Mainland Chinese Buying West Van

[skylinergtr]

if there are hot hongers moving into my area, i am not complaining.

[Graeme S]

TL;DR: I agree and disagree with a lot of stuff said in this thread.

Originally Posted by bing

ooh boo fucking hoo its $80. They buy a name brand handbag and boom the government recovers more than that rebate already. Wealthy people tend to SPEND money and that generates tax revenue. Also it's not like if that money was not given to them, it would directly go into someone less fortunate's pocket. The problem with the social system is that it breeds laziness. The only way it helps is if everyone works even harder and we all benefit, unfortunately that isn't the case. Why don't you start bitching about all the bums and free loaders in society, as I remember 1 million dollars is spent in the DTES every day. Figure probably doesn't even include using up all our police and hospital resources.

What you're looking at is the Government revenue side of things. Having lived below the poverty line, the statement you're making with this rant is very much a "let them eat cake" one. $80 is enough for me to buy meat for a month. Costco Chicken and Beef, bagged and frozen and I have enough meat to last me for a month. That means I can eat so I have enough energy to get through work without running out of energy and feeling exhausted.

You may claim that the social system breeds laziness but I'm not so sure that's true. If the social system is so good, what makes you want to keep working? Why do you not just sit there and leech off welfare? I can list several reasons: Pride. Dreams for the future. Desire for goods. A desire to make yourself something bigger than you are, or to build something for future generations.

A social system should be something people can fall back on when you face hard times. Something that when or if you lose your job and the market crashes (which can happen at the same time, as much as we'd hope that it doesn't), you will have a cushion to fall on just in case you need it. And a cushion that's got enough spring to it that you can bounce back and pull yourself up.

Please don't misunderstand me, though. I'm not at all saying that the money spent in the DTES is justified in being spent in the manner that it is. $365,000,000 could buy a whole lot of supervised social housing, job training, drug rehab, and harm reduction. The issue is that many of those things are not measureable--you can measure the number of police incidents and the number of sandwiches that get handed out and the number of needles that get exchanged and the number of people on the streets....and people want numbers. The numbers we can't track (things like the recoveries that have been provided by Safe Injection Sites like Insite) are the ones that are actually the most crucial.

Originally Posted by sundance1911

The rich Chinese are buying up Canada just like twenty years ago the rich Americans buying up lands in China and setup factories there and abuse its labor. Karma is a bitch.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the factories in China are owned by mainland Chinese or Taiwanese-chinese people, aren't they? Many multinational corporations set up in China, but wasn't it though starting subsidiary companies there?

As a sidenote: how has foreign investment affected the price of housing in China? Are there any places that have faced a sudden influx of outside dollars which have caused a housing availability or pricing crises?

Originally Posted by sundance1911

I truly don't understand why not learning English in canada is such a big deal for many of you.

I can totally understand why all the rich immigrants won't bother to learn a lick of english here, and I support them 100%. This is a free country what language they speak is none of you business.

You need to understand: Many of the wealthy Chinese in Canada came here for a very short term purpose: they either just want to send their children here for education or just buying a 2nd home here for vacation or investment purpose. Under this circumstance do you think any of them would actually want to seriously learn a foriegn language?

answer this: if you ever become rich enough to purpose a 2nd house in Mexico or the Middle East for vacation / investment purpose, would you be learning Spanish or Arabs like theres no tomororw? no, you would not. You would still be in Mexico or Middle East and expect them to speak your language (in this case english) to be at your service.

Get this: try to get into the richman's mindset is the first step toward one day being like one of them.

Interestingly enough, I got in a fight with an Old White Lady (I'm white too, btw) coming back Downtown from West Van. I was on the bus and there was a bunch of 5 or six (I think) Brazilian kids in their early 20s-ish speaking (I think) Portugese. OWL starts berating them for not speaking English. "You should speak English." "This is Canada, we only have two official Languages" "It's a courtesy to others." I, as well as other people on the bus, started to get upset with her saying that while the two languages are the official languages, people are free to speak whatever they like. It seemed like they were international students, who were coming here to learn English. As an English teacher, I feel that students should speak English as much as possible in order to adjust to the English mentality. Having gone abroad before to a foreign country and trying to adapt, I also understand the need to just talk with people of your own language/background in order to just unwind and talk without worrying about grammar or vocab.

That having been said, if I were to invest in a foreign country, you're damned right I'd want to make sure I knew at least a little bit of the language. If I'm to dump thousands, if not millions, of dollars into a foreign country, I would sure as hell not want to take just one person's word on what the laws, policies and habits of the native country there are. I wouldn't want to always rely on agents to do absolutely everything for me. I would want to keep an element of control and communication. It may only be me, but I like making social connections with those around me--from the same culture and mentality or not.

