13 supercars impounded in Surrey?

[cressydrift]

Originally Posted by Marco911

All you idiots thinking these guys deserve to have their cars impounded and licenses revoked are just as bad as the commie thinking where these folks come from.

I don't think it is correct to broadly tarnish the actions of a few against the entire group, which is what the police have done here. If there are witness reports against a few cars, target those drivers which have been reported. To charge everyone and impound all the vehicles before all the evidence has been collected is an outrage.

Guilt by association.

These kids driving high speed weapons have no idea of what they could have done. Some of them may have been wrongfully accused but the police had to make an example out of them and put the msg out there that this will not be tolerated. Its not like they were at some industrial area at 3 am in the middle of no where with no one around and racing, they were on hwy 99 in the middle of RUSH HOUR traffic. Plus they were travelling as a group. The people that "weren't speeding" could have drove normally and distanced themselves from the GROUP.

Furthermore they can't let these guys off with a slap on the wrist because what kind of msg does that send to the public? I don't want my girl friend killed by some noob in a 500hp Lambo, or anyone street racing or speeding when shes driving home from work (RUSH HOUR) because he/she thinks there A. Senna and can get away with anything with no repercussions. This is why I choose not to drive like a dumb ass, because if I ever hit someones kid, parent, partner w.e I could never ever live it down. I was young too, and if I had one of these cars now or then it would be so hard not to drive it fast. You have to play by the rules though, see your opportunities, and be a man when caught.

With the whole impoundment issue, say someone was breaking into my house, and my friend down the road saw it and called the police, but when the police arrived the guy was already outside and didn't have anything on him. Did the police need to see him commit the act to arrest him? Would they believe the witness and trust him or would they say nope we didn't see him do it theres nothing we can do?

That is why I believe the impoundment of their cars is justified. Multiple witness reports, admission of guilt by Matt Z (Who I watched in the cul-d-sac below adessa drive like a dumb ass at the meet. NOT HIS FRIEND). Divers belonging to a club which promotes high speed driving, and the fact that most of the drivers had restricted licences with strict penalties regarding un-safe driving.

Plus now CTV is probably working on some stupid report titled " How safe are N drivers, should we have the driving age lifted to 40?" Fuck these kids and fuck CTV.

[LenovoTurbo]

Not surprised when the next RS meet happens, our Civics/Integras/240s/TSXs etc pre-meet group cruising to RS is going to get called in for street racing just because we are traveling in huge groups and look/sound fast.

Have your dash cams running lol.

[unit]

just wondering, did any of these guys deny that they were going 200?

[Tim Budong]

Originally Posted by unit

just wondering, did any of these guys deny that they were going 200?

Good question. I doubt it tho.
Posted via RS Mobile

[dangonay]

It would be good if the individuals who didn't do anything wrong (or weren't directly identified by witnesses) challenged this in court to get their tickets cancelled and impound fees returned (along with something extra for the hassle).

This would send a message to the cops that they can't apply the "guilty by association" reasoning to impound all of the cars and might make them think twice about it next time.


But you know that won't happen. These guys will pay the fines, pick up their cars and never bother to dispute or fight it. Because they don't give a fuck about the money and they sure as hell don't give a fuck about setting any sort of precedent that might help out one of us down the road if we find ourselves in a similar situation. They don't care about anyone or anything outside their little "bubble" they live in.

It's for that reason alone I'm glad they all got impounded, even if some of them didn't deserve it. If you don't stand up for yourself then you're a POS in my books and deserve whatever comes your way.

[dignatas]

Originally Posted by unit

just wondering, did any of these guys deny that they were going 200?

did you not hear mattzhangs testimonial statement the police stated? He claimed that some people were drag racing 200km where some was following and going in the limit. Basically ratting some guys and saying he didn't do it. HE DUN GOOF

[wstce92]

Originally Posted by cressydrift

Guilt by association.

These kids driving high speed weapons have no idea of what they could have done. Some of them may have been wrongfully accused but the police had to make an example out of them and put the msg out there that this will not be tolerated. Its not like they were at some industrial area at 3 am in the middle of no where with no one around and racing, they were on hwy 99 in the middle of RUSH HOUR traffic. Plus they were travelling as a group. The people that "weren't speeding" could have drove normally and distanced themselves from the GROUP.

