Mainland Chinese Buying West Van

[urban.boi]

stop complaining if you can't afford to buy a home. just work harder.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Manic!

You pay taxes until you die. You don't just stop paying taxes when you hit 65.

Just to clear it up, I don't think he meant you stop paying taxes after 65.

If you immigrate to Canada when you are say 50 years old, and die at 70, that is only 20 years of paying general tax. If this immigrant doesn't work because they don't need to, they don't pay any income tax and because they don't have any income, they can/may abuse our public social policies like income assistance, tax rebates, and medicare without contributing their fair share back into the system, while not being actually in need of these services due to their financial background.

Our parents who have grown up here, my generation who have grown up here, will be working and paying income tax plus general tax on say 40-50 years worth of work, and maybe another 20 years after we retired so we are paying 60-70 years worth of tax; we are contributing to these social systems which we will eventually need to use.

To everyone who just says "work harder to get what you want", I agree with you guys. But there comes a point regardless of how hard you work, you cannot catch up to the what foreign money (and drug money in Vancouver's case) has done to inflate the prices of different things. Those in our generation, and our parents, who were lucky enough to cash in on the real estate boom will be set for life (if the market doesn't fall out). At this rate, I feel bad for my future kids, I'm probably going to have to house them until they are 40 years old where they will then need to pay down their mortgage for the rest of their life.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by UFO

Just to clear it up, I don't think he meant you stop paying taxes after 65.

If you immigrate to Canada when you are say 50 years old, and die at 70, that is only 20 years of paying general tax. If this immigrant doesn't work because they don't need to, they don't pay any income tax and because they don't have any income, they can/may abuse our public social policies like income assistance, tax rebates, and medicare without contributing their fair share back into the system, while not being actually in need of these services due to their financial background.

Our parents who have grown up here, my generation who have grown up here, will be working and paying income tax plus general tax on say 40-50 years worth of work, and maybe another 20 years after we retired so we are paying 60-70 years worth of tax; we are contributing to these social systems which we will eventually need to use.

To everyone who just says "work harder to get what you want", I agree with you guys. But there comes a point regardless of how hard you work, you cannot catch up to the what foreign money (and drug money in Vancouver's case) has done to inflate the prices of different things. Those in our generation, and our parents, who were lucky enough to cash in on the real estate boom will be set for life (if the market doesn't fall out). At this rate, I feel bad for my future kids, I'm probably going to have to house them until they are 40 years old where they will then need to pay down their mortgage for the rest of their life.

Your paying 70 years of tax because you are living here for 70 years.

What about people who work and live in Ontario paying medical premiums all there lives but when they retire the move to B.C. Now they are using our hospitals and they have never paid medical premiums in B.C.

[parm104]

Originally Posted by Manic!

Your paying 70 years of tax because you are living here for 70 years.

What about people who work and live in Ontario paying medical premiums all there lives but when they retire the move to B.C. Now they are using our hospitals and they have never paid medical premiums in B.C.

EXACTLY! They are only paying 20 years of taxes because they're only living here for 20 years. Why should they pay a "premium tax" for not living here all their lives...I can't believe people are actually implying that immigrants should pay a higher amount of taxes because they haven't been living in Canada long enough to enjoy the freedoms and benefits of our country...Why don't be just bring back Chinese Head Tax?

[Elements604]

Work Harder or move somewhere else just seem like easy cop out answers for this diversification problem we have over here. Im lucky I am able to still work hard and afford something, but if the trend continues and real estate continues to skyrocket faster than wages; when will we reach a point when working hard doesn't work anymore?

There's poor people in many countries that work harder and longer hours all their lives and are not able to buy anything because the gap between the rich and the poor is so large.

I believe if we continue to let mostly one type and class of people to buy up all of Canada the same will happen here and the middle class will eventually disappear.

Moving somewhere else just seems like running away from the problem, eventually the problem will be so large and fast it wont matter where you run too.


What happened to Canada being about multiculturalism? When did we all decide it was ok to just let one class of people handle most of our land? This all seems great for the short economic term, but in the long term its welcome to Chinada.

[urban.boi]

middle class is already slowly disappearing in China/HK.

[Meowjin]

Originally Posted by apple_cutie

who the fuck is complaining?

Jesus fucking christ. I'm giving reasons why people (on rs) are not leaving.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by Elements604

Moving somewhere else just seems like running away from the problem.

But that's what this country was built on. People didn't move here for fun.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by parm104

EXACTLY! They are only paying 20 years of taxes because they're only living here for 20 years. Why should they pay a "premium tax" for not living here all their lives...I can't believe people are actually implying that immigrants should pay a higher amount of taxes because they haven't been living in Canada long enough to enjoy the freedoms and benefits of our country...Why don't be just bring back Chinese Head Tax?

