Help with Hockey Skates!

[skiiipi]

Originally Posted by beetea

That's how you determine how a skate fits?

1. Width
2. Length
3. Forward Lean

You're missing one important element but that's cool.

There is actually a few more elements such as flex, volume, pitch etc.
But in the case of the OP, the problem is most likely caused by the 3 problems I listed above.

Trust me...i've been fitting skates/ski boots for a long time.....I know what i'm doing.

[6thGear.]

Originally Posted by G

^PM'ed both of you!

Thanks for all the help!

For those wondering how bad the pronation is here is a pic:

Warning:

Spoiler!

http://img813.imageshack.us/i/img0092io.jpg/

Whoa, that's so weird, cause I have the same problem with my Mission Helium 9500 roller blades. I don't have the blisters like you do, but it made some sort of a protrusion in the same spot, looks kinda like I have a bone sticking out. Right boot causes more than the left. My ice skates (Bauer Vapor XXII) don't do it at all and they are both the same sizes.

What I have to do before roller season starts (every summer) is to take a hair dryer and heat up the area, take a butt end extension and push it out, then stick a ice hockey puck inside and tighten up the boot and let it sit overnight. Try that and see if it helps you

[SolidPenguin]

Older mission boots are notorious for being really narrow. A proper foot bed will help both of you in this situation, before any punching. You really need to keep your foot from over pronating inside your skates

You both have the same issue in that exact same spot because that is where your subtalar joint is. That is the joint where pronation/supination occurs in the foot.
Im assuming your right foot is dominant, that is why the right foot is worse than the left. It is usually a bit wider as well, or you are pushing off it harder because it is your dominant foot.

[6thGear.]

I have a partial tear in my right acl, which probably makes me work my right foot harder. I thought of getting a foot liner thingy, but I'm playing less and less roller these days as I'm sticking to ice more and more. Unless this foot bed thing helps other aspects, then it may interest me.

[G]

Originally Posted by SolidPenguin

Older mission boots are notorious for being really narrow. A proper foot bed will help both of you in this situation, before any punching. You really need to keep your foot from over pronating inside your skates

You both have the same issue in that exact same spot because that is where your subtalar joint is. That is the joint where pronation/supination occurs in the foot.
Im assuming your right foot is dominant, that is why the right foot is worse than the left. It is usually a bit wider as well, or you are pushing off it harder because it is your dominant foot.

So, what do you mean by a proper foot bed? I bought that Super Feet which "apparently" makes your foot in proper place or some bullshit gimmick. It is almost scabbing now so I can perhaps try skating on them again or perhaps look into other skates...

[beetea]

get proper skates that fit your foot dude, im sick and tired of listening to this footbed nonsense

get fitted properly with a pair of skates that fit your properly enough said, missions skates suck hard, they fit 1/10 people PROPERLY because of their shape, not everyone has a perfect foot.

if you dont think this is true, why do you think mission no longer sells skates? oh because bauer bought them? no because the fit of their skates were totally brutal, that area where you have blisters on your foot, superfeet aint gonna help jack all. im sick and tired of listening to the mechanics of the foot nonsense.

if you have a bone spur on your foot, do you wear superfeet to correct it? no you punch that area out, its a simple fix.

have you ever did a custom fit for a pair of skates? didn't think so. only a massive sports store can think a pair of insoles can fix the world.



edit**

oh and taking a jab at the independent hockey shop employee, all we sell is hockey, all we know is hockey. we specialize in hockey. enough said.

[SolidPenguin]

No one ever said not to get it punched, or not to get it properly fitted, or even buy a new skate. We all suggested those things, and even offered to give him his money back to do so. The footbed is always a starting point, it will obviously not fix the world if the skate is improperly fitted to begin with.

If you have been fitting customs skates, and dont put in a proper footbed, i'd hate to be wasting $900 on a pair of custom skates from you.
Go find any professional Boot/skate fitter or any elite level athlete and see what they put in their cleats/skates/boot what-have-you. I can be sure 100% it wont be some cheap 5 cent piece of foam that comes stock with it.

Again, i am not saying a footbed will fix all your problems, but it is always something to have. After that, custom work to the boot will be done. If you dont think the mechanics of a foot comes into boot/skate fitting and skating itself, then i dont think you should be fitting someone for skates.

*edit
If you really dont like superfeet or a footbed, then dont buy them. Simple as that. We have given our knowledge on the subject, and suggestions on what he can do. If OP doesnt like them, he can refund them, even if cut/used. Thats how much they stand behind their product.
Those podiatrists must have some good scam going on then eh, selling custom foot beds at $400-600 a pop. And i bet those dont work either, just another gimmick...

