Owners want to take back apartment after lease signed. What are my options?

[dinosaur]

Originally Posted by AME_VIP

dinosaur: What was the result with the smoke damage? Did they end up paying for repairs/remediation?

He was sent a letter detailing everything that needed to be cleaned in detail (walls to be washed, carpets to be professionally cleaned, windows cleaned, appliances, counters, window sils, curtains, bathroom, etc...).

He had 14 days to have it cleaned or at least be actively cleaning the unit. He was also warned to never smoke in the unit again. SHould he decide not to comply with the above requests, on the 31st of the month he will be issued a 30-day End of Tenancy Notice for violating the health and safety and quiet enjoyment clause of his RTA.

We did an inspection last week and so far he has made a marked improvement to his place. He admitted that he did not realize how horrible it had become and was actually pretty embarrassed. He has also stopped smoking in his unit. I am totally satisfied yet, but he is getting there and I am willing to give him a reasonable amount of time as it is quite the cleaning task.

What brought this to my attention was when we did the inspection to measure the windows...the building was being outfitted with new energy efficient, top quality windows....my thought was, "hell no, i dont want these to be installed in this unit b/c they are just going to be destroyed".

So far so good with him....we have another inspection next month and if the progress has slowed, we will need to re-address the possibility of eviction.

[TouringTeg]

That is proffesional and reasonable. If they are making a considerable effort and have stopped smoking then it is fair you are allowing a little more time before you reinspect.

I am actually surprised they are putting in the effort and aren't just packing up and leaving.


Thanks.

[dinosaur]

Originally Posted by taylor192

One of the units on my floor smells of curry a few times a week, and not the good smell that makes me want to go eat Indian food. If it really bothered me I'd speak to them about it, otherwise its part of living next to people, there's going to be random smells and noises at times.

My GF moved from a house to a condo, having never lived in apartment/condo style living. She still hates that she can hear/smell other people in the building, so she should probably move back to a house at some point. Sharing a wall with someone isn't for everyone, especially those with low tolerance/patience.

Yes...the "smell" issue can have a lot of grey areas. A lot of people smell....A lot of people cook smelly foods...does that equate a letter and/or eviction, no.

The smell of cig smoke, pot smoke, mold, rotting food, and/or general un-tidiness, possibly.

We live in society where there are thousands of different people from a thousand different places...if you want to live communally (condos, apts, basements, etc) people are just going to have to deal with different smells (curries, fish, goats, garlic, etc...). If I have a tenant that complains of the smell of curry in the hall, I tell them if they don't like it, they can move...I can't and will not do anything about it.They know where they live....

[TouringTeg]

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

As an amature slumlord I may be wrong, but another thing that can be negotiated is to have the original slumlord pay the difference in monthly rent if the OP has to rent at a high price than what he was supposed to pay with the one year lease.

Please correct me if I am wrong. I know a friend who broke her lease to buy her own place and the owner took her to the tenancy board and they ruled in the owner's favour. The owner found a new tenant at a lower monthly rental price and my friend has to pay the difference from her rental price with the new tenants price.

I'm not sure if it works that way. Perhaps the tenant could be owed money if the owners turn around and rent the unit with a higher monthly rental cost.

My understanding of the RTA is that a tenant who breaks a lease early can be held liable for lost rental income if the landlord makes a reasonable effort and must rent the unit at a lower price. 6 months early x $50 less than original monthly lease = $300 owed to the landlord.

This is all assuming you can collect from the tenant. My last tenant in my rental condo was the kind of person that would be extremly difficult to collect anything from. There were lots of people chasing them for money and could not collect.

[dinosaur]

Originally Posted by AME_VIP

That is proffesional and reasonable. If they are making a considerable effort and have stopped smoking then it is fair you are allowing a little more time before you reinspect.

I am actually surprised they are putting in the effort and aren't just packing up and leaving.


Thanks.

Exactly...and honestly, sometimes there are bigger fish to fry. Does he pay rent on time? Yes. Is he otherwise pleasant? Yes. You have to weigh the pros and cons. Plus, should this guy just pack his shit and move...I would lose a month for renos and cleaning.

Now...if the guy was a prick about the whole thing or was a dick tenant who pays rent late or causes issues with others...you better believe that on the 14th day if his place wasn't ready for a showcase on HGTV, his ass would be gone.

Reasonable people get reasonable responses in the tenancy game IMO.

[dinosaur]

Originally Posted by AME_VIP

Yes. My understanding of the RTA is that a tenant who breaks a lease early can be held liable for lost rental income if the landlord makes a reasonable effort and must rent the unit at a lower price. 6 months early x $50 less than original monthly lease = $300 owed to the landlord.