Furthermore they can't let these guys off with a slap on the wrist because what kind of msg does that send to the public? I don't want my girl friend killed by some noob in a 500hp Lambo, or anyone street racing or speeding when shes driving home from work (RUSH HOUR) because he/she thinks there A. Senna and can get away with anything with no repercussions. This is why I choose not to drive like a dumb ass, because if I ever hit someones kid, parent, partner w.e I could never ever live it down. I was young too, and if I had one of these cars now or then it would be so hard not to drive it fast. You have to play by the rules though, see your opportunities, and be a man when caught.

With the whole impoundment issue, say someone was breaking into my house, and my friend down the road saw it and called the police, but when the police arrived the guy was already outside and didn't have anything on him. Did the police need to see him commit the act to arrest him? Would they believe the witness and trust him or would they say nope we didn't see him do it theres nothing we can do?

That is why I believe the impoundment of their cars is justified. Multiple witness reports, admission of guilt by Matt Z (Who I watched in the cul-d-sac below adessa drive like a dumb ass at the meet. NOT HIS FRIEND). Divers belonging to a club which promotes high speed driving, and the fact that most of the drivers had restricted licences with strict penalties regarding un-safe driving.

Plus now CTV is probably working on some stupid report titled " How safe are N drivers, should we have the driving age lifted to 40?" Fuck these kids and fuck CTV.

So if some guy gets his house broken into, neighbor sees a man dressed in dark clothing breaking into it; you happen to walk by on a night walk or whatever, cops come, neighbor points at you and says, hey that's the guy dressed in dark clothing who broke in. Then its ok for you to get arrested and questioned?

Yeah it seems stupid that if someone blatantly breaks into your house, but on the street by the time the cops get here, they don't get arrested. But you have to think about it from both ways. How unfair it is if you're out on a walk and end up getting arrested or even just questioned in a demeaning way because a neighbor can't tell white/yellow/brown/black people apart?

What if you're my neighbor and I hate your kid, and decide to vandalize my own car and tell the cops I saw your kid do it?

I'm not saying these kids didn't speed; in fact, I'd put money on the fact that they WERE blasting down the highway at high speed. BUT if a super car drives by you, going the speed limit, a few obnoxious taps on the throttle will sound like a rocket, and you too would think they were speeding. So regardless of how many witnesses claim they were speeding, you can't know for sure, and as a result, its complete bullshit for the impounding of their cars.

I bet you 99% of the average, non-police, population would perceive a Lambo going 80km/hr with the owner being obnoxious with the exhaust as faster than a Civic going 120km/hr.

[GabAlmighty]

Cliffs on thread direction?

[JD¹³]

Originally Posted by GabAlmighty

Cliffs on thread direction?

Posted via RS Mobile

[GabAlmighty]

do continue

[Lomac]

Guess I'll chime in, even though the thread is starting to die down. While I agree that if these guys were doing what the media is claiming they did (which, admittedly, isn't that hard to believe, though I know first hand just how distorted some of these reporters like to make their stories), then they should pay. However, I don't agree that their cars should be impounded based on eyewitnesses alone, especially when the officers haven't even talked to them prior to calling in the tow trucks.

A few years ago me and a few buddies from another car club were on a cruise to Banff for a car meet. We were rolling down the Trans-Canada when a cop car on the side of the road pulled all of us over just outside of Three Valley Gap. Apparently someone had called us in for "driving like idiots" (the cop's direct quote from what he was told by dispatch). Now the funny thing is that we genuinely weren't. We were all going with the flow of traffic, which admittedly was occasionally above the speed limit, but nothing we were doing could have been remotely considered dangerous or even slightly idiotic. The only thing distinguishing our cars from everyone else was that we were all in lowered sports cars with various forms of tuned exhausts and BOV's chirping. Nothing out of the ordinary was happening.

Now take all these new impounds happening. Our cars could have been towed away at the cops whim simply based on what someone said on the phone? It could have been something as simple as one of us accidentally cutting this person off that caused them to call in to complain about our convoy. Would that suddenly make it okay for the officer to impound all of our cars? No.

I think it's stupid that no new precedent will come out of this event because chances are some will simply drive without a licence (those with an N will get suspended, but hell... I doubt they'll care) and some will pay the fine and go on with their life. I doubt any of these guys will bother fighting the cars being impounded and that's a shame.

Again, I would like to stress that chances are they probably were doing enough shit to justify multiple people calling them in, but without actual proof, they shouldn't have had their cars impounded.

[observer]

Originally Posted by dignatas

did you not hear mattzhangs testimonial statement the police stated? He claimed that some people were drag racing 200km where some was following and going in the limit. Basically ratting some guys and saying he didn't do it. HE DUN GOOF

Probably wanted to be a police witness to attempt to have his charges dropped. Shows his character.