You guys are not getting my point at all and perhaps I did not post it as clearly as it sounds to myself in my head. My issue is not with taxation, but immigrants PURPOSELY taking advantage the social systems we have set up in Canada for those who are less privileged and actually need these systems, which are paid for in majority by the middle working class. Maybe this is what you are calling "enjoying the freedoms and benefits of our country"

My case in point was already stated. Rich well off family receives a quarterly $80 GST rebate because their family income level is below whatever the standard is set at now. They drive a Bentley, Lambo, Cayenne, and the S600 is probably the winter beater. They most likely live in a balled out house in the high end of the city. Do they qualify for this rebate based on the established rules? Probably. Just because the rules say they qualify, does not mean they should be claiming everything they are 'entitled' to? If you are ok with this scenario, then I am out of word (sic)

[Graeme S]

Originally Posted by Elements604

Work Harder or move somewhere else just seem like easy cop out answers for this diversification problem we have over here. Im lucky I am able to still work hard and afford something, but if the trend continues and real estate continues to skyrocket faster than wages; when will we reach a point when working hard doesn't work anymore?

There's poor people in many countries that work harder and longer hours all their lives and are not able to buy anything because the gap between the rich and the poor is so large.

I believe if we continue to let mostly one type and class of people to buy up all of Canada the same will happen here and the middle class will eventually disappear.

Moving somewhere else just seems like running away from the problem, eventually the problem will be so large and fast it wont matter where you run too.

What happened to Canada being about multiculturalism? When did we all decide it was ok to just let one class of people handle most of our land? This all seems great for the short economic term, but in the long term its welcome to Chinada.

This is true and not at the same time. The reason that Canadians who have lived here for generations have our wealth is because our ancestors came here and settled on land that was much cheaper or more easily affordable to them with their resources (usually one or the other, sometimes both). This same thing is happening now, and it's just a continuation. The difference now is that not all people who are buying are living here, and not all people who buy, buy only house, and not all people who buy them rent them. I believe it was Great68 (I could be wrong) who talked a few years ago about his condo in Richmond that was sold out, but only about 30% occupied.

There are lots of issues with limiting who can own what and how much of it. As soon as you start making rules it becomes discriminatory. The prior example of Germany or Swizerland is kind of moot--smart local speculators would snap it up and resell within weeks for a small chunk more, or the buildings could be priced out of a typical local price range to wait for foreign speculators. And if they aren't bought by foreigners they might be flipped for a premium pushing the prices up even more.

There is no easy solution for this--vacancy taxes? If you don't rent an empty apartment, you'll be fined? How do you monitor what's rented on paper and what's rented in fact? Why do you punish someone who's bought a new house but hasn't sold their old one? There is no easy way out of it.

Originally Posted by parm104

EXACTLY! They are only paying 20 years of taxes because they're only living here for 20 years. Why should they pay a "premium tax" for not living here all their lives...I can't believe people are actually implying that immigrants should pay a higher amount of taxes because they haven't been living in Canada long enough to enjoy the freedoms and benefits of our country...Why don't be just bring back Chinese Head Tax?

My grandfather, recently deceased, spent the last five weeks of his life in hospital. Paid for by MSPs, which he had been paying for the entire time he had lived in BC; more than half a century. Let's assume that someone moves here from a foreign country at 50, and they are relatively healthy but over the course of their life end up hospitalized or going to specialists as referred through their GPs. You can apply for a BC Carecard after only 6 months of living here as long as your visa permits you to stay for 1 or more years. This means that after only six months of living here (and possibly a 3-month wait period while they process your application and wait for your card), you can get health care at a very high discount; close to free.

This is not fair, but this is not the fault of immigrants or people coming to Canada to live. This is a problem with the system, and it is something that needs to be dealt with at a systemic level rather than thinking of it as a "foreigner" problem. These kinds of lupolls make me wander why politicians don't work harder to close them for all taxpayers' sakes.

Originally Posted by urban.boi

middle class is already slowly disappearing in China/HK.

How do you feel about that? As the middle class disappears, so does the standard of living decrease for a larger and larger number of people. As we live in a socialist nation, it means that more and more people will end up using the social support system which is faced with decreasing resources as tax revenues come from a narrower and narrower band.

I'm all in favour for leaving the HST alone so that income tax on the lower brackets can come down proportionally. Much more equitable, I think. Shifts the burden of taxation to the purchasers of good rather than the low-income earners. Which isn't to say they pay a lot, but every little bit they can get taken off helps.





