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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Zerg
Posts: 959
Thanked 32 Times in 10 Posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freakshow
Can we just close this thread? I can't even believe we're talking about RSX vs M3.. You have a higher chance at seeing a triple rainbow than beating an M3 in an RSX.
Good point. We should all buy Toyota Corolla's, because they have a very very low cost of ownership.
Find me a $90,000 performance car (a la M3) that doesn't cost more to maintain than a $35,000 economy-oriented Honda.
Your stupidity knows no bounds.
Despite the fact that an M3 is head and shoulders above most japanese cars, I agree with Death2theft on the fact that coming from a typical japanese car, the steep repairs of an M3 can discourage many potential buyers.
I think it would be safe to assume that M3 replacement parts are likely 2-3 times that of a typical honda, which would make any rational person considering a used model cringe.
Despite the fact that an M3 is head and shoulders above most japanese cars, I agree with Death2theft on the fact that coming from a typical japanese car, the steep repairs of an M3 can discourage many potential buyers.
I think it would be safe to assume that M3 replacement parts are likely 2-3 times that of a typical honda, which would make any rational person considering a used model cringe.
That's just the reality of owning a high-performance vehicle. If you want to drive a $90,000 car that doesn't make any compromises in build quality/materials, then you have to pay more for parts.
Of course a Honda will be cheaper to repair. So will a Hyundai, a Toyota, a Mazda, etc. But none of these manufacturers make a car that can compete with the M3, and for the most part their cars don't come anywhere near $90,000 MSRP.
Will an M3 will cost more to own than a G35, for example? Yes, it likely will, but it cost $25k less when new and the M3 is a much better car overall imo.
If you buy a comparative car - say, an older NSX, an S4, or a Z06 - you'll pay just as much if not more to maintain it.
In other words, expensive cars are expensive to maintain... and that's a sacrifice you make when you choose to buy a high-end performance-oriented vehicle.
The M3 itself is not the issue; it's no more expensive than most comparable vehicles. In fact, when you compared it to a b6 Audi S4 or maybe a previous-gen AMG Merc, the M3 will probably be more reliable and cost less to maintain.
People on RS make it sound like European cars cost a fortune to maintain, but if you do your homework and don't get servicing done at the dealership, they're not ridiculously more costly for the most part.
Perhaps but i'd sure as hell hate to be one of those posers that bought something less than the top performance model yet have to shell out top performance dollars to get things fixed.
I agree that the m3 parts should be pricey but what ticks me off is the failure rate. Engine recall anyone? I'd gladly pay 3x more for german cars and parts if they failed only as often as honda parts. That and the downtime of constantly having the car in the shop is a big negative.
No way will an nsx nor a corvette cost more to maintain than an e46 no chance in hell.
Only if you compare it to other german makes will it be any cheaper to maintain.... if that. All euro car makers as of the last 10-20 years (exception to porsche) have been riding coat tails of previous claims of "reliability" They use the best components yet the stuff breaks more often. So go ahead and enjoy paying extra for your german (warming your ass at the stealership waiting lounge as your car gets fixed) engineering.
Perhaps but i'd sure as hell hate to be one of those posers that bought something less than the top performance model yet have to shell out top performance dollars to get things fixed.
I agree that the m3 parts should be pricey but what ticks me off is the failure rate. Engine recall anyone? I'd gladly pay 3x more for german cars and parts if they failed only as often as honda parts. That and the downtime of constantly having the car in the shop is a big negative.
No way will an nsx nor a corvette cost more to maintain than an e46 no chance in hell.
Only if you compare it to other german makes will it be any cheaper to maintain.... if that. All euro car makers as of the last 10-20 years (exception to porsche) have been riding coat tails of previous claims of "reliability" They use the best components yet the stuff breaks more often. So go ahead and enjoy paying extra for your german (warming your ass at the stealership waiting lounge as your car gets fixed) engineering.
1) There was no e46 M3 "engine recall". You are making this shit up. Stop spreading incorrect information.
A small portion of M3's produced between 10/01 - 12/01 (a two month period) in the 2002 model year had a problem with "contamination of the engine lubrication system". (Approximately 10% of the M3's built in this two month period were affected, meaning that it is a very very small percentage of all M3's on the road, considering they were produced for 72 months... and this is 10% of cars built in a 2 month window.)
Anyway, this engine issue is really a moot point now, as owners of vehicles with production dates within this range were contacted by BMW and urged to come in and have their oil pump and connecting rod bearings replaced. This was 100% complimentary and a replacement vehicle was provided at no cost during the repairs.
