Mainland Chinese Buying West Van

[parm104]

Originally Posted by Lomac

Why shouldn't knowing the language of the country you're moving to be an issue? If I decide I'm going to move to Italy, I'm not going to expect their government bend over backwards to help me through everything simply because I can't be bothered to learn Italian. At the bare minimum, I'd try to learn at least enough to be able to get by in case I get lost at the airport or something. Moving to a new country with no knowledge of their official languages just doesn't seem right, nor fair.

If that's the case, half of us on this forum wouldn't be here today. My parents were both well educated prior to coming to this country but I am sure that is not the case for everyone. How does someone's language deficiency affect you in any way? How does this "unfairness" cause grief to you? These are questions being asked politely because I simply do not understand your point of view...

I understand your point about whether it is "Right" or even logical to move to a new country without knowing the languages of that country; I just don't see how fairness takes a role in this. Obviously these people aren't lazy...I can't imagine immigrating to a new country being easy...

Also, European settlers didn't know the Aboriginal languages when they came here...On one hand people are complaining because they don't have enough opportunity here in Canada because of immigrants...If ALL our immigrants were fluent in our official languages...Wouldn't that result in even less opportunities?

[Z3guy]

I would love to see the facial expressions of the 3rd generation West Van wasps when a gap tooth, mothball smelly, bad breath mainlander moves in next door to him.

[CP.AR]

^c'mon man that's just not in good taste

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by Lomac

Why shouldn't knowing the language of the country you're moving to be an issue? If I decide I'm going to move to Italy, I'm not going to expect their government bend over backwards to help me through everything simply because I can't be bothered to learn Italian. At the bare minimum, I'd try to learn at least enough to be able to get by in case I get lost at the airport or something. Moving to a new country with no knowledge of their official languages just doesn't seem right, nor fair.

Because we are a tourist destination. Have fun learning 6 or 7 different languages if you plan on pack packing threw Europe.

[RFlush]

Originally Posted by Lomac

Why shouldn't knowing the language of the country you're moving to be an issue? If I decide I'm going to move to Italy, I'm not going to expect their government bend over backwards to help me through everything simply because I can't be bothered to learn Italian. At the bare minimum, I'd try to learn at least enough to be able to get by in case I get lost at the airport or something. Moving to a new country with no knowledge of their official languages just doesn't seem right, nor fair.

Have you ever been forced to move to another country for work? Have you ever just picked up and moved to a non English speaking country? It's not as easy as saying "just learn the local language".

[Birchum]

Why is it so many mainlanders have nasty teeth and shit breath?

[Shorn]

Originally Posted by Lomac

Why shouldn't knowing the language of the country you're moving to be an issue? If I decide I'm going to move to Italy, I'm not going to expect their government bend over backwards to help me through everything simply because I can't be bothered to learn Italian. At the bare minimum, I'd try to learn at least enough to be able to get by in case I get lost at the airport or something. Moving to a new country with no knowledge of their official languages just doesn't seem right, nor fair.

Maybe I should have clarified; not knowing the language of the country and buying land/property there shouldn't be an issue. They have nothing to do with each other, and shouldn't have any relevance in this debate, because the 'at least learn english before they're allowed to buy land' is starting to sound borderline racist.

How does our government bend over backwards to help the mainlander chinese who doesn't know english and are buying land? They just find realtors who are multilingual and that solves it.

Whoever said that you should be complaining about the government instead of the chinese is right. This is NOT an issue of the mainlanders doing something wrong, they are doing everything completely legally.

Consider the viewpoint of the rich mainlander. Actually it doesn't even matter what nationality you are, just consider if you were rich (ie balling out of control). Would you feel like 'Oh the Vancouver property value is already so high and so many Vancouver locals can't afford houses, I better not buy property there'? Of course not, you wouldn't give a shit because obviously the value is so high since so many people WANT to live there. And why do they want to live there? Because Vancouver is a great city to be in. The culture, people, maybe not the weather, and the views.

This is a simple matter of supply and demand. Vancouver is just in demand. Anyone remember the PS3 when it first came out? Demand through the roof and people lining up for it overnight? And then people selling it on ebay for multiple times the retail price? Would you be angry at the people who BUY it for the outrageous price? If not, then why would you be angry at people (mainland chinese) who are buying property at an outrageous price?