Please understand that I am not trying to say that people who were born her or lived here before are entitled to anything more than anyone else. Nor am I saying that foreigners are destroying Canada and raping what my forefathers built or had built for them. I am simply trying to say that in Vancouver the scales are currently totally moving out of whack because of changes in the demographics that are coming, both to live and invest.

[RiceIntegraRS]

Originally Posted by UFO

You guys are not getting my point at all and perhaps I did not post it as clearly as it sounds to myself in my head. My issue is not with taxation, but immigrants PURPOSELY taking advantage the social systems we have set up in Canada for those who are less privileged and actually need these systems, which are paid for in majority by the middle working class. Maybe this is what you are calling "enjoying the freedoms and benefits of our country"

My case in point was already stated. Rich well off family receives a quarterly $80 GST rebate because their family income level is below whatever the standard is set at now. They drive a Bentley, Lambo, Cayenne, and the S600 is probably the winter beater. They most likely live in a balled out house in the high end of the city. Do they qualify for this rebate based on the established rules? Probably. Just because the rules say they qualify, does not mean they should be claiming everything they are 'entitled' to? If you are ok with this scenario, then I am out of word (sic)

I should also mention another way Mainlanders have been taking advantage of the system here. The Schooling system, alot of them come over here and get student loans to cover there Tuitions and living expenses. As soon as they get there education done here, they just just fuck off back home or whereever they choose to go They dont ever have to pay that loan back. While i know not all of them do that, but ive actually met quite a few people that has done it. Who has to pay for that? The people that has been here for years, and will continue to live here. Thats who

Now im just waiting for parm104 or apple_cutie to say theres nothing wrong with that either.

[Death2Theft]

All these people that complain about not being able to get jobs due to not being chinese... please tell me what exactly are these jobs you are trying to get? Most of the chinese speaking jobs dont pay very well nor do they have lots of benifits like most white jobs do.

Originally Posted by Walperstyle

Firstly. French Surrendered to the British in 1755, before Canada was formed. They had the option to 'swear to the king' or 'leave'. Many left to the southern US and what are now 'Cajun'. Some went back to France. SOMEHOW the French found a way to preserve culture in Canada, and as of the last Century have been using it against the rest of Canada to try to dictate policy in all Provinces. I don't like the French, but I respect them for one of the best ways to preserve a culture is to lie and cheat your way into a Countries 'heritage'. They survived this long!

Secondly, The Chinese may be paying for territory, but much like Richmond, its a double edge sword. There is many places as a white 30 year old, I cannot get a job. There is Chinese communities that look after other Chinese, and in the Reverse Scenereo out here in Alberta, if I didn't hire someone that is of another skin color, the race card can be called.

Third. I do like to see many hard working Chinese families that are 3rd-4th-and some fifth+ Generations here that HATE the FOB Chinese that are coming over here playing easy street.

This tells me that the world in general is good, and people that work hard always hate the lazy aholes!

[RacingMetro92]

Originally Posted by RiceIntegraRS

I should also mention another way Mainlanders have been taking advantage of the system here. The Schooling system, alot of them come over here and get student loans to cover there Tuitions and living expenses. As soon as they get there education done here, they just just fuck off back home or whereever they choose to go They dont ever have to pay that loan back. While i know not all of them do that, but ive actually met quite a few people that has done it. Who has to pay for that? The people that has been here for years, and will continue to live here. Thats who

Now im just waiting for parm104 or apple_cutie to say theres nothing wrong with that either.

Yeah, tell that to the 2 students at SFU with the Maserati and the Audi R8 parked next to the beater ass Civic or VW Golf and still afford school here. Like they give a fuck about tuition here when they're powered by mommy and daddy. (Btw, when they passed by, I notice the drivers. In both cases the drivers in these cars were Chinese.)

I find it a little wrong when people go to school, drive that shit and they're only like 21-22. It makes me wonder where the hell they get that kind of money, but can still afford school.

However, I do agree with what Graeme says. The scales around here are tipping, and not exactly in a good way.

[parm104]

Just a thought I had after reading a few posts...we Canadians often say to immigrants, "either adhere by our laws and customs or GTFO..."

In this particular case, (the real estate topic), these Asian investors are indeed adhering to our laws and our customs. They aren't illegally obtaining property or wealth through crime or laundering, they're simply making legal investments...Yet we still tell them to "GTFO..." I love how we have a sense of ownership over our country and when something does not favor us, we look for things to blame other than our own system or our own personal misfortunes.

