Engine Oil/Oil Changes Myth and Facts Thread

[shenmecar]

Related question, when do you check your oil level? When the engine is HOT or COLD? (*prepares for faggot to post a Katy Perry video*)

[Spaceship_coupe]

Check it when it's hot, I usually check it when I get home after a drive or at a gas station so this way you get a true level.

[jack_dangerous]

Originally Posted by Prelude_2_NV

Check it when it's hot, I usually check it when I get home after a drive or at a gas station so this way you get a true level.

No. You're suppose to check it when its cold. Best time to check your oil level is in the morning when the oil has all drained into the pan from the rest of the engine. Just pull the dipstick out and check, no need to wipe or anything since the oil has settled. Clean and easy.

[LiquidTurbo]

Check it when it's cold and when your car is level. When your car is running and warm, the oil pump has been running and residual oil will be in the engine internals rather than in the sump.

The dipstick is a measure of the oil in the sump. It's also easier to see when the engine is cold.

[Spaceship_coupe]

Damn...I never knew that. Guess I've been doing it wrong all these years. Thanks for the correction.

*EDIT*

I just looked it up in my manual.

Originally Posted by Audi Owner's Manual

Checking the engine oil level
The best time to check the engine oil level is when the oil is warm.

To get a true reading, the vehicle must be on level ground.
- After turning off the engine, wait a few minutes for the oil to return to the oil pan.
- Pull out dipstick (arrow) and wipe it clean with a rag.
- Reinsert dipstick; push it all the way in.
- Pull dipstick out again and read the level:
a - You must not add oil.
b - You can add oil. The oil level may go into the a range, but not above the a range
c - You must add oil. After fillin in oil, make sure that the oil level is somewhere within the b range.
- After checking the oil level, please make sure that the dipstick is pushed back in all the way.

A refers to the high mark, b the middle range and c is the low mark.

I guess it must differ from manufacturers as I have been following this method since I've owned this car.

[SkinnyPupp]

Yeah from what I recall, the oil needs to be warm, and the car needs to be running, but you shouldn't check immediately after it's running. A few minutes is best.

[LiquidTurbo]

Originally Posted by Prelude_2_NV

Damn...I never knew that. Guess I've been doing it wrong all these years. Thanks for the correction.

*EDIT*

I just looked it up in my manual.



A refers to the high mark, b the middle range and c is the low mark.

I guess it must differ from manufacturers as I have been following this method since I've owned this car.

Interesting! Check the oil when cold AND warm and see how much of a difference it makes. Perhaps your Audi's sump is large. How many liters of oil does it take per change?

[Great68]

Originally Posted by LiquidTurbo

Check it when it's cold and when your car is level. When your car is running and warm, the oil pump has been running and residual oil will be in the engine internals rather than in the sump.

The dipstick is a measure of the oil in the sump. It's also easier to see when the engine is cold.

Unless you have a drainage problem in your block, the amount of oil left in the engine after 5 minutes of an engine being shut off is pretty miniscule.

My MS3's manual outlines the following procedure to check the oil (verbatim):

1. Be sure the vehicle is on a level surface.
2. Warm up the engine to normal operating temperature.
3. Turn it off and wait at least 5 minutes for the oil to return to the oil pan.
4. Pull out the dipstick, wipe it clean, and reinsurt fully.
5. Pull it out again and examine the level.

My Ranger's manual also says to warm the engine, then let sit for 5 minutes for oil to drain to pan.

See a trend?

[Spaceship_coupe]

Originally Posted by LiquidTurbo

Interesting! Check the oil when cold AND warm and see how much of a difference it makes. Perhaps your Audi's sump is large. How many liters of oil does it take per change?

I shall do that next time and post an update. It takes about 7 litres.

[LiquidTurbo]

Hmm, guess I'm the one that's been doing it wrong. . Check the oil cold and warm to see how much of a difference it makes in the oil levels. In my past few cars, it hasn't made much of a difference with the exception hot oil is a bit harder to read.

[Spaceship_coupe]

Hey no worries man! This is why I find this forum is useful (at times ). I just hope people actually read through the whole thread instead of just a specific post. The information us automotive enthusiasts have should be shared.

I'm just glad you replied in a mature way, other forums would be jumping on my back with e-thuggin. haha

[underscore]

I've always checked it with the car off for at least 5 minutes, being a DOHC a good bit of the oil is all over the engine when it's running. I wouldn't think the oil being warm vs cold would make *that* much of a difference, obviously it'll expand when it's warm but by how much? a noticeable amount?

