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09-22-2010, 12:50 PM
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#1 | OMGWTFBBQ is a common word I say everyday
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| Article: The death of do-it-yourself
During my daily survey of the Globe and Mail, I came across this piece by Peter Cheney. Quote: The death of do-it-yourself
The art of home auto repair has been shuffled to the scrap heap
For a guy who grew up rebuilding cars in his parent's garage, it was a bit of a shock to find out that Audi once made a vehicle with a hood that didn't open. What kind of sacrilege was this?
And yet I wasn't really surprised the sealed hood had a certain historical inevitability to it. Like reality TV, Sarah Palin, and the exportation of jobs to China, it's a sign of the times. Most drivers don't even check the oil any more. So why open the hood?
With the Europe-only A2 model that was on the market from 1999 to 2005, Audi just took things to their logical conclusion. Want to check the alternator belt tension? Forget it. How about a jump-start? Forget that, too. What about the time-honored tradition of lifting the hood and contemplating the engine? Nope. Access denied.
This part really stung. For a car nut, an engine compartment is like a shrine. We stare at the motor as a penitent gazes upon the statue of a saint. The physical object itself means little. What matters is the miracle that it represents an internal-combustion engine is a self-contained mechanical cosmos, a symphony of spinning metal parts that capture the energy of an explosion to carry us down the road.
But the A2's engine was sealed off like the Pope's Vatican chambers, accessible only to the anointed. No gazing allowed. You could dismiss the A2's hood as a minor technical detail. But it's more than that. The sealed hood is a sign of the times.
We have been gradually disconnected from mechanical reality. We use devices without being required to understand them and that has profound implications for us all. I don't know anybody who works on their own car any more. Even though I used to be a professional mechanic, I rarely do it myself. It's partly due to time pressure. But it's also because today's cars call for expensive diagnostic equipment that no home mechanic can afford.
Modern cars are also less needy. If necessary, my family Honda will run for years without a tune-up. (Its fuel and ignition systems self-adjust. So do the hydraulic valve lifters). But I grew up with cars that couldn't live without me. Like my beloved VW Beetles left to their own devices, their ignition timing drifted, their cylinders heads loosened, and their valves slipped out of adjustment, clattering like cheap castanets.
It was up to me to set things right. I'd wake up early on Saturday, break out my Snap-On wrenches, and minister to my little car. I snugged the heads down with a torque wrench, adjusted the valves, then changed the spark plugs, studying the old ones for signs of trouble (white ash meant a lean mixture, black meant too rich, an even brown indicated that all was well). I set the ignition with a timing light, an act that always struck me as magical under the white pulse of the strobe, the spinning fan pulley stood still, its timing mark revealed.
The test drive was a celebration my car no longer clattered, coughed, or pulled to one side. It hummed, and it went straight. And I did it myself. When I was a teenager, my dad taught me how to change the engine oil on our Mercury Comet. We drained the oil into a pan and ran our fingers through it, studying its colour and its constituency. More than once, we found trouble metal shavings spoke of a bad crank bearing. Streaks of coolant gave away a failing head gasket.
Knowing how to fix a car used to mean something. In university, I studied the classics. My abiding memory was of Odysseus returning home to slay the suitors who had invaded his house. To me, overhauling an engine was a less dramatic version of the same process I had driven out the forces of mechanical disorder.
So how could I imagine that the golden age of the home mechanic was approaching its end?
When I was in my teens, almost every high school had an auto shop. By the time I was in my late twenties, that had started to change, thanks to budgetary pressures and academic streaming. Today, they have been eradicated with few exceptions, they are found only in trade schools, which are seen as dumping grounds for kids who aren't smart enough for university.
I wonder what Leonardo da Vinci would have thought?
A while back, I walked through Northern Secondary, a huge Toronto school that was built about 80 years ago. It was still a busy operation, with thousands of students, and the air of a well-worn castle. But one part of it had gone dark the industrial arts wing. A teacher who had set up new auto and welding shops back in the 1960s gave me a sobering tour of his dismantled empire cobwebs gathered over a collection of rusted machinery.
There was no money for the shop program. None of the kids wanted to take auto repair or welding any more. Why would they? The age of do-it-yourself had been dismantled. The mechanic had been relegated to the role of repairman, the guy who toiled in a grease pit so rich people could drive somewhere without thinking about how their car worked.
