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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
Some of peoples posts on here... and I wonder why I'm so bitter all the time.
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Some of peoples posts on here... and I wonder why I'm so bitter all the time.
do you ever get the feeling that some of your serious posts are just as idiotic as you make others to be? also id like to remind you that this is a legitimate question requiring more than a "fuck off, i have underlying psychological problems with symptoms spewing all over internet forums" type of response
Engineers from the Tokyo Electric Power company (Tepco) entered the No.1 reactor at the end of last week for the first time and saw the top five feet or so of the core's 13ft-long fuel rods had been exposed to the air and melted down.
Previously, Tepco believed that the core of the reactor was submerged in enough water to keep it stable and that only 55 per cent of the core had been damaged.
Now the company is worried that the molten pool of radioactive fuel may have burned a hole through the bottom of the containment vessel, causing water to leak.
"We will have to revise our plans," said Junichi Matsumoto, a spokesman for Tepco. "We cannot deny the possibility that a hole in the pressure vessel caused water to leak".
Tepco has not clarified what other barriers there are to stop radioactive fuel leaking if the steel containment vessel has been breached. Greenpeace said the situation could escalate rapidly if "the lava melts through the vessel".
However, an initial plan to flood the entire reactor core with water to keep its temperature from rising has now been abandoned because it might exacerbate the leak. Tepco said there was enough water at the bottom of the vessel to keep both the puddle of melted fuel and the remaining fuel rods cool.
Meanwhile, Tepco said on Wednesday that it had sealed a leak of radioactive water from the No.3 reactor after water was reportedly discovered to be flowing into the ocean. A similar leak had discharged radioactive water into the sea in April from the No.2 reactor.
Greenpeace said significant amounts of radioactive material had been released into the sea and that samples of seaweed taken from as far as 40 miles of the Fukushima plant had been found to contain radiation well above legal limits. Of the 22 samples tested, ten were contaminated with five times the legal limit of iodine 131 and 20 times of caesium 137.
Seaweed is a huge part of the Japanese diet and the average household almost 7lbs a year. Greenpeace's warning came as fishermen prepared to start the harvest of this season's seaweed on May 20.
Inland from the plant, there has been a huge cull of the livestock left inside the 18-mile mandatory exclusion zone with thousands of cows, horses and pigs being destroyed and some 260,000 chickens from the town of Minamisoma alone. The Environment ministry has announced, however, that it will attempt to rescue the thousands of pets that were left behind when residents were ordered to evacuate. At least 5,800 dogs were owned by the residents of the zone, although it is unclear how many remain alive, two months after the earthquake struck.
Yes I was in Japan for 2 weeks, just got back the other day. No I wasn't afraid, because I am not ignorant, and I know there is no reason not to go to Japan right now. Just don't go to the 30km evacuation zone, and you're perfectly fine.
It was totally the same as it ever was, just darker. Most non-essential lights are shut down, so areas that are usually lit up and dazzling at night (Shibuya, Shinjuku, Akihabara, etc) are dim and quiet. It's kind of depressing, but there are just as many people in these areas. As soon as you leave Tokyo, it's the same as it ever was.
may be a dumb question, but why do they keep filling these vessels with water and not coolant or sth with a higher specific heat capacity?
As soon as they began using sea-water they were basically admitting they were fucked. In any remotely normal scenario, nothing beyond the special water in their closed loop system would be used for cooling (not chemically special, just clean).
The only substance they had access to in the quantities needed, was the nearby seawater. The seawater was basically completely evaporating as it was being poured on the reactors, hence the steam explosions.
Imagine putting a cast iron pan on a really hot stove for 20 minutes, and then using an eye dropper to put a single drop of super high efficiency coolant on the surface. That's about the same cooling result they could have achieved from dumping in whatever special coolant they had access to in the area.
Its easy forget the scale of what we are talking about here. The sheer energy being released is almost unimaginable.
Also, as the sea water evaporated all the other shit in the sea water (as opposed to the closed loop water) was caking all over the fuel rods, creating unpredictable results.
Now, it's too late to reverse all that damage and the rods are still 1000's of degrees, so the only real options are to seal it up with cement or keep pumping water.