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by Manic!

Because we are a tourist destination. Have fun learning 6 or 7 different languages if you plan on pack packing threw Europe.

Been there, done that. Apart from already knowing English and French, I learned the basics to two other languages (German and Italian) before travelling through Europe a few years ago.

Originally Posted by parm104

If that's the case, half of us on this forum wouldn't be here today. My parents were both well educated prior to coming to this country but I am sure that is not the case for everyone. How does someone's language deficiency affect you in any way? How does this "unfairness" cause grief to you? These are questions being asked politely because I simply do not understand your point of view...

I understand your point about whether it is "Right" or even logical to move to a new country without knowing the languages of that country; I just don't see how fairness takes a role in this. Obviously these people aren't lazy...I can't imagine immigrating to a new country being easy...

Also, European settlers didn't know the Aboriginal languages when they came here...On one hand people are complaining because they don't have enough opportunity here in Canada because of immigrants...If ALL our immigrants were fluent in our official languages...Wouldn't that result in even less opportunities?

Originally Posted by RFlush

Have you ever been forced to move to another country for work? Have you ever just picked up and moved to a non English speaking country? It's not as easy as saying "just learn the local language".

I think you guys misunderstood me. Obviously if you're being forced against your will to move to another country, or have to move on a very short notice, I'm not expecting people to learn that country's language. My grandparents on my father's side escaped Austria during WW2 because they were being prosecuted by Nazi Germany. They sailed to America, knowing only a few phrases they learned on the boat while crossing the Atlantic. So, no... I don't expect people in those sort of situations to spend weeks learning the language.

My point is that if I were to willingly move to another country with the idea that I would settle, buy a house, and spend many years there, I would do what I could to help fit in. Among other things, learning the local language would likely be one of the most important pre-flight tasks. I'm not going to decide to move to Egypt and start demanding that every government test I need to do should be in English, nor would I expect local stores to have even a smidgen of English on their signs or products. I'm moving to their country; I should be able to integrate into said society, not expect them to conform to my needs simply because I can't be bothered to learn their language.

[Mr.C]

Originally Posted by Lomac

My point is that if I were to willingly move to another country with the idea that I would settle, buy a house, and spend many years there, I would do what I could to help fit in. Among other things, learning the local language would likely be one of the most important pre-flight tasks. I'm not going to decide to move to Egypt and start demanding that every government test I need to do should be in English, nor would I expect local stores to have even a smidgen of English on their signs or products. I'm moving to their country; I should be able to integrate into said society, not expect them to conform to my needs simply because I can't be bothered to learn their language.

Agree with you there. My first language isn't English, I was not born in an English speaking country, nor were my parents. Guess what, we learned English. Why can't people here do the same? If I was moving to China, I sure as hell would learn at least basic Mandarin and Cantonese, and not think I was entitled to have stuff in my native language because I didn't want to learn the local language.

[RFlush]

Originally Posted by Mr.C

Agree with you there. My first language isn't English, I was not born in an English speaking country, nor were my parents. Guess what, we learned English. Why can't people here do the same? If I was moving to China, I sure as hell would learn at least basic Mandarin and Cantonese, and not think I was entitled to have stuff in my native language because I didn't want to learn the local language.

Do you mind if I ask where you are originally from?

I don't understand why this language thing is even an issue. Even the women in the original video is speaking English, albeit broken as hell. I'm sure her English is probably better than Skinnypup's Chinese hahaha.
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[Eastwood]

There is a law in the Philippines and Thailand that only residents of their given countries can own land. This is to enable to that citizens of that country to be able to afford their house prices.

If that law was in effect here; only people living in Canada could purchase houses thus lowering prices. Hopefully...

[sundance1911]

I truly don't understand why not learning English in canada is such a big deal for many of you.

I can totally understand why all the rich immigrants won't bother to learn a lick of english here, and I support them 100%. This is a free country what language they speak is none of you business.

