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11-30-2010, 08:51 AM
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#301 | | Need to Seek Professional Help
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by MelonBoy  I dont get why they dont just ban his ass for life .. License taken away.. I mean there should be no tolerance for street racing.. | Worst penalty ever.... you gots an F430 Scuderia and you can't even drive it!! 
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11-30-2010, 09:14 AM
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#302 | | they call me the snowman
Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: online
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Originally Posted by dangonay These guys never went to court, so making claims that the only reason they had their cars taken was because of something they "might" do or because they were "expensive" cars is pointless. | That's the key to this whole situation. If I was caught speeding, and they took my car away, I would have a lawyer on that asap. To me, this is a case where the cars were acquired through illicit means, OR, the owners wanted to "save face". In other words, don't fight the power, and you'll get *some* money back. Plus, we won't tell the public who you are.
I don't think there will be a rash of seizures coming from this in the future. It was a good story, and the law looked like heroes in the process.
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11-30-2010, 10:03 AM
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#303 | | Need my Daily Fix of RS
Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: vancouver
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Am I reading this right?
The owner can buy this car back for $47,000. The gov is only really asking for a huge fine 20% of the sale price. If the owner goes in to the dealership drops 235k to buy the car back 1 party get's 50% returned the other get's 30% the remaining 20% to Gordo. I'd buy my car back if I'm correct on how this deal is going down.
I'm can't believe the civil forfiture act can be applied this way, Sure everyone is happy to hear when a house or car is taken from a pot grower with no legit income. Were these guys charged with cc offence and convicted? A mva ticket does not make you a criminal, The car's/drivers were impounded/ticketed under a mva infraction not a cc offence but the car is being seized as proceeds of crime.
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11-30-2010, 05:11 PM
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#304 | | NEWBIE ACCOUNT!
Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Vancouver
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This whole thing doesn't make any sense to me. I've been up Seymour many times and it makes me wonder at what point the police witness first hand that the cars were doing 200km/h let along the question wether the BMW could keep up with the Scuderia. The only way to acheive that kind of speed is on a straightaway obviously. If memory serves me right, there is not enough space on the side of the roads for a parked police car. That photo of the Ferrari on a flat bed tow truck was taken on the top parking lot of Seymour Mountain which tells me that it was where the police pulled them over. If the police pulled them over before they reached the top, the Ferrari would ended up in one of those smaller parking lots on the way up. So the Ferrari was going 200km just right before he "entered" the top parking and the poilce happened to be there and took a reading of his speed with the BMW followed "closely" behind? The more I think about it, the more I believe the whole thing is bullshit and I suspect the two drivers were given harsh punishments based on assumptions without any hardcore evidence... The media were definately "used" by the government.
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11-30-2010, 06:57 PM
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#305 | | Marcosexual Fan Club, CEO
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: US Bush-country
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by dangonay
Marco. Come on, bringing up the Nazis and Jews? Stretching things a little, aren't we?
| I'm not comparing the BC government to the Nazis. I'm comparing your declared apathy to an erosion of civil rights to that of German citizens during the Third Reich. Quote: |
BTW, when you say "The potential return on investment", why do you make the assumption this means they will only go after the wealthy? When I think of return on investment I think of expenses vs income. Expenses being the time & money to go to court and the income being the return from assets. You are only talking about the income side of things, not the expenses. If the police have concrete evidence of someone doing something wrong, then they will go after them, even if the car is only worth $20K.
| Riddle me this: If either of those individuals had the car registered 100% in someone elses name, would the govt be able to seize the asset?
If your answer is NO, you just admitted that the govt is unable to apply penalties evenly and shouldn't be in the business of seizing private assets from citizens.
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11-30-2010, 09:43 PM
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#306 | | RS Peace Officer
Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Vancouver Islan
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They might have killed someone while racing. That's what the argument for seizure is focusing on, the fact that their actions were dangerous and might have hurt someone. Even though the truth was that no one was hurt in this situation. Other than the car owners.
So if someone takes a gun and fires off a few shots that just miss hitting and killing someone, you must apply the same reasoning. If you had done so, the crown would seize your gun, so why the different opinion about cars?