As a further response to this issue, BMW extended the warranty on all S54 engine equipped North American M3's and M Coupes/Roadsters to 6 years or 100,000 miles on internal mechanical engine components lubricated by engine oil.
2) Thanks for your comments about the M3 being more expensive to own than an NSX. Sadly, you're wrong. As a higher mileage e46 owner I can tell you that for the most part the cost of ownership is greatly exaggerated. Most e46's, including almost all M3's, have average or good reliability compared with their competitors.
An NSX is a supercar, and parts prices are even higher than they are for M3 parts. This is not always the case, but it often is, given that the NSX is a hand-built $120,000 vehicle. As an example, the $1800 window regulator fix in an NSX costs about $500 in an e46 M3.
Again, you clearly know absolutely nothing about M3's, so why not save yourself the embarrassment and stop posting in this thread?
Obviously you chose to neglect the fact that more than one person went out and had some "fun" driving their cars were given the third degree by the dealer via black box which read wrong saying they had overevved the car hence causing failure when it was clearly an factory issue. Imagine having to pay out of pocket to replace the engine from the factory if the warranty doesn't cover you. To boot unless the complimentary vehicle is an m3 then you may as well be driving a base model posermobile. Infact heres a guy that got stuck with a 300c when his "ultimate posing machine" was bought in after 50miles brand new 2010 with a CEL. as well as other horror stories. Enjoy the bmw experience! http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=439844
It would be amusing to see if you could find one nsx owner who has having half the nightmare the guy posting this thread is LOL.
Stats as of 2004 20,000 m3's affected in the us and as of 2004 28,600 m3's were sold in the US.
So how many times in it's life time will an nsx require it's window regulators replaced vs the standard bmw brakes replacement which requires rotors at oem cost of how much? Since when was a 330i a e46 m3? Your blowing smoke out of your ass and if the upkeep costs wern't so bad then the resale would be higher, this is a stigma bmw and mercs have bought unto themselves in the past 10-20 years and it's well deserved.
Perhaps one of the few cars out there were the manual version is truely faster than the smg!
0-100 km/h (62 mph) — 4.8 seconds for SMG, 4.6 seconds for Manual, 5.1 seconds for cabriolet
HAHAHA what german engineering!
Last edited by Death2Theft; 07-10-2010 at 10:20 AM.
^ FYI, bmw call in all the 01-03 M3's just because bmw just wanted to provide the extra caution even though they knew exactly how many vehicles was affected by the bad bearings. Not that 20,000/28600 M engine was affected.
So how many times in it's life time will an nsx require it's window regulators replaced vs the standard bmw brakes replacement which requires rotors at oem cost of how much? Since when was a 330i a e46? Your blowing smoke out of your ass and if the upkeep costs wern't so bad then the resale would be higher, this is a stigma bmw and mercs have bought unto themselves in the past 10-20 years and it's well deserved.
Clearly as the topic states we are talking about the e46 M3. Go tool around in your yaris you've obviously got nothing to contribute since you really own one.
[QUOTE=.Renn.Sport;7023345][/QUOTE
Clearly as the topic states we are talking about the e46 M3. Go tool around in your yaris you've obviously got nothing to contribute since you really own one.
I think i know more about the M3 then most of the ppl on this forum
Obviously you chose to neglect the fact that more than one person went out and had some "fun" driving their cars were given the third degree by the dealer via black box which read wrong saying they had overevved the car hence causing failure when it was clearly an factory issue. Imagine having to pay out of pocket to replace the engine from the factory if the warranty doesn't cover you. To boot unless the complimentary vehicle is an m3 then you may as well be driving a base model posermobile.
What is this conspiracy theory bullshit?
Infact heres a guy that got stuck with a 300c when his "ultimate posing machine" was bought in after 50miles brand new 2010 with a CEL. as well as other horror stories. Enjoy the bmw experience! http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=439844
It would be amusing to see if you could find one nsx owner who has having half the nightmare the guy posting this thread is LOL.
What "black box" was used to prove M3 owners were over-revving the engine? I've never heard of this, and I actively surf the e46fantatics forum. Again, I call bullshit.
And you posted a link to a guy having issues with his 2010 M3, which is not an e46. (Which is ironic, since you clearly stated in your most recent post that "we're talking about the e46 m3".)
And what do you think the Honda/Acura dealership is going to give you when you go in for servicing? An RL? Dream on, you'll be lucky to get a CSX or Accord.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death2Theft
So how many times in it's life time will an nsx require it's window regulators replaced vs the standard bmw brakes replacement which requires rotors at OEM cost of how much?