I called up Pete Brock, a legendary car designer who now lives in Redmond, Wash. (He designed the Shelby Cobra coupe and helped shape the original Corvette Stingray) No one wants to make stuff themselves any more, Brock said. Everything's virtual. You do things on a computer screen, not in metal.
If ever there was a renaissance man, it is Brock, whose career has been defined by a combination of mechanical ingenuity, artistry and an intellectual appreciation of machinery. Among Brock's accomplishments are the creation of a famous auto racing team, helping Carroll Shelby beat Ferrari at Le Mans, and designing a series of gliders that reshaped the world of ultralight aviation. Now Brock designs and builds racing accessories at a new company he founded with his wife. Generations of car nuts consider him a guru.
To Brock, a good machine is the elegant, real-world expression of an idea, not just something to be used and cast aside when it breaks. Machines are philosophies, expressed in metal.
Brock sees the closed car hoods and the darkened school shops as an omen. We used to make stuff, and we were the best in the world at it, he said. Now they do everything in China, and we have all these kids staring at computer screens. It's the greatest loss we've ever had.
Amen. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...rticle1707599/ | |
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09-22-2010, 12:56 PM
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#2 | RS.net, helping ugly ppl have sex since 2001
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Nice article. Too many people nowadays just aren't used to working with their hands; they can barely put together a peice of Ikea furniture together let alone changing their oil. It also doesn't help that new cars nowadays are so propreitary and digitized that you couldn't do anything to it if you tried.
I really wish I had taken auto shop class in High School. I can do some minor maintenance with my car, but taking apart a head and changing the head gasket is beyond me.
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09-22-2010, 01:03 PM
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#3 | Rider
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I set the ignition with a timing light, an act that always struck me as magical – under the white pulse of the strobe, the spinning fan pulley stood still, its timing mark revealed.
| lol +1
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09-22-2010, 01:11 PM
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#4 | Banned (ABWS)
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Modern cars are also less needy. If necessary, my family Honda will run for years without a tune-up. (Its fuel and ignition systems self-adjust. So do the hydraulic valve lifters). But I grew up with cars that couldn't live without me. Like my beloved VW Beetles left to their own devices, their ignition timing drifted, their cylinders heads loosened, and their valves slipped out of adjustment, clattering like cheap castanets.
| I think this is the most profound part of the article. Cars are like appliances now, we expect them to work cause for the most part they do.
My father used to pack tools on our road trips from Ottawa to Montreal to visit my grandparents. I did the same trip in Aug without even thinking of breaking down, I had done it so often before without issue.
Even if I had a breakdown I can simply call CAA and have my car towed home, the modern convenience of a cell phone, rather than hope for a stranger to stop and give me a hand or a ride. Quote:
But it's also because today's cars call for expensive diagnostic equipment that no home mechanic can afford.
| This part I don't agree with at all. People often comment that working on a Mercedes must be difficult, cause they have associated German engineering with complexity beyond their understanding. It is just a car. I can do almost everything with just a ODB scanner and a toolset.
The Star Diagnostic machine at the dealer would help, it gives more information and allows access to items in the ECU, yet so far I haven't required it and there's not much I haven't worked on my car, hell even the engine was swapped by a mom-pop garage without all the fancy electronics.
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09-22-2010, 01:13 PM
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#5 | Prince of the Apes
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Luckily I wont be buying a new vehicle for a very long time. I like seeing the ins and outs of cars. Why would you seal the hood though? Sure theres tech to do this and that but theres always a chance of failure, especially in something this mechanical.
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09-22-2010, 01:14 PM
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#6 | Banned (ABWS)
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Originally Posted by sonick It also doesn't help that new cars nowadays are so propreitary and digitized that you couldn't do anything to it if you tried. | I just commented on this, so since you seem to think so, can you please describe what is "proprietary and digitized" on a common car that a weekend warrior cannot fix?
I'm not being an ass, I'm looking for examples. Maybe we can dispel this myth once and for all.
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09-22-2010, 01:20 PM
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#7 | RS.net, helping ugly ppl have sex since 2001
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Well basically any kind of ECU-related issue, especially all the new cars with drive/brake/throttle/steer-by-wire systems.
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09-22-2010, 01:23 PM
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#8 | I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
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Originally Posted by taylor192 I just commented on this, so since you seem to think so, can you please describe what is "proprietary and digitized" on a common car that a weekend warrior cannot fix?
I'm not being an ass, I'm looking for examples. Maybe we can dispel this myth once and for all. | You can't adjust any of your engine performance parameters anymore... at least, your average weekend warrior can't. All computer-controlled. Expect it won't be long (if some high-end cars aren't there already) before even the computer port access will be encrypted and locked out to all but authorized mechanics' diagnostic systems.