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11-30-2010, 10:20 PM
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#307 | | I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: CELICAland
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oh god is this thread still going on....
is Marco still standing up for rights that he feels cannot be contravened? which in actuality can be infringed upon if the govt so declares?
i proffered it when Marco just stuck to his fairy tales
if you keep feeding him he will come
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11-30-2010, 10:25 PM
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#308 | | Marcosexual Fan Club, CEO
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: US Bush-country
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Originally Posted by StylinRed oh god is this thread still going on....
is Marco still standing up for rights that he feels cannot be contravened? which in actuality can be infringed upon if the govt so declares? | Your whole argument that the Government will apply the "notwithstanding" clause is moot because the Canadian government has NEVER applied the nothwithstanding clause in history because unlike the provincial government, the Federal government still seems to care about civil rights. It is only there for the most egregrious circumstances. Quote: |
i proffered it when Marco just stuck to his fairy tales
| What fairy tales?
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11-30-2010, 10:33 PM
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#309 | | Marcosexual Fan Club, CEO
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Originally Posted by zulutango They might have killed someone while racing. That's what the argument for seizure is focusing on, the fact that their actions were dangerous and might have hurt someone. Even though the truth was that no one was hurt in this situation. Other than the car owners. | That's what fines, driver point penalties, and license suspensions are for - they punish the offender. There is no reason to go after an asset in civil court, if the govt. cannot apply this across all cases. Quote: |
So if someone takes a gun and fires off a few shots that just miss hitting and killing someone, you must apply the same reasoning. If you had done so, the crown would seize your gun, so why the different opinion about cars?
| I fail to see how the analogy fits since weapons are controlled by regulations and permits. Private citizens can't freely carry or discharge firearms in Canada. A more appropriate analogy would be to seize and sell the cars of anyone caught driving intoxicated - even first time offenders. Do you have a different opinion about this?
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Last edited by Marco911; 11-30-2010 at 10:39 PM.
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12-01-2010, 12:16 AM
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#310 | | I am grateful grapefruit
Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Vancouver
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but cars are controlled by regulations and permits - you can almost say there are more laws regulating the usage of cars on the road. You need licences to drive them (which can be taken away), you must have insurance to operate them, and there are rules on how you're allowed to drive it.
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12-01-2010, 10:10 AM
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#311 | | they call me the snowman
Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: online
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Originally Posted by impulse777 but the car is being seized as proceeds of crime. | The original seizure law, which was brought in to combat the HA, was rewritten in 08' to allow them to take assets that may be used in a crime. It's the equivalent of going back in time and killing Pol Pot as a baby so he couldn't massacre a generation of Cambodians. Good in theory, but horrible in practice. Quote:
Originally Posted by zulutango So if someone takes a gun and fires off a few shots that just miss hitting and killing someone, you must apply the same reasoning. If you had done so, the crown would seize your gun, so why the different opinion about cars? | The different opinion comes from the fact that a car and a gun are two completely different objects.The centralized mass of a bullet travelling at 1200fps is a lot different than a car travelling at 220fps, equal to 200kmh. Not to mention the fact that roadways are for auto use. The last time I checked, we didn't have "bulletways", and I'm sure if we did they would be dangerous places to hang out.
The fact that our local police representative likens a car to a gun is why I would like to limit the amount of power these individual officers have. Quote:
Originally Posted by gars You need licences to drive them (which can be taken away), you must have insurance to operate them, and there are rules on how you're allowed to drive it. | On a public road, yes.
But there is nothing stopping me from buying a car to drive on my property. I wouldn't need insurance, or a license. Only if I want to use the publicly owned road system, do I need to go through the gov't processes.
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12-01-2010, 10:22 AM
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#312 | | Banned (BBM)
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Vancouver
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Originally Posted by marc0lishuz Worst penalty ever.... you gots an F430 Scuderia and you can't even drive it!! | whats the point driving it if you cant rip it
no shifting 2000rpm is not driving a ferrari
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12-01-2010, 11:41 AM
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#313 | | I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
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Originally Posted by Marco911 Your whole argument that the Government will apply the "notwithstanding" clause is moot because the Canadian government has NEVER applied the nothwithstanding clause in history because unlike the provincial government, the Federal government still seems to care about civil rights. It is only there for the most egregrious circumstances. | because they feel its political suicide if its applied but it's not like it's been applied by provinces which applies to this case you're arguing about... (which has proven to be political suicide in cases when only the threat of its use was given)
what would it matter if it hasn't been applied federally? they have the power to do so if they so wish THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT
so what you're saying is you're going to keep bitching until the federal govt. shuts you up? how bout you take this law up to the supreme court yourself if you're so passionate about it?
as for you're fairy tales your acting like you've forgotten you're history in rs  staying relatively silent for ages doesn't change that
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12-01-2010, 11:50 AM
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#314 | | they call me the snowman
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Originally Posted by StylinRed it's not like it's been applied by provinces which applies to this case you're arguing about... | really?
taken from wiki... Quote:
On March 16, 2000, the Alberta Legislature passed Bill 202, which amended the provincial Marriage Act[7] to include an opposite-sex-only definition of marriage as well as the notwithstanding clause in order to insulate the definition from Charter challenges. However, the provinces may use the "notwithstanding clause" only on legislation that they otherwise have the authority to enact, and the Supreme Court ruled in Reference re Same-Sex Marriage that the definition of marriage is within the exclusive domain of the Canadian Parliament.
