gout

[ForbiddenX]

I really don't want to be on the lifetime pills so I've been changing my diet a lot. I was going to eat healthier either way but this gout kind of forced me to lol.

Going to start going to the gym more often as well once this passes, right now it's still pretty painful when I put pressure on the toe but feels like it's not going to soon.

Do you have any pork at all?

[Cman333]

I have severe gout. Got it when I was 20. I was a severe party animal and dined out at steak houses frequently. Comes back almost once or twice a year for me. Sometimes more. Gout is permanent. It doesn't just heal and never come back.

You have to adjust your diet bigtime. Basically need to avoid a ton of food (most proteins, heavy dairy, alcohol, certain veggies, white carbs, etc), dont eat/drink in excess, need regular exercise, drink lots of water, etc etc.

Once you get a flare up you're basically doomed. All you can do is numb the pain with Advil or Prescribed drugs. Nothing instantly heals it or cures it. All you can do is take the proper steps to prevent it.

Black Cherry Extract is a common preventative pill you can take. You basically need to eat one or two pills after each major meal. It's helps by neutralizing the uric acid levels in your system. All food have Purines (some more than others), Purines turns into uric acid in your body, and uric acid then leads to gout. It's not contagious, it's just something you develop over time or have it passed down genetically.

[Cman333]

Oh, I still eat and drink quite a bit (hence one or two flareups a year now, but alot less than before).

Just eat meats in moderation. Red meat especially. I tend to focus more on chicken and fish. It's usually when I start having my beef/pork cravings I'm doomed. Alcohol I won't cut, I'd rather cut red meat lol

Dark berries are VERY good for preventing gout. (strawberries, blackberries, cherries, etc).

Anyways, good luck. Gout gets more painful and frequent if you don't adjust your lifestyle. Drink lots of water to help piss out all the toxins (uric acid).

Black cherry pills can be bought as Alive Health Store (cheapest place I've found it, buy 6 get one bottle free. $20/bottle).

[ForbiddenX]

How far apart are the flare ups usually? I'm going to grab a few of those Black cherry pills bottles and see if they help.

[Cman333]

I get it like every few months. Just a little bit of pain and I just go nuts on advil and cherry pills. And it goes away.

I get severe flare ups usually once or twice a year. Basically SUPER painful and can't move.

I need to cut the alcohol, and adjust my diet more. I already basically cut red meat, I might have a small steak once every 6 months. I have a tendency to forget the pills after every meal though. lol

Good luck. Don't let it get worse like mine.

[Jackygor]

Lose weight and do preventative measures (Like diet and exercise). I also find hot yoga to help. Gout also comes back for me when I am catch a flu or something like that. I find that the causes of flare ups are different for everyone. For me, it is broccoli, tomato sauce, stress and lack of sleep. Consuming a large amount of red meat and alcohol will cause flares, but I have adjusted my diet enough that I don't eat that quantity anymore. Don't let it get worst or else it is just a world a pain. Try building a healthy relationship with it, I mean, you will have it for as long as you live.

[Hondaracer]

Is gout visible?

Last Friday I kind of stepped down puting my work boot on and felt pain in my little toe, fast forward later that day and it showed a bruise

Then later on in the weekend it looked like the nuckles along the other toes were bruised as well and I don't recall doing anything to cause it

It's now Tuesday and the pain is still there at about 20% of what it was? I'm assuming just bruised them but it's weird it lasted this long over seemingly nothing
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[originalhypa]

My knee will be bright red during an attack, and also hot to the touch.
Gout pain isn't actually caused by the purine crystals. Instead, it's caused by your immune system's reaction to those crystals. That's why gout isn't always sore. It flares up when the body decides that it's had enough, and fights to break down the crystals. The minor pains one feels after a gout attack are caused by the body repairing the holes and voids left by the purine crystals.

[finbar]

Well shit! after ~15 years the horrible gout returned.


I've been reading about altering the blood pH to better dissolve and hold in solution the uric acid.
Baking soda seems to help along with the usual dietary/lifestyle steps.

Caveat:
Baking soda dumps a lot of sodium into your body.
Consult your doctor before going that route.

[Acura604]

^^I tried everything. basically now i'm on the meds. it seems to be working now for 6months although I don't eat crap anymore either.

[Cman333]

Yup. I've tried it all too.

I basically just changed my diet (More chicken + veggies), double dose on cherry pills and drink lots of water.

More you piss the better. Dilute the uric acid and get it out your system.

