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Would our troops and the troops of our allies be put in harms way if our governments were more inclined to operate on the level? Wikileaks is just a scapegoat for governments trying to shift the blame from themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StylinRed
if you can support troops in what they do completely right/wrong then how can you say you only support wikileaks partially?
and Soundy i think you're totally missing the point... Assanges personal banking info being compared to what elected govts are doing/allowing in the name of the citizenry who voted for them???
wouldn't you want troops to go to hell too then? for murdering civilians? torturing them? pimping out children? etc etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnomes
The government does not exactly play fair too, with the harassment of wikileak supporters and the accusation of sexual harassment.
Our government is a piece of shit. I know this, you know this, most people know this. But, just because the government is a POS doesn't mean you disregard the people that serve the government.
What do the honest troops that are fighting for our country have to do with our shitty government? They take orders and they must follow those orders. If they don't, they're out of a job or worst case, thrown in jail.
This is the same as the German army. They WERE NOT the same as nazi's. A lot of people do not realize this. They were not the SS. They were just regular German soldiers caught up in a shit storm. And sure, some of the German soldiers and some of our allied soldiers are not the most ethical or moral humans, but I would like to think the majority of them are honest people just trying to protect our freedom.
Publish the stuff that leaks Obama (ie. government) going to a strip club or lying on his taxes or bribing this person or taking bribes.. that's fine. But, don't tell those effing terrorists where our safe houses are or how we conduct military warfare or our communications protocols.
Just think if your father was serving right now. Why the hell would you want to jeopardize his life?
This topic is a double edged sword. At the end of the day, I don't want my *insert family member or friend here* to die. So obviously i'm not going to support wikileaks. Just sensor the information that might kill our troops and leak everything else. I mean, why does anyone need to know the US communications protocols?
I do not support leaking information that will jeopardize our allies in any way.
I support the release of information that violates human rights like if the US army is blatantly abusing POW for no reason. But, I do support torturing enemies for vital information that will save allied lives. (Am I contradicting myself? Maybe.)
If the information that wikileaks releases in any way will hurt our allied troops i'm against it. Everything else is fair game.
I know a few people in the reserves and one person that is actually in Israel so to keep these people safe is the utmost concern.
While I agree with what you said, I totally do NOT think Assange or his staff are qualified to make these decisions.
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I get and somewhat appreciate the CONCEPT of Wikileaks... but really, Assange sounds like little more than an attention-craving idiot. Who here believes he had "freedom of information" as his motivation, and who thinks he's just looking to stir the pot and gain a bunch of notoriety?
If he really thinks there should be no secrets, then he should publish his bank records and personal ID information on the internet. He should put his bank accounts and PINs out there for the world to see. If he keeps even one hidden Swiss account, then he's a fucking hypocrite.
There is a difference between government transparency and personal privacy you idiot.
I do not support leaking information that will jeopardize our allies in any way.
I support the release of information that violates human rights like if the US army is blatantly abusing POW for no reason. But, I do support torturing enemies for vital information that will save allied lives. (Am I contradicting myself? Maybe.)
If you support torture you have no moral high ground over those individuals that commit human rights violation.
Our government is a piece of shit. I know this, you know this, most people know this. But, just because the government is a POS doesn't mean you disregard the people that serve the government.
What do the honest troops that are fighting for our country have to do with our shitty government? They take orders and they must follow those orders. If they don't, they're out of a job or worst case, thrown in jail.
This is the same as the German army. They WERE NOT the same as nazi's. A lot of people do not realize this. They were not the SS. They were just regular German soldiers caught up in a shit storm. And sure, some of the German soldiers and some of our allied soldiers are not the most ethical or moral humans, but I would like to think the majority of them are honest people just trying to protect our freedom.
Publish the stuff that leaks Obama (ie. government) going to a strip club or lying on his taxes or bribing this person or taking bribes.. that's fine. But, don't tell those effing terrorists where our safe houses are or how we conduct military warfare or our communications protocols.