Alberta once abandoned an attempt to use the notwithstanding clause to limit lawsuits against the government for past forced sterilizations
Quebec
After the Charter came into force in 1982, Quebec inserted a notwithstanding clause into all its laws; these expired in 1987, when the Quebec Liberals, having ousted the Parti Québécois, did not renew them.
However, the most notable use of the notwithstanding clause came in the Quebec language law known as Bill 101 after sections of those laws were found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court of Canada in Ford v. Quebec (A.G.). On December 21, 1989, the National Assembly of Quebec employed the "notwithstanding clause" to override freedom of expression (section 2b), and equality rights (section 15). This allowed Quebec to continue the restriction against the posting of any commercial signs in languages other than French. In 1993, after the law was criticized by the United Nations Human Rights Committee, the Bourassa government had the provincial parliament rewrite the law to conform to the Charter, and the notwithstanding clause was removed.
| Two cases out of a number listed where the provinces used the notwithstanding clause. Quote: |
so what you're saying is you're going to keep bitching until the federal govt. shuts you up? how bout you take this law up to the supreme court yourself if you're so passionate about it?
| What a stupid argument.
Especially considering that Canada isn't China, nor is it Russia. In Canada, there is due process which has been thrown to the wind in these cases. That's the point that you bleeding heart paranoids just don't get.
In Canada, the onus is not on the defendant to prove their innocence. It's up to the crown to prove guilt, so why should the Canadian individuals have to put money and time out of pocket to fight what is an egregious misuse of the law?
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12-01-2010, 12:26 PM
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#315 | | I don't like cheese but I love milk!
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Van
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| Quote: http://www.metronews.ca/vancouver/lo...ounded-ferrari
A Vancouver speed racer’s confiscated Ferrari will be sold for $235,000
The driver, a 21-year-old Vancouver native, will receive only 30 per cent of the sale revenue, with the remainder going to the car’s other part owner — who was uninvolved in the incident — and the province. | Am i misreading something here???
So.....the driver (who is not the owner), will get 30% of the proceed from the sales
the owner, will get the remainder (70%) of the proceed?
I hope I am not reading it right.....
Either way, confiscating the vehicle WHILE the driver can still keep his license and drive on the road is just plain retarded 
And where do they draw the line to confiscate the vehicle?
Does drinking&driving get your vehicle forfeited?
How about running a red light? or running a stop sign? or tailgating? what about speeding 120 in a 60 zone? or 80 in a school zone? (which i think is much worse than going 200 up seymour)
Technically all of the above are "illegal", so does that mean next time I got caught doing 55 in a 50km/h zone....my car COULD BE confiscated?
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12-01-2010, 05:34 PM
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#316 | | Marcosexual Fan Club, CEO
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: US Bush-country
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Originally Posted by originalhypa The original seizure law, which was brought in to combat the HA, was rewritten in 08' to allow them to take assets that may be used in a crime. It's the equivalent of going back in time and killing Pol Pot as a baby so he couldn't massacre a generation of Cambodians. Good in theory, but horrible in practice. | Criminals who manage to amass a significant amount of assets are not stupid. The result of this law is that they will register cars/boats/houses in their wife's, relative's gf's or bf's name.
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Poor is the man whose pleasures depend on the permission of another.
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12-01-2010, 10:40 PM
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#317 | | To me, there is the Internet and there is RS
Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Okanagan
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Originally Posted by originalhypa The different opinion comes from the fact that a car and a gun are two completely different objects.The centralized mass of a bullet travelling at 1200fps is a lot different than a car travelling at 220fps, equal to 200kmh. Not to mention the fact that roadways are for auto use. The last time I checked, we didn't have "bulletways", and I'm sure if we did they would be dangerous places to hang out.
