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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
I for the longest time thought the government should tax or put an amount for new immigrants when buying new properties especially the once high end luxury homes that now are almost impossible for even locals to purchase or even bother trying to purchase.
The gov't just wants the money. They don't care if you're white or brown, or your eyes are round or slanted. All they care about is the red, blue, and purple dollars that flow from immigrants pockets.
The question is, is this right or wrong?
Is it my "right" to own lower mainland property just because my parents fucked here and it's where I was born? Or have we been left behind by the rest of the world because of our own protectionist leanings over the last 35 years?
When it was easy to get into University, were our parents there?
No. They got jobs at Safeway for $28/hr, or Revenue Canada. So in effect we were raised by people who didn't put in the effort. As such, it's inevitable that we're going to be railroaded by rich immigrants who were raised on the concept of hard work. The truth is, we as a Canadian society should have worked harder in order to keep this great place that we live in. But hey, we have union protection, MW3 on XBOX live, and cheap beer...
I can get a 55 pack of cans in Quebec Costco for $50. Meanwhile a 12 pack here costs $22, and I haven't seen a 24 or 36 of bottles in most Liquor Stores... yet I wouldn't want to know how much that would cost.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taylor192
Beer is not cheap in BC
I can get a 55 pack of cans in Quebec Costco for $50. Meanwhile a 12 pack here costs $22, and I haven't seen a 24 or 36 of bottles in most Liquor Stores... yet I wouldn't want to know how much that would cost.
What was the topic again? Got distracted by beer.
To give you some idea and so Hypa can see your post.
MOLSON - CANADIAN CAN30 PK
Price: $ 52.99 Volume: 30x355 mL
Why shouldn't knowing the language of the country you're moving to be an issue? If I decide I'm going to move to Italy, I'm not going to expect their government bend over backwards to help me through everything simply because I can't be bothered to learn Italian. At the bare minimum, I'd try to learn at least enough to be able to get by in case I get lost at the airport or something. Moving to a new country with no knowledge of their official languages just doesn't seem right, nor fair.
why do you need to learn it when u live in burnaby and richmond. You can shop at T&T, Aberdeen, and TD bank speaking only chinese. Whats the big deal? Is it their fault that TD bank and Autowest bmw or richmond Honda has people who speaks chinese?
There is a law in the Philippines and Thailand that only residents of their given countries can own land. This is to enable to that citizens of that country to be able to afford their house prices.
If that law was in effect here; only people living in Canada could purchase houses thus lowering prices. Hopefully...
1)look at philippine and thailand, what kind of country they are compare to canada.
Would you want to buy a house there and live if you have money?
2) Do you really think for a second that if only canadians can buy canadian land, our reality price would be down? Are you assuming local canadians don't invest in housing and grow rich?
why do you need to learn it when u live in burnaby and richmond. You can shop at T&T, Aberdeen, and TD bank speaking only chinese. Whats the big deal? Is it their fault that TD bank and Autowest bmw or richmond Honda has people who speaks chinese?
No, but at the very least they should have a basic understanding of english and not depend on their socio-culutral environment to provide them with a langauge safe-heaven. Athough I believe people should keep their country of origin close to their hearts, do not transform the surrounding environment to some strange ex-pat mini-nation with their own biases.
For example, When I was working retail twice customers would come up to me asking if I spoke chinese. When I indicated to them I could not the customer literally said he felt sorry for me and walked away .
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wasabisashimi
1)look at philippine and thailand, what kind of country they are compare to canada.
Would you want to buy a house there and live if you have money?
2) Do you really think for a second that if only canadians can buy canadian land, our reality price would be down? Are you assuming local canadians don't invest in housing and grow rich?
Yes Canadian do invest but there are a lot of money in the housing market that isn't Canadian. I think the Gov should track where the money comes from and is it illegal.
