REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

sebberry · 11-25-2010, 09:37 AM

So, the snow has been falling and ICBC, Police, etc.. are all telling us to drive slowly. (No mention of leaving extra space between you and the vehicle ahead of you).

The police warn that you can be ticketed for driving too fast for conditions even if you are travelling at speeds below the posted limit.

Section 144 1(c) states:
A person must not drive a motor vehicle on a highway at a speed that is excessive relative to the road, traffic, visibility or weather conditions.

So - what exactly does an officer have to present in court to prove that you were in fact speeding too fast for the conditions?

Shorn · 11-25-2010, 10:24 AM

i guess they might give you a ticket if they deem you can't stop safely without skidding, or you are traveling fast enough to swerve in the snow? just a guess

gdoh · 11-25-2010, 10:27 AM

use common sense

SumAznGuy · 11-25-2010, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdoh

use common sense

I don't think that would hold up in court.

the_rickster · 11-25-2010, 10:42 AM

probably officer's discretion. he probably doesnt WANT to pull you over and walk back and forth between cars on the snowy, slippery, cold and dangerous roads... but he will if you are driving dangerously.

InvisibleSoul · 11-25-2010, 10:56 AM

But it's a slippery slope if it's solely based on the discretion of the officer, isn't it?

What if the person who received the ticket is a highly experienced professional rally driver? He should have a better understanding of what he can and cannot handle in the snow than the officer, right? So if he disputes the ticket, who would the judge side with?

Berzerker · 11-25-2010, 11:02 AM

It comes down to you losing control of your vehicle. If you slide to a stop at an intersection and go past the control line... your going to fast for conditions. If you turn a corner and understeer or oversteer and cause a hazard... your driving to fast for conditions. Your car might be an Imprezza on Snow's and the car beside you could be a mustang on summers and you could be going twice as fast as him in the snow but HE will get a ticked when he slides/spins/fails to stop even if he is going 10km/hr.
This also might be cause for a driving without due care and attention if your found to be driving with a vehicle that unsafe for conditions.

Again it IS officer discretion but you have to DO something to warrant the ticket ie. something unsafe in the eyes of the officer.

Berz out.

gdoh · 11-25-2010, 11:02 AM

your odds of wining in court aren't very good if the cop believes that you were driving in an unsafe manor then your most likely screwed they just want people to drive with caution and understand that you cant drive how you normally would dont put yourself in that situation were you could get a ticket and youll be fine

johny · 11-25-2010, 11:35 AM

unless you crash I don't see this ticket being given out. if you're between the lines and in control, you're not going to fast for conditions.

skidmark · 11-25-2010, 12:39 PM

The circumstances of driving must have a speed component and enough other elements to convince the JP that the vehicle was being driven at a speed above what a reasonable and prudent person would choose for the conditions present at the time of driving. If that can be related, the JP can choose to convict.

SumAznGuy · 11-25-2010, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdoh

your odds of wining in court aren't very good if the cop believes that you were driving in an unsafe manor then your most likely screwed they just want people to drive with caution and understand that you cant drive how you normally would dont put yourself in that situation were you could get a ticket and youll be fine

Is that how our legal system works? Based on heresay and what the wind blows in?

BallPeenHammer2 · 11-25-2010, 10:02 PM

So today I was going to work. I drive a small FWD coupe. i have 4 fresh snow tyres.

I clear the little bridge on fell Ave (By the Northshore automall), at about 20k, then slow down to 10K to make the right turn. My front tyres meet some ice/uneven dense snow patch, and I understeer and continue to go straight. So Am I driving too fast for conditions?

jlenko · 11-26-2010, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InvisibleSoul

What if the person who received the ticket is a highly experienced professional rally driver?

I would think a professional rally driver would respect the fact that he's on public roads, and wouldn't drive like a punk-ass kid who thinks they're a rally driver.

But that's just me..

MindBomber · 11-26-2010, 12:44 AM

I don't see any problems with this law being enforced, I wish more officers were out giving tickets for speed excessive to conditions. If your car slips a bit occasionally thats normal, but if your driving at speeds where you at risk of losing complete control, your a risk to the motorists around you.

