The Official 2010/2011 Canucks Thread

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by Noir

It's only $5.3M because it's in exchange for a 12 year term; meaning he'll still be occupying that much cap space well into his late 30's and early 40's.

Since that's the only reason, there's no sense tip-toeing around that Luongo himself, the franchise, and everyone else thinks he's an $8M - $10M goalie. He would never sign for $5M in any other circumstances.

a deal where after what? 4-5 years he is tradeable where any shit team would take him in a heart beat? the tradeoff of term was in order to lower cap hit, the deal does not handcuff the team whatsoever

Also Bonjour43MA as usual, somone who wants to debate Luongo's worthiness cannot come up with a situation that would work out better than the current one we have

Fluery's, Wards, etc do not grow on tree's [both of which when they won the cup were basically ignorant to the pressure upon them and their teams, or had none on them during their run.]

or maybe we'll just trade for a BETTER goalie! like hmm..

Kiprusoff, Miikka - 5.833
Hiller, Jonas - 4.500
Miller, Ryan - 6.250
Vokoun, Tomas - 5.700
Backstrom, Niklas - 6.000
Brodeur, Martin - 5.200
Lundqvist, Henrik - 6.875
Giguere, Jean-Sebastien - 6.000

Hiller, a basically unproven goalie in his own right, even more so than Luongo is the only goalie to makes LESS than Luongo..

now here's a hypothetical situation for ya, Trade ANY of those goalies straight up for Luongo and pay them the 5.33 right now, as in tomorrow

tell that goalie, ok, our one and only goal is a stanley cup, anything but a spot in the western conference finals will be considered a failure, and we're riding you all the way there

See how many of those goalies make it passed the 2nd round

Professional sports are 90% mental, Luongo's contract extension was basically saying, ok.. were puting faith in you that over the next few years where our core is intact, we have a shot at the cup and you need to realize that we need you to do everything in your power to put demons behind you, focus on the game, and we will do everything in our power to prepare you to perform optimally, focus on your game, and let the team build confidence as a whole, not build confidence on Luongo saves resulting in breakdowns, penalties, etc. shit doesnt work like that.

Whats sad is that i guarantee you in those other cities where goalies are making MILLIONS more than Luongo, during losses they do not rip into their goalies as hard as we do

Of course, the lame fan will always resort back to the "How many cups has Luongo/the Canucks won, how many playoff victories, 7uongo!"

the fact of the matter is, that argument is like saying the sky is blue, no shit the sky is blue, 99% of the time that statement is true, the one day that i say the sky is green and it's green, holy fuck i look like a fucking genius!

its the same thing as saying "how many cups have the Canucks won?" "How many cups has Luongo won?" shit doesnt happen in a day, and the stanley cup aint like winning a ball hockey tournament, the stars have to align perfectly for a championship to be won, and in a city like Vancouver, the universe might have to align in order for it to happen, but whenever it does, people wont be caring about bad regular season goals.

[iwantaskyline]

Originally Posted by Noir

But like Hondaracer, you can't bank on such benefits that's contingent on other things.

In your example: Contingent on another team wanting his $5M + contract until he's 42. (at at 5 years down the road, Luongo will be 36) So I'm not sure how attractive that trade bait will be.

In Hondaracer's hopes: Contingent that he'll retire before his contract expiry and forfeit the remaining few million dollars.

You're right. The only way a team will take on Luongo if he is still playing at a consistent level. However when the opt out clause for the Canucks takes effect Luongo will only be owed 13 million for the remaining 5 years. So I can see teams out there willing to accept that. Roloson is 41 and still playing at a high level so I can see Luongo sustaining the same consistency. Teams wanting to meet the cap floor will be interested as Luongo will essentially be carrying a "virtual cap hit", being paid less then the 5.33 cap hit those remaining years.

[spoon.ek9]

you guys need to remember that we're playing a different style of hockey than we were when we first signed lu. playing an offensive style of hockey is going to allow more goals here and there. now, that being said, he did screw up tonight and i'm sure no one feels worse than he does right now. in terms of salary, the only number that matters is the cap hit because that's what affects the team as a whole. at $5.3 mil, lu is a good signing. would you guys rather have cloutier back? garth snow? raycroft? labarbera?

it was a GOOD game to watch and we DID get a point out of it. calm down people.

[orange7]

to be honest, before the game started I thought we would lose this game in regulation

but we got away with 1 of the 2 points. So I am happy.

and we all should be happy too because the red wings are not flames/leafs.