There should be laws to clearly know where the money comes from. We all know there are tons of illegal money being pour into our country and that needs to stop.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsunu
No, but at the very least they should have a basic understanding of english and not depend on their socio-culutral environment to provide them with a langauge safe-heaven. Athough I believe people should keep their country of origin close to their hearts, do not transform the surrounding environment to some strange ex-pat mini-nation with their own biases.
For example, When I was working retail twice customers would come up to me asking if I spoke chinese. When I indicated to them I could not the customer literally said he felt sorry for me and walked away .
LOL same thing I literally told them I don't speak Chinese. I am sorry but if you came to canada learn some basic English so you could at least get your way around. Don't expect the store to have people who speaks Chinese as it is some kind of right.
I especially hate it when Chinese people wants something cheaper and try to speak Chinese to you and keep saying "Cheaper" Sorry this isn't China pay the price on the tag or gtfo
why do you need to learn it when u live in burnaby and richmond. You can shop at T&T, Aberdeen, and TD bank speaking only chinese. Whats the big deal? Is it their fault that TD bank and Autowest bmw or richmond Honda has people who speaks chinese?
This is essentially the equivalent of saying "But the guy before me didn't have to do it, why should I?" You're not wrong, you don't NEED English to live there. Nor do you need English to live in Burquitlam if you can speak Korean. Nor do you need English in Surrey if you can speak Punjabi.
But let's look at it now; we've isolated several sections of Vancouver away from each other and essentially said "If you live here and only here you can survive as though it were your own country." So what happened to becoming Canadian? What you're talking about is about creating cultural enclaves--where you can live somewhere without ever being exposed to other cultures if you don't really want to. But is that becoming Canadian, or just owning property in Canada?
This is essentially the equivalent of saying "But the guy before me didn't have to do it, why should I?" You're not wrong, you don't NEED English to live there. Nor do you need English to live in Burquitlam if you can speak Korean. Nor do you need English in Surrey if you can speak Punjabi.
But let's look at it now; we've isolated several sections of Vancouver away from each other and essentially said "If you live here and only here you can survive as though it were your own country." So what happened to becoming Canadian? What you're talking about is about creating cultural enclaves--where you can live somewhere without ever being exposed to other cultures if you don't really want to. But is that becoming Canadian, or just owning property in Canada?
True, but most of the times, these are older generations, like 55-70 yrs old indian or chinese grandma. I think it will be very hard to even try to learn English aside from greetings or counting number. Its obviously easier to hide in richmond, delta or Burnaby area.
Side note, Elections are around the corner, Most politicians' compaign signage have their names translated into Chinese characters....... Don't you guys fun this very funny?
True, but most of the times, these are older generations, like 55-70 yrs old indian or chinese grandma. I think it will be very hard to even try to learn English aside from greetings or counting number. Its obviously easier to hide in richmond, delta or Burnaby area.
True, but we're not talking about the Grandmothers and Grandfathers who come WITH the immigrant families and who make the decisions; we're talking about the ones who actively choose to bring their families (with children and parents) to a nation in which they would not be able to survive if they moved out of these so-called enclaves. I have large and separate issues with your choice of wording and the idea of needing to "hide" within one's own culture...but whatever. Another debate for another time.
My issue is not with the dependents, it's with the decision-makers.
vancouver will be always be one of the top cities of the world and there's never gonna be progress and development anywhere, if there's no survival of the fittest.
you're probably a 100x better than SOME of these spoiled brats who just come and spend money which origins are unclear hahaha. you're working hard and going to universities, but at the end of the day, money talks,
and right now, vancouver's sayin:
"i don't under'stand language of people wit' short money" - mase
sure the rich foreigners are purchasing everything, why? cause NO ONE else is.
everyone's waiting for the market to cool down, but it's never gonna happen. vancouver is an attractive investment/home to the rest of the world, cause while it has so many things we see as bullshit, those exact same reasons are why they wanna go there to live.
