13 supercars impounded in Surrey?

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by ilvtofu

P.S. I want to hear what the province bandwagon commenters are saying now along with groups like RTR (resist the race) who spoke out against these drivers.

Its comical that people who post in the Police forum looking to get off a ticket on a technicality are berated, yet we're celebrating it as justice here.

They are getting off cause they were not caught, not cause they are innocent. You're acting like a bunch of people all collectively decided "fuck these kids in their nice cars, I'm calling the cops to report them racing so I can see their cars towed" when the kids were doing noting wrong.

[InvisibleSoul]

Originally Posted by taylor192

Its comical that people who post in the Police forum looking to get off a ticket on a technicality are berated, yet we're celebrating it as justice here.

They are getting off cause they were not caught, not cause they are innocent. You're acting like a bunch of people all collectively decided "fuck these kids in their nice cars, I'm calling the cops to report them racing so I can see their cars towed" when the kids were doing noting wrong.

The difference here is there is no proof of who did what.

You're speaking as if every single member of the group are guilty of every single alleged violation that was assessed.

Do you, or the police, or anyone else for that matter, know the facts?

Maybe a few of them did drive irresponsibly. Maybe half of them drove irresponsibly. But do you know who did, and who didn't?

It would piss me off to no end if I was part of the group, but made the conscious decision to not do anything illegal, but then still got slapped with tickets, towing, impoundment, and driving suspensions.

[ilvtofu]

Originally Posted by taylor192

Its comical that people who post in the Police forum looking to get off a ticket on a technicality are berated, yet we're celebrating it as justice here.

They are getting off cause they were not caught, not cause they are innocent. You're acting like a bunch of people all collectively decided "fuck these kids in their nice cars, I'm calling the cops to report them racing so I can see their cars towed" when the kids were doing noting wrong.

You can't rule out the possibility that these "witnesses" exaggerated. I agree that there is a chance that the claims against these drivers are true but I am talking about the attackers online who so quickly jumped to conclusions and voiced their negative opinions.

You're completely ignoring that a shaming process took place when these cops gave themselves the right to impound these cars, suspend licenses, issue tickets, make public statements, etc. and through their actions that have already been deemed unreasonable, the opinions of many who have spoken out against these drivers have been so biased.

The media themselves stress that these drivers were young, N licenses, exotic cars, and make definite statements like "A group of street racers in high-end cars who whipped along Highway 99 in August at speeds up to 200 kilometres an hour" without mentioning any likelihood of doubt, all clearly to turn the public against said drivers.

Now that the supreme court has pretty much discredited the evidence and expressed their disapproval to the police action taken, the commenters hiding behind their keyboard will think twice about trash talking these drivers with the same confidence they had before.

Don't get me wrong I think you have a very valid point, and I am not grouping everyone who has voiced against the drivers together, but please just take a look at the province comments I linked and you'll know who the mindless finger-waggers are

[!LittleDragon]

I'm glad they got off. It's true public streets shouldn't be used as a race track, etc... but it's scarier to think that you can be convicted because someone accused you of speeding. I pretty much stopped going to car meets and cruises a long time ago because there would always be a number of cars that speed off into the twisties. I would go out of my way to obey speed and traffic laws but I was always worried I would get slapped with a ticket simply because I was with them.

[68style]

Originally Posted by taylor192

If you think that's justice, then please refrain from responding to any thread where yet another crime goes unpunished cause of our weak justice system. They are not innocent, and this is not justice.

I'm not OK with kids using our highways as race tracks, and not OK with them getting away with it - regardless of how much money they have or what they drive.

I posted several times before that this case will depend on the credibility of the witnesses, and its sad that none were willing to step forward to testify. Without witnesses, there is no case, sadly.

Hey, Taylor, for a guy so interested in facts and semantics, you sure don't use very many of them. Were you there? Were you an eye witness?

Perhaps your statements would look better if you used them the same way the police should have: GIVEN the type of cars that were there and ASSUMING the type of driving people that age would do with those sorts of cars they PROBABLY were speeding.

You didn't see them do anything wrong did you? Then stop saying you did... because guess what? The average fucktwat driving on the road has no idea what "excessive speed" is and lots of people just like to be douches and complain about anything that aggravates them, and rich kids with nicer cars than them would definitely aggravate a lot of people. If one of those witnesses had specific training in determining the speed of a moving vehicle then sure, I'd consider their eyewitness testimony valid.

