The Official 2011/2012 Canucks Thread

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by ilovebacon

do u guys think we are gonna win the next game?

Yes, I WILL BE right about them winning 4 in a row, I just didn't think they'd lose 3 first

[AzNightmare]

Well, the only really good thing I saw from today was the much better puck possession on the power play. (Excluding Bieksa's mistake)
2 PPG is pretty good. It will keep LA in check from taking stupid penalties and playing dirty.
I didn't know how much of an impact was Daniel really going to do, but he exceeded my expectation and looks ready.

Although I would have to say the first two goals aren't the prettiest, but we'll have to take them when it's against a goalie like Quick.

Canucks seemed to be getting the lucky bounces today. LA got a few posts, including that one near the end of the game.
There's still holes in our defensive game, but I'm glad the forwards were able to get some goals, one way or another.

At least Cauncks confidence went up, and we might be able to grind out another win at home...

Not sure about after that, going back to LA. But we'll talk about game 6 later, if necessary.

Really excited about the win, but have to remain composed... no need to prepare for any cup parade yet.

[DanHibiki]

Wow tsn didn't show the puck hitting Brown in the face and went directly to Henrik giving him the elbow and said "...he had bloody lip, no call on the play!"

Way to mislead the viewers.

[punkwax]

It will be very difficult to trade Luongo and his contract. Teams will consider it a salary dump and give very little in return for what is, in fact, a great goalie with a good contract (given the cap hit and the fact that there are outs for either camp after x yrs). He also won't want to play for a team with no chance of a cup. Very limited options, very limited gain for the Canucks.

Trading Schneider on the other hand, should land the Canucks 1, perhaps 2 impact players + a draft pick or two. Plus, you'd have to pay him around 4M, let's say thats the cap hit for shits and giggles.

So, trade Luongo get little in return plus a measly 1.3M to play with or trade Schneider and get some legitimate top 6 assets to help them win a Cup during this so-called "Sedin Window".

Keep in mind how difficult it will be to move Luongo compared to Schneider. MG has all the bargaining power with Schneider and teams will likely try to outbid each other and offer a hell of lot. With Luongo, MG loses all bargaining power because he's already told the other GM's that he's running with Schneider and has to lose Lu's contract...

MG this offseason =

[SkinnyPupp]

Trading Luongo will be much more difficult, and will yield a smaller return, but AV basically sealed hs fate with this team last night. I suppose what they could do if they lost one of the next 3 games is pile the blame on AV, and fire him. That gives MG an out with Luongo, saying that AV didn't appreciate him like the next coach will, and ship off Schneider...

That being said, I don't think it will be a stretch for Luongo to move back to Florida since they have a decent team now, or Tampa who is also a good team in need of a top tier goalie like Lu.

One thing is for sure, MG has some pretty big decisions to make... Well I guess we'll see what happens. There's still hope!

[7seven]

Most "insiders" don't feel like it'll be very hard to deal Lu at all if that is what it comes down to, cap friendly contract for a top goalie with an out clause in the contract after 4 years.

Pierre Lebrun was on Team 1040 last week saying that at least 5 or 6 teams would have very legitimate interest in Lu and that Dale Tallon is a huge Lu fan and could see Florida making a push for Lu if he was available, even though Florida has Markstrom waiting, Tallon wants to win sooner than later. Given Bryz's struggles all year in Philly, I would not be surprised if they kick the tires at a few options to.

[SkinnyPupp]

wtf can Philly do with Bryz?

[7seven]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

wtf can Philly do with Bryz?

Yea that's a cluster fuck, he has a NMC too, so they couldn't even give him the Wade Redden treatment.

I could see Florida, TB, Toronto, NYI, CBJ, Washington (yea I know they have Holtby/Neuvirth developing, but they also in win now mode) having some interest, but if whether Lu wants to go to those teams is another question.

[RCubed]

[Blah_Teggie]

So what you guys are saying is there is a chance Lou can go and Schneids will stay? I've been wanting a Schnieds jersey for a while now but scared cuz he might get traded away this off season.

[MR_BIGGS]

I think it is pretty safe to assume, one goalie will be moved in the offseason.

With Luongo's no-movement clause, he holds the balance of power. The state of Florida could makes sense because his wife's family is from there.

Not thinking this one through, but what if someone did want to take on Luongo's deal and the Canucks didn't have to take on salary in return and instead got picks and prospects, could they be in the hunt for a top 6 forward via free agency this summer? Someone like a Parise? Is there potential for that to happen?

[Tim Budong]

Schneider is going to be harder to keep unless Lu gets moved between the draft and the last day to send qualifying offers to RFAs

There was an article on his FA status and plays out each sanario. I dig that out when I'm home

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by MR_BIGGS

I think it is pretty safe to assume, one goalie will be moved in the offseason.

With Luongo's no-movement clause, he holds the balance of power. The state of Florida could makes sense because his wife's family is from there.