This is all assuming you can collect from the tenant. My last tenant in my rental condo was the kind of person that would be extremly difficult to collect anything from. There were lots of people chasing them for money and could not collect.

You are exactly right.

Personally, I own a townhouse I rent out.

I have a couple that signed a one year lease in Aug of 2009. The dude phoned Jan 15 and said "Cant afford it, we are leaving Jan 31st".

Ya dude, not going to happen.

With a lot of work I managed to rent it for Feb 15th BUT at $100 less. We went to arbitration and I was awarded $650.00 ($100 x 6.5 months) in "Loss of Rental Revenue".

Now...I could have just sat back not not rented the townhouse, but it would not have helped my case. You need to make a "concerted amount of effort" to rent the unit in order for you to have a valid argument during arbitration.

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by dinosaur

Now...I could have just sat back not not rented the townhouse, but it would not have helped my case. You need to make a "concerted amount of effort" to rent the unit in order for you to have a valid argument during arbitration.

In my friend's case, there was 7 months left and the owner found a new tenant for $50 per month less. 7 x $50 = $350

She was happy to pay that since she would save a lot more money buying her own place.

For the OP, would this not work in his favour too since the owner is breaking the lease agreement. What if his new place is $50 per month more the orginal's place?

[TouringTeg]

That makes sense. Yes you have to be able to prove you have made the effort to rent the unit. Btw once you were awarded the decision in your favor, did you or your company eventually receive payment?

I know we are getting off track here but let me put my situation to you and ask you would would happen.

My tenant had a lease until October 31st, 2011 for $1100 per month. On June 26th the tenant gave notice they had no money for rent for July and would be moving out July 9th. I only found out they were leaving because we received a fine for $200 for not carrying her pet on the common property (she had been warned before in writing). The signed tenancy agreement has an adendum that the tenant will be responsbile for paying all fines. They verbally offered to leave their damage deposit. They then changed their move out date by text to July 12th but moved out July 10th without notice and allowing no chance to notify strata. They did not clean the place and left belongings in the unit. Mostly junk.

After weeks of the tenant promising to return the keys, clean, etc. We gave 24 hrs notice to let them know we were going to inspect the unit. We determined the unit to be abandoned. We removed the items and am storing them for 60 days. We cleaned the place and luckily rented the unit at full price for August 1st sight unseen. New tenant has moved in.

I have not gone through the RTA yet. If I did, my thoughts are that I would be entitled to the $200 fine + $550 (half months rent) = total $750. There were additional costs incurred for parking pass $35 + mail key $10 + new locks $10 + parking garage Fob $75 = $130. I don't know if these could be recovered. What do you think?

[Gridlock]

Originally Posted by AME_VIP

dinosaur: What was the result with the smoke damage? Did they end up paying for repairs/remediation?

He's still in the building. He was working on cleaning it. He took full responsibilty for it, which shocked me a little. There is an interest in kicking him out-his rent is retardedly low, but at this point, I don't feel like re-doing the unit. Plus, evicting is such a pita.

He won't ever see his damage deposit, but that may cover the cost of the ridiculous amount of kilz I'm going to have to paint his place with.
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[dinosaur]

Originally Posted by AME_VIP

That makes sense. Yes you have to be able to prove you have made the effort to rent the unit. Btw once you were awarded the decision in your favor, did you or your company eventually receive payment?

I know we are getting off track here but let me put my situation to you and ask you would would happen.

My tenant had a lease until October 31st, 2011 for $1100 per month. On June 26th the tenant gave notice they had no money for rent for July and would be moving out July 9th. I only found out they were leaving because we received a fine for $200 for not carrying her pet on the common property (she had been warned before in writing). The signed tenancy agreement has an adendum that the tenant will be responsbile for paying all fines. They verbally offered to leave their damage deposit. They then changed their move out date by text to July 12th but moved out July 10th without notice and allowing no chance to notify strata. They did not clean the place and left belongings in the unit. Mostly junk.

After weeks of the tenant promising to return the keys, clean, etc. We gave 24 hrs notice to let them know we were going to inspect the unit. We determined the unit to be abandoned. We removed the items and am storing them for 60 days. We cleaned the place and luckily rented the unit at full price for August 1st sight unseen. New tenant has moved in.

I have not gone through the RTA yet. If I did, my thoughts are that I would be entitled to the $200 fine + $550 (half months rent) = total $750. There were additional costs incurred for parking pass $35 + mail key $10 + new locks $10 + parking garage Fob $75 = $130. I don't know if these could be recovered. What do you think?