Just think if your father was serving right now. Why the hell would you want to jeopardize his life?
This topic is a double edged sword. At the end of the day, I don't want my *insert family member or friend here* to die. So obviously i'm not going to support wikileaks. Just sensor the information that might kill our troops and leak everything else. I mean, why does anyone need to know the US communications protocols?
It sounds as if you believe that Wikileaks has been dumping classified documents without redaction putting lives at risk. If that were true and they have put lives at risk then I'd agree that Wikileaks should be punished for that but as far as I know nothing has surfaced.
Interview with Julian Assange after he was released on bail.
I don't think they are releasing indiscriminately. If that were the case, there would be a drop of 20k documents at a time.
They are also providing the gov'ts the chance to redact what they feel is too sensitive for release-while at gun point that they ARE going to be released if they don't.
I think the main thing to consider is there has not been a bombshell announcement. There have been revelations about inner workings on events already covered, but no "new" info is out.
I'll tell you what...show me a document that says that the Stuxnet virus was an Israeli-American project-conclusively. Then we can actually put some lives at risk and then wikileaks will actually be in some hot water. Show me who is banking in Sweden. Show me that Bank of America caused the recession-conclusively. Shit, wow me a little bit with just telling me how BoA shuffles profits through offshore accounts to lower their tax rate.
All of this is stuff we know happens, but don't have proof.
I don't think they are releasing indiscriminately. If that were the case, there would be a drop of 20k documents at a time.
They are also providing the gov'ts the chance to redact what they feel is too sensitive for release-while at gun point that they ARE going to be released if they don't.
I think the main thing to consider is there has not been a bombshell announcement. There have been revelations about inner workings on events already covered, but no "new" info is out.
I would consider the clip that showed the US military indiscriminately shooting civilians from a helicopter a bombshell. It is just that no one cares.
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and that they're prostituting children to make alliances with some scum
plus how troops are getting killed through training exercises or friendly fire but the taliban/etc get blamed for it
all the hidden civilian deaths etc etc etc
are quite the bombshell but the media has turned from reporting the news (covering these atrocities) to just pulling a smear campaign on the messenger
Our government is a piece of shit. I know this, you know this, most people know this. But, just because the government is a POS doesn't mean you disregard the people that serve the government.
What do the honest troops that are fighting for our country have to do with our shitty government? They take orders and they must follow those orders. If they don't, they're out of a job or worst case, thrown in jail.
This is the same as the German army. They WERE NOT the same as nazi's. A lot of people do not realize this. They were not the SS. They were just regular German soldiers caught up in a shit storm. And sure, some of the German soldiers and some of our allied soldiers are not the most ethical or moral humans, but I would like to think the majority of them are honest people just trying to protect our freedom.
Publish the stuff that leaks Obama (ie. government) going to a strip club or lying on his taxes or bribing this person or taking bribes.. that's fine. But, don't tell those effing terrorists where our safe houses are or how we conduct military warfare or our communications protocols.
Just think if your father was serving right now. Why the hell would you want to jeopardize his life?
This topic is a double edged sword. At the end of the day, I don't want my *insert family member or friend here* to die. So obviously i'm not going to support wikileaks. Just sensor the information that might kill our troops and leak everything else. I mean, why does anyone need to know the US communications protocols?
our gov't is a piece of shit...?
name one place with a better government than canada, GO!
What I'm curious about is how many terrorists or "enemies" have been captured or killed. It seems like the only casualties in this "war on terror" are either allied troops or innocent civilians. I'd be glad if someone could point me to some information or statistics stating otherwise.
edit: figured i'd get failed for this, lol
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What I'm curious about is how many terrorists or "enemies" have been captured or killed. It seems like the only casualties in this "war on terror" are either allied troops or innocent civilians. I'd be glad if someone could point me to some information or statistics stating otherwise.
thats because the only place you get information is media like GlobalTV and CNN and the only stories they report are bad ones. the ones that say "another allied soldier died from a roadside IED."
you've gotta be fucking retarded to think 'the bad guys' arent dying. for fuck sakes, Saddam Hussein is dead.
thats because the only place you get information is media like GlobalTV and CNN and the only stories they report are bad ones. the ones that say "another allied soldier died from a roadside IED."
you've gotta be fucking retarded to think 'the bad guys' arent dying. for fuck sakes, Saddam Hussein is dead.
watch something beyond mainstream media.