[LiquidTurbo]

Originally Posted by underscore

I've always checked it with the car off for at least 5 minutes, being a DOHC a good bit of the oil is all over the engine when it's running. I wouldn't think the oil being warm vs cold would make *that* much of a difference, obviously it'll expand when it's warm but by how much? a noticeable amount?

The temporary oil film thats left in the engine internals would affect the oil level far more than any thermal expansion.

[TOPEC]

dip sticks should have 2 "full" marks on it, at least on mine it does.

one is the "F" or full mark, its for cold readings
then above the mark about 1/8 to 1/4 higher has a notch on the side of the dip stick, this is the "full" reading for when the oil is hot. check ur dip sticks and see if theres 2 marks.

[jack_dangerous]

i guess technically it doesn't really matter if you check the oil when the engine is warm or cold as the difference in level should be minimal. Just check it regularly, more often if your vehicle is higher mileage, or you got vtakkk since you burn some oil when its engaged.

[death_blossom]

I'm not gonna go through this whole thread, but what are people's opinions on 5w20 weight oil?

I know this is what is recommended and used by manufacturers these days, for many vehicles. but personally, I don't believe in using such a low viscosity oil. I know it is more efficient (less friction for the engine components allowing better fuel consumption), but I feel that a 20 weight simply won't provide the type of lubricating protection that a 30 weight (or higher) would.

for example, the RX-8 is supposed to use 5w20 as per Mazda's manual. I'm sure the Renesis motor has mad many advances compared to the RX-7's 13b(t) engines of yester year, but it's still a rotary engine. an oil burning, gasoline guzzling rotary... using a low viscosity oil like 5w20 isn't going to help in the oil burning department.

discussions? can someone please fill me in on what I'm missing on using 5w20 oil.

[skylinergtr]

^^

on a car like a mazda rx-8 i would not use 5w-20 with it's high rev's. However, on say normal cars or trucks its fine. My 2002 Ford Explorer V8 has been using conventional 5w-20 since it was new. It doesn't leak or burn a drop. I've driven the piss out of it before. It runs absolutely great. Normal daily commuter 'no fun cars', 5w-20 viscosity should be fine, rev happy sport cars... look at heavier weights.

[TOPEC]

Originally Posted by death_blossom

I'm not gonna go through this whole thread, but what are people's opinions on 5w20 weight oil?

I know this is what is recommended and used by manufacturers these days, for many vehicles. but personally, I don't believe in using such a low viscosity oil. I know it is more efficient (less friction for the engine components allowing better fuel consumption), but I feel that a 20 weight simply won't provide the type of lubricating protection that a 30 weight (or higher) would.

for example, the RX-8 is supposed to use 5w20 as per Mazda's manual. I'm sure the Renesis motor has mad many advances compared to the RX-7's 13b(t) engines of yester year, but it's still a rotary engine. an oil burning, gasoline guzzling rotary... using a low viscosity oil like 5w20 isn't going to help in the oil burning department.

discussions? can someone please fill me in on what I'm missing on using 5w20 oil.

in an engine thats designed to burn oil, using a higher weight oil isnt going to prevent oil burning like in a conventional 4 stroke where a thicker weight will prevent seepage pass the rings.
but again, if ur using a higher weight oil to prevent seepage pass the rings, ur just masking a problem that is there.

[LiquidTurbo]

Originally Posted by death_blossom

I'm not gonna go through this whole thread, but what are people's opinions on 5w20 weight oil?

I know this is what is recommended and used by manufacturers these days, for many vehicles. but personally, I don't believe in using such a low viscosity oil. I know it is more efficient (less friction for the engine components allowing better fuel consumption), but I feel that a 20 weight simply won't provide the type of lubricating protection that a 30 weight (or higher) would.

for example, the RX-8 is supposed to use 5w20 as per Mazda's manual. I'm sure the Renesis motor has mad many advances compared to the RX-7's 13b(t) engines of yester year, but it's still a rotary engine. an oil burning, gasoline guzzling rotary... using a low viscosity oil like 5w20 isn't going to help in the oil burning department.

discussions? can someone please fill me in on what I'm missing on using 5w20 oil.

It's just my opinion, but I believe 5w20 is not ideal for a number of reasons.
Here are my thoughts:



1. Any car that specs 5w20 can use 5w30 with no issues.

For example, in Japan, here is the manual for a car with the same engine in an RSX.



In the NA version, only 5w20 is recommended. Another thing to note is that in Japan for this engine, SL oils (an older spec) recommended where in NA, SM oil ir recommended.

2. Manufacturers that sell cars in North America that have lines of cars that use 5w20 qualify for fee reductions from CAFE regulations (corporate average fuel economy) This is incentive for car makers to push for 5w20.