Nightwalker · 11-26-2010, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InvisibleSoul

But it's a slippery slope

BAHAHAHA

geeknerd · 11-26-2010, 03:50 AM

when the officer is driving behind you to pull u over. just break really hard and hope that he bumps into you.

moomooCow · 11-26-2010, 05:23 AM

^ hahahah interesting idea, I suppose at that point, he can't claim that you're over driving your tires / the conditions if you're able to stop faster than he can.

the_rickster · 11-26-2010, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InvisibleSoul

What if the person who received the ticket is a highly experienced professional rally driver?

pffft, trick question. everyone knows that highly experienced rally drivers live on yachts in the winter.

InvisibleSoul · 11-26-2010, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlenko

I would think a professional rally driver would respect the fact that he's on public roads, and wouldn't drive like a punk-ass kid who thinks they're a rally driver.

But that's just me..

But the argument here is that he doesn't even need to be driving like a rally driver to get a ticket for speeding too fast for conditions.

Maybe this rally driver is fully confident that he has full control of his vehicle driving at 50kmph down the snow road, but the officer arbitrarily believes that anything above 40kmph is too fast for the conditions.

Then what?

MindBomber · 11-26-2010, 02:38 PM

I'm heading to Timmy Ho's to find a cop and ask what qualifies a driver for a speeding too fast for conditions ticket, this has me curious now.

BallPeenHammer2 · 11-27-2010, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MindBomber

I'm heading to Timmy Ho's to find a cop and ask what qualifies a driver for a speeding too fast for conditions ticket, this has me curious now.

Don't forget the BP at 3rd and Westminster in Richmond.

zulutango · 11-27-2010, 02:34 PM

"My front tyres meet some ice/uneven dense snow patch, and I understeer and continue to go straight. So Am I driving too fast for conditions? "

144 (1) A person must not drive a motor vehicle on a highway

(c) at a speed that is excessive relative to the road, traffic, visibility or weather conditions

By your own definition, you were...if you had been going slower you would not have lost control in the scenario you just described. If you had hit another vehicle or pedestrian because you were skidding and not turning would you be asking this question? The section definition is "speed relative to conditions"....not excessive speed *( plus 40 or 60 k over the limit) , speed against hwy sign, speed in a municiplaity....relative to the conditions that existed..an uneven dense snow patch, you were going so fast that you admit you lost control.

sebberry · 11-27-2010, 02:41 PM

So basically for a "speed too fast for conditions" charge to hold up, there has to be a collision or other incident where the car was going too fast to remain under control.

By the sounds of it, there is very little chance that such a charge would hold up if the officer simply handed out the ticket to a driver travelling at less than the posted speed limit in the same way he would hand out a conventional speeding ticket.

SumAznGuy · 11-27-2010, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebberry

So basically for a "speed too fast for conditions" charge to hold up, there has to be a collision or other incident where the car was going too fast to remain under control.

By the sounds of it, there is very little chance that such a charge would hold up if the officer simply handed out the ticket to a driver travelling at less than the posted speed limit in the same way he would hand out a conventional speeding ticket.

If you put it that way, a conventional speeding ticket has proof either by radar, pacing, or visual estimation by a trained officer.

In this case, a ticket for too fast for condition for someone going the speed limit can still hold in court. Driver could be paced, radar'd or visual estimates point out the driver was going the speed limit, but is too fast for conditions with conditions being snow, white out, fog, heavy rain (logically speaking)

sebberry · 11-27-2010, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

In this case, a ticket for too fast for condition for someone going the speed limit can still hold in court. Driver could be paced, radar'd or visual estimates point out the driver was going the speed limit, but is too fast for conditions with conditions being snow, white out, fog, heavy rain (logically speaking)

Right, but you're only "going too fast" if you're unable to stop, steer, or hit something due to the conditions.

To flag someone over and ticket them for speeding too fast for conditions when they're simply driving 40 in a 50 zone without proof that their actions will result in a collision.. I don't see how that can stick.