Originally Posted by parm104

Why should you work harder you ask? Not because we want you to help rich people become more rich...But because you feel that you deserve more and have the potential to be more financially stable...Everyone makes life choices...the choices made by "rich" people have generally brought them to where they are today. Yes, some get their money through inheritances and trust funds, but nevertheless, someone in their family, at one point or another, worked extremely hard to earn that money. They have the right to do as they please with it so long as they are not directly hurting anyone else with it. If they want to give it to their children, they have every legal and moral right to do so.

Interestingly enough, I agree with this point. People are free to do whatever they want with their money. I disagree, however, with the idea that rich people should not be taxed and should have no responsibility to the people below them. The idea behind reducing corporate tax rates and making it easier for businesses to make profits is that these profits will turn into jobs or raises which turn into more money--yet when the minimum wage is set to go up, several business owners complain that they cannot afford to pay their employees anymore, and the if people want to make more they should work harder.

Point being that while people will work harder to make themselves better off, they will generally not do things to help others unless forced or coerced (a good employee says "I'm gonna quit" and a raise is then offered).

Originally Posted by willystyle

And don't give me this BS that moving out to the suburbs will be affordable cause it's not. For a family of 4, buying a house in Surrey Central, for example, will set you back 500-550K before tax. After tax, you're looking at approximately 620K. 20% down-payment, for example, which is UNHEARD of, would set you back at 124K downpayment. A mortgage of 496K, at today's rate of 3.7% Variable, 5 years interest term, amortization at 30 years.

Monthly payment is $2,283.00

This is ONLY your mortgage payment, excluding utils, property tax, maintenance, etc.

Average household income is approximately 60k in Vancouver (gross). Net income is approximately 48K.

The annual mortgage payment is $27,396 (2,283.00 x 12).

That is 57% of your annual income going towards ONLY your mortgage for the average household.

Nevermind buying and owning a house in Vancouver, This is not even affordable to buy a house in the suburbs for an average family.

This is how fucked up and flawed our real estate market is.

Agreed. More than dollar amounts, livability indexes usually look at percentage of income spent on housing. An ideal amount is supposedly 30%, and we are...far from that.

Originally Posted by sundance1911

you just a whining bitch who apparently has never got out of vancouver to see the real world.

have you been to Japan, Korea, Taiwan, China, HK, or ANY other countries whose native language is not English? ALL of these countries without exception have their street signs in both their own language AND English. Why? because they want to make life easier for foriengers, and this is what I call hospitality. What makes you think Canada can be so arrogant and doesn't need to have signs in other languages? you think the Queen still rules the earth or something? wake up! it's time to pull your head out of the hole and see the real world.

When I first started teaching English, a really decently-sized chunk of them hate a real anger against English. English is everywhere in Asia, and I didn't really understand their anger until I took a quick trip to Korea on vacation. English is literally everywhere--I felt like I could live there without learning the language. And when I made that realization, I felt profoundly guilty. Certainly, the spread of English as a Lingua Franca has been helpful for the tourism industry worldwide (no matter where you go or what your native tongue is, chances are someone somewhere will speak some English) and an amazing coup for Cultural Imperialism. I honestly feel bad when I hear my students complain about The Foreign District, where all the white people live hiding in their little sheltered pocket of WhiteLand where they don't have to deal with the crazy foreigners who live in and are citizens of that country and who pay their salaries.

I really wish they'd pull their heads out of their holes and see the real world too.

Originally Posted by Z3guy

really?, maybe you tell that to my neighbour who painted his house bright red, talks really loud outside late at night, spits all over the place, and generally thinks he can act the same way in Vancouver as he does in China.

My mom painted her house purple, blows out snot rockets while she gardens, and gets annoyingly loud when she has a glass of wine with her friends on the porch at night. Your point?

Originally Posted by observer

Last time I checked, the Chinese salesman was making a few hundred thousand a year at Porsche taking full advantage of the situation.

There are lots of opportunities.

Originally Posted by observer

You are quite right about the husbands, but I think their family members do spend quite substantially here. Perhaps insignificant compared to the father, but for our small economy, the wives and kids are putting down quite a lot of money.

Look at Holt Renfrew, look at all the restaurants in Richmond, look at all the luxury car dealerships.

These points are valid but also have issues in and of themselves. How many people are employed by Porsche as salespeople? How will an increase of Porsche sales increase the pocketbook of the owners of the dealership and the salesperson. There will not be a huge boom in the number of Porsche mechanics, nor HR salespeople.

While lots of people are looking at the amount of money being spent in total, I am thinking more in terms of the way it's being spent. How many more jobs is Holt Renfrew creating because of the number of people spending their money there? How many more Real Estate agents have jobs because of this? What's the end result in the number of jobs created? Tax revenue is kind of moot when it goes back into EI Payments.

Originally Posted by Manic!

That's called a vacation property. Lots of Canadians are doing the same thing in the states.

And lots of it is coming because of the housing bubble and subsequent increase of the Canadian dollar relative to the US dollar. Also, see below:

Originally Posted by willystyle

Has it reached our level of unaffordable?
Do we have nearly as many foreclosures?
Do they generate as much international interest as we do?