[originalhypa]

I've been pushing my luck lately with beef and beer.
Doing a lot of training for my hockey season, which has led to a desire for red meat. So it started with a burger a few months ago. Then steak, then sausage, until I was eating beef 3 times a week again. As for beer, what goes down better than a cold brew after a hard game?

Fast forward to wednesday night. We were hosting a family bbq, and I ate well. Had a half dozen pints, and at least 12 oz's of beef and sausage.

Thursday at 6am, my knee starts throbbing to the point where I wake up. I remember the last time this happened..... I go into panic mode. 1.5L of lemon water downed in minutes, along with 800mg of Ibuprofin. I applied an ice pack to the area and basically waited to see if it was going to be a full blown case of gout, or a false alarm. It ended up going away around 10am, after another 2L of lemon water.

Needless to say, I've gone pretty much sober vegan again. At least for the next little while. Gout is a buildup of uric acid which in turn creates the purine crystals that plague us. The good thing is that not one incident is going to turn us. It takes a series of "overdoses" on purines before we are hit with an attack. That said, if you're on the edge, all it takes is a night of debauchery to set it off.

I can't wait for cherry season.

[mos_skeeto]

Just curious if anyone has this issue. I told a doctor once and he just chuckled but I find that all my joins crack too often. Everybody has joints that crack but if I sit and watch a tv show, by the next commercial break (~15 mins) my joints start to crack just with regular motion. Everything from my wrist, elbows and legs without really trying. Minor issue but I wonder if it has anything to do with that crystal stuff in the joints.

[ForbiddenX]

Not 100% sure if it has anything to do with the crystals. My joints tend to crack and I've always cracked my knuckles since a kid. I think it could lead to different kinds of arthritis though.

Update from my first gout attack - the pain lingered for about 3-4 weeks after the initial attack. Not as severe but there was always this discomfort on my big toe. Changed my diet a lot and have rarely eaten steaks stuck to chicken and a little pork and so far so good. I do have an occasional bite of beef but that's about it.

Drinking a lot of water too nowadays and trying to always take those cherry pills.

When I look back at it before my attack, I felt like I was going to the washroom A LOT even without drinking a lot of water. I was thinking maybe this is a sign of the body trying to get rid of as much uric acid as possible?

[ForbiddenX]

Well... having another gout attack.

For those who have had multiple gout attacks, are the ones after the first one less severe? My foot's been hurting since yesterday but I can't tell if it's the calm before the storm or if it's an actual attack.

I remember the first one, I felt some discomfort the first day but when I woke up the next day it hurt a lot. It hurt yesterday but then now it's just hurting a bit more but not a lot more.

[CorneringArtist]

First time I've been prescribed the strong anti-inflammatories for gout. I've had it off and on for the last few years, but managed to just ride out the pain. Now it's at the point where it felt like I sprained my ankle, and had to see a doctor for it. Now I'm in for uric acid blood testing and screening for other things just in case.

[Skittlez160]

Wow I didn't know such thread existed.

I first got a gout flare back in 2006 but at that point it wasn't treated nor confirmed. From then on I kept getting flares as often as once a month. My worst one last 2-3 weeks and within that time I couldn't walk for 4-6 days. Even walking to the washroom was a challenge.

Eventually I was put on Allopurinol to lower my uric acid levels and Indo Methacin to control the pain and swelling (in the event of a flare). Like most of you, I adjusted my diet but can still work on it to be better.

I was good for a long time, no flares. In the past year I've had maybe 3-4 minor flares that would last 2-5 days tops. That's when I would drink even more water than I normally do and fly high on my anti inflamatories lol

Lately I started drinking 100% black cherry juice, but I'll definitely look into those pills as an alternative. Unlike CMan, I cut down heavily on my beer drinking but I love my steaks lol. It's different for everyone but the lack of beer totally helped me.
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[originalhypa]

^
welcome to the thread.

Originally Posted by ForbiddenX

Well... having another gout attack.

For those who have had multiple gout attacks, are the ones after the first one less severe? My foot's been hurting since yesterday but I can't tell if it's the calm before the storm or if it's an actual attack.

I remember the first one, I felt some discomfort the first day but when I woke up the next day it hurt a lot. It hurt yesterday but then now it's just hurting a bit more but not a lot more.

You have to determine if it's a full blown attack you're getting, or what I call an aftershock. After my first attack, my knee was sore for months. As the doc put it, "your body is trying to fix the damage left by the purine crystals". There are holes where the crystals used to be, and that is going to hurt as the body attempts to fix them.

I get minor attacks every half a year. It's usually caused by my own choices, and can easily be reversed by drinking water, cherry juice, pineapple, etc.