no fun? = security, peace & quiet. you want fun? go to vegas, amsterdam, ibiza.. vancouver just confirmed why there's no fun with the recent riot. the government spends millions of dollars to throw that party downtown and look what happened. don't give me that bullshit about "almost all of the suspects aren't even from vancouver." last time i checked, suburbs are part of a city, and not classified as their own city.
expensive high standard of living = i miss paying a more for quality and competence. yea, i'm paying less for gas in vietnam, but guess what, i'm filling up my car with 95, but i need to get a new fuel pump and possibly a new fuel injection system cause the gas is shit here.
more taxes = oh well, at least there's free healthcare and education that's world class. at least roads are drive-able and all your water & electrical utilities are stable. something you guys take for granted. go live in viet nam to know what i'm talking about. i sorta miss paying taxes for things worthwhile.
i feel you guys regarding the difficulties in finding a good job in van, that's why i'm working in viet nam for now, when i get enough capital, i'm definitely gonna be returning to van to build a great property portfolio. oh, and i'll help you guys with the winter olympic payments too, even though i didn't even get to enjoy it haha
stop complaining and work harder, or go move to the prairies if you're seriously not appreciating how good you have it in vancouver.
Merrill: ‘classic bubble’ signs in Canadian housing market
STEVE LADURANTAYE
Globe and Mail Blog
Posted on Monday, December 19, 2011 11:40AM EST
Canada’s housing market shows the “classic signs of over valuation, speculation and over supply,” but Bank of America Merrill Lynch says that’s no reason to think that there will be an epic crash of American proportions.
In a report issued Monday, the bank’s Canadian analysts said record Canadian household debt and increased joblessness are cause for concern over the next year. There will likely be fewer sales, and prices could slip as much as 5 per cent in the next year.
“Canadian home prices set new highs in 2011 and are now showing many of the signs of a classic bubble,” they wrote. “We estimate the housing market nationwide is about 10 per cent over valued. Even so, the only way these valuations can be explained is by the record low mortgage rates. Under more normalized interest rates, home prices would actually look 25 per cent overvalued based on current prices.”
Best case scenario
“We expect housing investment to contract about 5 per cent in the first half of 2012 as the economy flirts with recession, and housing starts to trend down to more normal levels by the end of 2012. While single-family home construction has already landed softly below its long-run average, the condo market has surged back to previous highs. We expect most of the weakness in housing construction to come from a pull back in the multi-unit segment, with the risks of a harder landing very elevated. Home prices will likely contract slightly in the first half of 2012 as housing demand slows on tougher jobs and income growth environment, but end the year flat as economic activity accelerates in the back half of the year.”
Worst case scenario
“Under the more adverse scenario outlined in our economics year ahead, the Canadian housing market would likely experience a hard landing as it is highly leveraged to jobs and income growth. Moreover, the household balance sheet is stretched and highly susceptible to adverse shocks. A spike in the unemployment rate would certainly lead to a pull-back in credit demand and leave the multi-unit market significantly over supplied. This market would also likely result in a rise in delinquencies and forced selling, which would see homes prices decline by around 10 per cent.”
Condo crisis?
“What drives the housing cycle up, inevitably drives the market down as well. Builders in the multi-unit segment are currently responding to elevated home prices and robust pre-construction sales. Anecdotal evidence suggests the vast majority of pre-construction sales are to investors who intend to sell the units on completion or rent them out. As these condos in the construction pipeline are completed, this inventory of units will be dumped on to the rental and/or re-sale market just as sales momentum and housing demand ebbs. Our estimates indicate there will not be enough renters in Toronto to occupy these units as they are completed. As a result, some investors will be left holding vacant units. Since most investors are unlikely to hold onto negative-carry investments without a reasonable prospect of price appreciation; this will put downward pressure on home prices. We have already seen this dynamic play out in some smaller markets on Canada’s west coast where prices have corrected 15 per cent.”
Vancouver is the most expensive city on the North American continent.
Vancouver is now more expensive to live in than New York, Los Angeles, or Chicago.