The answer is NO, so I don't see your point.

(thanks man!)

Originally Posted by sundance1911

no...I will continue to encourage the rich immigrants here not to speak the local language, and this is how most of them do anyways.

Why? because when Americans moves to China, HK, Japan or any other Asian countries (For long term work /vacation not just temporary), almost none of them bother to learn the local languages, so why should the Chinese learn your language?

And you say the governments in other countries don't bend for foreigner's needs... uh you obviously haven't never got out of this shitty country..in Japan ,China or Taiwan, we have many "American schools" or "european schools" so that the Americans and Europeans can have their children study in those school, in their own languages and don't have to go to the local schools....can you imagine the level of arrogance here? is Canada doing the same? Does Canada have a Chinese school so that we Chinese can get proper education and don't have to go to the shitty local schools and be with white trash kids and learn how to smoke pot and vandalize? answer is no.

so you poor white trash or chinese traitors just keep complaining..just like others say, haters be hating, but your poor government will just welcome more rich Chinese to buy up your land with open arms. don't like it? work harder, or move to mexico or brazil where you will instantly become rich comparing to the locals, just like what we are doing.

Unfortunately, it's true that many people who leave Canada or the US or England never bother to truly adjust to their new home-country. "American schools" and "European schools", however....that's something quite different. Most of them are actually termed "International schools", and a good number of them are mostly funded by people who live in and were born in whichever country it is in. A former coworker of mine's father was a Consul for the American Embassy in Brazil. His father was to be stationed there for only two years, and so trying to get an education for 2 years in full Portugese would have been highly impractical. The International school he attended was for foreign diplomats' children, and RIDICULOUSLY rich locals. When I say ridiculously, I mean "booking a whole club on a saturday night for the whole night just for a 15-year-old-girl and her classmates" ridiculous. These people sent their children to these schools because they acknowledged that English is the Lingua Franca and trade language, and that the name brand of an Ivy League or Oxford/Cambridge-type University is invaluable when determining a person's future--and the only way you can go to one of those is if you are educated in and speak English. Certainly, we as English native speakers have a massive advantage over foreigners, which is why only the ridcu-rich can send their children there.


As far as Chinese schools...it's interesting you should mention that. Burnaby (SD41 for those who are interested) has recently started a pilot Mandarin Immersion program for students. Not for students who speak Chinese at home, but for non-chinese-speaking families who want to give their children a leg up on what may be the next big Lingua Franca.

You might think Canadians don't give China and Mandarin the hueg mad props it deserves, and you may be right. But the times are a'changin' both here and there--and everywhere really. It's all just a question of who benefits now and in the future.

[asian_XL]

Originally Posted by skylinergtr

if there are hot hongers moving into my area, i am not complaining.

Honger is an extinct species in Vancouver, pretty much.
They are now living just like normal Vancouvrite with average income.

[Mr.HappySilp]

lol this thread pretty went off topic pages ago.

I think it becomes an issue if only 10 to 20% of the working Vancouvrite can afford to buy an apartment/duplex/house while the rest have to rent or live under their parents' roof.

[Mr.C]

Just addressing some points made by Graeme:

- The Brazilians you saw on the bus were surely international students. There are not too many young Brazilians in Vancouver right now. Most are older professionals / entrepreneurs that were tired of dealing with all the third world bullshit you have to put up with there, or that there were things more important than money. You know, like quality of life not having to roll in bulletproof cars and such.

- As for the international (Anglo-American or whatever schools), they are bilingual (English and Portuguese mixed in) or English-only (for diplomats and such) and for the filthy rich. But if you are planning on living in the country, you better know Portuguese.

[parm104]

‎"Three solutions to every problem: Accept it, change it leave it. If you can't accept it, change it. If you can't change it, leave it."

[HonestTea]

Originally Posted by skylinergtr

if there are hot hongers moving into my area, i am not complaining.

no such thing

[sundance1911]

Originally Posted by Graeme S

TL;DR: I agree and disagree with a lot of stuff said in this thread.........

.

Graeme, well written and I agree with most of what you said. If there are more people like you and less people bitching about, the world would become a much better place.

[observer]

Originally Posted by Graeme S

[COLOR="Red"]These points are valid but also have issues in and of themselves. How many people are employed by Porsche as salespeople? How will an increase of Porsche sales increase the pocketbook of the owners of the dealership and the salesperson. There will not be a huge boom in the number of Porsche mechanics, nor HR salespeople.

While lots of people are looking at the amount of money being spent in total, I am thinking more in terms of the way it's being spent. How many more jobs is Holt Renfrew creating because of the number of people spending their money there? How many more Real Estate agents have jobs because of this? What's the end result in the number of jobs created? Tax revenue is kind of moot when it goes back into EI Payments.