Fact of the matter is, the RCMP never radar gunned anyone, and they didn't see the drivers committing the acts they supposedly committed... so there is NO case and they should have never been towed or impounded or ticketed in the first place.

Nobody is saying they weren't doing anything wrong, but they didn't get caught... do you drive 50km/h everywhere you drive in your Fast&Furious Mercedes? I don't think so. Stop being captain preachy pants on your high horse, if you think getting punished for crimes based on heresay of others isn't setting a dangerous precedent you're high as a kite.

Better yet, send me a PM and let me know where you're driving tomorrow okay? I'll call the police and tell them I saw you going 160km/h down one of the city streets you will be driving on and they'll take 1 look at your car and impound it based on my word. Are you okay with that? You should be, because I bet you will speed tomorrow... maybe not 160km/h, but hey, I'm not a trained eye, so it kinda looked like it because your car is modified and you're not that old.

Use your head man and just admit you're logic is fucked on this topic. Nobody likes to see stupid punk rich kids get away with shit, but the police were DEAD WRONG on the way they handled this one.

[GG]

^

thank you!!!

My god reading some of these ignorant statement makes me feel that some of you dont have a brain.


the police had no evidence to begin with, this whole bullshit got blown out of proportion since day 1. Whether it was the media or cock sucker motherfuckers on this board supporting these people gets punished. Punish what? they never got caught, the police never had them. SO wtf is there to punish? OH right couple bitch ass people in their prius saw exotics passing by them in a LOUD manner, therefore lets take away their toys and send them to jail? WTF u aint no motherfucking pigs, who are you to judge? IN case some of u dont know, pigs power trip on so many occasion.


Im glad king kong aint got shit on these guys, no proof? case closed bitches
its that simple
it aint even a debate


PS

everyone fucking speeds

whoever try to play innocent than you are either A full of shit, B never drive on public roads before

EVeryone fucking does 60-70km in the city

EVeryone fucking does 100-110km on hwy 1 regardless the gay speed limit 70-80km




Its not what you know, its what you can proof in court


DONt know why some people need to get all work up hating on young kids who drive nice cars. Why dont u blame god or ur parents for making u poor? if their dad wants to blow 1 mill on their kids thats their choice, they can do watever the fuck they want with their money.

[ilvtofu]

Originally Posted by Tequilabomb

PS

everyone fucking speeds

whoever try to play innocent than you are either A full of shit, B never drive on public roads before

EVeryone fucking does 60-70km in the city

EVeryone fucking does 100-110km on hwy 1 regardless the gay speed limit 70-80km

DONt know why some people need to get all act up hating on young kids who drive nice cars. Why dont u blame god or ur parents for making u poor? if their dad wants to blow 1 mill on their kids thats their choice, they can do watever the fuck they want with their money.

Lol not everyone speeds, just everyone in the lower mainland! haha
and it's obvious that the typical can't-think-for-himself braindead north american morons would side against these kids, they are just that easy to hate. Everyone has their biases/preconceived notions and I'm not surprised at all that most people want these kids to be found guilty/had what was coming.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by Tequilabomb

the police had no evidence to begin with, this whole bullshit got blown out of proportion since day. Whether it was the media or cock sucker motherfuckers on this board supporting these people gets punished. Punish what? they never got caught, the police never had them. SO wtf is there to punish? OH right couple bitch ass people in their prius saw exotics passing by them in a LOUD manner, therefore lets take away their toys and send them to jail? WTF u aint no motherfucking pigs, who are you to judge? IN case some of u dont know, pigs power trip on so many occasion.

So... if a bunch of bad-ass seniors beat the fuck out of you with their canes, and the cops witness it, then it's legitimate for your attackers to be arrested and charged... but if the only witnesses are a couple of dozen people on the street, well, the charges should be dropped, because hell, those people aren't cops, they certainly wouldn't know a shit-kicking if they saw one going on, right? Even if none of the witnesses knows each other and every one of them calls the cops and tells them the same story about a bunch of silverhairs laying beaters on this douche kid on the sidewalk... they can't possibly have any credibility, right?

[gars]

I'm going to stay neutral on this matter. I know that there was no proof, but it's funny how polarized this topic is. Some people are saying these kids deserved everything, others are saying that because it's the public that called it in and they're untrained, that they must be exaggerating.