[skiiipi]

Originally Posted by beetea

get proper skates that fit your foot dude, im sick and tired of listening to this footbed nonsense

get fitted properly with a pair of skates that fit your properly enough said, missions skates suck hard, they fit 1/10 people PROPERLY because of their shape, not everyone has a perfect foot.

if you dont think this is true, why do you think mission no longer sells skates? oh because bauer bought them? no because the fit of their skates were totally brutal, that area where you have blisters on your foot, superfeet aint gonna help jack all. im sick and tired of listening to the mechanics of the foot nonsense.

if you have a bone spur on your foot, do you wear superfeet to correct it? no you punch that area out, its a simple fix.

have you ever did a custom fit for a pair of skates? didn't think so. only a massive sports store can think a pair of insoles can fix the world.



edit**

oh and taking a jab at the independent hockey shop employee, all we sell is hockey, all we know is hockey. we specialize in hockey. enough said.

U just ruins any faith I had left in cyclones.
To say you don't believe in foot biomechanics and you fit skates is an insult to real skater fitters out there.
Sure all you sell is hockey skates, but besides playing hockey, what CREDENTIALS do you have when it comes to understanding how the foot works.
When u said u don't get a foot bed for a bone spur, do u even understand why u get bone spurs. U don't just go and make everything bigger when something rubs, u need to find out WHY that area is rubbing. If your foot is not moving inside ur boot, there will be no rubbing, if ur foot is not stablized no matter how much room u make by punching, ur foot will constantly be moving.
Go ask the owner/most tenured skate fitter in ur shop, and ask him if biomechanics is important in skate fitting.

Fyi, my credentials
Skate fitting since 2003
Certified ski boot fitter thru Masterfit University
Master Boot Fit certificate from Masterfit University
Certified custom footbed maker thru Masterfit University
Posted via RS Mobile

[beetea]

omfg theres too much I have to say in this. but you know what I'm going to drop it.

i could careless what you faith you had in cyclones. i think there's are reason why pros come get their skates done up with us, but then again what do we know. they're just playing in the NHL. no big deal.


I've said what I needed to say to OP through a PM. keep doing what you sportchek guys are doing.

[G]

Okay, whoa, I didn't mean anything like this to happen on this thread. All the people on this thread have contributed greatly and have helped me a lot. I just asked about superfeet because I am new to this sport and I don't know if I should be spending my money wisely on that. I have spoken to most of you through PM and I, again, greatly appreciate all your help for a skate noob. Both cyclone taylors and sportchek are good stores and there is no reason to beef. I've made my decision for my next step and I hope this thread would end peacefull!

Again, thanks for all the people who have contributed to help me with my problem.

Go Canucks Go!
Posted via RS Mobile

[UFO]

Your scabbing is due in part to overpronation, and in part to poor fitting skates. Your scabbing area is not the subtalar joint as mentioned, although the subtalar joint IS involved heavily with overpronation. Overpronation causes the navicular bone in your foot to deviate down and in, into your boot, which causes excessive pressure at the area you are scabbing. Same thing happens many times in ski boots. Some people also present with an 'accessory navicular' where that bone is more prominent even with overpronation completely corrected. In my experience, reducing (yes, reducing. You can't eliminate pronation nor should you) overpronation by using an insole alone rarely solves your problem.

An insole like Superfeet MAY help you out, a custom insole/orthotic device MAY help you out, and better fitting/punched out skates MAY also help you out. Your problem is from a couple of different factors, and you should also expect the solution to come from more than one avenue as a result. You need to account for your foot's unique biomechanical needs, as well as respect the knowledge of experienced boot fitters when considering what brands and models may be most appropriate for you. I'm just saying, don't expect the one magic bullet to solve all of your problems. In your case, you have a skate you purchased at a bargain price and have been trying to get somebody to make something less than ideal work for you. It may or may not work out.

ps: Lougheed Sportchek were having SICK deals blowing older model skates. I don't doubt that you probably got a decent mid-end skate at $50. I picked up a pair of one95's for $80, too bad they weren't anywhere near my size.

[G]

^Too intense with the anatomy! But, I kind of get a gist of what you are saying.

Update for all: I was hooked up with the awesome people on RS that helped me out at the Richmond SportChek! Got myself fitted and bought the Bauer Supreme One60 skate (Yea, expensive, I know... =( But, hopefully worth it?)