Think ESL school teachers, think Richmond restaurant servers, think T&T cashiers, think language school administrative staff members, think all small and middle size businesses supported by new immigrants, think the amount of money the 30,000 Chinese immigrants bring.

[Apparition]

Originally Posted by Marco911

I thought the Lion's Gate Bridge was supposed to scare the C-Lai's away.

LOL that's so true, I know it scared my mom away when we first moved to Canada back in 91.... kept complaining how scary it was to drive on it everytime she had to visit relatives on the "mainland" or CHINA TOWN before Richmond became what it is today.... we had to move to west side vancouver after a year.... and when I took my driving lessons I went on the bridge after 4 hours behind the wheel and went PFFFFF mom was afraid of THIS?!

[Apparition]

Originally Posted by asian_XL

Honger is an extinct species in Vancouver, pretty much.
They are now living just like normal Vancouvrite with average income.

x2, while working at the airport from '02-05, I dealt with (all travellers had to deal with me as part of my job) exactly 8 HK immigrant individual/families while I don't have enough hands or feet in my family to count how many mainland China immigrants I encountered.

It's a sad change for HK I think; a lot of the early 90s immigrants moved back after the PLA didn't over run HK after 97 and some of them realized the few millions they brought along in the begining wasn't enough to fight the crazy inflation in Vancouver for them to retire at age 40. Now HK people tend to stay where they are; the rich one sends kids overseas but most return to HK or do business in mainland China.

[Apparition]

Originally Posted by Graeme S

TL;DR: I agree and disagree with a lot of stuff said in this thread.



What you're looking at is the Government revenue side of things. Having lived below the poverty line, the statement you're making with this rant is very much a "let them eat cake" one. $80 is enough for me to buy meat for a month. Costco Chicken and Beef, bagged and frozen and I have enough meat to last me for a month. That means I can eat so I have enough energy to get through work without running out of energy and feeling exhausted.

You may claim that the social system breeds laziness but I'm not so sure that's true. If the social system is so good, what makes you want to keep working? Why do you not just sit there and leech off welfare? I can list several reasons: Pride. Dreams for the future. Desire for goods. A desire to make yourself something bigger than you are, or to build something for future generations.

A social system should be something people can fall back on when you face hard times. Something that when or if you lose your job and the market crashes (which can happen at the same time, as much as we'd hope that it doesn't), you will have a cushion to fall on just in case you need it. And a cushion that's got enough spring to it that you can bounce back and pull yourself up.

Please don't misunderstand me, though. I'm not at all saying that the money spent in the DTES is justified in being spent in the manner that it is. $365,000,000 could buy a whole lot of supervised social housing, job training, drug rehab, and harm reduction. The issue is that many of those things are not measureable--you can measure the number of police incidents and the number of sandwiches that get handed out and the number of needles that get exchanged and the number of people on the streets....and people want numbers. The numbers we can't track (things like the recoveries that have been provided by Safe Injection Sites like Insite) are the ones that are actually the most crucial.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the factories in China are owned by mainland Chinese or Taiwanese-chinese people, aren't they? Many multinational corporations set up in China, but wasn't it though starting subsidiary companies there?

As a sidenote: how has foreign investment affected the price of housing in China? Are there any places that have faced a sudden influx of outside dollars which have caused a housing availability or pricing crises?


Interestingly enough, I got in a fight with an Old White Lady (I'm white too, btw) coming back Downtown from West Van. I was on the bus and there was a bunch of 5 or six (I think) Brazilian kids in their early 20s-ish speaking (I think) Portugese. OWL starts berating them for not speaking English. "You should speak English." "This is Canada, we only have two official Languages" "It's a courtesy to others." I, as well as other people on the bus, started to get upset with her saying that while the two languages are the official languages, people are free to speak whatever they like. It seemed like they were international students, who were coming here to learn English. As an English teacher, I feel that students should speak English as much as possible in order to adjust to the English mentality. Having gone abroad before to a foreign country and trying to adapt, I also understand the need to just talk with people of your own language/background in order to just unwind and talk without worrying about grammar or vocab.

That having been said, if I were to invest in a foreign country, you're damned right I'd want to make sure I knew at least a little bit of the language. If I'm to dump thousands, if not millions, of dollars into a foreign country, I would sure as hell not want to take just one person's word on what the laws, policies and habits of the native country there are. I wouldn't want to always rely on agents to do absolutely everything for me. I would want to keep an element of control and communication. It may only be me, but I like making social connections with those around me--from the same culture and mentality or not.



Interestingly enough, I agree with this point. People are free to do whatever they want with their money. I disagree, however, with the idea that rich people should not be taxed and should have no responsibility to the people below them. The idea behind reducing corporate tax rates and making it easier for businesses to make profits is that these profits will turn into jobs or raises which turn into more money--yet when the minimum wage is set to go up, several business owners complain that they cannot afford to pay their employees anymore, and the if people want to make more they should work harder.