Fortunately, the water isn't actually radioactive in the sense the news would like us to believe. Think more of sand in water. It's essentially suspended, but eventually (and quickly) falls out of the circulation. So all this radioactive stuff is not being circulated around the world through ocean currents, but rather being dispersed out in the sea near the plant.
Stay away from the Fukushima Nori for the foreseeable future!
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^^ right but it will fuck up the sea life for good. Think about those sea plants feeding off these radioactive material and having small fish eating those plants and bigger fish eat the smaller fish and so on. Is a chain reaction.
Also when they decided to use Sea water have they though about how will it affect the sea enviorment and all the animals in it? What about the long term affects it have?
Also when they decided to use Sea water have they though about how will it affect the sea enviorment and all the animals in it? What about the long term affects it have?
You said it will fuck up the sea life for good. Do you mean exactly how the gulf oil spill disaster has fucked up the sea life for good? Oh wait a minute...
I think I posted too early in that thread, as I received 90% of my fails there, while everyone was in panic (the world is ending) mode. Hope I am not posting too soon here.
Anyhow...
They could count their other options on 1 finger.
It was basically...let a full meltdown occur, or pump as much sea water into there as they could. Nothing else would have been available anywhere near the requirements of 1,000,000 gallons per minute.
Whatever they used would inevitably end up back in the sea, there was simply no solution to preventing that. So radioactive ocean water seems better than radioactive anything else I guess.
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Originally Posted by Neva
I've found this site http://fairewinds.com/ to have a pretty decent grasp of what's happening. ww.youtube.com/watch?v=Itr6GDuOOBY
This video also seems to "speculate" on the reality.
Being no expert I can't say what's true but thinking about what they say sounds plausible.
Thinking about what they say sounds plausible? Of course; anyone with a half-assed clue about convincing people of something, know the key is to use plausible statements and facts, to wrap up the few extreme statements.
If she just came on and said; "1,000,000 died in Europe from Chernobyl," "Don't ever eat European food for the rest of your life," and "80% of babies born in Falluja are deformed," people would write her off as a joke, and not fork out the money to read her book.
Unfortunately, she has probably done a good job convincing people to buy her book.
Both of those links are from Anti-Nuclear Activist sources. So be sure to read the scientific evidence from the other side, before deciding what to believe.
I mean, hundreds of nuclear bombs were detonated in the contiguous United States and over two thousand around the world. So if radiation is as bad and pervasive as some of these people suggest, we are pretty much all fucked anyways.
Japan is already shutting down other nuclear plants and making significant upgrades before reopening them. So there has been some progress made from the disaster.
I don't know; this whole situation is depressing for a multitude of reasons, and I am truthfully glad we have extreme points of views coming from different sources to promote thought, but I think the truth is found somewhere in the middle as usual.
You said it will fuck up the sea life for good. Do you mean exactly how the gulf oil spill disaster has fucked up the sea life for good? Oh wait a minute...
I think I posted too early in that thread, as I received 90% of my fails there, while everyone was in panic (the world is ending) mode. Hope I am not posting too soon here.
Anyhow...
They could count their other options on 1 finger.
It was basically...let a full meltdown occur, or pump as much sea water into there as they could. Nothing else would have been available anywhere near the requirements of 1,000,000 gallons per minute.
Whatever they used would inevitably end up back in the sea, there was simply no solution to preventing that. So radioactive ocean water seems better than radioactive anything else I guess.
Thinking about what they say sounds plausible? Of course; anyone with a half-assed clue about convincing people of something, know the key is to use plausible statements and facts, to wrap up the few extreme statements.
If she just came on and said; "1,000,000 died in Europe from Chernobyl," "Don't ever eat European food for the rest of your life," and "80% of babies born in Falluja are deformed," people would write her off as a joke, and not fork out the money to read her book.
Unfortunately, she has probably done a good job convincing people to buy her book.
Both of those links are from Anti-Nuclear Activist sources. So be sure to read the scientific evidence from the other side, before deciding what to believe.
I mean, hundreds of nuclear bombs were detonated in the contiguous United States and over two thousand around the world. So if radiation is as bad and pervasive as some of these people suggest, we are pretty much all fucked anyways.