You need to understand: Many of the wealthy Chinese in Canada came here for a very short term purpose: they either just want to send their children here for education or just buying a 2nd home here for vacation or investment purpose. Under this circumstance do you think any of them would actually want to seriously learn a foriegn language?


answer this: if you ever become rich enough to purpose a 2nd house in Mexico or the Middle East for vacation / investment purpose, would you be learning Spanish or Arabs like theres no tomororw? no, you would not. You would still be in Mexico or Middle East and expect them to speak your language (in this case english) to be at your service.

Get this: try to get into the richman's mindset is the first step toward one day being like one of them.

[RFlush]

Originally Posted by Eastwood

There is a law in the Philippines and Thailand that only residents of their given countries can own land. This is to enable to that citizens of that country to be able to afford their house prices.

If that law was in effect here; only people living in Canada could purchase houses thus lowering prices. Hopefully...

That's absurd. Then what if you are a Canadian citizen but not a resident of Canada? You are forced to sell your own property?
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[StylinRed]

Originally Posted by Eastwood

There is a law in the Philippines and Thailand that only residents of their given countries can own land. This is to enable to that citizens of that country to be able to afford their house prices.

If that law was in effect here; only people living in Canada could purchase houses thus lowering prices. Hopefully...

there are quite a few places that don't allow property ownership (homes/apartments) unless your a resident/citizen

its actually a good idea

[UFO]

Originally Posted by bing

ooh boo fucking hoo its $80. They buy a name brand handbag and boom the government recovers more than that rebate already. Wealthy people tend to SPEND money and that generates tax revenue. Also it's not like if that money was not given to them, it would directly go into someone less fortunate's pocket. The problem with the social system is that it breeds laziness. The only way it helps is if everyone works even harder and we all benefit, unfortunately that isn't the case. Why don't you start bitching about all the bums and free loaders in society, as I remember 1 million dollars is spent in the DTES every day. Figure probably doesn't even include using up all our police and hospital resources.

I have a problem with your everyone work harder and we all benefit mentality, and you should too. Why should I work harder to help the rich enjoy a richer and more luxurious way of life, those that can obviously fend and take care of themselves? Why should a post-secondary student have to work 2 part time jobs then get taxed on the income, take out a student loan and graduate with $100k of accumulated debt, to help fund the 'visiting resident student' who accumulates the same debt while not working and not generating income tax with no intention of paying it off and goes back to the motherland after graduation?

My $80 tax rebate example was an extreme one. However they would have bought that same handbag and government would have generated the same tax income without the $80 handout. We've already brought up examples of abuse of the education system, medical system, etc etc, that are much costlier and no amount of sales tax generated from consumed goods can make that up. Maybe abuse is too strong a word, it implies improper use. The problem is not with the people taking advantage of the system, it is that the system is too easy to take advantage of; so those who feel they are eligible for something, feel that it is their entitlement.

Bums and freeloaders, I wish we could ship them off all to mainland China and let their government take care of them much like how our government are taking care of their rich people (only half serious). But hey, what can you do, these people can't fend for themselves whether its by choice or by nature. The immigrants coming in and leeching off our social systems even though they pay sales tax, they don't get the same pass from me. As I mentioned earlier, the blame is as much on the gov and the system as it is on them, but we should all know what is right and what is not

[parm104]

Originally Posted by UFO

I have a problem with your everyone work harder and we all benefit mentality, and you should too. Why should I work harder to help the rich enjoy a richer and more luxurious way of life, those that can obviously fend and take care of themselves? Why should a post-secondary student have to work 2 part time jobs then get taxed on the income, take out a student loan and graduate with $100k of accumulated debt, to help fund the 'visiting resident student' who accumulates the same debt while not working and not generating income tax with no intention of paying it off and goes back to the motherland after graduation?

My $80 tax rebate example was an extreme one. However they would have bought that same handbag and government would have generated the same tax income without the $80 handout. We've already brought up examples of abuse of the education system, medical system, etc etc, that are much costlier and no amount of sales tax generated from consumed goods can make that up. Maybe abuse is too strong a word, it implies improper use. The problem is not with the people taking advantage of the system, it is that the system is too easy to take advantage of; so those who feel they are eligible for something, feel that it is their entitlement.