I don't have any training, but I can tell you if I'm going 110 (in the 80km/h "gay speed limit" zones), if somebody is zooming past me going 180km/h, it's easy to tell they weren't just goin 30 over the limit.

But hey, I wasn't there. I know what real justice is in Canada, and the judge was right to overturn the ruling. Funny how the one guy tried to appeal it a day late and it didn't get to court.

[sekin67835]

Originally Posted by gars

I'm going to stay neutral on this matter. I know that there was no proof, but it's funny how polarized this topic is. Some people are saying these kids deserved everything, others are saying that because it's the public that called it in and they're untrained, that they must be exaggerating.

I don't have any training, but I can tell you if I'm going 110 (in the 80km/h "gay speed limit" zones), if somebody is zooming past me going 180km/h, it's easy to tell they weren't just goin 30 over the limit.

But hey, I wasn't there. I know what real justice is in Canada, and the judge was right to overturn the ruling. Funny how the one guy tried to appeal it a day late and it didn't get to court.

Semi Off-topic question

Say that the witness's testimony was valid.

EG.

"I was going 120km/hr that time. He pasted by me really quick at 180km/hr"

say legal limit was 90km/hr

how about 80km/hr (breaking the 40 km/hr limit)
would the witness get hit with a speeding ticket?

[Great68]

Originally Posted by Soundy

So... if a bunch of bad-ass seniors beat the fuck out of you with their canes, and the cops witness it, then it's legitimate for your attackers to be arrested and charged... but if the only witnesses are a couple of dozen people on the street, well, the charges should be dropped, because hell, those people aren't cops, they certainly wouldn't know a shit-kicking if they saw one going on, right? Even if none of the witnesses knows each other and every one of them calls the cops and tells them the same story about a bunch of silverhairs laying beaters on this douche kid on the sidewalk... they can't possibly have any credibility, right?

The police gather evidence to corroborate the witnesses and victim's stories.

If you remember, they tried to do this with the alleged street racers (IE Reviewing tunnel video cam tape) and came up with nothing.

Talk about a stupid analogy.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by Great68

The police gather evidence to corroborate the witnesses and victim's stories.

If you remember, they tried to do this with the alleged street racers (IE Reviewing tunnel video cam tape) and came up with nothing.

That doesn't mean that charges can't be laid and convictions can't be made based solely on witness statements... it just means that having video of the incident makes prosecution easier.

If one person says he saw something happen, that might be questionable.

If a dozen people say they saw the same thing happen... it SHOULDN'T require video, or police witnessing the event. The same applies whether it's a street race or a beating. Other people on the road may not be able to estimate speeds to within half-a-km/h, but unless they're all completely blind, I'm pretty sure they'd be able to tell whether someone on the street corner is getting a beating... and by the same token, be able to determine whether a bunch of really obvious cars are doing really obviously stupid things and going really obviously stupidly fast.

Talk about a stupid analogy.

Do you even know what an "analogy" is?

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by Soundy

That doesn't mean that charges can't be laid and convictions can't be made based solely on witness statements... it just means that having video of the incident makes prosecution easier.

If the JP has half a brain, charges will not be laid on circumstantial evidance and even less likely a conviction.

With the phone calls about reckless drivers, the police will then start an investigation and collect evidence. Since video was inconclusive, and no one was actually caught speeding, then all that is left is the circumstantial evidence. From what I gather based on the article, all the witnesses testimonies were along the line of "a bunch of douches driving daddy's car very fast down the highway" but at no point was it ABC car with XYZ plates doing XXXmph down the highway or XYZ car with ABC plates blocking the highway so their friends can in car 123 with plates 789 can race another car.

What makes it even more difficult to convict with is that every person's testimony pretty much has to match. The minute an "I think this happened" or a different car was mentioned, then that all goes out the window.

Imagine 10 people witness a kidnapping. 3 of the people said the kidnapper was a white guy. Another 3 witnesses said the kidnapper was asian guy. 3 other witnesses says it might have been a women because of the long hair.
The last witness says it might have been 2pac. Without collaberating evidence, it is really hard to get a conviction.

[gars]

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

If the JP has half a brain, charges will not be laid on heresay and even less likely a conviction.