Not thinking this one through, but what if someone did want to take on Luongo's deal and the Canucks didn't have to take on salary in return and instead got picks and prospects, could they be in the hunt for a top 6 forward via free agency this summer? Someone like a Parise? Is there potential for that to happen?

I assume that's the way it would go, because how often do the teams of players ASKING for a trade get much back in return?

[punkwax]

Originally Posted by 7seven

Most "insiders" don't feel like it'll be very hard to deal Lu at all if that is what it comes down to, cap friendly contract for a top goalie with an out clause in the contract after 4 years.

Pierre Lebrun was on Team 1040 last week saying that at least 5 or 6 teams would have very legitimate interest in Lu and that Dale Tallon is a huge Lu fan and could see Florida making a push for Lu if he was available, even though Florida has Markstrom waiting, Tallon wants to win sooner than later. Given Bryz's struggles all year in Philly, I would not be surprised if they kick the tires at a few options to.

There would be teams interested, sure, but finding one that Lu is interested in as well is the tricky part. The guy wants a cup, badly.

The sad part is that we likely wouldn't get any significant players in return for Lu because of the contract length, and Lu is a significant player himself.

That's the big thing. Keep Lu, a proven # 1 goalie and hope to get some young, affordable talent to win a cup, or keep Schneider and hope move some pieces around here and there with an extra schmill or so to spend...

I guess it all comes down to what other GMs are offering for both goalies and MG will have to decide. It may very well be the biggest decision any GM has had to make in Canuck history...

[highfive]

What worries me most is that the past trades with goalies, the team only gotten prospects or picks in return. None of the really impact players.

Halak to Blue for Eller and Schultz

Bryzgalov's rights were traded for a 3rd round.

Varlamov was for a 1st and 2nd rounders.

EVEN when we got Luongo, we only gave up Auld, Bertuzzi, Allen, and a pick. lol hahaha

[dbaz]

Lu''s contract is not a hindrance to his trade. gomez basically got traded for higgins and mcdonagh. mcdonagh is now a #1 shutdown dman on nyr. so basically if gomez can get that lu can at least fetch something like that

[UFO]

Originally Posted by highfive

EVEN when we got Luongo, we only gave up Auld, Bertuzzi, Allen, and a pick. lol hahaha

But from a buy/sell standpoint, since we didn't really give up much to get Lu, getting 100% full value back for him may not be critical. The biggest thing here is you are trading away Lu's contract, and not necessarily the player himself. Similar situation to when we took on Booth and Ballard, we got them for a relative song because of the term of their contracts. I'm not saying you ship Lu off for a pale of pucks, but this is not a trade that will make or break the next few years of the franchise. I personally think Lu is a lot more moveable than most of the public believes, they see 10 years remaining at 5.3M per, but everybody knows that he won't play to the end of his contract and the outclauses in his contract are actually quite flexible with only a 4 year commitment really.

The question is does Lu want a cup so bad he's willing to ride the bench to get one, or does he want to continue to be the go to guy?

IMO the Bure trade was THE biggest trade of the Canucks history, followed by the trade to acquire Luongo.

[Hondaracer]

A shit team would take luongo in a heart beat, not only could he be a good starter for most those teams he would also be a marketing peice

[UFO]

^That's irrelevant because Luongo would have to want to go to said team first. NYI, CBJ? Yeah, no thanks

If Lu goes anywhere, it will be to Florida or Tampa or to a good team. A Bryz/Lu tandem in Philly would be quite entertaining. Highest paid tandem in the league, most problems between the ears as well.

[Gh0stRider]

LOS ANGELES — With everything at stake, the Vancouver Canucks chose Wednesday to play the goalie who had the best chance of saving their season.

Maybe you heard. It wasn't the guy who has been the starter for six years, but the backup who should be the starter for the next six.

Cory Schneider had a spectacular first night to the rest of his National Hockey League career, making 43 saves and making the difference in the Canucks' 3-1 win against the Los Angeles Kings.

But Schneider wasn't chosen to start only Game 4 of the first-round playoff series. He was chosen to start, period. It's his team now.

The toothpaste doesn't go back in the tube on this one. The Canucks will try to trade Luongo and his 12-year, $64-million contract this summer. There is no other reasonable conclusion to draw from coach Alain Vigneault's decision to go with his gut and leave Luongo on the bench as Vancouver faced elimination.

It was Vigneault's call, but the Canucks' hockey operations department works by consensus and it seems everyone was in agreement to play Schneider. And since general manager Mike Gillis is no fool, the decision was made with full awareness of its implications and an acceptance of the ramifications.

From a strategic, competitive standpoint, it really isn't a tough choice between Luongo and Schneider for next season and beyond.

After matching Luongo's performance numbers last season as a rookie, Schneider outplayed the starter this year. Schneider's goals-against average of 1.96 was nearly a half-puck better than Luongo's, and the tandem's save percentages (.937 vs .919) meant that for about every 50 shots, Schneider allowed one fewer goal.