[spoon.ek9]

^ exactly, this was an elite team we played tonight. not the bottom basement garbage and mediocre teams we've been seeing lately.

[Tim Budong]

Tonight's lost was clearly on the shoulder of Luongo. Putting salary and all that garbage aside, the two goals he let in should be pretty routine.

The tying goal, well.. everyone so focused on the left side of the play, Lidstrom snuck in. Typical PP strategy that just maybe a simple COVER THE D-MAN coulda saved the play. Regardless, the Wings PP is great because they can DO JUST THAT, force play to one side and have a Dman sneak right in. Luongo was close to helpless there. Whatever

Erhoff had the puck bounce on him in OT, which lead to the turnover, but Luongo had all the time + space to challenge Zetteberg.

One way or another, its one fucking game. Let this game be a wakeup for Luongo because the next 2 weeks ain't gonna be easy. He's got the flyers, sharks, oilers, stars to worry about. Those teams are just as good.

On a side note. isn't it great to see that the team actually has a chance to finish higher than 3rd? it shows improvement within the club.

[iwantaskyline]

Something else I didn't mention in my previous posts was that Luongo does not carry a NMC. If the Canucks down the road chose to demote him the minors and he does not report, contract is void. Not saying they will do this as that is a slap in the face but crazier things have happened.

[spoon.ek9]

let's not forget we're still missing raymond and salo in the line up too

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

a deal where after what? 4-5 years he is tradeable where any shit team would take him in a heart beat? the tradeoff of term was in order to lower cap hit, the deal does not handcuff the team whatsoever

Also Bonjour43MA as usual, somone who wants to debate Luongo's worthiness cannot come up with a situation that would work out better than the current one we have

Fluery's, Wards, etc do not grow on tree's [both of which when they won the cup were basically ignorant to the pressure upon them and their teams, or had none on them during their run.]

or maybe we'll just trade for a BETTER goalie! like hmm..

Kiprusoff, Miikka - 5.833
Hiller, Jonas - 4.500
Miller, Ryan - 6.250
Vokoun, Tomas - 5.700
Backstrom, Niklas - 6.000
Brodeur, Martin - 5.200
Lundqvist, Henrik - 6.875
Giguere, Jean-Sebastien - 6.000

Hiller, a basically unproven goalie in his own right, even more so than Luongo is the only goalie to makes LESS than Luongo..

now here's a hypothetical situation for ya, Trade ANY of those goalies straight up for Luongo and pay them the 5.33 right now, as in tomorrow

tell that goalie, ok, our one and only goal is a stanley cup, anything but a spot in the western conference finals will be considered a failure, and we're riding you all the way there

See how many of those goalies make it passed the 2nd round

Professional sports are 90% mental, Luongo's contract extension was basically saying, ok.. were puting faith in you that over the next few years where our core is intact, we have a shot at the cup and you need to realize that we need you to do everything in your power to put demons behind you, focus on the game, and we will do everything in our power to prepare you to perform optimally, focus on your game, and let the team build confidence as a whole, not build confidence on Luongo saves resulting in breakdowns, penalties, etc. shit doesnt work like that.

Whats sad is that i guarantee you in those other cities where goalies are making MILLIONS more than Luongo, during losses they do not rip into their goalies as hard as we do

Of course, the lame fan will always resort back to the "How many cups has Luongo/the Canucks won, how many playoff victories, 7uongo!"

the fact of the matter is, that argument is like saying the sky is blue, no shit the sky is blue, 99% of the time that statement is true, the one day that i say the sky is green and it's green, holy fuck i look like a fucking genius!

its the same thing as saying "how many cups have the Canucks won?" "How many cups has Luongo won?" shit doesnt happen in a day, and the stanley cup aint like winning a ball hockey tournament, the stars have to align perfectly for a championship to be won, and in a city like Vancouver, the universe might have to align in order for it to happen, but whenever it does, people wont be caring about bad regular season goals.

If you really are only looking at the "now" perspective, Luongo on that list should be $8M. He's only a $5.3 based on a loophole that was corrected because of him, Hossa & Kovalchuk.

If we're going to judge him on a "$5.3" perspective, you have to take into account the term of that perspective because the benefits of that term are all short-sighted. Yes, he's only occupying $5.3 now but how many on that list of goalies you had will be occupying the same amount until over the age of 40.

[orange7]

plus let's face it.

no team will win all 82 games. Even if the canucks have brodeur during his prime and playing godlike every night, we would stilll not win all 82 games.