Bums and freeloaders, I wish we could ship them off all to mainland China and let their government take care of them much like how our government are taking care of their rich people (only half serious). But hey, what can you do, these people can't fend for themselves whether its by choice or by nature. The immigrants coming in and leeching off our social systems even though they pay sales tax, they don't get the same pass from me. As I mentioned earlier, the blame is as much on the gov and the system as it is on them, but we should all know what is right and what is not

Do you understand the principles of discrimination? It doesn't matter if you're white or black, muslim or jew, man or woman, RICH OR POOR...EVERYBODY gets the SAME rights and opportunities. That is what is guaranteed in our Charter of Rights and Freedoms...

Why shouldn't a person who is well-off receive a tax bonus? Because they don't need it AS much as you do? Who decides what a person "needs" and what a person doesn't "need." It's arbitrary and personal opinion based on your own values and goals.

Why should someone who is rich pay higher amounts of taxes and get no return while someone who is poor will pay a smaller amount and get a larger return? Because they have more money? ? ? If someone decides to give up their "$80 return" and give it to you, that is called charity. If the government forces that person to give up that $80 return that was theirs, that's called STEALING...

You're talking about a sense of entitlement but from what you have written, it is my understanding that you feel you are entitled to more financial benefits from the government than a rich person? Why is that? Because you're not as well off? Because that rich person can go without that tax return and sleep nice and easy in her or her bed without worrying about it? (And I am speaking generally here, I am not implying that you are not well off or that you are well off...)

Why should you work harder you ask? Not because we want you to help rich people become more rich...But because you feel that you deserve more and have the potential to be more financially stable...Everyone makes life choices...the choices made by "rich" people have generally brought them to where they are today. Yes, some get their money through inheritances and trust funds, but nevertheless, someone in their family, at one point or another, worked extremely hard to earn that money. They have the right to do as they please with it so long as they are not directly hurting anyone else with it. If they want to give it to their children, they have every legal and moral right to do so.

[willystyle]

Originally Posted by bing

From what I recall, the government also wants proof that the money was earned legitimately. Someone correct me if Im wrong.

NO, there's practically no way for the banks to verify your foreign income outside of Canada to approve you for a loan to buy a property.

All you need is a stash of cash for collateral then they will approve you, which makes it ridiculously easy for money laundering.

Originally Posted by RFlush

That's absurd. Then what if you are a Canadian citizen but not a resident of Canada? You are forced to sell your own property?
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No, take Vietnam, if you are a citizen of that country, but you live in Canada, for example. You can still own property in Vietnam because you are still a citizen of that country.

This law has actually help control the price of residential real estate in Vietnam, allowing residents and citizens of that country to realistically afford a home. Not just a home for a bachelor, but a home for a family of 4 or 5, which is entirely unreachable here in Vancouver.

And don't give me this BS that moving out to the suburbs will be affordable cause it's not. For a family of 4, buying a house in Surrey Central, for example, will set you back 500-550K before tax. After tax, you're looking at approximately 620K. 20% down-payment, for example, which is UNHEARD of, would set you back at 124K downpayment. A mortgage of 496K, at today's rate of 3.7% Variable, 5 years interest term, amortization at 30 years.

Monthly payment is $2,283.00

This is ONLY your mortgage payment, excluding utils, property tax, maintenance, etc.

Average household income is approximately 60k in Vancouver (gross). Net income is approximately 48K.

The annual mortgage payment is $27,396 (2,283.00 x 12).

That is 57% of your annual income going towards ONLY your mortgage for the average household.

Nevermind buying and owning a house in Vancouver, This is not even affordable to buy a house in the suburbs for an average family.

This is how fucked up and flawed our real estate market is.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by sundance1911

I truly don't understand why not learning English in canada is such a big deal for many of you.

I can totally understand why all the rich immigrants won't bother to learn a lick of english here, and I support them 100%. This is a free country what language they speak is none of you business.

You need to understand: Many of the wealthy Chinese in Canada came here for a very short term purpose: they either just want to send their children here for education or just buying a 2nd home here for vacation or investment purpose. Under this circumstance do you think any of them would actually want to seriously learn a foriegn language?


answer this: if you ever become rich enough to purpose a 2nd house in Mexico or the Middle East for vacation / investment purpose, would you be learning Spanish or Arabs like theres no tomororw? no, you would not. You would still be in Mexico or Middle East and expect them to speak your language (in this case english) to be at your service.