First, you should go to the tenancy branch ASAP to ensure all paper work is filed correctly. In order for you to officially be able to keep the damage deposit, the tenant needs to give it to you in writing. If not, you need to file to keep it. If the tenant wants to be a bitch about it, she could go to the branch and say she did not get it back and she did not put it in writing that you could keep it. If she does this, you could owe TWICE the deposit back to her.

The tenant needs to give a full 30 days notice that she is moving. If she does not, she is obligated to pay for that month.

1. She owes you a FULL months rent for July. $1100.00.
2. If she signed the addendum, she owes you for it. $200.00
3. If she did not clean the apartment, the amount it cost you to clean it and/or repair any damage can be deducted from the damage deposit. If you cleaned it yourself, you can charge a reasonable amount hourly to clean (think $15-20/hour to clean).

Now here is the kicker: According the the RTA, if the tenant has a pet, it is mandatory for her to clean the carpets regardless of her length of stay.

4. All the property that she did NOT return (keyfob, parking pass, etc) she is required to pay to replace. BUT you can not charge her to change the locks unless the branch will acknowledge that you had no choice b/c she stole/took the keys.

Add all of these charges together ($1100+$200+$130+cleaning (and repairs that are above and beyond normal wear and tear)= $1430+cleaning

Deduct her deposit of $550.00 and you have $880.00 + cleaning that technically is owed to you.

-Did you take pictures of the un-clean unit?
-Do you have the receipts for carpet cleaning if you did so?
-Receipts from replacing the key fob, parking pass, etc (get one from strata) and for changing locks
-Do you have a copy of her rental agreement?
-Did she give you a letter saying she was leaving?
-**Do you have a forwarding address?** If you don't, you need to find it...any way possible. Phone her work, follow her home, take the license plate number...anything. If you do not have an address for her...you are fucked.

I can not stress enough how fast you need to go to the branch and file. You need to have all your ducks in a row...write everything down. You will need to get a "package" together for when she is served. You need a statement, copy of receipts, photos, the agreement plus addendum, etc. This package is sent to her, and the branch.

You can also add the $50 it cost you to file. If everything works out, you could have a cheque for<$880 coming in the mail....IF she pays with no problem. IF she doesn't, you file with small claims....annoying, but she deserves it.

And yes, I got my money without going to small claims.

[TouringTeg]

Thanks for the reply.

You are correct I need to file to keep the damage deposit.

As far as your questions:
-Did you take pictures of the un-clean unit? Yes, many digital pictures before it was cleaned
-Do you have the receipts for carpet cleaning if you did so? I did not have it done and new tenant was ok with it.
-Receipts from replacing the key fob, parking pass, etc (get one from strata) and for changing locks Yes I have all receipts
-Do you have a copy of her rental agreement? Yes
-Did she give you a letter saying she was leaving? No. It was over the phone. She refused to give me anything in writing including leaving the damage deposit
-**Do you have a forwarding address?** If you don't, you need to find it...any way possible. Phone her work, follow her home, take the license plate number...anything. If you do not have an address for her...you are fucked. This is why we haven't filed yet. She took off and it turns out she does not work where she and her reference said. I do have the license plate number so could possibly find out the new address

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by dinosaur

...

That's a lot of work, not just "$50 and watch you cry"

[sonick]

Update: So heard back from the agent, the owners are adamant in taking occupancy of the unit Sep 1st and will not hand over the keys. The agent did not bring up their response regarding the compensation to break the lease, so we're gonna file an official dispute resolution hearing with the RTB.

[Nlkko]

Originally Posted by sonick

Update: So heard back from the agent, the owners are adamant in taking occupancy of the unit Sep 1st and will not hand over the keys. The agent did not bring up their response regarding the compensation to break the lease, so we're gonna file an official dispute resolution hearing with the RTB.

Lol, what retards... Good luck with the dispute resolution.

[dinosaur]

Originally Posted by taylor192

That's a lot of work, not just "$50 and watch you cry"

This isn't about $50, its about $880+ and a lot of needless work that the owner got stuck with.

This guy already spent hours cleaning, showing the place, and putting up with the tenants bullshit. What is 2 more hours (max) of photocopying, typing a statement, and filling out a form at the RTA.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by sonick:7551113

Update: So heard back from the agent, the owners are adamant in taking occupancy of the unit Sep 1st and will not hand over the keys. The agent did not bring up their response regarding the compensation to break the lease, so we're gonna file an official dispute resolution hearing with the RTB.

good luck! I hope you stick it to them! More bad amateur landlords needing a lesson the hard way!

[dinosaur]

Originally Posted by AME_VIP

Thanks for the reply.

You are correct I need to file to keep the damage deposit.