With the phone calls about reckless drivers, the police will then start an investigation and collect evidence. Since video was inconclusive, and no one was actually caught speeding, then all that is left is heresay evidence. From what I gather based on the article, all the witnesses testimonies were along the line of "a bunch of douches driving daddy's car very fast down the highway" but at no point was it ABC car with XYZ plates doing XXXmph down the highway or XYZ car with ABC plates blocking the highway so their friends can in car 123 with plates 789 can race another car.

What makes heresay even more difficult to convict with is that every person's testimony pretty much has to match. The minute an "I think this happened" or a different car was mentioned, then that all goes out the window.

Imagine 10 people witness a kidnapping. 3 of the people said the kidnapper was a white guy. Another 3 witnesses said the kidnapper was asian guy. 3 other witnesses says it might have been a women because of the long hair.
The last witness says it might have been 2pac. Without collaberating evidence, it is really hard to get a conviction.

I don't think you know what the definition of hearsay is. Hearsay is if person B hears Person A say he witnessed a crime. Person B cannot provide evidence to the court about the crime.

Person A (in this case, the people who called in to the police after witnessing the speeders) is allowed to testify in court. Their testimony is not hearsay.

Whether or not their testimony will lead to a conviction is another issue. As well - this is assuming these people are willing to testify in court, and if the police are willing to call them as witnesses.

[StylinRed]

cant believe this issue is still on going

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by gars

I don't think you know what the definition of hearsay is. Hearsay is if person B hears Person A say he witnessed a crime. Person B cannot provide evidence to the court about the crime.

Person A (in this case, the people who called in to the police after witnessing the speeders) is allowed to testify in court. Their testimony is not hearsay.

Whether or not their testimony will lead to a conviction is another issue. As well - this is assuming these people are willing to testify in court, and if the police are willing to call them as witnesses.

You are correct. The proper term I should have used was circumstancial evidence.

[originalhypa]

Lots of interesting points have been made here. I have to admit, this has been a good topic of conversation, and it looks like it's not going to end anytime soon.

[Great68]

Originally Posted by Soundy

That doesn't mean that charges can't be laid and convictions can't be made based solely on witness statements... it just means that having video of the incident makes prosecution easier.

If one person says he saw something happen, that might be questionable.

If a dozen people say they saw the same thing happen... it SHOULDN'T require video, or police witnessing the event. The same applies whether it's a street race or a beating. Other people on the road may not be able to estimate speeds to within half-a-km/h, but unless they're all completely blind, I'm pretty sure they'd be able to tell whether someone on the street corner is getting a beating... and by the same token, be able to determine whether a bunch of really obvious cars are doing really obviously stupid things and going really obviously stupidly fast.

Whatever. Theoretical situations aside, in THIS case a BC Supreme Court Justice found how the situation was handled as being wrong.

I'll hold a Supreme court Judge's opinion as much more valid over yours any day.

[sindragon]

are you guys sure the supreme court doesn't roam RS?? He striped a police officer

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by 68style

You didn't see them do anything wrong did you? Then stop saying you did... because guess what?

Fact of the matter is, the RCMP never radar gunned anyone, and they didn't see the drivers committing the acts they supposedly committed... so there is NO case and they should have never been towed or impounded or ticketed in the first place.

Where did I say I did? I have repeatedly said the outcome will depend on the witnesses, and they have chosen not to testify so there is no case.

The police don't have to witness a crime for someone to be charged if they have sufficient evidence like a couple credible witnesses. I would be interested to see what would have happened if the witness did come forward.

Originally Posted by 68style

The average fucktwat driving on the road has no idea what "excessive speed" is and lots of people just like to be douches and complain about anything that aggravates them, and rich kids with nicer cars than them would definitely aggravate a lot of people. If one of those witnesses had specific training in determining the speed of a moving vehicle then sure, I'd consider their eyewitness testimony valid.

The average person can tell the difference between the speed limit and 40+ over. It usually starts with "holy fuck..." as the car flys past.

This city has a lot of kids with a lot of nice cars, and this is the first time we've heard of a coordinated attack by multiple callers intent on seeing them fucked over. If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.

Originally Posted by 68style

Nobody is saying they weren't doing anything wrong, but they didn't get caught...

If that was the language they were using, I'd be OK with that. Yet they are celebrating they got away with it, and we can both agree that's not right.

Originally Posted by 68style

Better yet, send me a PM and let me know where you're driving tomorrow okay? I'll call the police and tell them I saw you going 160km/h down one of the city streets you will be driving on and they'll take 1 look at your car and impound it based on my word. Are you okay with that? You should be, because I bet you will speed tomorrow... maybe not 160km/h, but hey, I'm not a trained eye, so it kinda looked like it because your car is modified and you're not that old.