[CorneringArtist]

I think I have to lay off the Indomethacin as the swelling is gone. My ankle is still sore, and I think Hypa summed up why it still hurts a week after the brunt of the pain disappeared. Although, keeping active despite the hurt when I put weight on it does help a bit, maybe it's just adrenaline numbing the pain lol.

[originalhypa]

If you are able to manage it without the drugs, you're better off in the long run. The pills do have side effects, and frankly, they are simply a band aid. They don't fix the underlying problem, which is too much protein/booze/lethargy.

During my attack, I had no gout drugs. Only T3 and pot brownies (it was totally medicinal ).

Srsly tho, I did a lot of reading during that time and came across this. It was written by Ben Franklin back in 1780. Big Ben was known for his writing, and this piece gave me some laughs as I was nursing the knee.

Dialogue Between Franklin and the Gout

Benjamin Franklin (1706–1790)

Midnight, 22 October, 1780.


FRANKLIN. Eh! Oh! eh! What have I done to merit these cruel sufferings?

GOUT. Many things; you have ate and drank too freely, and too much indulged those legs of yours in their indolence. 2

FRANKLIN. Who is it that accuses me? 3

GOUT. It is I, even I, the Gout. 4

FRANKLIN. What! my enemy in person? 5

GOUT. No, not your enemy. 6

FRANKLIN. I repeat it, my enemy; for you would not only torment my body
to death, but ruin my good name; you reproach me as a glutton and a tippler; now all the world, that knows me, will allow that I am neither the one nor the other. 7

GOUT. The world may think as it pleases; it is always very complaisant to itself, and sometimes to its friends; but I very well know that the quantity of meat and drink proper for a man, who takes a reasonable degree of exercise, would be too much for another, who never takes any. 8

FRANKLIN. I take—eh! oh!—as much exercise—eh!—as I can, Madam Gout. You know my sedentary state, and on that account, it would seem, Madam Gout, as if you might spare me a little, seeing it is not altogether my own fault. 9

GOUT.in life is a sedentary one, your amusements, your recreation, at least, should be active. You ought to walk or ride; or, if the weather prevents that, play at billiards. But let us examine your course of life. While the mornings are long, and you have leisure to go abroad, what do you do? Why, instead of gaining an appetite for breakfast, by salutary exercise, you amuse yourself with books, pamphlets, or newspapers, which commonly are not worth the reading. Yet you eat an inordinate breakfast, four dishes of tea, with cream, and one or two buttered toasts, with slices of hung beef, which I fancy are not things the most easily digested. Immediately afterwards you sit down to write at your desk, or converse with persons who apply to you on business. Thus the time passes till one, without any kind of bodily exercise. But all this I could pardon, in regard, as you say, to your sedentary condition. But what is your practice after dinner? Walking in the beautiful gardens of those friends with whom you have dined would be the choice of men of sense; yours is to be fixed down to chess, where you are found engaged for two or three hours! This is your perpetual recreation, which is the least eligible of any for a sedentary man, because, instead of accelerating the motion of the fluids, the rigid attention it requires helps to retard the circulation and obstruct internal secretions. Wrapt in the speculations of this wretched game, you destroy your constitution. What can be expected from such a course of living, but a body replete with stagnant humors, ready to fall prey to all kinds of dangerous maladies, if I, the Gout, did not occasionally bring you relief by agitating those humors, and so purifying or dissipating them? If it was in some nook or alley in Paris, deprived of walks, that you played awhile at chess after dinner, this might be excusable; but the same taste prevails with you in Passy, Auteuil, Montmartre, or Sanoy, places where there are the finest gardens and walks, a pure air, beautiful women, and most agreeable and instructive conversation; all which you might enjoy by frequenting the walks. But these are rejected for this abominable game of chess. Fie, then, Mr. Franklin! But amidst my instructions, I had almost forgot to administer my wholesome corrections; so take that twinge,—and that. 10

FRANKLIN. Oh! eh! oh! Ohhh! As much instruction as you please, Madam Gout, and as many reproaches; but pray, Madam, a truce with your corrections! 11

GOUT. No, Sir, no,—I will not abate a particle of what is so much for your good,—therefore— 12

FRANKLIN. Oh! ehhh!—It is not fair to say I take no exercise, when I do very often, going out to dine and returning in my carriage. 13