From trying on all the skates, I really liked the Vapor X:30 (I think?), as it was the comfiest, and felt the best on my feet. Sadly, it was way over my budget.

Hopefully nothing happens on my foot again! I will be skating 3 times this week with the new skates. I will try to update this thread on how it feels!

Thanks again for all your contributions.

[trancehead]

Originally Posted by UFO

Your scabbing is due in part to overpronation, and in part to poor fitting skates. Your scabbing area is not the subtalar joint as mentioned, although the subtalar joint IS involved heavily with overpronation. Overpronation causes the navicular bone in your foot to deviate down and in, into your boot, which causes excessive pressure at the area you are scabbing. Same thing happens many times in ski boots. Some people also present with an 'accessory navicular' where that bone is more prominent even with overpronation completely corrected. In my experience, reducing (yes, reducing. You can't eliminate pronation nor should you) overpronation by using an insole alone rarely solves your problem.

An insole like Superfeet MAY help you out, a custom insole/orthotic device MAY help you out, and better fitting/punched out skates MAY also help you out. Your problem is from a couple of different factors, and you should also expect the solution to come from more than one avenue as a result. You need to account for your foot's unique biomechanical needs, as well as respect the knowledge of experienced boot fitters when considering what brands and models may be most appropriate for you. I'm just saying, don't expect the one magic bullet to solve all of your problems. In your case, you have a skate you purchased at a bargain price and have been trying to get somebody to make something less than ideal work for you. It may or may not work out.

ps: Lougheed Sportchek were having SICK deals blowing older model skates. I don't doubt that you probably got a decent mid-end skate at $50. I picked up a pair of one95's for $80, too bad they weren't anywhere near my size.

are you certain these are one95's? if they are, for 80$ that is a kill

[skiiipi]

Originally Posted by UFO

Your scabbing is due in part to overpronation, and in part to poor fitting skates. Your scabbing area is not the subtalar joint as mentioned, although the subtalar joint IS involved heavily with overpronation. Overpronation causes the navicular bone in your foot to deviate down and in, into your boot, which causes excessive pressure at the area you are scabbing. Same thing happens many times in ski boots. Some people also present with an 'accessory navicular' where that bone is more prominent even with overpronation completely corrected. In my experience, reducing (yes, reducing. You can't eliminate pronation nor should you) overpronation by using an insole alone rarely solves your problem.

An insole like Superfeet MAY help you out, a custom insole/orthotic device MAY help you out, and better fitting/punched out skates MAY also help you out. Your problem is from a couple of different factors, and you should also expect the solution to come from more than one avenue as a result. You need to account for your foot's unique biomechanical needs, as well as respect the knowledge of experienced boot fitters when considering what brands and models may be most appropriate for you. I'm just saying, don't expect the one magic bullet to solve all of your problems. In your case, you have a skate you purchased at a bargain price and have been trying to get somebody to make something less than ideal work for you. It may or may not work out.

ps: Lougheed Sportchek were having SICK deals blowing older model skates. I don't doubt that you probably got a decent mid-end skate at $50. I picked up a pair of one95's for $80, too bad they weren't anywhere near my size.

Props to someone that knows what they are talking about. Seeing the OP's foot in person, it is the nevicular bone that is dropping. The OP has a serverally over pronated foot. So the area of pressure was quite normal.

Out of curiosity, u work in the sporting goods field? Or sportsmed?
Posted via RS Mobile

[UFO]

G: surprised the Vapor lineup was what you found most comfortable. From everything I've heard, the Vapor line fits a lot snugger and narrower, so not the best for a severe overpronator. The Supreme line which you ended up in should theoretically be more comfortable. But here once again is where it is important to trust the knowledge and experience of your fitter to match the minor nuances for each skate and each unique foot type.

trancehead: yes they are one95's and they scanned in at ~$450 but cashier adjusted to the sale price. I had to do a quadruple take before picking them up; apparently last pair in the company

skiipi: I am a Certified Canadian Pedorthist. I deal with feet, biomechanical, and lower body ailments all day everyday for work so I'm confident in saying I know a thing or two about the area. I provide custom orthotics for all different needs and purposes, including skates. But honestly Superfeet's skate product is excellent for what it is, and does 90% of what a custom orthotic would be able to do in most cases when inside a skate environment. As I have a fairly extensive sporting background (and I did work for Sportchek waaay back in the day), I can apply a lot more of what I know from my vocational training to real-life applications for people who use activity for recreation, or high performance athletes.