Brakes on an M3 would most likely be less expensive than on an NSX.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death2Theft
Since when was a 330i a e46 m3? Your blowing smoke out of your ass and if the upkeep costs wern't so bad then the resale would be higher, this is a stigma bmw and mercs have bought unto themselves in the past 10-20 years and it's well deserved.
I own a 330ci, and thus it's 95% identical to an M3. Window regulators are exactly the same, for instance, and therefore I know exactly how much they cost.
Also, one of my close friends owns an e46 M3, and I helped him research & buy it, so I understand the recalls and reliability issues. They're no worse than you'd find in any other performance vehicle. (And no, an RSX does not count as a "performance vehicle", sorry.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death2Theft
Perhaps one of the few cars out there were the manual version is truely faster than the smg!
0-100 km/h (62 mph) — 4.8 seconds for SMG, 4.6 seconds for Manual, 5.1 seconds for cabriolet
HAHAHA what german engineering!
SMG is a unique to BMW, so I'm not sure which "other cars out there" you would be comparing it to. And many vehicles are faster with a manual than an semi-automatic tranny, so it's really not shocking at all. Nor does it say anything for "German engineering"...
Troll elsewhere man. You clearly know nothing about cars, so you're just making yourself look like a moron.
And what do you think the Honda/Acura dealership is going to give you when you go in for servicing? An RL? Dream on, you'll be lucky to get a CSX or Accord.
BMW on the other hand have given me 745i, 545i, X5 4.8, Z4, 335i etc as courtesy cars before
There were a number of months that went by when the S54 first started to experience failures during which many owners were treated as having over rev'd the engine, and I mean really over rev'd, not exceeded some non-limited "break in" limit. (At one point it was even determined that the ECU could have a false high rev achieved number stored.) Ultimately when enough cases presented themselves and the issue was traced to the rod bearings BMW changed its tune, announced a recall, and offered an extended warranty. This was all well documented on a number of sites at the time. The best archive that I recall is...
3/4 of the first page re: christian miller http://www.m3forum.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000811.html
two posts after that by bbj with the attitude of how he was treated and how he must have really been revving the shit out of the engine, when it fact the DME black box reading is at fault.
Being that it's 8 years old now the archives of people having such problems and bmw blaming them for "over rev" refusing warranty claims did infact happen. I specifically recall this. So basically people were screwed until LOTS of other m3's were having this problem. Finnally they take fault, meanwhile these m3 owners are stuck with busted cars. I'm sure when the owners complained to the dealership, they gave them the same "you know nothing about cars" attitude your so fond of.
The reason I bought up the 2010 m3 case was because it was newer because it's easier to find than horror stories from an 8 year old model. The point of storey is to show that it's a pain in the ass dealing with bmw.
True you wont get an nsx as a loaner if u bought your nsx in however, if you'd like to compare the number of nsx owners who had to bring their cars in for work i'm positive it is fewer than m3's.
A brake job on a base model or any bmw such as yours costs more than most simply because unlike the rest of the planet bmw requires you to change your rotors along with your pads. I highly doubt a brake pad change could be more costly on an nsx. I guess I dont know anything about cars compared to some wanabe m3 leghumper who is too sophisticated to get his hands dirty.
I guess if your car is 95% the same as the m3 then it sure sucks to be the 5% stuck with broken engines and cracked subframes. Keep dreaming buddy if the m3 has problems passing a rsx, than you best not even attempt to because as you like to say you'd be "making yourself look like a moron"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaru
What "black box" was used to prove M3 owners were over-revving the engine? I've never heard of this, and I actively surf the e46fantatics forum. Again, I call bullshit.
And you posted a link to a guy having issues with his 2010 M3, which is not an e46. (Which is ironic, since you clearly stated in your most recent post that "we're talking about the e46 m3".)
And what do you think the Honda/Acura dealership is going to give you when you go in for servicing? An RL? Dream on, you'll be lucky to get a CSX or Accord.
Brakes on an M3 would most likely be less expensive than on an NSX.
I own a 330ci, and thus it's 95% identical to an M3. Window regulators are exactly the same, for instance, and therefore I know exactly how much they cost.
Also, one of my close friends owns an e46 M3, and I helped him research & buy it, so I understand the recalls and reliability issues. They're no worse than you'd find in any other performance vehicle. (And no, an RSX does not count as a "performance vehicle", sorry.)
SMG is a unique to BMW, so I'm not sure which "other cars out there" you would be comparing it to. And many vehicles are faster with a manual than an semi-automatic tranny, so it's really not shocking at all. Nor does it say anything for "German engineering"...