Point being that while people will work harder to make themselves better off, they will generally not do things to help others unless forced or coerced (a good employee says "I'm gonna quit" and a raise is then offered).


Agreed. More than dollar amounts, livability indexes usually look at percentage of income spent on housing. An ideal amount is supposedly 30%, and we are...far from that.


When I first started teaching English, a really decently-sized chunk of them hate a real anger against English. English is everywhere in Asia, and I didn't really understand their anger until I took a quick trip to Korea on vacation. English is literally everywhere--I felt like I could live there without learning the language. And when I made that realization, I felt profoundly guilty. Certainly, the spread of English as a Lingua Franca has been helpful for the tourism industry worldwide (no matter where you go or what your native tongue is, chances are someone somewhere will speak some English) and an amazing coup for Cultural Imperialism. I honestly feel bad when I hear my students complain about The Foreign District, where all the white people live hiding in their little sheltered pocket of WhiteLand where they don't have to deal with the crazy foreigners who live in and are citizens of that country and who pay their salaries.

I really wish they'd pull their heads out of their holes and see the real world too.


My mom painted her house purple, blows out snot rockets while she gardens, and gets annoyingly loud when she has a glass of wine with her friends on the porch at night. Your point?



These points are valid but also have issues in and of themselves. How many people are employed by Porsche as salespeople? How will an increase of Porsche sales increase the pocketbook of the owners of the dealership and the salesperson. There will not be a huge boom in the number of Porsche mechanics, nor HR salespeople.

While lots of people are looking at the amount of money being spent in total, I am thinking more in terms of the way it's being spent. How many more jobs is Holt Renfrew creating because of the number of people spending their money there? How many more Real Estate agents have jobs because of this? What's the end result in the number of jobs created? Tax revenue is kind of moot when it goes back into EI Payments.


And lots of it is coming because of the housing bubble and subsequent increase of the Canadian dollar relative to the US dollar. Also, see below:

(thanks man!)


Unfortunately, it's true that many people who leave Canada or the US or England never bother to truly adjust to their new home-country. "American schools" and "European schools", however....that's something quite different. Most of them are actually termed "International schools", and a good number of them are mostly funded by people who live in and were born in whichever country it is in. A former coworker of mine's father was a Consul for the American Embassy in Brazil. His father was to be stationed there for only two years, and so trying to get an education for 2 years in full Portugese would have been highly impractical. The International school he attended was for foreign diplomats' children, and RIDICULOUSLY rich locals. When I say ridiculously, I mean "booking a whole club on a saturday night for the whole night just for a 15-year-old-girl and her classmates" ridiculous. These people sent their children to these schools because they acknowledged that English is the Lingua Franca and trade language, and that the name brand of an Ivy League or Oxford/Cambridge-type University is invaluable when determining a person's future--and the only way you can go to one of those is if you are educated in and speak English. Certainly, we as English native speakers have a massive advantage over foreigners, which is why only the ridcu-rich can send their children there.


As far as Chinese schools...it's interesting you should mention that. Burnaby (SD41 for those who are interested) has recently started a pilot Mandarin Immersion program for students. Not for students who speak Chinese at home, but for non-chinese-speaking families who want to give their children a leg up on what may be the next big Lingua Franca.

You might think Canadians don't give China and Mandarin the hueg mad props it deserves, and you may be right. But the times are a'changin' both here and there--and everywhere really. It's all just a question of who benefits now and in the future.

Even China is, ironically, trying to become more socialist to ease the tensions between classes. Tax the wealthy and give to the classes below them to provide better social mobility. There's a saying in Chinese (and other languages I'm sure), that wealth or poverty doesn't stay with a family for more than 2 generations. I tend to think it may be more true about wealth than poverty in that it's way harder to climb out of a family in poverty these days than to keep oneself rich from your elder's works. That's why the social system should be there to provide equal education for kids so that people start more or less on equal footing. But then of course you get private schools where wealthy families' kids can mingle and use their connections better than say a poor group of families' kids who can mingle but not do much; a wealthy kid who owns a store meets another who owns another store and they realize they can rig the prices by creating an agreed monopoly while two poor kids with no family background can.... decide to sniff gasoline together after class... So no matter what you do in a "free" society, you can't prevent the rich from spending their money on what they want to buy and pay for.

Regarding FDIs in China, they are very tightly controlled. For real estate, they make foreigners jump through tons of hoops to even purchase one. The factories that the others were talking about I think are the ones that operated sweat shops in China. But then again a lot of Americans were ripped off in the 90s and early 2000s because no one understood the culture and exposed themselves to thieves who can speak English. So I'm not sure if's karma regarding Americans setting up factories and such.

