because if one is defined by having a cup ring, then we haven't had any. Lu is our best chance up to this point.

If you've ever seen McLean play you'll understand. His standup style was just about obsolete during that time when butterfly goalies were dominant and preferred. McLean let in the same type of suspect goals too and he gave us plenty of scares.

Schneider directly caused 2 goals in that Chicago game, but if it was Lu you guys would chase his ass out of here.

Regardless of what players we have, let's keep our faith in the team.
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Schneider is a rookie and isn't getting paid $10mill, neither does he have a $5mill cap hit. Expectation aren't high for him either, he's our backup goalie.

A playoff goalie to me would be someone like Patrick Roy, Brodeur, Hasek, Kipprusoff(jokes), in their prime.

Edit - Roloson also tends to show up during the playoffs (03 Wild, 06 Oilers, and he's been playing pretty well for the Bolts so far)

[tonyzoomzoom]

wow jeff brown and kirk mclean in the same room ?? :trollface:

[Gh0stRider]

[spideyv2]

Originally Posted by Iceman_2K

We're talking about goalies from two different era's of the NHL. In the 10 years he was with Vancouver, McLean had two Vezina trophies (not in the 94 season), 2.74 GAA on his best year, and was named to the All Star Team twice (again not in the 94 season). We revere McLean because he was a good, consistent goalie for the era. He was the franchise goalie that was on the team for 10 years, which is a long time. A kid woulda started elementary school and finished high school in that time span. He had his ups and downs, and when he was good, he had shut out games. He also didn't have the best guys in front of him, but he did well, and kept the team in the game, rather than keep the game going.


Luongo has a GAA of 2.11 this year before the playoffs. That's pretty low. Whether its because of skill, or because of the team in front of him, its still a very low GAA. But Luongo has to have a breakout period. With the Canucks as they are now, he will not have a chance to have a breakout game - unless the team drops like flies left and right. He had a chance to have a breakout period in period 1 of Game 3, and it could have gone better. But he kept the team going, and Vancouver finished 3-4 by the end of the game. However, his chance to silence the critics was in period 1 of Game 3. Rather than being a goalie that keeps the game going, he should have strove to be the goalie that keeps the team in the game. Goalies like Pekka Rinne and Ed Belfour keep the team in the game. A goalie like Patrick Roy (when he was in Colorado) keeps the game going.

Was McLean as good as Luongo? Can't even ask the question - they belong to different era's of the NHL, and are good in each. Both play totally different styles of goaltending, and equipment is vastly different in each era. In McLean's best season, he won 38 games, and had a GAA of 2.74. In Luongo's best season so far, hes won 47 games, and GAA of 2.29. This year's regular season he's at 38 wins, and GAA of 2.11.

Luongo hasn't been here long enough - but he's getting there. Another 5 years, and he'll be in Vancouver as long as McLean did.

lol last time I checked, the school system down here had 12 grades which is equivalent to 12 years.

[Noir]

Bottomline is Luongo is not alone.

It's the WCF and if possible, soon to be SCF and everyone is being pushed to a higher level of performance. The Sedins are being pushed to do better, Kesler, Grinders, defense in Bieksa, Hammer, et al. and Luongo.


However like BlueG2 has stated, a lot of fans (and possibly it's the non-hockey playing demographic) that are noticing goalies tend to operate under a bubble; That everyone is being pushed to play better except the goalie because he has to be insulated.

That special treatment makes sense to teammates as you'll never see teammates call out their goalies like they do in Lu (or like the whole team didn't for Cloutier), but that special treatment looks problematic in the eyes of outsiders because it breeds no change, or push for progress in the goaltending end.



However, I see the POV of the apologists in the hazards of chasing out your goaltender like MTL did Roy, but c'mon.... If Lu ever pulled off the same thing, who the hell does he think he is? Does he really already think he's in the same pedestal? I don't think so, and I don't see it happening unless he's actually THAT arrogant.