Japan is already shutting down other nuclear plants and making significant upgrades before reopening them. So there has been some progress made from the disaster.
I don't know; this whole situation is depressing for a multitude of reasons, and I am truthfully glad we have extreme points of views coming from different sources to promote thought, but I think the truth is found somewhere in the middle as usual.
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Originally Posted by Godzira
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Originally Posted by Brianrietta
Not a sebberry post goes by where I don't frown and think to myself "so..?"
Both of those links are from Anti-Nuclear Activist sources. So be sure to read the scientific evidence from the other side, before deciding what to believe.
I mean, hundreds of nuclear bombs were detonated in the contiguous United States and over two thousand around the world. So if radiation is as bad and pervasive as some of these people suggest, we are pretty much all fucked anyways.
I don't know; this whole situation is depressing for a multitude of reasons, and I am truthfully glad we have extreme points of views coming from different sources to promote thought, but I think the truth is found somewhere in the middle as usual.
The way it comes across to me, at least, is more information is coming out of the extreme side saying how bad the situation is. I think we can all agree that governments and organizations working with governments tend to hide anything that won't kill you immediately.
The bombs detonated are just as different as they are the same to this situation (materials, exposure, wildlife etc) but fallout still remains from them blah blah blah.
I also couldn't agree more that you have to look at both sides to get at the truth that's hiding in the middle.
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Thought this Update would be interesting for ppl; since it's been quite some time since we've heard anything about the situation there
Quote:
7 June 2011 Last updated at 04:12 ET Japan doubles Fukushima radiation leak estimate
Japan has more than doubled its estimate of radiation that escaped from the tsunami-hit Fukushima nuclear plant in the first week after the disaster.
Japan's nuclear safety agency also said meltdowns took place in three reactors more quickly than earlier believed.
The assessment comes as an expert panel begins an inquiry into the crisis.
The plant's operator is hoping to shut down the facility by January, although there is concern it may take longer - the plant is still leaking radiation.
More than 80,000 local residents living within a 20km (12 mile) radius of the plant have been evacuated from their homes. A voluntary evacuation policy is operating in the area 20-30km from the plant.
Some towns further away have also been affected.
Japan's Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano says more evacuations are being considered. Monitoring shows the lie of the land and wind patterns may be causing a build-up of radiation in other areas.
Brace for criticism
Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency (Nisa) now says 770,000 terabecquerels escaped into the atmosphere following the 11 March disaster - more than double its earlier estimate of 370,000 terabecquerels.
Although the amount is just 15% of the total released at Chernobyl in Ukraine in 1986 - the world's worst nuclear disaster - it suggests the contamination of the area around the plant is worse than first thought, says the BBC's Roland Buerk in Tokyo.
The safety agency also says that in reactor No 1, molten nuclear fuel dropped to the bottom of the pressure vessel within five hours of the earthquake - 10 hours earlier than initially estimated by operator Tepco.
Nisa also says a meltdown damaged the No 2 reactor after 80 hours, and the No 3 reactor 79 hours after the tsunami knocked out the plant's cooling systems.
The revision, nearly three months into the crisis, is likely to increase criticism in Japan that the plant's operator and the government were too slow to release information, our correspondent says.
The findings were released as an independent 10-member expert panel begins an investigation into the causes of the nuclear accident.
An investigation by the UN's nuclear watchdog, the IAEA, has already pointed out a key failure - admitted by Japan - to plan for the risk of waves crashing over the sea wall and knocking out the plant's back-up generators.
Even though a major faultline lies just offshore, the sea wall at Fukushima was less than 6m (20ft) high. The height of the tsunami wave was about 14m.
In its draft report, the IAEA said continued monitoring of the health and safety of the nuclear workers and the general public was necessary.
The report also emphasised the importance of independent regulators in the nuclear industry.
In Japan, the nuclear safety agency is part of the industry ministry, which promotes nuclear power.
A draft report obtained by Japanese broadcaster NHK - to be submitted to the IAEA Ministerial Conference on Nuclear Safety later this month - outlines plans to split the two bodies.
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