[mickz]

Originally Posted by SolidPenguin

No one ever said not to get it punched, or not to get it properly fitted, or even buy a new skate. We all suggested those things, and even offered to give him his money back to do so. The footbed is always a starting point, it will obviously not fix the world if the skate is improperly fitted to begin with.

If you have been fitting customs skates, and dont put in a proper footbed, i'd hate to be wasting $900 on a pair of custom skates from you.
Go find any professional Boot/skate fitter or any elite level athlete and see what they put in their cleats/skates/boot what-have-you. I can be sure 100% it wont be some cheap 5 cent piece of foam that comes stock with it.

Again, i am not saying a footbed will fix all your problems, but it is always something to have. After that, custom work to the boot will be done. If you dont think the mechanics of a foot comes into boot/skate fitting and skating itself, then i dont think you should be fitting someone for skates.

*edit
If you really dont like superfeet or a footbed, then dont buy them. Simple as that. We have given our knowledge on the subject, and suggestions on what he can do. If OP doesnt like them, he can refund them, even if cut/used. Thats how much they stand behind their product.
Those podiatrists must have some good scam going on then eh, selling custom foot beds at $400-600 a pop. And i bet those dont work either, just another gimmick...

Why would "proper foot beds" be needed for a custom pair of skates?

As for the pros wearing them, using the Canucks as an example, most players use stock insoles... Ehrhoff is the only exception but he is super picky with all his gear.

[skiiipi]

Originally Posted by mickz

Why would "proper foot beds" be needed for a custom pair of skates?

As for the pros wearing them, using the Canucks as an example, most players use stock insoles... Ehrhoff is the only exception but he is super picky with all his gear.

When ordering a custom skate, proper footbed is the most important. That's because when all the foot measurement is taken, its done when ur foot is in the neutrual position. Everything from ankle height, arch length, instep height, forefoot and heel width are all measured and sized to the neutrual/unweighted food.

If your foot overpronates, your foot will change shape when ur skating, and that custom skate you ordered will no longer fit ur foot.

A footbed will not stop pronation, nor do you want it to stop pronation, but a proper footbed will stablize the heel/subtaylor joint to keep ur foot as neutral as possible, so that ur skate is fitted to ur foot at its "strongest"/smallest state.

Over 90% of pros use aftermarket/custom foodbeds in their skates, however a lot of them are unbranded. In fact, a lot of prostock skates even come without insoles, because most of these players will already have their own prefered footbed.
Posted via RS Mobile

[G]

Update :

So I tried skating on the new skates today. Felt really good for the most part. The previous spot didn't hurt or rub. However, I did get a blister on both feet near the outer back heel area on both feet. I am assuming this is common in breaking in new skates plus not skating for a while?
Posted via RS Mobile

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by beetea

lol to the super feet remark, they just up-sold you for no reason at all.

if the pain is on the ankle area, spot punching will take care of it. not some foot bed.

but if its an older pair of missions, it is very common on that spot, just about the arch you'd say? infront of the ankle? come to cyclones and i'll take care of a fellow RS'er. pm me bud.

super feet rocks!!!! rockssssssssssss!

[Spidey]

editted

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by mickz

Why would "proper foot beds" be needed for a custom pair of skates?

As for the pros wearing them, using the Canucks as an example, most players use stock insoles... Ehrhoff is the only exception but he is super picky with all his gear.

when you look at nhl skates they may look like stock insoles but they are specific to the player... even when kane gets his apx saktes made by bauer he gets a mold of his foot and tracings.. so they are 100% custom.. even the footbeds.. just because he doesnt use generic arch supporters etc doesn't mean his insoles are not modified.

Just because you can bake a 900 dollar skate doesn't mean they are custom.. they are still a generic boot that is molded to fit your foot... nothing is altered in height width, or arch support... the best general consumers can do is get aftermarket footbeds that designed for ppl with either flat feet or high arches...

[Wormiez]

Hey guys got a question on getting custom skate tongues. Been having lace bite issues with my current skate.

Recently had Ice Level add a new layer of felt tongue to the skate. The new layer of of felt didn't help when the tongue shifted during strides. Any shops that can replace the entire tongue with a wider one?

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by Wormiez

Hey guys got a question on getting custom skate tongues. Been having lace bite issues with my current skate.

Recently had Ice Level add a new layer of felt tongue to the skate. The new layer of of felt didn't help when the tongue shifted during strides. Any shops that can replace the entire tongue with a wider one?

have you tried different types of laces

[Spidey]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=lace+bite