People are making issues here over things that are LIFE...Wake up, this is how society works. There are rich people, middle class people, and poor people. Some people have the luxuries of owning nice cars and having lavish houses and going to school without having to worry whether or not they can afford the tuition. Why hate on them for that? How are they affecting you? It upsets you that someone is able to get a nice vehicle from their rich parents and not have to worry about finances? Well that's life, tough break...We work hard in life so we can have the best for ourselves and our families. After that, it all depends on your priorities and values. Some people value nice cars so they will go out and buy them. Other people value family vacations so they will enjoy fancy holidays and cruises. Does that make them bad people? Is it wrong for them to have those things? If your parents bought you an R8 and paid for your tuition, would you reject their helping hand and lavish gifts and go out and do it on your own? I think not...

I am OBVIOUSLY not Chinese but I find it amusing that people continue to bring up the Chinese race as if it has ANY relevance to this issue or any issue being raised here. Form>Function noticed that the drivers of the two nice cars were Chinese, could it have been possible that the drivers of the two "beaters" were also Chinese?

[Death2Theft]

Please give me the name of the city in australia where I can ski/dh mtb/do watersports all in under a 1hr drive? Dont forget thats 3 mountains under a 1hr drive.

Originally Posted by MajinHurricane

Australia. Had a friend who emigrated here from greece, worked here for 2 months said this city fucking sucks and left for sydney. He now makes 30 an hour at a call center there for a bank. Don't buy into the vancouver delusion. Vancouver is just like any other coastal city.

People who defend Vancouver with the passion live in their own bubble. You want proof that people do get up and leave? Look at other NHL games around the league where the canucks are playing. Those are your ubc trained professionals in the stands that couldn't get jobs here.

[hk20000]

Originally Posted by parm104

Just a thought I had after reading a few posts...we Canadians often say to immigrants, "either adhere by our laws and customs or GTFO..."

In this particular case, (the real estate topic), these Asian investors are indeed adhering to our laws and our customs. They aren't illegally obtaining property or wealth through crime or laundering, they're simply making legal investments...Yet we still tell them to "GTFO..." I love how we have a sense of ownership over our country and when something does not favor us, we look for things to blame other than our own system or our own personal misfortunes.

^ Agreed. The lack of intervention from our "garvamentah" is the reason why money is flowing in faster than we can absorb and adjust.

Don't like it? Talk to your MP/PM/whoever runs this mess.

[apple_cutie]

Originally Posted by RiceIntegraRS

I should also mention another way Mainlanders have been taking advantage of the system here. The Schooling system, alot of them come over here and get student loans to cover there Tuitions and living expenses. As soon as they get there education done here, they just just fuck off back home or whereever they choose to go They dont ever have to pay that loan back. While i know not all of them do that, but ive actually met quite a few people that has done it. Who has to pay for that? The people that has been here for years, and will continue to live here. Thats who

Now im just waiting for parm104 or apple_cutie to say theres nothing wrong with that either.

[RiceIntegraRS]

Originally Posted by parm104

Just a thought I had after reading a few posts...we Canadians often say to immigrants, "either adhere by our laws and customs or GTFO..."

In this particular case, (the real estate topic), these Asian investors are indeed adhering to our laws and our customs. They aren't illegally obtaining property or wealth through crime or laundering, they're simply making legal investments...Yet we still tell them to "GTFO..." I love how we have a sense of ownership over our country and when something does not favor us, we look for things to blame other than our own system or our own personal misfortunes.

People are making issues here over things that are LIFE...Wake up, this is how society works. There are rich people, middle class people, and poor people. Some people have the luxuries of owning nice cars and having lavish houses and going to school without having to worry whether or not they can afford the tuition. Why hate on them for that? How are they affecting you? It upsets you that someone is able to get a nice vehicle from their rich parents and not have to worry about finances? Well that's life, tough break...We work hard in life so we can have the best for ourselves and our families. After that, it all depends on your priorities and values. Some people value nice cars so they will go out and buy them. Other people value family vacations so they will enjoy fancy holidays and cruises. Does that make them bad people? Is it wrong for them to have those things? If your parents bought you an R8 and paid for your tuition, would you reject their helping hand and lavish gifts and go out and do it on your own? I think not...

I am OBVIOUSLY not Chinese but I find it amusing that people continue to bring up the Chinese race as if it has ANY relevance to this issue or any issue being raised here. Form>Function noticed that the drivers of the two nice cars were Chinese, could it have been possible that the drivers of the two "beaters" were also Chinese?