Troll elsewhere man. You clearly know nothing about cars, so you're just making yourself look like a moron.
Last edited by Death2Theft; 07-11-2010 at 01:10 PM.
Feel free to resort to the video posted earlier in this thread, I dont own a rsx.
If you havn't caught the idea it's me saying that a "measly" honda can beat down your imaginary m3.
However if you would like to show up at the next meet please let me know ahead of time as everyone would love to see you along with your imaginary m3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by .Renn.Sport
please bring out that super RSX of yours....
my stock M3 have no problem smoking modded DC5-R, I don't see how that RSX is faster then ANY Type R
There were a number of months that went by when the S54 first started to experience failures during which many owners were treated as having over rev'd the engine, and I mean really over rev'd, not exceeded some non-limited "break in" limit. (At one point it was even determined that the ECU could have a false high rev achieved number stored.) Ultimately when enough cases presented themselves and the issue was traced to the rod bearings BMW changed its tune, announced a recall, and offered an extended warranty. This was all well documented on a number of sites at the time. The best archive that I recall is...
3/4 of the first page re: christian miller http://www.m3forum.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000811.html
two posts after that by bbj with the attitude of how he was treated and how he must have really been revving the shit out of the engine, when it fact the DME black box reading is at fault.
Being that it's 8 years old now the archives of people having such problems and bmw blaming them for "over rev" refusing warranty claims did infact happen. I specifically recall this. So basically people were screwed until LOTS of other m3's were having this problem. Finnally they take fault, meanwhile these m3 owners are stuck with busted cars.
So in other words, what you're saying is that BMW admitted there was a problem and issued a service action and replaced the parts on any cars that could possibly be affected. And what exactly where they supposed to do?
I'm not going to sit here and defend BMW NA, because I'm not always fond of their business practices, but they're no better or worse than any other company.
I'm sure when the owners complained to the dealership, they gave them the same "you know nothing about cars" attitude your so fond of.
That's rather presumptuous, don't you think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death2Theft
The reason I bought up the 2010 m3 case was because it was newer because it's easier to find than horror stories from an 8 year old model. The point of storey is to show that it's a pain in the ass dealing with bmw.
So you're willing to make a judgement on an entire company based on one person's experience (which may or may not be true) at one dealership? That's especially funny since the guy's problem ended up getting solved under warranty, for free, and he was given a loaner vehicle.
Anyway, Honda must be a disastrous company to deal with given the link I proved above... I mean, if one customer complaint indicates that BMW is an awful company, then the 300 complaints above must indicate Honda is the worst company on the planet... right?
No, obviously not. BMW sold 1.2 million vehicles last year... do you really think that one complaint from one customer at one franchised dealership indicates the company is "a pain in the ass to deal with?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death2Theft
True you wont get an nsx as a loaner if u bought your nsx in however, if you'd like to compare the number of nsx owners who had to bring their cars in for work i'm positive it is fewer than m3's.
Got any proof of this, or are you just pulling it out of your ass?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death2Theft
A brake job on a base model or any bmw such as yours costs more than most simply because unlike the rest of the planet bmw requires you to change your rotors along with your pads.
No... no, they don't. You have clearly made this up, and once again you have indicated that you know nothing about cars and even less about BMW's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death2Theft
I highly doubt a brake pad change could be more costly on an nsx.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death2Theft
I guess I dont know anything about cars compared to some wanabe m3 leghumper who is too sophisticated to get his hands dirty.
Apparently. In this thread you have managed to:
1) claim a 200bhp fwd car is faster than a 333bhp rwd car;
2) demonstrate that you do not know what an e46 is;
3) make up statistics and fabricate false info regarding the m3;
4) pass judgement on an entire company based on one customer complaint.
So... yes, you know less than an "M3 leghumper", and you've demonstrated that very clearly in this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death2Theft
I guess if your car is 95% the same as the m3 then it sure sucks to be the 5% stuck with broken engines and cracked subframes.
...sorry? Not only does this not make sense, it's ridiculously presumptuous once again. I've owned my car for 2.5 years and to date it has been as reliable as my previous car (an Acura Integra).
It's also an absolutely fantastic car. If you stopped trolling for a minute and drove one, you'd realize this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death2Theft
Keep dreaming buddy if the m3 has problems passing a rsx, than you best not even attempt to because as you like to say you'd be "making yourself look like a moron"
I don't even know where to start with this, so I'll just ignore it.
I will, however, re-post the following in hopes that your retarded ass will stop claiming that an RSX is faster than an M3:
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