Regarding the learning of English in Canada, that's the whole thing I hate about the mainland culture. It's just about the money and privilege but never about improving yourself as a person. We were brought up to do and learn new things, they just want to buy new things and be seen doing it and be done with it without any extra effort (human nature though I guess to take path of least resistance). Everything's so superficial; being in China I meet lots of returnees who studied university and I smile with a seething anger underneath when they can call themselves the same thing as I but can't speak a word of English which damages my reputation. It's like how dare you call yourself an overseas educated Chinese? You just took a vacation for 4 years on parents' hard or not so hard earned money. And then when we all go apply for jobs, I get skeptical HR guys rolling their eyes at another "overseas educated" guy.

[bing]

Originally Posted by Graeme S

What you're looking at is the Government revenue side of things. Having lived below the poverty line, the statement you're making with this rant is very much a "let them eat cake" one. $80 is enough for me to buy meat for a month. Costco Chicken and Beef, bagged and frozen and I have enough meat to last me for a month. That means I can eat so I have enough energy to get through work without running out of energy and feeling exhausted.

First off I do appreciate your reply and you giving me your point of view. I guess to people who aren't as fortunate, it's considered a slap in the face. I am taking a wild guess that the HST rebate was given to everyone instead of selectively because of equity and political reasons since the government is having difficulty getting the public to support the HST. I think that they were giving different rebate amounts depending on your income bracket. Can anyone chime in?

Originally Posted by Graeme S

You may claim that the social system breeds laziness but I'm not so sure that's true. If the social system is so good, what makes you want to keep working? Why do you not just sit there and leech off welfare? I can list several reasons: Pride. Dreams for the future. Desire for goods. A desire to make yourself something bigger than you are, or to build something for future generations.

It's probably not true for most people, and using me was a bad example. I am specifically targeting those that are already on welfare and don't have any incentive to improve their situation by finding work. In the past, I knew of two people who stayed on welfare the whole time (10+ years and probably still are) and never looked for work legitimately using excuses to justify staying lazy. They were fine living off the government checks as long as it could pay the rent and food. Things would be different if they didn't get to eat if they didn't work. Just look at countries that don't have any social system support and you may see what I mean. I am not saying dismantle it, just that it promotes a degree of laziness.

[sundance1911]

Originally Posted by Apparition

that's the whole thing I hate about the mainland culture. It's just about the money and privilege but never about improving yourself as a person.

If you think money and privilege is mainland culture, you are way too shallow.

China has got 5000 years of history, culture and civilization, and the recent capitalism in China has only happened for just 30 years, theres way, way more to China than just that.

[Z3guy]

Originally Posted by willystyle

Alot of Chinese investors that I know of don't reside in Vancouver after they purchase properties here. They basically come here, snatch up a few properties, then they go back to their homeland. Maybe visit once or twice a year here.

Vancouver basically serves as a hub for them to hide their money, now I'm not saying that all of them are like that, but a lot of them are. Therefore, I don't think that equates to them supporting our economy by luxury cars, meals, groceries, and other goods and entertainment cause they don't live here. Everyone pays property tax as long as you own property. Rental income can heavily be under the table, so therefore untaxed.

The modern day wealthy Chinese are very patriotic, they know it's the same government, and economy that got them rich. They would care less about getting a Canadian citizenship, cause then they would need to give up their Chinese citizenship.

The China Chinese are very patriotic as long as the Govt give them benefits over the next family. I am sure they wouldn't be that patriotic when the govt/army take their land, business, and money. There is a reason the China chinese are buying here.....to take their money outside China and hedge their bets if the Govt decided to crack down.

Are you fucking nuts? do you really think people in China would be rather have a China passport Vs a Cdn passport? Dictator/Communism Vs Democratic Society?...tought choice

[Z3guy]

Originally Posted by Graeme S

[COLOR="Red"][B][I]TL;DR:
My mom painted her house purple, blows out snot rockets while she gardens, and gets annoyingly loud when she has a glass of wine with her friends on the porch at night. Your point?



.

My point? your mom should take some etiquette lessons. That might be OK in Asia, but fucking digusting from any developed country standards. Does that answer your question?

[Greenstoner]

this is just a trend....

had a chat with family's friend who moved to canada 45 years ago, he said roughly 20 years ago many people who immigrant from HongKong were going door to door and ask the owner if they can buy their home with cash at above market value.

[willystyle]

Originally Posted by Z3guy

The China Chinese are very patriotic as long as the Govt give them benefits over the next family. I am sure they wouldn't be that patriotic when the govt/army take their land, business, and money.

What factual evidence do you have to support that the current Chinese government will take their land, business, and money?

Sir, the Chinese Cultural Revolution was 40 years ago. I suggest you do a bit more reading on modern day China.

There is a reason the China chinese are buying here.....to take their money outside China and hedge their bets if the Govt decided to crack down.

I believe I have made that point in one of my previous posts. Thanks for re-iterating.

Are you fucking nuts? do you really think people in China would be rather have a China passport Vs a Cdn passport? Dictator/Communism Vs Democratic Society?...tought choice

There is so much wrong in this comment that I don't even know where to begin.