So since the new year I have someone leaving me a note every 2 weeks in my mailbox reading "I'm interested in purchasing homes in your area, please call me". I feel like calling and giving the person some insane price just to see if he/she will bite. It's getting a bit insane in Vancouver.
So since the new year I have someone leaving me a note every 2 weeks in my mailbox reading "I'm interested in purchasing homes in your area, please call me". I feel like calling and giving the person some insane price just to see if he/she will bite. It's getting a bit insane in Vancouver.
2) Do you really think for a second that if only canadians can buy canadian land, our reality price would be down? Are you assuming local canadians don't invest in housing and grow rich?
do i think it would go down in price? yes, slightly, there wouldnt be as many people wanting or able to buy property so sooner or later prices will go down. im sure theres hundreds of thousands of canadians who invest in housing, but at least making it so only canadian citizens can buy property will slow down and lower the housing market...if an immigrant would like to buy property, rent for a few years, become an actual citizen and take a citizenship test or whatever it is they do, and then they're free to do as they wish.
Seriously, I know taylor192 had previously rebutted my comment weeks ago that the market was in a slump, but my buddy's parents put their West Van house up several weeks ago for $3. something and it sold for $4.
Another friend in Richmond sold his apartment and got 3 bids that were higher than his asking price.
I've also heard from parents' friends in Richmond and Vancouver who, like the above guy, get letters in the mail asking to sell their property.
Another girl who bought her own place in Burnaby somehow had her home # obtained from a Chinese realtor? who calls every couple of months to make an offer on the home.
I haven't seen the stats myself which show that the vancouver market is in a slump, but from my regular observations of single detached homes in richmond and vancouver on MLS.ca, I really don't see it dropping off at all.
Seriously, I know taylor192 had previously rebutted my comment weeks ago that the market was in a slump, but my buddy's parents put their West Van house up several weeks ago for $3. something and it sold for $4.
Another friend in Richmond sold his apartment and got 3 bids that were higher than his asking price.
I've also heard from parents' friends in Richmond and Vancouver who, like the above guy, get letters in the mail asking to sell their property.
Another girl who bought her own place in Burnaby somehow had her home # obtained from a Chinese realtor? who calls every couple of months to make an offer on the home.
I haven't seen the stats myself which show that the vancouver market is in a slump, but from my regular observations of single detached homes in richmond and vancouver on MLS.ca, I really don't see it dropping off at all.
i know this won't be a popular answer to people's view - but imagine this.
housing is a financing decision, you can rent or buy a house in any area in any neighbourhood in vancouver, so let's consider the following:
sell your house to some chinese (or other) buyer at today's price, take your profits and invest them in dividned paying equities or AA corporate debt paying you between 5 and 12% (remember that you get favourable tax treatment from dividends) - also consider some of these equities, over the long term will increase in value (if you pick right - you can always get a 'professional' to do this for you, but its not that hard, to be honest) - or better yet, buy property in the US which provides 8-11% yield and will provide some very good capital appreciation - more than we'll see in vancouver over the next 10 years (again, if you know and what to buy, which i do)
use the cash flow from your investments to cover your rent - TRUST ME, unless you bought ages ago (in which case you'll realize a honking tax free gain), your rent will be WAY less than ownership costs - outside of Canada, this isn't a normal thing, there is usually a small ownership premium as you gain access to any capital appreciation (and on the flipside any downside risk), but NOTHING compared to vancouver
that's what i would do - now, admitidly, i don't own in vancouver, i'm relatively young and spent MANY years in education so i wasn't in a position to buy 10 years ago or even 5 years ago - i could easily afford to buy today, but i choose not to, as it is a financing decision, and i put my money where I get better cashflow (or actual cash flow rent + invest vs. buy + own) and better capital appreciation over the long term (diversified equities and US real estate)
Now, I personally believe we are at or near the peak of prices for a couple of reasons:
1) interest rates (borrowing costs) CANNOT get any lower - therefore, there is only 1 way up for ownership costs, up, which means there will be downward pressure on prices