[Marco911]

Originally Posted by cressydrift

Guilt by association.

These kids driving high speed weapons have no idea of what they could have done. Some of them may have been wrongfully accused but the police had to make an example out of them and put the msg out there that this will not be tolerated.

Furthermore they can't let these guys off with a slap on the wrist because what kind of msg does that send to the public?

Get a clue on how the law works. The law doesn't "make an example" out of people who are innocent. If you want to live in such a society, move to a banana republic.

[Marco911]

Originally Posted by dangonay

But you know that won't happen. These guys will pay the fines, pick up their cars and never bother to dispute or fight it. Because they don't give a fuck about the money and they sure as hell don't give a fuck about setting any sort of precedent that might help out one of us down the road if we find ourselves in a similar situation. They don't care about anyone or anything outside their little "bubble" they live in.

You are probably right that these guys will just pay the fine if they could. Remember that they are all young and probably uneducated about how our justice system works. For the N drivers, who might lose their license because of this, I suspect they might dispute the ticket but the charges will never see traffic court and the cops will drop the charge.

If this happened to me, I would dispute, and after the charges are dropped, I would sue for all costs incurred.

[Marco911]

Originally Posted by dangonay

I agree they need better evidence to proceed further with these individuals (especially if they try to apply to seize their vehicles).

However, I don't agree with people's comments about drivers not making good witnesses. People have used the example that someone who doesn't like you could call in and report you and you could get a ticket/fine/whatever simply based on the word of an individual.

"There's a bunch of exotic cars driving erratically on HWY 99. There's a Maserati and an AM blocking traffic and a GTR racing a Lambo at speeds over 200. There's an R8, a couple of Skylines, a Ferrari, Lambo....."

Which drivers should be charged? All of 'em? The witnesses will fall for "guilt by association" too, just like everyone else in this thread until I pointed out that these people needed to be treated like individuals who commit individual infractions.

[MDMA]

These kids dun goofed pretty bad
Posted via RS Mobile

[dangonay]

Originally Posted by Marco911

You are probably right that these guys will just pay the fine if they could. Remember that they are all young and probably uneducated about how our justice system works. For the N drivers, who might lose their license because of this, I suspect they might dispute the ticket but the charges will never see traffic court and the cops will drop the charge.

If this happened to me, I would dispute, and after the charges are dropped, I would sue for all costs incurred.

I always fight or dispute anything that happens to me, whether it be through small claims court or traffic court. Though I've never had to dispute anything traffic related in over 10 years simply because I don't drive like a dick.

Originally Posted by Marco911

"There's a bunch of exotic cars driving erratically on HWY 99. There's a Maserati and an AM blocking traffic and a GTR racing a Lambo at speeds over 200. There's an R8, a couple of Skylines, a Ferrari, Lambo....."

Which drivers should be charged? All of 'em? The witnesses will fall for "guilt by association" too, just like everyone else in this thread until I pointed out that these people needed to be treated like individuals who commit individual infractions.

No, of course not.

For example, several of those cars had personalized plates - easy to spot and remember. If more than one person called giving the same license plate/vehicle description then I think that's enough. If two cars were blocking traffic, I think the odds those cars had their license plates taken down would be very high. How fast the cars in front were going is irrelevant - that would be enough to charge the blockers in my books. If the speeders were in front of the blockers and waited before taking off in a race, and had their plates taken down as well, then I also think that's enough to charge them with racing regardless of how fast they actually went.

If the witnesses were in court (which they would be required to do if things were challenged) a defense lawyer could tear them a new one pretty quick if they were being vague and couldn't identify a specific car.

[Araaadi]

Posted via RS Mobile

[Marco911]

Originally Posted by dangonay

I always fight or dispute anything that happens to me, whether it be through small claims court or traffic court. Though I've never had to dispute anything traffic related in over 10 years simply because I don't drive like a dick.


No, of course not.

For example, several of those cars had personalized plates - easy to spot and remember. If more than one person called giving the same license plate/vehicle description then I think that's enough. If two cars were blocking traffic, I think the odds those cars had their license plates taken down would be very high. How fast the cars in front were going is irrelevant - that would be enough to charge the blockers in my books. If the speeders were in front of the blockers and waited before taking off in a race, and had their plates taken down as well, then I also think that's enough to charge them with racing regardless of how fast they actually went.

If the witnesses were in court (which they would be required to do if things were challenged) a defense lawyer could tear them a new one pretty quick if they were being vague and couldn't identify a specific car.

