Scammed $5250 from Evo Garage

[Mashimaro]

as for the shipping part, it's $250 each way for the motors to Winnipeg. Reason being is that he's had no problems with them for over 10 years and trusts them completely. Simple as that. The owners of motors that had work done and sent out to Winnipeg have had no issues with them at all (shipping price or worksmanship).

[Groot]

in for awesomeness

[TypeRNammer]

Just waiting on the response before I start poppin

[Cillu]

Here it comes.

[adambomb]

ECU's, machine shops, Winterpeg, blah, blah, blah.


Iron Chef, is it true you've had atleast 1 track day and atleast 10,000 km on this engine as Mashimaro has stated?

Let's get all the facts straight first...

[MindBomber]

This will be interesting!

[- kT]

oh snaaaappppp this is so epic
can't wait for the op's rebuttal

[hc529]

i got my popcorn ready for the awesomeness of this thread!!!!

[TypeRNammer]

Originally Posted by hc529

i got my popcorn ready for the awesomeness of this thread!!!!

Sprinkle bacon bits in your popcorn, and deep fry it with beer batter?

[Red 5]

FYI: Evo Garage was started in Winnipeg, MB in 2003 and relocated to Richmond, B.C. in 2006. That's why David sends his motors back to Winnipeg for machine work.

[Mashimaro]

Mindbomber, i see that you've edited your previous post in regards to Evogarage dealing in cash and without the use of receipts (which, like you stated, is illegal for any business).

The motor in question that was purchased by Ironchef was a personal motor that David had bought off a client with his own money and not through the shop account. He paid to have it refreshed at the machine shop with his own personal money and as such sold it to Ironchef in a private sale as one would do through craigslist or the revscene buy and sell.

Evogarage does not conduct business in any illegal manner and your original post would come across as being a bit slanderous hence why you probably changed it before i could quote it

hope that clarifies things for you!

[Mr.Money]

who knows the shitty n00b tune this guy ran on his hondata and his redline Rev limiter hits on the track before the FRESH engine couldn't handle it anymore.

[deep87]

An accusation and rebuttal on revscene that are both well thought out and easy to understand?!(well sort of)

[Xavie]

Where did the OP go? There's always two sides of a story... Home-made tunes, daily rev limiter, motor not broken in properly...

[achiam]

BE A MAN! DOOOOOOOOOOOO THE RIGHT THING!

[orange7]

this will be another epic 10+ page thread.

[|<e|_]

Waiting for the response.... The op must hv fell asleep.... Whereas I got more awake reading this heated discussion...
Posted via RS Mobile

[|<e|_]

One question though the machine shop said that it's normal that the engine burns 1L/1000km??? Could I get confirmation from ppl with itr motors cause I have a gsr and I don't burn that much oil at all in between oil changes.
Posted via RS Mobile

[IntegraleEVO]

Here’s my side of the story.

First off, some background info;
- the current on going rate for a USED ITR swap is around $4,500.00 to $4,800.00
- the reason for using the machine shop in Winnipeg is because of my long and good relationship with them. Over 10 years we have been working together and never once have I had any problems. They have always made it a priority in taking care of my customers and myself.


Ed came to me around the end of May, 2010. He was in the market for a full ITR motor swap. Unfortunately at the time I was completely out of stock on the JDM ITR swaps.

I did however mention to him I had a freshly rebuilt ITR motor that had just came back from the machine shop. I told him in detail of what was done to this specific motor; top to bottom rebuild, new rings, new bearings, new gaskets, resurfaced cylinder head and valve job. At this present time, the engine was not yet assembled, I told him I was looking for $4,500.00 READY TO SWAP (ASSEMBLED). Ed was looking to spend less than that, and asked how much for just all the parts, he would then do the assembly himself. We agreed that $4,000.00 would be fair. All necessary parts would be given to him, assembled short block, cylinder head, clutch, flywheel, transmission and so forth. If he needed anything else, I told him he would be more than welcome to come back and I could supply him with additional parts/info/help.

(The motor was originally sold to me by a friend/customer who had purchased a JDM ITR swap from Evo Garage. Which is also the reason why I was not able to produce Ed with an invoice, because Evo Garage did NOT import the motor. It was a personal transaction. ED KNOWS THIS FACT AS WELL.)

(Typically with all Evo Garage ENGINE SWAP PACKAGES, I included on the invoice; type of engine, year, serial number and ecu number for my own records.)

I also told him it would be sold as is, however I did grant him a start up warranty, plus ONE month warranty on no excessive oil burning and knocking.

After agreeing to these terms, Ed decided to make the purchase.


A month had past, he came back complaining that oil was burning. I asked him if he had broken in the engine in a non-aggressive fashion, typical daily driving and if he was using the stock ECU. (It is critical to use a stock ECU during the break in period.) He told me that he was a mechanic and knew how to break in an engine and was indeed running the stock ECU.


Ed claimed that the motor was burning oil during cold starts; we agreed that the valve seals should be looked at. (Even though it was already past the ONE month warranty period.) I was still determined to help him out. I had him leave the car with me so I could take a look at the valve seals. Upon disassembly, I had found that the machine shop did misplace the new exhaust valve seals on the intake side. I covered the cost of the all necessary parts and labour for this to be resolved.


A few weeks after I was contacted by Ed, informing me that the oil burning issue was solved.