Get this: try to get into the richman's mindset is the first step toward one day being like one of them.

You haven't seen them in shopping malls do you? They just say Chines! Chinese Chinese?

What the heck do you mean Chinese lol. I am sorry at least learn how to communicate better. What's more funny is they tried to grab anyone who looks like they are Chinese and ask for help in Chinese. Everytime that happens I always say I don't speak Chinese. Learn some English.

Why should the Driver test be done in other languages other than English or French? The road signs in Vancouver are in English. They are not in Chinese, Korean, Japanese....... so what if someone pass the Driver with their language but have no idea what it means in English. You know how dangerous that can be?

Just wait a few more years where a decent cost over 2m and the locals can't afford to even buy an apartment that will be fun to see.

[observer]

If I had more time, I think I would invest in learning some Chinese. Too many haters here overworked over nothing.

It's a global village. I hear they pay expats really well working in China, especially in the hospitality industry as managers, as the locals know nothing about service, food & wine, western culture.

[willystyle]

Originally Posted by observer

If I had more time, I think I would invest in learning some Chinese. Too many haters here overworked over nothing.

It's a global village. I hear they pay expats really well working in China, especially in the hospitality industry as managers, as the locals know nothing about service, food & wine, western culture.

No ones hating on the Chinese. At least, I'm not. There's no reason to hate on them. They are just taking advantage of the climate that our government had created to allow them to steam roll through our residential real estate market like that. This couldve happened with residents of any country, it just happened to be the Chinese. If there's one person or group of people that we should point our fingers at. It should be the people that have done NOTHING prominent to help resolve or alleviate this situation and that is our GOVERNMENT.
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[goo3]

Originally Posted by Graeme S

My grandfather, recently deceased, spent the last five weeks of his life in hospital. Paid for by MSPs, which he had been paying for the entire time he had lived in BC; more than half a century. Let's assume that someone moves here from a foreign country at 50, and they are relatively healthy but over the course of their life end up hospitalized or going to specialists as referred through their GPs. You can apply for a BC Carecard after only 6 months of living here as long as your visa permits you to stay for 1 or more years. This means that after only six months of living here (and possibly a 3-month wait period while they process your application and wait for your card), you can get health care at a very high discount; close to free.

This is not fair, but this is not the fault of immigrants or people coming to Canada to live. This is a problem with the system, and it is something that needs to be dealt with at a systemic level rather than thinking of it as a "foreigner" problem. These kinds of lupolls make me wander why politicians don't work harder to close them for all taxpayers' sakes.

Interestingly, under the skilled-worker program, age 50 is worth 8/10 on the qualification quiz, and it scales down to 0 at 54+.

http://www.workpermit.com/canada/points_calculator.htm

Take the quiz: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigra...sess/index.asp

Maybe email your MP if you have specific concerns. Who knows, maybe your loop hole's an issue they've already looked at.

[Meowjin]

Originally Posted by observer

If I had more time, I think I would invest in learning some Chinese. Too many haters here overworked over nothing.

It's a global village. I hear they pay expats really well working in China, especially in the hospitality industry as managers, as the locals know nothing about service, food & wine, western culture.

yes, but unless you like working 6 days a week 12 hours a day, (i've had several friends do it) you will not like it. I was going to do it before I went back to school, but decided china wasn't for me.

[urban.boi]

Originally Posted by willystyle

Nevermind buying and owning a house in Vancouver, This is not even affordable to buy a house in the suburbs for an average family.

This is how fucked up and flawed our real estate market is.

The real estate market out in Hong Kong and China (Shanghai) is even worse. New luxury apartments in Hong Kong are going for $40,000 HKD (abt $5000 CDN) per sq ft. (About 1400 sq ft) that's $56,000,000 HKD (7million CDN for an apartment that is 1400 sq ft)

[bengy]

Originally Posted by observer

If I had more time, I think I would invest in learning some Chinese. Too many haters here overworked over nothing.

It's a global village. I hear they pay expats really well working in China, especially in the hospitality industry as managers, as the locals know nothing about service, food & wine, western culture.

Who gives a shit? We want to work and live in Vancouver, not China.

[Meowjin]

class uprising. Lets do it.