The fact that our local police representative likens a car to a gun is why I would like to limit the amount of power these individual officers have. | Well, it's more like a car on a road, to a gun at a gun range (so, a "bulletway"). When the car is driven properly and the gun is fired downrange, everythings fine. But if you start doing 200 in a 60, or firing bullets in random directions, you can kill someone who is in what *should* be a perfectly safe area.
__________________ 1991 Toyota Celica GTFour RC // 2007 Toyota Rav4 V6 // 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee
1992 Toyota Celica GT-S ["sold"] \\ 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD [sold] \\ 2000 Jeep Cherokee [sold] \\ 1997 Honda Prelude [sold] \\ 1992 Jeep YJ [sold/crashed] \\ 1987 Mazda RX-7 [sold] \\ 1987 Toyota Celica GT-S [crushed] Quote:
Originally Posted by maksimizer half those dudes are hotter than ,my GF. | Quote:
Originally Posted by RevYouUp reading this thread is like waiting for goku to charge up a spirit bomb in dragon ball z | Quote:
Originally Posted by Good_KarMa OH thank god. I thought u had sex with my wife. :cry: | | |
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12-01-2010, 10:49 PM
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#318 | | Marcosexual Fan Club, CEO
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: US Bush-country
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Guns are controlled items. You can't just go to a store and buy one. Cops can take them away because you shouldn't have one in the first place unless you have a firearm license. You can buy / own a car without a driver's license. If you operate a vehicle illegally, you are subject to the penalites in the MVA. Using the civil forfeiture act to take away cars from citizens whose actions hurt nobody is an abuse of the act.
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Poor is the man whose pleasures depend on the permission of another.
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12-01-2010, 11:23 PM
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#319 | | OMGWTFBBQ is a common word I say everyday
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| Who the FUCK Cares?!
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12-02-2010, 12:23 AM
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#320 | | I answer every Emotion with an emoticon
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I do, it's ridiculous and I don't want my car seized.
__________________ Quote:
Originally Posted by MajinHurricane who would ban me? lol. Look at my post count. | | |
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12-02-2010, 12:56 AM
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#321 | | I *heart* Revscene.net very Muchie
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Originally Posted by Nightwalker I do, it's ridiculous and I don't want my car seized. | Then don't speed... or move to Germany!
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12-02-2010, 01:35 AM
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#322 | | 2x Variable Nockenwellen Steuerung
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You still need to obey speed rules in Germany, just certain sections of the Autobahn is okay.
I think if you want to move to a place without speed limits, try Hawaii or Idaho? Quote:
Originally Posted by jlenko Then don't speed... or move to Germany! | | |
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12-02-2010, 01:36 AM
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#323 | | I answer every Emotion with an emoticon
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Originally Posted by jlenko Then don't speed... or move to Germany! | Hey, I'm not perfect. According to this though, I don't even have to be in or near the car. The part owner of the Ferrari was penalized without being involved whatsoever.
__________________ Quote:
Originally Posted by MajinHurricane who would ban me? lol. Look at my post count. | | |
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12-02-2010, 09:42 AM
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#324 | | they call me the snowman
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Originally Posted by jlenko Then don't speed... or move to Germany! | Funny you mention Germany.
Back in the late 1930's they also unjustly seized assets from individuals prior to attempting to take over the world.
I just thought that was an interesting reference, considering that the best performance roads in the world were built by a power hungry psychopath who wanted to move troops quickly. Quote:
Originally Posted by godwin I think if you want to move to a place without speed limits, try Hawaii or Idaho? | Hawaii is damn near nazi with their speed limits. I spotted a couple of speed traps in Maui my last trip out there. That, and the impaired roadblocks they employ. 
hypa.
making it all bipartisan since 1996.  | |
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12-02-2010, 09:50 AM
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#325 | | I *heart* Revscene.net very Muchie
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Originally Posted by Nightwalker Hey, I'm not perfect. According to this though, I don't even have to be in or near the car. The part owner of the Ferrari was penalized without being involved whatsoever. | Then don't let Lead Foot Larry borrow your car.. duh!
I've been to Idaho.. there are cops all over the place, and they do have speed limits. You're probably thinking of Montana, who until 10 years ago or so didn't have daytime speed limits on I-90. (The sign said "responsible and prudent"). Now they do have enforced limits.. though the fines are pretty low, if you manage to get caught. A friend of mine had a $5 ticket in 2001 for going 40mph over the posted limit...
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Don't be the next RS.net statistic - If you drink, don't drive. You'll lose your licence, and the rest of us will laugh at you.
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