Granted, the computers themselves are pretty smart at adjusting to other changes... I remember a story from a car mag several years ago, where a guy had put the injectors from a Buick Grand National's V6 into his new LS-1 Corvette, and the computer compensated automatically.
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09-22-2010, 01:47 PM
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#9 | RS has made me the bitter person i am today!
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Modern cars are too computerized these days to really do any major work by an average joe, and no one wants to spend 300 bucks on a part to only fuck it up even worse
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09-22-2010, 01:55 PM
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#10 | Rs has made me the woman i am today!
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Damn automakers are making cars more sophisticated with all these computerized stuff in the cars now. Which gives you really no choice but go to them to get your car fixed/maintained.
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09-22-2010, 02:02 PM
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#11 | I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
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^ Depends on your car. Correct me if I'm wrong, but last time I checked, changing brake pads and oil don't require a computer, and that's 80% of the required maintenance on a car. Imo the only real stuff that's really computerized is stuff that most people would only touch when TUNING a car.
I recently stopped doing all services at the stealer when I realized that ALL their "regular" service, including the "major" maintenance items, can be done using $200 worth of tools at home + parts. AND you learn a lot too.
The only time I needed a computer setting changed in the last 7 years is when I retrofitted factory HIDs into the car.
Last edited by slammer111; 09-22-2010 at 02:45 PM.
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09-22-2010, 02:05 PM
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#12 | Banned (ABWS)
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Originally Posted by Soundy You can't adjust any of your engine performance parameters anymore... at least, your average weekend warrior can't. All computer-controlled. Expect it won't be long (if some high-end cars aren't there already) before even the computer port access will be encrypted and locked out to all but authorized mechanics' diagnostic systems.
Granted, the computers themselves are pretty smart at adjusting to other changes... I remember a story from a car mag several years ago, where a guy had put the injectors from a Buick Grand National's V6 into his new LS-1 Corvette, and the computer compensated automatically. | Ok fair enough, yet the weekend warrior I was referencing is just the guy who does his own maintenance and repairs. For someone building a performance machine, sure you cannot, yet most tuners offer piggy back ECUs or maps that a mechanic with the right tools can download for you. You can still do the majority of the work yourself.
I increased the boost on my car by 5 psi (11->16) without having to change any ECU setting. The computer automatically detects the increased airflow and adjusts accordingly. If I wanted, I could have paid $25 to have the dealer flip a fuel setting to ensure the ECU compensated.
The OBD will never be encrypted. The reason it exists is cause they wanted to standardize the systems so any mechanic can work on any car. In fact the opposite of what you're contemplating might very well happen - more standards and more compatibility.
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09-22-2010, 02:10 PM
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#13 | Banned (ABWS)
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Originally Posted by Qmx323 Modern cars are too computerized these days to really do any major work by an average joe, and no one wants to spend 300 bucks on a part to only fuck it up even worse | Quote:
Originally Posted by dvxo Damn automakers are making cars more sophisticated with all these computerized stuff in the cars now. Which gives you really no choice but go to them to get your car fixed/maintained. | Quote:
Originally Posted by slammer111 Correct me if I'm wrong, but last time I checked, changing brake pads and oil don't require a computer, and that's 80% of the required maintenance on a car. Imo the only real stuff that's really computerized is stuff that most people would only touch when TUNING a car. | Qmx323, dvxo, and anyone else want to comment on exactly what is so complicated, sophisticated and computerized?
slammer has it bang on, you can do the majority of maintenance on any car without a computer. Brakes, suspension, fuel, filter, exhaust, alternator, battery, water pump, steering, rad, belts, bushings, plugs, coil packs, tires, ... and a simple OBD scanner ($50) will let you diagnose all but the most difficult/intermittent problems.
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09-22-2010, 02:31 PM
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#14 | OMGWTFBBQ is a common word I say everyday
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Originally Posted by taylor192 Qmx323, dvxo, and anyone else want to comment on exactly what is so complicated, sophisticated and computerized?
slammer has it bang on, you can do the majority of maintenance on any car without a computer. Brakes, suspension, fuel, filter, exhaust, alternator, battery, water pump, steering, rad, belts, bushings, plugs, coil packs, tires, ... and a simple OBD scanner ($50) will let you diagnose all but the most difficult/intermittent problems. | I think another issue has to do with modern car design and engineering.