GOUT. That, of all imaginable exercises, is the most slight and insignificant, if you allude to the motion of a carriage suspended on springs. By observing the degree of heat obtained by different kinds of motion, we may form an estimate of the quantity of exercise given by each. Thus, for example, if you turn out to walk in winter with cold feet, in an hour’s time you will be in a glow all over; ride on horseback, the same effect will scarcely be perceived by four hours’ round trotting; but if you loll in a carriage, such as you have mentioned, you may travel all day and gladly enter the last inn to warm your feet by a fire. Flatter yourself then no longer, that half an hour’s airing in your carriage deserves the name of exercise. Providence has appointed few to roll in carriages, while he has given to all a pair of legs, which are machines infinitely more commodious and serviceable. Be grateful, then, and make a proper use of yours. Would you know how they forward the circulation of your fluids, in the very action of transporting you from place to place; observe when you walk, that all your weight is alternately thrown from one leg to the other; this occasions a great pressure on the vessels of the foot, and repels their contents; when relieved, by the weight being thrown on the other foot, the vessels of the first are allowed to replenish, and, by a return of this weight, this repulsion again succeeds; thus accelerating the circulation of the blood. The heat produced in any given time depends on the degree of this acceleration; the fluids are shaken, the humors attenuated, the secretions facilitated, and all goes well; the cheeks are ruddy, and health is established. Behold your fair friend at Auteuil; a lady who received from bounteous nature more really useful science than half a dozen such pretenders to philosophy as you have been able to extract from all your books. When she honors you with a visit, it is on foot. She walks all hours of the day, and leaves indolence, and its concomitant maladies, to be endured by her horses. In this, see at once the preservative of her health and personal charms. But when you go to Auteuil, you must have your carriage, though it is no farther from Passy to Auteuil than from Auteuil to Passy. 14

FRANKLIN. Your reasonings grow very tiresome. 15

GOUT. I stand corrected. I will be silent and continue my office; take that, and that. 16

FRANKLIN. Oh! Ohh! Talk on, I pray you. 17

GOUT. No, no; I have a good number of twinges for you to-night, and you may be sure of some more tomorrow. 18

FRANKLIN. What, with such a fever! I shall go distracted. Oh! eh! Can no one bear it for me? 19

GOUT. Ask that of your horses; they have served you faithfully. 20

FRANKLIN. How can you so cruelly sport with my torments 21

GOUT. Sport! I am very serious. I have here a list of offenses against your own health distinctly written, and can justify every stroke inflicted on you. 22

FRANKLIN. Read it then. 23

GOUT. It is too long a detail; but I will briefly mention some particulars. 24

FRANKLIN. Proceed. I am all attention. 25

GOUT. Do you remember how often you have promised yourself, the following morning, a walk in the grove of Boulogne, in the garden de la Muette, or in your own garden, and have violated your promise, alleging, at one time, it was too cold, at another too warm, too windy, too moist, or what else you pleased; when in truth it was too nothing, but your insuperable love of ease? 26

FRANKLIN. That I confess may have happened occasionally, probably ten times in a year. 27

GOUT. Your confession is very far short of the truth; the gross amount is one hundred and ninety-nine times. 28

FRANKLIN. Is it possible? 29

GOUT. So possible, that it is fact; you may rely on the accuracy of my statement. You know M. Brillon’s gardens, and what fine walks they contain; you know the handsome flight of an hundred steps, which lead from the terrace above to the lawn below. You have been in the practice of visiting this amiable family twice a week, after dinner, and it is a maxim of your own, that “a man may take as much exercise in walking a mile, up and down stairs, as in ten on level ground.” What an opportunity was here for you to have had exercise in both these ways! Did you embrace it, and how often? 30

FRANKLIN. I cannot immediately answer that question. 31

GOUT. I will do it for you; not once. 32

FRANKLIN. Not once? 33

GOUT. Even so. During the summer you went there at six o’ clock. You found the charming lady, with her lovely children and friends, eager to walk with you, and entertain you with their agreeable conversation; and what has been your choice? Why, to sit on the terrace, satisfy yourself with the fine prospect, and passing your eye over the beauties of the garden below, without taking one step to descend and walk about in them. On the contrary, you call for tea and the chess-board; and lo! you are occupied in your seat till nine o’clock, and that besides two hours’ play after dinner; and then, instead of walking home, which would have bestirred you a little, you step into your carriage. How absurd to suppose that all this carelessness can be reconcilable with health, without my interposition! 34

FRANKLIN. I am convinced now of the justness of Poor Richard’s remark, that “Our debts and our sins are always greater than we think for.” 35

GOUT. So it is. You philosophers are sages in your maxims, and fools in your conduct. 36

FRANKLIN. But do you charge among my crimes, that I return in a carriage from M. Brillon’s? 37

GOUT. Certainly; for, having been seated all the while, you cannot object the fatigue of the day, and cannot want therefore the relief of a carriage. 38