Use your head man and just admit you're logic is fucked on this topic. Nobody likes to see stupid punk rich kids get away with shit, but the police were DEAD WRONG on the way they handled this one.

If you used your head, you'd realize I'm a single driver and you're a single caller. This example is about a group of cars and a group of callers - thus reducing the risk that its just hearsay from some old man out to get a kid in a nice car.

That is, unless you believe it was a coordinated attack, which hopefully you don't.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by ilvtofu

You can't rule out the possibility that these "witnesses" exaggerated. I agree that there is a chance that the claims against these drivers are true but I am talking about the attackers online who so quickly jumped to conclusions and voiced their negative opinions.

Fair enough. Hopefully you've noticed I haven't attacked the kids for their wealth or their cars.

Originally Posted by ilvtofu

You're completely ignoring that a shaming process took place

I am cause I believe the police need to do their job.

I have had a cop car pull up onto the sidewalk infront of me to have a couple cops jump out and question me, wanting to go through my belongings. Downtown Ottawa, not fun, lots of people around - I felt embarrassed as hell. They were searching for someone matching my description for god knows what.

It sucks I got singled out, shamed infront of many, yet the police need to be able to do their job to keep us all safe, and sometimes that means inconveniencing us, and sometimes they get it wrong.

Originally Posted by ilvtofu

The media themselves stress that these drivers were young, N licenses, exotic cars, and make definite statements like "A group of street racers in high-end cars who whipped along Highway 99 in August at speeds up to 200 kilometres an hour" without mentioning any likelihood of doubt, all clearly to turn the public against said drivers.

You should have read the articles when the Ontario street racing law first came out. Any speed trap would be quoted saying "caught street racers" when really they caught some soccer moms speeding in minivans.

Lets just say the media sucks.

Originally Posted by ilvtofu

Don't get me wrong I think you have a very valid point, and I am not grouping everyone who has voiced against the drivers together, but please just take a look at the province comments I linked and you'll know who the mindless finger-waggers are

Yep, lots of ignorance in comments on this issue everywhere - that's why I have tried to stay away from the person and look at the case, and thanks for noticing that.

[ilvtofu]

What is being celebrated is the fact that the supreme court still values due process and the RCMP was knocked down a peg for proceeding with actions that were completely uncalled for and premature. It's not whether this happened or not its the fact that they can't be impulsively laying all these charges and impounding cars, this could've happened to anyone and we are not celebrating that these punks got away, but rather, a win for the Canadian justice system in terms of fairness.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by ilvtofu

What is being celebrated is the fact that the supreme court still values due process and the RCMP was knocked down a peg for proceeding with actions that were completely uncalled for and premature. It's not whether this happened or not its the fact that they can't be impulsively laying all these charges and impounding cars, this could've happened to anyone and we are not celebrating that these punks got away, but rather, a win for the Canadian justice system in terms of fairness.

Ottawa teen convicted in deadly street racing case - Ottawa - CBC News

Witnesses in this case testified, and the judge accepted that the average person can tell the difference between 50 and 100+ kmph.

Thankfully none these 13 cars suffered the same fate, yet if they did I bet a lot of the people celebrating would be singing a different tune.

[InvisibleSoul]

Originally Posted by taylor192

Thankfully none these 13 cars suffered the same fate, yet if they did I bet a lot of the people celebrating would be singing a different tune.

What fate?

Is this just a circular argument or what?

If there was a credible and reliable witness that can state exactly which cars did what, this is a whole different story.

Fact of the matter is it's not just that no witnesses cared to step up, it's probably that none of them were able to provide enough detail to determine which car did what.

Again, if there is any doubt that there may have been SOME participants in the group that did NOT perform any illegal activities, you can NOT condemn every single member of the group because they MAY have performed illegal activities.

[Great68]

Originally Posted by InvisibleSoul

Again, if there is any doubt that there may have been SOME participants in the group that did NOT perform any illegal activities, you can NOT condemn every single member of the group because they MAY have performed illegal activities.

That's a good point, that I've stated long ago in this thread.

I find it hard to believe that ALL 13 of these drivers were participating in the "racing" or "traffic blocking", which means that some were probably "guilty by association" when their cars got impounded.