As far as your questions:
-Did you take pictures of the un-clean unit? Yes, many digital pictures before it was cleaned
-Do you have the receipts for carpet cleaning if you did so? I did not have it done and new tenant was ok with it.
-Receipts from replacing the key fob, parking pass, etc (get one from strata) and for changing locks Yes I have all receipts
-Do you have a copy of her rental agreement? Yes
-Did she give you a letter saying she was leaving? No. It was over the phone. She refused to give me anything in writing including leaving the damage deposit
-**Do you have a forwarding address?** If you don't, you need to find it...any way possible. Phone her work, follow her home, take the license plate number...anything. If you do not have an address for her...you are fucked. This is why we haven't filed yet. She took off and it turns out she does not work where she and her reference said. I do have the license plate number so could possibly find out the new address

Dude, that's great! Looks like you will have a pretty solid case.

As for finding out where she live...seriously, try any thing you can. Is she still getting mail sent to her? When you are at the Branch, they may be able to help you. It may even be worth going to the cop station and tell them you need to serve papers on someone you dont have an address for....can they help. Try tracking the bitch down on facebook? I bull-shitted some reason for my ex-tenants to give me their address..."Yeah, I have some mail hear that came for you...looks like GST cheque or something...I'll just drop it in the mail for you..."

People like your previous tenant need to be held accountable for this shit. It is annoying when people get away with it and do it to the next place. It may seem like a pain in the ass sometimes, but really it is worth it. During my arbitration case I had to stop myself from laughing out loud as my ex-tenants stammered and stuttered their responses. fucking morons...

good luck with everything! sounds like you have a really good case Let me know how it goes!

[dinosaur]

Originally Posted by sonick

Update: So heard back from the agent, the owners are adamant in taking occupancy of the unit Sep 1st and will not hand over the keys. The agent did not bring up their response regarding the compensation to break the lease, so we're gonna file an official dispute resolution hearing with the RTB.

Wow! Well, they want to be dicks....be a dick back! Good for you and good luck!

I wonder if they are aware that they are breaking a contract. You have a copy right??

I am a little shocked that if you are dealing with agents/Realtor that they have not advised the landlords that they really can't do this.

Let us know what happens!

[sonick]

Update: So it sounds like the agent really fucked up here lol. The owner emailed us directly, saying that they actually emailed the agent on the Monday that we signed the papers informing that they would like to occupy the unit and not rent it out, but the agent let us sign the lease despite this.

The owner is in a situation where they really have legit reason to need the unit come Sep 1st, but since we really got screwed either way, with nearly a month wasted searching for apartments and ending up with nothing, plus being delayed likely until Oct 1st for move-in, we are still going to pursue the dispute resolution against the owner, but hopefully the agency will step in and just settle to avoid the mess that could happen if the RTB enforces the lease.

Fun times.

[drunkrussian]

wtf?! did the agent get the email same day then as they signed the lease so they didnt see it? or they blatantly ignored it? thats fucked up...

but if they have such a legit reason, im sure they wouldnt mind coughing up at least 1 month worth of rent for your trouble. otherwise theyre just trynna trll their story which nobody wants to hear. maybe u can negotiate some extra free benefit from the agent as well since they fucked up lol. such as waiving that fee for use of facilities for the year ;-)
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[sonick]

The agent is trying to pawn the blame and work off on us and the owners rather than owning up to it and sorting it out.

His other units in the building are not ones we want, so asking them for benefits on a unit is moot.

[Gridlock]

You know, the other day I had it typed that I didn't feel the story was right, and there was a possibility that it was the agent. I think it was right after you sent the compensation request, and it was ignored. I deleted it because I didn't really want to confuse the issue any further.

I think that this is destined to go to the branch. Everyone is going to toss you around like a hot potato. They'll definitely award you something for your trouble, and then they can fight out who pays it in the end.
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[Lomac]

If the agent messed up and not the actual owners (not sure about this since the agent may not have gotten the email until after the papers were signed), why not contact the agent's company itself and attempt to go after them instead? If the owners requested that the agency take the house off the market and the agent ignored it, it's no longer the owner's fault.

[Manic!]

No matter what the RTB does your not going to be living in the unit. The RTB might award you some money. If the owners refuse to pay you will have to take them to small clams court. This process will take months.

[quasi]

Originally Posted by Lomac

If the agent messed up and not the actual owners (not sure about this since the agent may not have gotten the email until after the papers were signed), why not contact the agent's company itself and attempt to go after them instead? If the owners requested that the agency take the house off the market and the agent ignored it, it's no longer the owner's fault.

If he has as a signed lease I still think it would be their responsibilty. The owner could then go after the agent to recoup. Although not exactly the samething I would compare it to someone owing you money and then saying Joe Blow owes me money so collect your money from him, you can't pass the buck like that. The lease is with the owner not the agent.