[stewie]

Originally Posted by parm104

‎"Three solutions to every problem: Accept it, change it leave it. If you can't accept it, change it. If you can't change it, leave it."

i say change it then.


make a law like some other places have(i think thailand does this? not sure though) and apply them here: if your not a canadian citizen or married to one, you cannot buy property here.

[Graeme S]

Originally Posted by sundance1911

Graeme, well written and I agree with most of what you said. If there are more people like you and less people bitching about, the world would become a much better place.

I'm curious what parts of what I said you agreed with; most of what I said was actually quite contrary to how you expressed your opinions.

Originally Posted by observer

Think ESL school teachers, think Richmond restaurant servers, think T&T cashiers, think language school administrative staff members, think all small and middle size businesses supported by new immigrants, think the amount of money the 30,000 Chinese immigrants bring.

Language schools, and small businesses absolutely. I admit that there are a TON of businesses that have been started by and for immigrants, and that this has generated a great deal of employment. I take issue with the rationalization that the purchase of a proportionally larger amount of highly-expensive luxury goods is in and of itself a reasonable justification for a massive influx of individuals who can cause an increase in cost of living for things like rent and the purchase of housing.

Originally Posted by bing

It's probably not true for most people, and using me was a bad example. I am specifically targeting those that are already on welfare and don't have any incentive to improve their situation by finding work. In the past, I knew of two people who stayed on welfare the whole time (10+ years and probably still are) and never looked for work legitimately using excuses to justify staying lazy. They were fine living off the government checks as long as it could pay the rent and food. Things would be different if they didn't get to eat if they didn't work. Just look at countries that don't have any social system support and you may see what I mean. I am not saying dismantle it, just that it promotes a degree of laziness.

I both agree and disagree with this statement. I'm a big proponent of legalizing and regulating pretty much all drugs on the same prinicple I'm there for leaving welfare in place--"Anyone who wants something bad enough will find a way". The more expensive things like education become, the more difficult it become for (for lack of a better term let's call them) "welfare children"; children whose parents have relied on welfare and government support for sustenance to the point where they will not or even cannot get a job (How many people would employ a person who hasn't had a job in 10 years a job.). If we don't provide a ladder at some point, these people will just dig themselves into deeper and deeper holes.

Would you rather pay for these people through tax and welfare, or through ICBC premiums and deductibles?

Originally Posted by sundance1911

If you think money and privilege is mainland culture, you are way too shallow.

China has got 5000 years of history, culture and civilization, and the recent capitalism in China has only happened for just 30 years, theres way, way more to China than just that.

True. But when people talk about "Mainlanders", they're not talking about the people who are fully aware of and take glory in their 5,000 year history of technological and sociological development and innovation. From what I understand, the issue is with the "new money". And generally speaking, new money regardless of what country it's from, has an implicit lack of class. Just ask the Brits and other Europeans how they feel about the Russian new money.

Originally Posted by Z3guy

My point? your mom should take some etiquette lessons. That might be OK in Asia, but fucking digusting from any developed country standards. Does that answer your question?

Sorry, I'm not sure if I made it totally clear: my mom is white, just like I am. The point I was trying to make is that developed country or not it gets to a point where old people just sort of stop caring. They're old. They don't give a shit.

[parm104]

Originally Posted by stewie

i say change it then.


make a law like some other places have(i think thailand does this? not sure though) and apply them here: if your not a canadian citizen or married to one, you cannot buy property here.

This thread is SO off-topic, it's not even funny. People come in here and read the last post made by someone and the elaborate or argue on that issue to the point where it becomes irrelevant to the original issue at hand...

Why is this about people's manners or behaviors? Why is this thread becoming about changing people's mannerisms? We went from having a group of people upset about the fact that housing in our fine city is unfordable and blaming it on the fact that rich buyers, not locally but from overseas are coming in and creating an inflation in these prices because of their demand...The original thread topic wasn't about whether rich people in general caused inflation, it was DIRECTLY in relation to "Mainlanders" coming in and creating this inflation and how it is unfair for non-Canadians to create a burden on Canadians in their own country...

As I mentioned before, I understand people's concerns and their frustrations are reasonable. But also as I said before, blaming "non-Canadians" is simply a scapegoat for the turmoil faced by our current middle-class economy. If not wealthy Asian's purchasing this property, there will be wealthy Canadians who will do so, and in fact are doing so. Also, if the tables were turned, and you were instead an owner of one of these properties and had a prospective buyer who wanted to give you above market-value for it, would you turn them down? Of course not!