2) 30 year mortgage amortization is likely going to be killed to cool off real estate prices (this may or may not happen, i expect it will, if the fed gov has 2 braincells between them)
3)Canada, especially Vancovuer, has increasing unemployment - this is worrying for real estate, and is tied to my next point (locals driving true prices)
4) investors, long term, CANNOT increase prices, they can provide a base and take up slack in inventory, but they cannot and will not drive up prices, I am seeing this in certain markets in the US where I invest - so while there will be some chinese buyers paying cash for $5M properties in vancouver, given that average prices in vancouver are nearer $1M it tells me that the $5M proeprties are in teh minority - they get all the attention, but the true driver of real estate prices are locals and if unemployment continues to rise (Whcih i fear it will here), people will stop being able to afford their proeprties AND when interest rates go up on mortgages, affordability will decrease, meaning locals will be less willing to pay so much
please also note here that those who think 'well why are the chinese buying' they're often buying just to get their money out of china where it is MUCH MUCH safer here (our laws dictate that safety for their capital) - it is not an 'investment' as us 'locals' would consider it, they see it as a way to secure their money from teh chinese government. hell, some of it is ill gotten gains (the same is true for some locals too), but intentions are not teh same as if someone like me were to invest, i know my capital is safe from any governmetn intervention, so i invest it accordingly
i don't want to hear 'vancouver is different' 'the chinese are buying up vancouver' - these sayings are met with a blank look from me - Vancouver is a beautiful place, but economics doesn't pass over special and pretty places, tehy can be offside in the short term, but the invsible and quite magical forces of economics (affordability indicators such as price as a multiple of earnings and price to rental ratios) eventually come 'in line' with historical rates - unless we suddenly find we're sitting on a trillion barrels of crude (and how i wish that were true!)
i'm sorry if the above is too logical to most people, but high vancouver prices are nothing to get worked up about - just take your money elsewhere and you'll end up in a MUCH better position than if you buy here now, or so i believe & act
^ Question: Would corporate debt not have the same sort of interest rate risk as govt bonds? In other words, it would be wise to get into corporate debt only if you plan to hold until maturity, given rates can only go up. This is especially relevant if you're looking at the higher yielding long term corporate bonds.
I don't do this for a living, so it's hard to get the analysis and the strategy down precisely. Hopefully, you can add some insight.
i know this won't be a popular answer to people's view - but imagine this.
housing is a financing decision, you can rent or buy a house in any area in any neighbourhood in vancouver, so let's consider the following:
sell your house to some chinese (or other) buyer at today's price, take your profits and invest them in dividned paying equities or AA corporate debt paying you between 5 and 12% (remember that you get favourable tax treatment from dividends) - also consider some of these equities, over the long term will increase in value (if you pick right - you can always get a 'professional' to do this for you, but its not that hard, to be honest) - or better yet, buy property in the US which provides 8-11% yield and will provide some very good capital appreciation - more than we'll see in vancouver over the next 10 years (again, if you know and what to buy, which i do)
use the cash flow from your investments to cover your rent - TRUST ME, unless you bought ages ago (in which case you'll realize a honking tax free gain), your rent will be WAY less than ownership costs - outside of Canada, this isn't a normal thing, there is usually a small ownership premium as you gain access to any capital appreciation (and on the flipside any downside risk), but NOTHING compared to vancouver
that's what i would do - now, admitidly, i don't own in vancouver, i'm relatively young and spent MANY years in education so i wasn't in a position to buy 10 years ago or even 5 years ago - i could easily afford to buy today, but i choose not to, as it is a financing decision, and i put my money where I get better cashflow (or actual cash flow rent + invest vs. buy + own) and better capital appreciation over the long term (diversified equities and US real estate)
Now, I personally believe we are at or near the peak of prices for a couple of reasons:
1) interest rates (borrowing costs) CANNOT get any lower - therefore, there is only 1 way up for ownership costs, up, which means there will be downward pressure on prices