Read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpora...e_Fuel_Economy


3. Cars that spec's 0w20 and 5w20 initially had some problems with oil consumption, were then spec'd back to 5w30. 8th Gen Corolla is one of these cars, I believe there was a TSB issued for this.

4. Cars that used to use 5w30 were then spec'd to use 5w20. Same engine, same car, just different year. A couple Ford models had this.

5. 5w20 causes more wear that 5w30, although 5w20 provides adequate protection as per SAE engine wear standards.

Spoiler!

6. 5w20's promises of increased fuel economy are virtually undetectable, although if a million cars used 5w20 vs 5w30, there would be a difference.


So, conclusions. 5w20 and 0w20 cause very slightly more engine wear, slightly more oil consumption at the expense of very very little fuel savings per vehicle. Cars that spec 5w20 can use 5w30 with zero repercussions. (I have yet to see any evidence against this. Cars used to spec different grades of oil for different ambient temperatures all the time; now it seems that cars want to use a one-oil-fits-all approach.)

I believe in a car that specs 5w20, you can use 5w30, or even 10w30 with zero issues. If you check the pour point for synthetic 10w30, they're good for temperature warmer than -20C. Your engine is not going to explode if you use a different grade of oil. My car's spec'd for 5w20, but I use a 5w30.

[skyxx]

Woot, glad the thread is back! With Prof liquid turbo at it!!!
Posted via RS Mobile

[Alphamale]

Originally Posted by LiquidTurbo

I believe in a car that specs 5w20, you can use 5w30, or even 10w30 with zero issues. If you check the pour point for synthetic 10w30, they're good for temperature warmer than -20C. Your engine is not going to explode if you use a different grade of oil. My car's spec'd for 5w20, but I use a 5w30.

I have personally found this not to be true. Depending on the age of the car and how well it's been taken care of, using 10w-30 on a 5w-20 or 5w-30 car may result in the car feeling "sluggish". This is of course, on Japanese and some American cars with American cars being more indifferent.

I'm not saying that you CAN'T use 10w-30 (as I'm sure as per the manual, it's probably okay and within spec)...some people have just told me they've felt a difference.

[Leopold Stotch]

lol try checking the oil in a VQ35 after you run it

i swear ihave to wait like 10-20 mins before it settles. the WORST dipstick design i've EVER seen and i used to change oil for cars lol

[death_blossom]

Originally Posted by LiquidTurbo

It's just my opinion, but I believe 5w20 is not ideal for a number of reasons.
Here are my thoughts:


....

so, you're agreeing with me?
you totally reinforced my opinion on why 5w20 isn't really that great of a lubricant.


as for the checking oil thing, I was taught something different from my Toyota mechanic. he would run the car, cut the ignition and check oil right away. he actually wanted oil in the head so he could check what oil was in the oil pan. he would then ensure it was full with all the extra oil in the head. the idea was that you would want an oil pan full of oil (or near full) when you are driving with the rest of the oil in the head. this idea comes into play more-so for cars that are being driven hard, at say, a track day. you would want full lubrication available in both the head and block.

so now, when I check oil I make sure it is a little bit over the Full mark when the car has been sitting for a while.

[LiquidTurbo]

Originally Posted by Leopold Stotch

lol try checking the oil in a VQ35 after you run it

i swear ihave to wait like 10-20 mins before it settles. the WORST dipstick design i've EVER seen and i used to change oil for cars lol

I agree with you, I've checked the oil in my friend's VQ. It's also impractical/annoying to wait 20min to do a simple oil check. I think if you do a check when car is hot, and cold, you can get an idea at the level fluctuation. As long as the oil is safely within the MIN and MAX, I think you're .

I don't think there's a car where hot and cold makes the difference between MIN and MAX... if there was, it's a pretty shitty designed car. . For my car, (K-series), the difference between 5min after shutoff and overnight cold is about 1/8 of a quart, which is 1/8 of the dipstick difference.

[LiquidTurbo]

Originally Posted by death_blossom

so, you're agreeing with me?
you totally reinforced my opinion on why 5w20 isn't really that great of a lubricant.

My opinion is that 5w20 is a 'good enough' lubrication solution, but not the best option. Car makers push for 5w20 as much as they can to reduce their CAFE fees.

I don't think it's right to classify the entire range of 5w20 as 'not that great'.

That being said, I'd happily use quality synthetic 5w20 over a low quality dino 5w30 made from a shitty basestock, assuming that 5w20 is spec'd for the application. But head to head same quality synthetic 5w20 vs 5w30, I'd take the minisicule, immeasurable drop in fuel econ for slightly better wear protection by using the 5w30.