| Vancouver Auto Chat 2016 VAC Community Head Moderator: Raid3n |
 | | 
02-28-2011, 12:54 PM
|
#1 | | I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: ...
Posts: 20,300
Thanked 4,525 Times in 1,357 Posts
Failed 4,505 Times in 971 Posts
| why are recent F1 machine's nose sticking up?
*edit* what I meant was how the machine's nose facing up, not down like older ones.
Is this because of regulations? or is it actually more efficient?
Here are pics of newer F1 machiens..  
and here are some older F1 machines..    | 
|  | |
02-28-2011, 01:01 PM
|
#2 | | Ricer Mod
Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Smithers
Posts: 7,008
Thanked 5,276 Times in 1,501 Posts
Failed 214 Times in 74 Posts
|
It's all about creating downforce. They didn't have wind tunnels and computer tech like they do now so any changes you see now are a direct result of high speed camera's and lots of wind tunnel testing. You can be damn sure they have done anything that doesn't increase the efficiency of the car. Downforce is created in 2 ways. With manually directing air over the wings and fuselage of the car and speeding the air up under the car as much as possible. I can't remember how fast an F1 car has to be traveling to actually be able to drive inverted but it's not that fast. The downforce created can actually support the car driving upside down at xxx speed.
Berz out.
__________________
President of RS Beat Down Crew
| |
| | |
02-28-2011, 01:10 PM
|
#3 | | Da Vinci's real masterpiece: The Mona Diesel
Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Richmond
Posts: 1,797
Thanked 563 Times in 247 Posts
Failed 15 Times in 15 Posts
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Berzerker  It's all about creating downforce. They didn't have wind tunnels and computer tech like they do now so any changes you see now are a direct result of high speed camera's and lots of wind tunnel testing. You can be damn sure they have done anything that doesn't increase the efficiency of the car. Downforce is created in 2 ways. With manually directing air over the wings and fuselage of the car and speeding the air up under the car as much as possible. I can't remember how fast an F1 car has to be traveling to actually be able to drive inverted but it's not that fast. The downforce created can actually support the car driving upside down at xxx speed.
Berz out. | Yup, all about aero-dynamics now rather than engine tech now and days (especially with the HP restrictions).
| |
| | |
02-28-2011, 02:00 PM
|
#4 | | I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: ...
Posts: 20,300
Thanked 4,525 Times in 1,357 Posts
Failed 4,505 Times in 971 Posts
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Berzerker It's all about creating downforce. They didn't have wind tunnels and computer tech like they do now so any changes you see now are a direct result of high speed camera's and lots of wind tunnel testing. You can be damn sure they have done anything that doesn't increase the efficiency of the car. Downforce is created in 2 ways. With manually directing air over the wings and fuselage of the car and speeding the air up under the car as much as possible. I can't remember how fast an F1 car has to be traveling to actually be able to drive inverted but it's not that fast. The downforce created can actually support the car driving upside down at xxx speed.
Berz out. | last time I checked F1 cars create 3t of downforce at 300km/h...and the car weighs 600kg including the driver..
| |
| | |
02-28-2011, 02:07 PM
|
#5 | | Ricer Mod
Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Smithers
Posts: 7,008
Thanked 5,276 Times in 1,501 Posts
Failed 214 Times in 74 Posts
|
Yea that's what I mean they don't have to be going very fast to have enough downforce to be able to drive inverted 
Berz out.
__________________
President of RS Beat Down Crew
| |
| | |
02-28-2011, 02:51 PM
|
#6 | | OMGWTFBBQ is a common word I say everyday
Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Coquitlam
Posts: 5,324
Thanked 3,782 Times in 1,242 Posts
Failed 533 Times in 187 Posts
|
It's flying into the ground the entire way around the track.
__________________
'16 Ram 1500
| |
| | |
02-28-2011, 03:05 PM
|
#7 | | RS has made me the bitter person i am today!
Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Guadalajara
Posts: 4,763
Thanked 5,613 Times in 1,255 Posts
Failed 1,578 Times in 359 Posts
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Timpo last time I checked F1 cars create 3t of downforce at 300km/h...and the car weighs 600kg including the driver.. | what if the driver is fat  | |
| | |
02-28-2011, 03:06 PM
|
#8 | | Willing to sell a family member for a few minutes on RS
Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Richmond
Posts: 13,420
Thanked 1,421 Times in 273 Posts
Failed 110 Times in 37 Posts
|
What are you talking about? F1 noses use to point straight (up) and then it curved down 
__________________
Acura Integra Type R 00-1004 - It's back
223whp 161ft tq 2.0L ITR My Feedback | |
| | |
02-28-2011, 04:07 PM
|
#9 | | Need to Seek Professional Help
Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 604
Posts: 1,049
Thanked 160 Times in 80 Posts
Failed 84 Times in 14 Posts
|
Short answer, it's driven by aero considerations. Aero absolutely dominates in modern F1.