The thing is is that your right. They arent bending any rules here. Thats the problem, the rules to owning a home here is just too easy. Just about anyone with money can buy a home. BC has made it nearly impossible for anyone actually living here to own a home legitimately. Yet for everyone else around the world its too easy.

Were only singling out the Chinese cause there the ones that actually have the money and (i hate to say it) are actually smart with there money

[RacingMetro92]

Originally Posted by parm104

Is it wrong for them to have those things? If your parents bought you an R8 and paid for your tuition, would you reject their helping hand and lavish gifts and go out and do it on your own? I think not...

I am OBVIOUSLY not Chinese but I find it amusing that people continue to bring up the Chinese race as if it has ANY relevance to this issue or any issue being raised here. Form>Function noticed that the drivers of the two nice cars were Chinese, could it have been possible that the drivers of the two "beaters" were also Chinese?

So you mean to tell me that a "helping hand" comes in the form of a car that costs just as much if not more than tuition?

I know you're entitled to your opinion, and I respect it. I merely noted out the race as that IS the issue of this thread (Asian, more specifically Chinese). I have no real problem with them investing, it is their right to. It's like any random person investing in a summer home out in the Okanagan.

However, what I do have a problem is the exploitation of the educational system we have here as RiceIntegra pointed out. He has first hand experiences and it trickles to the housing issue. Like using the education system for their benefit, then leaving, it's pretty similar to people buying up properties and having NO intention to live in them.

But the education thing is besides the point of this thread. The way I see it, I pretty much agree with the last point Graeme made.

Please understand that I am not trying to say that people who were born her or lived here before are entitled to anything more than anyone else. Nor am I saying that foreigners are destroying Canada and raping what my forefathers built or had built for them. I am simply trying to say that in Vancouver the scales are currently totally moving out of whack because of changes in the demographics that are coming, both to live and invest.

[scottsman]

How can any fault be placed on mainlanders or anyone else who have the money to buy property in Vancouver? The real issue is the government allowing this to happen. Any Asian Country that I can think of is extremely difficult to own freehold property unless you are married to someone from that country.

The fact that many of these Mainlanders/Asians are "cash" rich gives them much more maneuverability than Vancouverites. What kind of people in North America do you know that show up to buy real estate with duffel bags full of cash?

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by scottsman

. What kind of people in North America do you know that show up to buy real estate with duffel bags full of cash?

[bing]

Originally Posted by UFO

You guys are not getting my point at all and perhaps I did not post it as clearly as it sounds to myself in my head. My issue is not with taxation, but immigrants PURPOSELY taking advantage the social systems we have set up in Canada for those who are less privileged and actually need these systems, which are paid for in majority by the middle working class. Maybe this is what you are calling "enjoying the freedoms and benefits of our country"

My case in point was already stated. Rich well off family receives a quarterly $80 GST rebate because their family income level is below whatever the standard is set at now. They drive a Bentley, Lambo, Cayenne, and the S600 is probably the winter beater. They most likely live in a balled out house in the high end of the city. Do they qualify for this rebate based on the established rules? Probably. Just because the rules say they qualify, does not mean they should be claiming everything they are 'entitled' to? If you are ok with this scenario, then I am out of word (sic)

ooh boo fucking hoo its $80. They buy a name brand handbag and boom the government recovers more than that rebate already. Wealthy people tend to SPEND money and that generates tax revenue. Also it's not like if that money was not given to them, it would directly go into someone less fortunate's pocket. The problem with the social system is that it breeds laziness. The only way it helps is if everyone works even harder and we all benefit, unfortunately that isn't the case. Why don't you start bitching about all the bums and free loaders in society, as I remember 1 million dollars is spent in the DTES every day. Figure probably doesn't even include using up all our police and hospital resources.

[Valour]

Let's ban the chinks from owning land! And lets ban them from lending money to Canadians! And lets ban them from selling goods that Canadians consume!

After all we white Jesus loving Christians did that to Jews over the centuries! Look how that worked out for us!

[sundance1911]

The rich Chinese are buying up Canada just like twenty years ago the rich Americans buying up lands in China and setup factories there and abuse its labor. Karma is a bitch.

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by Shorn

I don't get why being required to know english is even an issue.
When you guys say that it just sounds like americans back then who complained about mexicans taking their jobs. So what? Survival of the fittest.

Why shouldn't knowing the language of the country you're moving to be an issue? If I decide I'm going to move to Italy, I'm not going to expect their government bend over backwards to help me through everything simply because I can't be bothered to learn Italian. At the bare minimum, I'd try to learn at least enough to be able to get by in case I get lost at the airport or something. Moving to a new country with no knowledge of their official languages just doesn't seem right, nor fair.