If the canucks have to lose some of those games, I'd much rather lose a close game to the red wings than to the laffs or the lames.

[iwantaskyline]

Originally Posted by Noir

If you really are only looking at the "now" perspective, Luongo on that list should be $8M. He's only a $5.3 based on a loophole that was corrected because of him, Hossa & Kovalchuk.

If we're going to judge him on a "$5.3" perspective, you have to take into account the term of that perspective because the benefits of that term are all short-sighted. Yes, he's only occupying $5.3 now but how many on that list of goalies you had will be occupying the same amount until over the age of 40.

Honestly, I'm not worried about the term whatsoever. If he shits the bed when he starts getting older, there are a ton of ways the Canucks can get out of the contract. Demote him to the minors is highly unlikely but possible, but take this into account. In the remaining 4 years of his deal Luongo is only owed 7 million. If the Canucks buy him out they will be stuck with a cap hit of $587,000 which is peanuts. I've also mentioned the trade option a few posts back as well.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by darthchilli

On a side note. isn't it great to see that the team actually has a chance to finish higher than 3rd? it shows improvement within the club.

Werd, and Kesler really coming into his own. I was already content with the Kesler of the last 2 years but like the Sedins, he keeps reaching for new ceilings annually.


Tambi is also another great find & surprise that I'm actually warming up to hopes of becoming a regular (even after Raymond's) return. I don't know, maybe in place of Hansen or Sammeullson on the 2nd line. He's making things really interesting on how this'll play out. But for now I really like him on the 2nd line.

[Hondaracer]

* edit, this post is refering to Noir's - is that even relevant? as i said in the first sentence, there would be 10-15 teams that would pick a 35-38 year old Luongo, and they could cut him at anytime with no repercussions

I also dont look at smart cap management as a detriment to the team.. Goalies will still continue to be signed for more than 5.33 who have won less than Luongo.

[RiceIntegraRS]

i came on here to see all the retards here that bash Luongo. 7-1-0 Record 1.73GAA .925Save% prior to tonights game and he lets in 2-3 bad goals and everyone is all over him. I absolutely hate Vancouvers what have you done for me lately mentality.

[spoon.ek9]

i think overall people here aren't bashing Lu but rather, are disappointed in his performance in a key game tonight. we're very fortunate to have the team that we have now. with all due respect to the fans, i'm much more comfortable being a canucks fan than a flames, leafs, or sens fan. yes, i left out the oilers because they have a bright future ahead of them.

[iwantaskyline]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

* edit, this post is refering to Noir's - is that even relevant? as i said in the first sentence, there would be 10-15 teams that would pick a 35-38 year old Luongo, and they could cut him at anytime with no repercussions

I also dont look at smart cap management as a detriment to the team.. Goalies will still continue to be signed for more than 5.33 who have won less than Luongo.

If he shits the bed again in the playoffs for a third year. I would not sign Luongo to a 5.33 cap hit contract even with a gun to my head. Now the last two years could be down years but lets face reality here. The last 2 years including this year his stats keep getting worse. His sv% keeps going down each year, currently ranked 22nd in the league. 14 of the goalies ahead of him this year make less than him. Only one goalie is below him who makes a comparable salary and that's Kiprusoff who plays on a shit team.

IMO and yours is probably different. The goalies you named in your previous post, I would take all of them except for Kiprusoff and Giguere rather then Luongo. Thats my opinion because I think he is on the downslope of his career but I really do hope he bounces back. I don't care about the regular season but I hope he plays well in the playoffs.

[Hondaracer]

fyi Kelly Rhudy [sp] was on team1040 today going about the peak of a goalies career being between 30-36, so who knows

also RiceIntegraRS's post backs up my statement on the last page about his record, he's been the best goalie in the league in December, and the only stat that matters to the people arguing "the record is the teams, not his" is the SV %, a stat which cannot be argued much like the 5.33 cap hit.

[RiceIntegraRS]

^wait till the end of the season to compare stats, we all know Luongo has bad starts and will start to get hot mid-end season. But i do agree that this is the year Luongo has to make a statement in the playoffs

[iwantaskyline]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

fyi Kelly Rhudy [sp] was on team1040 today going about the peak of a goalies career being between 30-36, so who knows

also RiceIntegraRS's post backs up my statement on the last page about his record, he's been the best goalie in the league in December, and the only stat that matters to the people arguing "the record is the teams, not his" is the SV %, a stat which cannot be argued much like the 5.33 cap hit.