Result of a quick google search for more info: http://www.f1technical.net/articles/11 | |
| | |
02-28-2011, 05:52 PM
|
#10 | | Banned (ABWS)
Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Delta
Posts: 864
Thanked 47 Times in 36 Posts
Failed 125 Times in 40 Posts
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Berzerker It's all about creating downforce. They didn't have wind tunnels and computer tech like they do now so any changes you see now are a direct result of high speed camera's and lots of wind tunnel testing. You can be damn sure they have done anything that doesn't increase the efficiency of the car. Downforce is created in 2 ways. With manually directing air over the wings and fuselage of the car and speeding the air up under the car as much as possible. I can't remember how fast an F1 car has to be traveling to actually be able to drive inverted but it's not that fast. The downforce created can actually support the car driving upside down at xxx speed.
Berz out. | problem is too much downforce = flipping of the car.
yes, my dynamics teacher went over this today in lecture.
| |
| | |
02-28-2011, 05:52 PM
|
#11 | | Banned (ABWS)
Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Delta
Posts: 864
Thanked 47 Times in 36 Posts
Failed 125 Times in 40 Posts
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Soltaaa what if the driver is fat | then hes not a pro f1 driver.
| |
| | |
02-28-2011, 06:10 PM
|
#12 | | RS.net, where our google ads make absolutely no sense!
Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Tokyo/Vancouver
Posts: 978
Thanked 126 Times in 59 Posts
Failed 6 Times in 4 Posts
|
to maximize airflow to the front wing and underneath the car and around the sidepods http://www.scarbsf1.com/keels/formula_1_keels.htm | |
| | |
02-28-2011, 07:16 PM
|
#13 | | racing & tech mod.
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Vancouver
Posts: 4,034
Thanked 507 Times in 188 Posts
Failed 22 Times in 12 Posts
| Quote:
Originally Posted by baggdis300 problem is too much downforce = flipping of the car.
yes, my dynamics teacher went over this today in lecture. | "Too much downforce" will never flip a car. Too much downforce on the rear only, may possibly cause the nose to rise. The bigger problem is the flat bottom of the car while it's cresting sharp hilltop. (ie: GT1 cars at LeMans)
| |
| | |
02-28-2011, 07:18 PM
|
#14 | | I *heart* Revscene.net very Muchie
Join Date: May 2001 Location: Vancouver
Posts: 3,922
Thanked 304 Times in 155 Posts
Failed 116 Times in 29 Posts
|
Front wings are limited to a maximum width. Originally, a conventional design saw the wing extending out of either side of the nose. Then a clever engineer realized that the rules did not prohibit using the space under the nose to create downforce. This resulted in the "nose up" look and generated more downforce from a given width.
As other have said the designs keep getting refined to enhance downforce and facilitate air flow both under and around the car.
| |
| | |
03-01-2011, 02:44 AM
|
#15 | | 2x Variable Nockenwellen Steuerung
Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: N49.2 W122.1
Posts: 6,176
Thanked 1,174 Times in 704 Posts
Failed 67 Times in 51 Posts
|
Actually a higher nose decreases down force on the front, since it pushes less air.
The high nose is due to regulation to reduce down force. It was done in order to make the race more "interesting". The rule is the nose must have a flat profile and cannot produce downforce. Quote:
Originally Posted by Berzerker It's all about creating downforce. They didn't have wind tunnels and computer tech like they do now so any changes you see now are a direct result of high speed camera's and lots of wind tunnel testing. You can be damn sure they have done anything that doesn't increase the efficiency of the car. Downforce is created in 2 ways. With manually directing air over the wings and fuselage of the car and speeding the air up under the car as much as possible. I can't remember how fast an F1 car has to be traveling to actually be able to drive inverted but it's not that fast. The downforce created can actually support the car driving upside down at xxx speed.
Berz out. | | |
| | |
03-01-2011, 02:46 AM
|
#16 | | I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: home
Posts: 2,830
Thanked 3,845 Times in 881 Posts
Failed 1,600 Times in 375 Posts
|
Wow... another car thread on rs created by timbo
| |
| | |
03-01-2011, 09:05 AM
|
#17 | | My name is PJ and I like dogs.
Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Vancity/Toronto
Posts: 3,180
Thanked 1,683 Times in 532 Posts
Failed 26 Times in 20 Posts
| Quote:
Originally Posted by EmperorIS Wow... another car thread on rs created by timbo | What other kind of thread would be in Auto Chat..
__________________ Studies show 100% of people die.. Might as well have some fun.
Hello my name is PJ. Buy/Sell Feedback 1-0-0 | |
| | |
03-01-2011, 09:59 AM
|
#18 | | Banned (ABWS)
Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kits/Richmond
Posts: 4,409
Thanked 1,105 Times in 540 Posts
Failed 555 Times in 222 Posts
| Quote:
Originally Posted by ncrx | This.
Think about it logically: more front wing area == more downforce
| |
| | |
03-01-2011, 10:10 AM
|
#19 | | they call me the snowman
Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: online
Posts: 19,749
Thanked 3,993 Times in 1,374 Posts
Failed 187 Times in 91 Posts
|
^
but also more drag. The key isn't to just create downforce, but to limit the amount of drag said downforce creates.
It's amazing the amount of science and technology the F1 scene uses nowadays. These cars are pretty close to being jet fighters on wheels!
| |
| | |
03-01-2011, 12:53 PM
|
#20 | | racing & tech mod.
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Vancouver
Posts: 4,034
Thanked 507 Times in 188 Posts
Failed 22 Times in 12 Posts
|
The wings aren't the only part of the car to create downforce. The whole body of the car, including the wings and diffuser, manipulate airflow to create downforce.
Take a cross section of an airplane wing: 
Look at drawing #1. Now turn it upside down, and add little race car wings to the front and back and some wheels. It looks kinda like a modern race car, with it's upturned nose and huge rear diffuser.
| |
| | |
03-02-2011, 08:45 PM
|
#21 | | To me, there is the Internet and there is RS
Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Delta
Posts: 15,911
Thanked 765 Times in 228 Posts
Failed 354 Times in 58 Posts
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Sandor "Too much downforce" will never flip a car. Too much downforce on the rear only, may possibly cause the nose to rise. The bigger problem is the flat bottom of the car while it's cresting sharp hilltop. (ie: GT1 cars at LeMans) | I was gonna say the same thing.. Relying too much on downforce under the car is dangerous since if the front comes up the car will fly...
__________________
The harder I lift and the more I eat, the better my genetics seem to get.
| |
| | |
03-02-2011, 08:53 PM
|
#22 | | Everyone wants a piece of R S...
Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Los Santos, USA
Posts: 383
Thanked 524 Times in 140 Posts
Failed 42 Times in 9 Posts
|
Aerodynamics this and that blah blah blah...
I want the F1 cars with the V12's of 1994 back  | |
| | |
03-03-2011, 05:38 PM
|
#23 | | RS controls my life!
Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 749
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Failed 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
The high nose increases under car air velocity and actually helps overall down force fairly significantly. It is very counter-intuitive looking (at least to me).
__________________
2.4L 6bolt 1997 DSM
| |
| | |
03-03-2011, 06:41 PM
|
#24 | | 2x Variable Nockenwellen Steuerung
Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: N49.2 W122.1
Posts: 6,176
Thanked 1,174 Times in 704 Posts
Failed 67 Times in 51 Posts
|
The closest you get is Superleague Formula.. Each team will have identical cars but the engine will be V12. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikiped...league_Formula Quote:
Originally Posted by rriggi Aerodynamics this and that blah blah blah...
I want the F1 cars with the V12's of 1994 back | | |
| | |
03-03-2011, 08:42 PM
|
#25 | | VLS Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Vancouver
Posts: 16,351
Thanked 2,591 Times in 832 Posts
Failed 61 Times in 19 Posts
| Quote:
Originally Posted by rriggi Aerodynamics this and that blah blah blah...
I want the F1 cars with the V12's of 1994 back | What? Only the Ferrari F1 cars in 1994 had V12 engines (IIRC).....
V12 engines have too much friction so they inherently had bad fuel economy. Ferrari was the last holdout. The V10 seemed to be the sweet spot in F1 back in the very late 1980's and early 1990's. Honda's V12 was powerful, but was thirsty, so wasn't as effective like their legendary V10's. Ayrton Senna had gone on record to say that he thought the Honda V12 was shit.
__________________
2007 Volvo V50
Taken by ex: 2005 Toyota Prius.
R.I.P. 1997 Lexus ES300.
R.I.P. 1989 Acura Legend Coupe LS.
| |
| | | |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
| | |
All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:13 AM.
|
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
The banners on the left side and below do not show for registered users!