Around September, Ed came by the shop informing me that the oil was still burning oil. He did mention that the motor was strong, makes power and what not. For he had been taking it to the track and drag strip. He said he would keep a record of how much oil it’s burning and would get back to me on a later date.


Ed came back around the end of November. He said that he had taken his car on a road trip to Calgary and it burnt about 1L every 1,500km.

Still very much willing to help Ed out, I called the machine shop asking them if they could pull up the record of this job and see what might be causing this issue. The machine shop called me back informing me that they called ACURA TECHLINE themselves and had this to report. ITR MOTOR BURNS A LITTLE BIT OF OIL WHICH IS NORMAL. They then said what’s happening right now is border line acceptable, and they would not do anything even if the car was sold brand new at the dealership. I did not tell Ed this because I was still wanting to take care of him.

I talked to Ed and asked him again if he was running a stock ECU, he assured me that he was. I believed him, and would still like to take care of this. I always hate to have an unhappy customer. We agreed on sending the motor back to the machine shop, if it had checked out that something was indeed mis-performed on their end, I would cover the shipping and machine shop would pay for all parts and labour.

By the time Ed pulled the motor and got it to my shop, it was already December. I told him that he would have to wait a while because it was getting close to to the holidays, plus I would be away on vacation in January. So you probably won't see the motor till the end of January or early February. He agreed and left the motor with me.

Some time had past since the motor was sent out, I was informed by another shop that Ed has been using a HONDATA S300 programmable ECU in his car. Ed had brough his car to them for some exhaust work, and the shop had the hardest time trying to start his car. Ed's car had such a hard time starting, the shop decided to take a look into it, try and see what was going on for the guy, which lead to them witnessing the HONDATA S300 unit in place of the stock, OEM ECU.


Fast forward, February 2, 2011. This is the day I got back from my vacation, I contacted the machine shop to get an update of what was happening. They found the motor was burning oil in all 4 cylinders, however there seemed to be alot more being burnt from cylinder 1. They told me they dis-assembed the motor and found out the rings on # 1 cylinder had signs of heat score. I informed them of my new found information regarding the programmable ECU, we both agreed that warranty should be void as this is the customer's fault. Machine shop rebuilt the motor once again putting in wiseco rings, new bearings, new seals, re-polished the crank and refinished the cylinder head. The motor was even re-assambled this time to eliminate any further issues. Because of my relationship with the machine shop, they decided to help both Ed and I out as good will, the total bill with part and labour was discounted to $1,000.00.


I called Ed and asked him once again if he was using a stock ECU during break-in and he assured me that he was. I told him that I found out he was using a HONDATA programmable ECU. He then admitted to it and told me that he even reduced FUEL on all 4 cylinders to see if it would reduce oil consumption?!?! In all my years of tuning, I have never heard of anyone reducing fuel to lower oil consumption. I believe the ECU was put in to make more power. Ed felt that there was something wrong with the stock ECU, so his solution was to replace it with a HONDATA UNIT, not running a stock map. At this point I was pretty fed-up with Ed who had been lying to me this whole time. I felt that he was trying to claim for a new motor or money back as he had screwed up on the tuning this one himself. Before ending the conversion, I told him he needs to bring $1,000.00 for the machine shop and also $250.00 each way for shipping. He told me he would have to think about it. I receieved a call from Ed later that night asking if I would take the motor back and to give him $3,000.00, I told him sorry, no.


Ed dropped by the next day and asked if he could talk to the machine shop. I honestly did not see the point and I told him that if I had known he was lying to me, I would not have sent the motor out in the first place. Anyways, I granted his requested and got himin touch with the machine shop. He talked to the machine shop on the phone himself, and then told me that the machine shop told him that they did NOT find any problems. I asked him to hand me the phone, immediately hear a yelling over the phone "WE DID NOT SAY THAT" I asked Ed, why are you lying to me again?! Ed got mad and threaten me, he told me to call him when the motor comes back and then left the shop.


Couple weeks after, the motor is now back from the machine shop. Ed shows up with 2 of his friends, their goal was to try and pick up the motor without paying. A fight almost broke out at the shop and his friend threatened me saying - "It won't be nice for business if there are trouble while you are working, etc., etc.") After some time of quarrel, his friend asked and listened to my side of the story. After listening, he said "I am sorry, and that you are probably right, but I am Ed's friend and Ed is looking for some form of discount, lets just get it over with."

I don't see any other shops or manufacturers granting warranty on a product that has been tampered with. In this case, a motor using a programmable ECU with a faulty tune.

So end of the day I had to lose out some money for Ed to leave with his motor and friends.

This will be my one and only post regarding this matter.

-david@evogarage

[TRDood]

^^^

Props for staying up late and explaining! Now I can sleep.


Iron Chef grilled! Can't wait for his response.
Posted via RS Mobile

[orange7]

wow.. me staying up all night waiting for a reply actually paid off for once!

I wonder if iron chef's friends go on rs?

it would be nice to hear from them too.

[TRD Rs200]

awaiting responseeeeeeeee

[bing]

this Ed guy is a mechanic and his own tune messed up the engine? what shop do you work at? so I know where not to bring my car.......

[Mr.Money]

thought he could get away with that shit too.

[dangonay]

I want to know how running a rich tune and washing out rings would cause a valve seal to leak. I'd also like to know how running a rich tune would affect only one cylinder.
Posted via RS Mobile