2) 30 year mortgage amortization is likely going to be killed to cool off real estate prices (this may or may not happen, i expect it will, if the fed gov has 2 braincells between them)
3)Canada, especially Vancovuer, has increasing unemployment - this is worrying for real estate, and is tied to my next point (locals driving true prices)
4) investors, long term, CANNOT increase prices, they can provide a base and take up slack in inventory, but they cannot and will not drive up prices, I am seeing this in certain markets in the US where I invest - so while there will be some chinese buyers paying cash for $5M properties in vancouver, given that average prices in vancouver are nearer $1M it tells me that the $5M proeprties are in teh minority - they get all the attention, but the true driver of real estate prices are locals and if unemployment continues to rise (Whcih i fear it will here), people will stop being able to afford their proeprties AND when interest rates go up on mortgages, affordability will decrease, meaning locals will be less willing to pay so much
please also note here that those who think 'well why are the chinese buying' they're often buying just to get their money out of china where it is MUCH MUCH safer here (our laws dictate that safety for their capital) - it is not an 'investment' as us 'locals' would consider it, they see it as a way to secure their money from teh chinese government. hell, some of it is ill gotten gains (the same is true for some locals too), but intentions are not teh same as if someone like me were to invest, i know my capital is safe from any governmetn intervention, so i invest it accordingly
i don't want to hear 'vancouver is different' 'the chinese are buying up vancouver' - these sayings are met with a blank look from me - Vancouver is a beautiful place, but economics doesn't pass over special and pretty places, tehy can be offside in the short term, but the invsible and quite magical forces of economics (affordability indicators such as price as a multiple of earnings and price to rental ratios) eventually come 'in line' with historical rates - unless we suddenly find we're sitting on a trillion barrels of crude (and how i wish that were true!)
i'm sorry if the above is too logical to most people, but high vancouver prices are nothing to get worked up about - just take your money elsewhere and you'll end up in a MUCH better position than if you buy here now, or so i believe & act
Sorry I disagree. Your comments are correct for many cities in the world, but I no longer think this applies to Vancouver or any other beautiful, desired city.
I have many friends in many cities around the world, and single property housing prices are skyrocketing due to the Mainland Chinese. Their increasing middle class and higher's new wealth has enabled them to leave China, and they are now buying up everything they see on the outside. This isn't Vancouver alone -- this is also Sydney, London, Singapore, and Hong Kong. The only reason they haven't gone crazy on the US is because its so difficult to obtain American citizenship -- ask any of your friends in Seattle/LA/SF and they'll tell you they haven't seen any crazy influx of China people.
The above comments on interest rates etc also are irrelevant -- these people don't come here and obtain mortgages. They come with at least $1.6M in liquid CDN cash, own companies abroad, and buy everything in cash without financing. Local employee-class people (not just here but other cities) are irrelevant because there's no way they can compete with entrepreneurs from emerging markets.
Bubbles also don't apply to highly desired locales -- London and NYC property levels dropped slightly in 2008 due to the crash, and by 2010 were already higher than before the crash.
In addition, it's not just the property they're buying up. I have friends in Paris, Lima, Nigeria, and Italy who tell me the same thing in emails. Mainland China investors saturating their job market with factories and hiring locals to outsource work that is fast becoming more pricey in China. These people have already forecast rising China wage levels, and have firmly outsourced China labor abroad.
According to the video vancouver has a low crime rate? Yet we are also the dumping ground for criminals from out east? How does that work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by niu99
UPDATE:
Vancouver is the most expensive city on the North American continent.
Vancouver is now more expensive to live in than New York, Los Angeles, or Chicago.
According to the video vancouver has a low crime rate? Yet we are also the dumping ground for criminals from out east? How does that work?
You would be suprised how many crimes that are committed that go unreported,if every single criminal act that happened in this city and people reported them,the stats would shoot through the roof in this city.
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