Agreed. Plenty of Al Qaeda guys for example are captured/killed regularly.
thats because the only place you get information is media like GlobalTV and CNN and the only stories they report are bad ones. the ones that say "another allied soldier died from a roadside IED."
you've gotta be fucking retarded to think 'the bad guys' arent dying. for fuck sakes, Saddam Hussein is dead.
watch something beyond mainstream media.
I'm just saying statistics would be nice.
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I'm so stance my roof rack got a roof rack
thats because the only place you get information is media like GlobalTV and CNN and the only stories they report are bad ones. the ones that say "another allied soldier died from a roadside IED."
you've gotta be fucking retarded to think 'the bad guys' arent dying. for fuck sakes, Saddam Hussein is dead.
watch something beyond mainstream media.
regardless, if the numbers of "good guys" isn't bigger than the bad, the ratios are fucked. There was a report detailing the number of american soldiers who died simply from friendly fire and it's in the thousands - totally pathetic. The actual rates, i think are about 40% higher than they were in World War 2 - it makes no sense!
What I'm curious about is how many terrorists or "enemies" have been captured or killed. It seems like the only casualties in this "war on terror" are either allied troops or innocent civilians. I'd be glad if someone could point me to some information or statistics stating otherwise.
edit: figured i'd get failed for this, lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkrussian
regardless, if the numbers of "good guys" isn't bigger than the bad, the ratios are fucked. There was a report detailing the number of american soldiers who died simply from friendly fire and it's in the thousands - totally pathetic. The actual rates, i think are about 40% higher than they were in World War 2 - it makes no sense!
ok since i guess its easier to just post on revscene instead of actually clicking google and typing "afghanistan enemy casualties", i guess you have to let someone else do it for you.
so i did. and one of the first links i came up with was this one
if any of you want wikileaks to give out more sensitive information that could endanger more canadian soldiers and add more names of real people to that list, you should be sent over there too.
if any of you want wikileaks to give out more sensitive information that could endanger more canadian soldiers and add more names of real people to that list, you should be sent over there too.
Except they haven't released any sensitive information that could endanger Canadian soldiers.
Quote:
"The initial assessment in no way discounts the risk to national security," Gates wrote. "However, the review to date has not revealed any sensitive intelligence sources and methods compromised by the disclosure."
ok since i guess its easier to just post on revscene instead of actually clicking google and typing "afghanistan enemy casualties", i guess you have to let someone else do it for you.
since it's also easier to assume rather than read what i wrote before quoting me for some reason, i will paste again exactly what i wrote:
Quote:
regardless, if the numbers of "good guys" isn't bigger than the bad, the ratios are fucked.
so let's look at your link:
"bad guys" to "good guys" killed: 15219 : 3994 --> roughly 4:1
"bad guys" to "good guys" injured: 1824: 9044 --> roughly 1:5
therefore, for every 4 enemies killed, 1 innocent person is as well. For every 1 enemy injured, 5 innocents are injured.
But what I was really saying was that the amount of friendly fire u.s deaths right now is staggering, and way higher than in previous wars, despite better training and equipment - your numbers don't show this. Moreover, many of these deaths are covered up and denied - often miscategorized as an "enemy death" to improve the stats. this is a fact. Do one of your google searches for "US friendly fire casualties" and you'll see a stack of articles and blogs from various media outlets regarding the issue. For a concrete example, google the Pat Tillman story.
Last edited by drunkrussian; 01-18-2011 at 12:58 PM.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
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That is what has been going on, government regulating itself.