Schneider just turned 26 and can be expected to get better. Luongo just turned 33 and there is at least a chance that his slight decline this season is the first faint glimpse of the twilight of his career.

So, remove emotions and Luongo's huge contract from the equation, and it's no wonder Schneider would be chosen if the Canucks could have only one of their goalies.

And that's the thing: they have to choose.

Schneider is a restricted free agent this summer and ready to be a No. 1 goalkeeper. He was a first-round pick and has proved at every level that he is an elite player. He is already better, technically, than Luongo — wider in his butterfly and more upright when he moves laterally.

If the Canucks don't make Schneider their starter, someone else will. And another team could do it with a predatory free-agent offer.

Gillis will try to re-sign Schneider before his contract expires on July 1. If he can't, the Canucks almost certainly will arbitrate against Schneider — exercising the seldom-used contractual option that would remove the goalie from the free-agent market a few days after it opens.

The Nashville Predators did it last season with Shea Weber, but handled it clumsily by low-balling their star defenceman after squashing his free-agency options. Having seen how badly that went, the Canucks would work with Schneider to establish a salary above what he ordinarily might expect based on his NHL experience so far.

Of course, the risk is that Schneider, like innumerable goalies before him, fails to become a great starter after being a great backup.

And say what you want about Luongo's playoff failings, he has been one of the best at his position for a decade, earning three Vezina Trophy nominations and averaging 37 wins a season for the Canucks.

Despite arguments from Kirk McLean supporters, Luongo is the best goalie the franchise has had. But Schneider has the potential to be even better.

Luongo's resume, and a salary-cap hit of $5.33 million that is not an onerous as it seems, make him tradable despite having 10 years remaining on his deal. He is due $6.714 million each of the next six seasons before his salary plummets in anticipation of early retirement.

The fine print in this is that Luongo has a no-trade clause.

He could make things miserable for the Canucks if he flatly rejects the idea of a trade. But proud and driven to win, Luongo would be miserable, too, at even a 50/50 split of goaltending duties in Vancouver, let alone a full demotion to a backup role.

Luongo can name his teams, and chances are the Canucks will find one of them with which to trade. Vancouver may get little in return. Simply clearing the crease for Schneider while off-loading Luongo's contract might have to be the payoff for the Canucks. Gillis may even have to take on someone else's bad contract in return.

But a Luongo trade can happen and probably will.

Far more time was spent on Wednesday's goaltending decision than the two days between Games 3 and 4. A year ago, when Luongo disintegrated in Boston in the Stanley Cup final, the organization still felt an obligation to their starter. Vigneault said as much.

Schneider should have started Game 4 in Boston but didn't. He could have started Game 6 or even Game 7, but didn't. Luongo was Vigneault's guy.

Not anymore.

Excluding the season he tore his groin, Luongo's 55 games this year were his fewest since his sophomore NHL season in 2000-01. In the last quarter of the regular season, Vigneault played Schneider as often as he did Luongo. Then he went to his backup in the third game of the playoffs, even though Luongo was solid the first two games and not responsible for the deficit to the Kings.

The Canucks have been thinking ahead, working towards something. And now we know what.

Vancouver Canucks are Cory Schneider's team now, as Roberto Luongo will be moved

[Gumby]

I dunno what to say about that article.

All I know is that I'm sick & tired of the media.

[AzNightmare]

lol... What if... Canucks win 3 in a row... then continue to win 12 more games!

Luongo gets his cup this year, and then in the summer, he's like, "I'm outta here!!!"

lol


On a serious note. Getting sick and tired about reading articles (or people talking) about how Schneider starting game 4
defined Luongo being traded in the summer. It's ridiculous to just jump into conclusion just from that. Media has nothing better to write.
People have nothing better to talk about. Personally, I think AV's just going with the hotter goalie right now.
Doesn't take a genius to figure out who should have played in game 4.
Goalie that lets in in 1 goal vs goalie that let in 2 and 4 goals... The team's just trying to win games here. The politics behind it is stupid.

[Tim Budong]

heres the situation for Schneider...
based on some odd facts

give this a read... Time is NOT on the Canucks side if a move were to be made involving Luongo or Schneider

The Complete Guide to Cory Schneider's Upcoming Restricted Free Agency | CanucksArmy

in short... its either move one of the two at the draft...or risk losing schneider to nothing

with that said, unless Luongo exercises his out clause, he's here to stay based on those facts

[dbaz]

actually in a elimination game, going with the backup is a slap in the face to luongo. it is a direct statement from management that they think schnieder is the better goalie for the team. hes butt hurt and he will continue to be butt hurt, its very realistic that he asks for a trade after this.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Gumby

I dunno what to say about that article.

All I know is that I'm sick & tired of the media.

I thought it was a pretty well written article. States the obvious assumption most people are thinking. Brings up upsides and downsides, not an idiotic one sided piece.

Who would have thought 2 months ago, that CoHo would be traded away and Schneider would have a better chance of staying than Luongo for next season..