For example, engine bays are cramped these days which makes routine maintenance a time-consuming affair. Sure, components are designed to have higher lifespans, but when they fail, they take a longer time to replace (i.e. taking out several components to access the faulty one.) Also, modern cars have all sorts of sensors and electronic features of questionable utility which makes replacing them a time-consuming and expensive affair. The service indicator board and the check control panels on a mid-1980s BMW are bad enough - what about today's cars?
I've also heard some whispers about a gradual shift away from on-board diagnostics - perhaps to more proprietary systems. Is there any truth to this?
To me, what has happened all makes sense because auto makers have to continue to make money. The market demanded more reliable cars, so manufacturers responded. But, every car still needs servicing every now and again, so they've designed the mechanicals to make it intimidating to the average person in order to force that person to take his car in for servicing. Quote:
I really wish I had taken auto shop class in High School. I can do some minor maintenance with my car, but taking apart a head and changing the head gasket is beyond me.
| Taking apart things and putting them back together isn't supposed to be hard, but it is still time-consuming and you need to have a good set of tools. I have the proper manuals, but what they say is a 1-2 hour job is really more like an 8 hour job for me.
Last edited by Tapioca; 09-22-2010 at 02:46 PM.
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09-22-2010, 03:03 PM
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#15 | Banned (ABWS)
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Originally Posted by Tapioca I think another issue has to do with modern car design and engineering.
For example, engine bays are cramped these days which makes routine maintenance a time-consuming affair. Sure, components are designed to have higher lifespans, but when they fail, they take a longer time to replace (i.e. taking out several components to access the faulty one.) | When my brother showed me he has to remove a wheel and fender lining to replace a light bulb I died a little inside. WTF! That is akin to the "sealed hood", requiring tools for something so very simple.
OTOH I haven't replaced a HID bulb in my car yet, 5 years and counting. Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapioca Also, modern cars have all sorts of sensors and electronic features of questionable utility which makes replacing them a time-consuming and expensive affair. | good choice of words
I have a few electronic features that have failed on my car and I just ignore them, yet they drive my GF nuts. Ie I have a bulb out error message yet the bulb is working just fine. She would pay a mechanic to fix this, yet I don't see it being worthwhile on a 8yo $6K car.
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09-22-2010, 03:33 PM
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#16 | I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
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Originally Posted by taylor192 The OBD will never be encrypted. The reason it exists is cause they wanted to standardize the systems so any mechanic can work on any car. In fact the opposite of what you're contemplating might very well happen - more standards and more compatibility. | I don't know... I can forsee a move to make them so the ECU (okay, the freakin' supercomputer - ECU is so old-school now) is read-only and limited to only certain information unless you have the specific manufacturer equipment/plugin/license code/etc.
Like right now, any shmuck with a laptop can buy a USB cable and some software, plug into their OBDII port, and fuck around with the engine settings. It wouldn't surprise me a bit to see SOME manufacturers lock things down so the home tweaker can maybe SEE some of the parameters, maybe pull error codes... but any actual adjustments would require something (an interface, a code, a complete machine, whatever) that's either available only to authorized service shops, or costs a small fortune.
It's no different than car makers designing things to use specialized tools that are either stupidly expensive, or only sold to authorized shops. Quote:
Originally Posted by taylor192 Qmx323, dvxo, and anyone else want to comment on exactly what is so complicated, sophisticated and computerized?
slammer has it bang on, you can do the majority of maintenance on any car without a computer. Brakes, suspension, fuel, filter, exhaust, alternator, battery, water pump, steering, rad, belts, bushings, plugs, coil packs, tires, ... and a simple OBD scanner ($50) will let you diagnose all but the most difficult/intermittent problems. | A lot of that stuff is easy enough... then again, some are beyond the weekend warrior just by simple physical design. Case in point: both my current 2003 MPV work van and our previous '96 Grand Caravan, transverse-mounted V6... the rear plugs are nearly impossible to access without completely removing the intake, or the exhaust, or going in from underneath with a shitload of extensions and U-joints on your ratchet.
No, it's not impossible to do, but it's a FUCK of a lot of work for something that should be just basic maintenance, especially if your "weekend warrior" doesn't have a good range of tools.
Meantime, there are (or have been in the past) some ABS systems that get confused if you replace your own brakes...
Airbags can always be a danger if you're working on the interior, especially under the dash... when I was doing car audio, they told us one story of an installer who was poking around with a test light, looking for a live circuit to tie an alarm into... trigger the airbag, which hit his head and broke his neck.