Well if thats what Rhudy says then I hope Luongo's a late "peaker".

SV % is a great stat to determine how well a goalie is playing. W-L is a great stat determining how GOOD a team is.

[RiceIntegraRS]

Originally Posted by iwantaskyline

If he shits the bed again in the playoffs for a third year. I would not sign Luongo to a 5.33 cap hit contract even with a gun to my head. Now the last two years could be down years but lets face reality here. The last 2 years including this year his stats keep getting worse. His sv% keeps going down each year, currently ranked 22nd in the league. 14 of the goalies ahead of him this year make less than him. Only one goalie is below him who makes a comparable salary and that's Kiprusoff who plays on a shit team.

So hes 22nd in the league and 14 goalies are making less than him. So wat are u tryin to say? U would rather have Garon, Johnson, Lindback, Boucher, Bobrovsky, Rinne, Lehtonen or Crawford and their salary over Luongo and his salary?

[iwantaskyline]

Originally Posted by RiceIntegraRS

So hes 22nd in the league and 14 goalies are making less than him. So wat are u tryin to say? U would rather have Garon, Johnson, Lindback, Boucher, Bobrovsky, Rinne, Lehtonen or Crawford and their salary over Luongo and his salary?

No genius, I'm saying he is currently NOT earning his salary. I hope he does in the playoffs though.

[Mike Oxbig]

Originally Posted by orange7

plus let's face it.

no team will win all 82 games. Even if the canucks have brodeur during his prime and playing godlike every night, we would stilll not win all 82 games.

If the canucks have to lose some of those games, I'd much rather lose a close game to the red wings than to the laffs or the lames.

Tonight was not about winning. Teams were evenly matched with both teams highly skilled
But the topic right now that piss every canucks fans off is, luongo letting soft goals like the dan clouiter nightmare days

[The Hype]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Hiller, a basically unproven goalie in his own right, even more so than Luongo is the only goalie to makes LESS than Luongo.

Basically unproven? He unseated Jiggy as the Ducks #1 goalie, took out the Sharks in 6 games, and pushed the Red Wings to 7 in the '09 playoffs. Not to mention consistently keeping Anaheim in the game despite the somewhat sad state their defence has become. I'd love to see Luongo try and keep it together with a D like that in front of him.

[jigga250]

Originally Posted by The Hype

You also have to take into account the teams they played in those last 12 games. They really only had maybe 4 quality opponents.

Also, of course the amount of money they're making is important to us. If the Canucks paid Luongo what he was really worth they'd have extra money to invest in players that can make up for his inadequacies.

So you're saying he's worth less than 5.3 mil? Cause that's what his cap hit is. Sorry, but there are 30 NHL GM's who would be willing to pay him more than that.

Originally Posted by Bonjour43MA

and YOU know what you're talking about? we all have equal rights to voice our opinions.

His GAA and save % are horrible for an "elite" goalie. If he didn't have the team that he has now in front of him, he'd be at the bottom of the stats list.

Ryan Miller has almost identical stats to Luongo right now, but I guarantee there's nobody in Buffalo throwing him under the bus like this. .913 is a horrible sv % for a run and gun team? And people wonder why Vancouver is a goalie graveyard...

Originally Posted by spoon.ek9

you guys need to remember that we're playing a different style of hockey than we were when we first signed lu. playing an offensive style of hockey is going to allow more goals here and there. now, that being said, he did screw up tonight and i'm sure no one feels worse than he does right now. in terms of salary, the only number that matters is the cap hit because that's what affects the team as a whole. at $5.3 mil, lu is a good signing. would you guys rather have cloutier back? garth snow? raycroft? labarbera?

it was a GOOD game to watch and we DID get a point out of it. calm down people.

Best post in this thread. When Luongo first game to Vancouver, the team was 21st in the league in scoring. They're now generally top 5, and that has resulted from a drastic change in playing style. As a result, teams are getting better scoring opportunities (although they are still fairly solid defensively), and Luongo's stats have taken a hit.

[Tim Budong]

Originally Posted by RiceIntegraRS

i came on here to see all the retards here that bash Luongo. 7-1-0 Record 1.73GAA .925Save% prior to tonights game and he lets in 2-3 bad goals and everyone is all over him. I absolutely hate Vancouvers what have you done for me lately mentality.

Stats are stats
when a game such as today, with all the momentum and you star goalie shits the bed, how will you react?

In a big game, with so much adrenline and to see a shitter goal(s) does this give you the impression of a winner?