Haha. The blockers should be the last people that should be charged with an offense. Last time I drove on a Vancouver hwy, it seemed to be a common practice for morons to hog the left lane and drive beside a car on the right effectively doing the same thing as these blockers.

[odishaw]

^ lol i was just gunna say something along those lines. the blockers are the ones that are the least guilty out of the bunch if anything.

[rJZx]

If we were N drivers and we were given super cars with a dozen of our friends... im pretty sure we would do the exact same thing.

[falcon]

Originally Posted by MDMA

These kids dun goofed pretty bad
Posted via RS Mobile

Consequences will never be the same...

[dangonay]

Originally Posted by Marco911

Haha. The blockers should be the last people that should be charged with an offense. Last time I drove on a Vancouver hwy, it seemed to be a common practice for morons to hog the left lane and drive beside a car on the right effectively doing the same thing as these blockers.

You're comparing stupid slow drivers who don't move over to a pair of conspiring drivers who specifically hold up traffic for a single purpose (to let their buddies have a race)?

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by Lomac

Guess I'll chime in, even though the thread is starting to die down. While I agree that if these guys were doing what the media is claiming they did (which, admittedly, isn't that hard to believe, though I know first hand just how distorted some of these reporters like to make their stories), then they should pay. However, I don't agree that their cars should be impounded based on eyewitnesses alone, especially when the officers haven't even talked to them prior to calling in the tow trucks.

We don't know if that's the case, though. We have a few brief, sensationalistic news stories to draw from, none of which are likely to have all the facts, and few of which are likely even providing all the facts they DO have.

We don't know if some of the witnesses were off-duty cops or other people who would be trained and/or experienced in estimating speed. We don't know if air support got there in time to still see some of them speeding. We don't know whether traffic cameras were employed to watch their movements - it would be really easy to estimate speeds based on the known distance between two cameras.

We do know that most of them were finally stopped on White Rock surface streets; however, we don't know whether some of them were still speeding and/or trying to avoid the cops, because that's not as spectacular a story as the "200km/h street racing in rush hour" aspect.

A few years ago me and a few buddies from another car club were on a cruise to Banff for a car meet. We were rolling down the Trans-Canada when a cop car on the side of the road pulled all of us over just outside of Three Valley Gap. Apparently someone had called us in for "driving like idiots" (the cop's direct quote from what he was told by dispatch). Now the funny thing is that we genuinely weren't. We were all going with the flow of traffic, which admittedly was occasionally above the speed limit, but nothing we were doing could have been remotely considered dangerous or even slightly idiotic. The only thing distinguishing our cars from everyone else was that we were all in lowered sports cars with various forms of tuned exhausts and BOV's chirping. Nothing out of the ordinary was happening.

Now take all these new impounds happening. Our cars could have been towed away at the cops whim simply based on what someone said on the phone? It could have been something as simple as one of us accidentally cutting this person off that caused them to call in to complain about our convoy. Would that suddenly make it okay for the officer to impound all of our cars? No.

There's a big difference between one person phoning in... and many, possibly dozens of people phoning in.

I know a guy who was busted once just outside of Whistler after *at least* a dozen people phoned in complaints of him passing on double lines, passing on the right, generally driving like an idiot... keep in mind that this was some 23 years ago, when the highway was a lot narrower, a lot more winding, a lot more dangerous... and every single person who wanted to complain would have had to find a pay phone to stop at.

Again, I would like to stress that chances are they probably were doing enough shit to justify multiple people calling them in, but without actual proof, they shouldn't have had their cars impounded.

But again, we DON'T KNOW how much actual proof/evidence there was/wasn't. Unless you have access to police reports that the rest of us don't....

[Jayhall]

wow, so many people want these peoples licences revoked, jail time ect. I hope you all find yourselve in a situation where you are wrongfully accused and have the book thrown at you. Whether these guys and gal were speeding or not, there has to be proof. IF THERE IS PROOF they totally deserve what ever harsh punishment they get.

I got this exact ticket once upon a time, so did 12 other drivers I was driving with. We were also going to get food. We had a couple complaints for one reason or another and we were blanketed with the same $196 fine and 6 points. When my day in court came I didnt even get a chance to say "not guilty" The judge had me identify myself and the cop said "Id like to enter a plea of no evidence" I walked, so did everyone else. Funny enough air 1 did follow us that night, and 1 week later at a REVSCENE meet I spoke to the pilot who admited we didnt break the law beyond "minor speeding"

Again, yes they deserve punishment. But this is Canada they have to be proven guilty before that happens. Im on their side until they are proven guilty. AND if they did what they are being accused of, I hope they get what they deserve.