So yeah, while there's lots of things you CAN still do, there are more and more that you probably SHOULDN'T. Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapioca I think another issue has to do with modern car design and engineering.
For example, engine bays are cramped these days which makes routine maintenance a time-consuming affair. Sure, components are designed to have higher lifespans, but when they fail, they take a longer time to replace (i.e. taking out several components to access the faulty one.) | See above re: plugs in a transverse V6...
Of course, this isn't limited to new cars... ever had to change an alternator on a 3rd-gen (86-89) Accord? What an ordeal - you either have to remove an engine mount and jack up one end of the engine to make room to slip it out, or you have to drop it down, slide it across the crossmember, rotate over the rear engine mount, possibly removing a hose or two to make room...
Ditto the water pump: all the bolts for it are readily accessibly, save one, which is UNDER the timing belt cover. Short of taking off that section of cover with a Dremel, the procedure is to remove the front wheel, remove the inner shroud, remove the main pulley, then remove the cover itself, so you can FINALLY get at that last bolt. Quote:
To me, what has happened all makes sense because auto makers have to continue to make money. The market demanded more reliable cars, so manufacturers responded. But, every car still needs servicing every now and again, so they've designed the mechanicals to make it intimidating to the average person in order to force that person to take his car in for servicing.
| I picture some shrimpy little Japanese engineer, still bitter over WWII and suffering from small-man syndrome, sitting in his office at Honda cackling at all the headaches these little design oddities will cause the North American mechanics... Quote:
Also, modern cars have all sorts of sensors and electronic features of questionable utility which makes replacing them a time-consuming and expensive affair. The service indicator board and the check control panels on a mid-1980s BMW are bad enough - what about today's cars?
| Friend of mine has a 2000 Windstar. The computer that runs the dash lights (among other things) is buggered up, so that they're on all the time. To avoid draining the battery, he has to disconnect the battery every time he parks it. That means the ECU is always losing its data, so he can't AirCare it. Replacing the necessary computer is a $250-$300 proposition, and it has to be programmed by Ford to work with the specific van's anti-theft system; he can't just get one from the wrecker and just plug it in. Quote:
I've also heard some whispers about a gradual shift away from on-board diagnostics - perhaps to more proprietary systems. Is there any truth to this?
| Taylor192 thinks not... I fully expect that while many manufacturers may stay with "open" systems, some WILL go to more proprietary ones.
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Originally Posted by Godzira Does anyone know how many to a signature? | .. Quote:
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09-22-2010, 04:10 PM
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#17 | I subscribe to Revscene
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i had a buddy who once asked me to show him to how change car oil................
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09-22-2010, 05:20 PM
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#18 | Rs has made me the man i am today!
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I can see where that guy is coming from. Nowadays, kids don't even bother with owning a car during university as public transit works just fine for most. Times are changing.
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09-22-2010, 07:25 PM
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#19 | straight from the fields of squamton
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check engine light comes on, in your 2008 volvo with 100k kms
what do?
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09-22-2010, 08:36 PM
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#20 | Banned (ABWS)
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Originally Posted by 1990TSI check engine light comes on, in your 2008 volvo with 100k kms
what do? | Read the code.
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09-22-2010, 09:43 PM
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#21 | Even when im right, revscene.net is still right!
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well that made me extremely depressed...
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09-23-2010, 03:32 PM
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#22 | straight from the fields of squamton
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Originally Posted by taylor192 Read the code. | with what?
you have a volvo scan tool sitting around?
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09-23-2010, 05:40 PM
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#23 | Willing to sell body for a few minutes on RS
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Even though I can work on cars, if my daily driver were to break down I'd probably just take it to a shop. It's not worth my time to fuck around with, nor do I have all the specialty tools but I also don't get any enjoyment out of working on a car when it's broken.
Working on something like my Mustang is a different story, I can work on it on my own time, and don't have to worry that if I don't get it done for the next day I won't have a car to drive to work. That's the kind of working on cars I enjoy.
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09-23-2010, 06:06 PM
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#24 | Rs has made me the woman i am today!
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With denser living such as apartments, those people aren't going to be DIY either.
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09-23-2010, 10:53 PM
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#25 | Banned (ABWS)
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Originally Posted by 1990TSI with what?
you have a volvo scan tool sitting around? | A 2008 Volvo supports OBDII, no special "volvo" tool is required.
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