As far taxation, even though it is off-topic as well, I don't see the debate over who should be taxed and who should be given refunds. The larger your income, the more you are taxed. The greater amount of property you own, the more you are text. The more extravagant goods you buy, the more money you give to the government. It is all proportional. There are luxury taxes for vehicles, there are premium taxes for large residential properties and their are commercial taxes for business properties...Everything is proportionately paid out by the wealthy to the government. That being said, these people are just as entitled to refunds as anyone else. People on this thread think that wealthy people are putting in the same amount of money as everyone else into the government...That simply isn't true and is absurd to even think so. So how does it logically make sense that wealthy people pay more taxes for their more expensive goods AND get penalized by not receiving the same tax breaks at the end of the year as everyone else?? So long as they are paying their PROPORTIONAL, EQUAL SHARE of taxes, which they generally are, they are entitled legally and morally to the same $80 (example) that everyone else gets as a refund. Any other discussion about corporate expenditures/tax-breaks is simply off-topic from the original issue at hand...

[Apparition]

Originally Posted by sundance1911

If you think money and privilege is mainland culture, you are way too shallow.

China has got 5000 years of history, culture and civilization, and the recent capitalism in China has only happened for just 30 years, theres way, way more to China than just that.

I'm living in that 5000 years old culture right now in Yixing, Jiangsu, China and so far I've clocked about 70,000 kms on my car to Anhui and Henan and not the mention the numerous visits to Shenzhen and Dongguan and Guangzhou. The cultural revolution that taught sons to be paranoid about their fathers and brothers to be hateful of any siblings with "counter revolutionary ideas" completely reversed said 5000 years of history.

When you see 7 series running red lights and S classes illegally parked with cops not daring to give a damn, where's the 5000 years of history and class? Gone.

When you get people who get offended when you try to tell them how to smoke a Cohiba properly (which you provided, by the way) and think because they got money, they don't need to listen to anyone and just do things their way, where's that 5000 years of culture? Gone.

Gone are the days when my parents taught us business should be done with dignity and humility. Now, the more you brag, the better car you buy with the freebie business loans from China banks, the more successful you will be.

I'm also frustrated at the disappearence of that 5000 years of history. Hopefully this trend is only limited to cities; in the rural areas, people are generally friendly. On the way to find a supplier in northern Jiangsu, I stopped at a Church to take some pictures. At first the people immediately ran out and asked me why I'm taking pictures and I told them I'm Canadian and just wanted to share the area with my friends back home. They were pretty hostile up to that point and very exceptionally friendly afterwards but you can see why the paranoia from government can destroy 5000 years of customs.

[Apparition]

Originally Posted by Z3guy

The China Chinese are very patriotic as long as the Govt give them benefits over the next family. I am sure they wouldn't be that patriotic when the govt/army take their land, business, and money. There is a reason the China chinese are buying here.....to take their money outside China and hedge their bets if the Govt decided to crack down.

Are you fucking nuts? do you really think people in China would be rather have a China passport Vs a Cdn passport? Dictator/Communism Vs Democratic Society?...tought choice

Actually, depends. A few well off mainlanders I know are now telling others to first get Hong Kong residency first before applying for overseas passport. Right now, they gave up their Chinese passport and everytime they come back to China to do their business making money, the need to apply and wait for a visitor visa from China. On the other hand, if you got HK residency first with their passport (like myself), you can get a "China Return Pass" when going to China and you don't have to give up your HK residency when you become a Canadian citizen. Up till last year (or was it earlier this year?) if you as a mainlander buy and hold a 6mil HKD property or stocks on the HK exchange, you're elligible for residency.

[Nightwalker]

Originally Posted by parm104

Really? Let's see what Border Services says about that proposal? Overworked as they already are, do you think they want more people illegally taking advantage of Canadians here so they can gain a right to own property? How many sham marriages will take place just so people can make an investment in this country?

There are already enough of these problems with immigration, people taking advantage of guys and girls here proposing a marriage and then divorcing them once they become citizens...

I for one would rather have people take advantage of a system than to take advantage of OTHER people directly...

That's the worst argument for anything I could ever think of.

A law will mean someone will have to enforce it, boo hoo!

[Apparition]

Originally Posted by willystyle

What factual evidence do you have to support that the current Chinese government will take their land, business, and money?

Sir, the Chinese Cultural Revolution was 40 years ago. I suggest you do a bit more reading on modern day China.


I believe I have made that point in one of my previous posts. Thanks for re-iterating.


There is so much wrong in this comment that I don't even know where to begin.

About government taking lands, it still happens unfortunately (and I'm not a China basher, on the contrary I'm mostly the devil's advocate when it comes to people and friends making negative comments about China). But take their land yes, compensate them, most of the time. China is such a large place that the central gov or the "Feds" aren't everywhere to enforce fairness. In a lot of rural areas, outsider rich guys come in with money and bribe the local officials to look the other way or even help with their police to move people out of the way for a construction project. The Feds are afraid of this getting out of hand but there's only so much they can do; it's a complicated symbiotic relationship between the Feds and the locals on how they do business with each other and the people they're supposed to look after. In a way, this prevents "not in my back yard" thinking like in North America which can block developments which is good, but sooner or later, China will have to develop a more democratic approach to land ownership (not many people OWN land in China, just years you rent it from the government).