FRANKLIN. What then would you have me do with my carriage? 39

GOUT. Burn it if you choose; you would at least get heat out of it once in this way; or, if you dislike that proposal, here’s another for you; observe the poor peasants, who work in the vineyards and grounds about the villages of Passy, Auteuil, Chaillot, etc.; you may find every day among these deserving creatures, four or five old men and women, bent and perhaps crippled by weight of years, and too long and too great labor. After a most fatiguing day, these people have to trudge a mile or two to their smoky huts. Order your coachman to set them down. This is an act that will be good for your soul; and, at the same time, after your visit to the Brillons, if you return on foot, that will be good for your body. 40

FRANKLIN. Ah! how tiresome you are! 41

GOUT. Well, then, to my office; it should not be forgotten that I am your physician. There. 42

FRANKLIN. Ohhh! what a devil of a physician! 43

GOUT. How ungrateful you are to say so! Is it not I who, in the character of your physician, have saved you from the palsy, dropsy, and apoplexy? one or other of which would have done for you long ago, but for me. 44

FRANKLIN. I submit, and thank you for the past, but entreat the discontinuance of your visits for the future; for, in my mind, one had better die than be cured so dolefully. Permit me just to hint, that I have also not been unfriendly to you. I never feed physician or quack of any kind, to enter the list against you; if then you do not leave me to my repose, it may be said you are ungrateful too. 45

GOUT. I can scarcely acknowledge that as any objection. As to quacks, I despise them; they may kill you indeed, but cannot injure me. And, as to regular physicians, they are at last convinced that the gout, in such a subject as you are, is no disease, but a remedy; and wherefore cure a remedy?—but to our business,—there. 46

FRANKLIN. Oh! oh!—for Heaven’s sake leave me! and I promise faithfully never more to play at chess, but to take exercise daily, and live temperately. 47

GOUT. I know you too well. You promise fair; but, after a few months of good health, you will return to your old habits; your fine promises will be forgotten like the forms of the last year’s clouds. Let us then finish the account, and I will go. But I leave you with an assurance of visiting you again at a proper time and place; for my object is your good, and you are sensible now that I am your real friend.

Many will TL/DR, but those who do may begin to look at their syndrome a little differently.

[ForbiddenX]

Anyone have gout on BOTH feet? I started to feel some discomfort on my left foot this weekend and kind of felt similar to gout but I wasn't really sure. It wasn't as severe as the first time I had it on my right foot, I was still able to walk a bit (but not so much) and put a little pressure on the foot.

The next few days though at night and going to bed the area where my leg connects with my foot hurt so much. It was pulsating and just really really painful, I couldn't even sleep cause of the pain. The toe area hurt as well but it wasn't where the pain at night was. This kept me thinking that it wasn't gout and was something else.

Has anyone else felt that kind of pain in the ankle area but your gout is on the toe? It only ever happens at night. I went to the doctor today and he did say that it is probably gout, and prescribed some meds to take over the next few days. He couldn't tell me what was causing the pain in the ankle area though.

[originalhypa]

If it's gout, you will know.
we're talking an 8-9/10 for pain. Throbbing, hot burning, pain for days. I can't walk when my gout kicks in. I'm forced to use crutches and an ass ton of painkillers.

You can get a blood test that tells you your uric acid levels. But the only way to truly know if you have gout is to get a big ass needle inserted into the area so they can look for the crystals in your synovial fluid.

Sick.

[ForbiddenX]

I guess the pain is similar to what I felt during the follow up attacks after my first one. I just don't know what this pain is in that ankle area. The pain is just unbearable at night and I cant walk either but not because of the toe.

The doc prescribed Indomethacin this time around but I also have some left over naproxen from my previous attacks.

I hope it never ever has to come to that. I don't want a needle stuck where all that pain is. No. no. no.

[originalhypa]

My doc said the same thing about the needle. Why take the chance of introducing something into the area when the evidence all pointed to gout? Family history, high uric acid, red/warm area of pain, and the intensity of pain are enough to know what you're dealing with.

While it's rare, I've read of people who have it in multiple areas in their body. It's called Polyarticular Gout, and I truly feel for you if you have it.

How long has it been since your last attack?

[ForbiddenX]

My last attack was about a year ago now. I've been pretty good with my diet but I guess I might've out did myself when drinking a little bit more beer and more red meat than usual

I was really really hoping it wasn't gout especially since it was on my left foot instead of my right foot. But like you said all evidence did point to gout again. It's still been painful especially at night but not where the pain is during the day. Only been on the meds for 2 days though.