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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
technically the boat has the right of way. It goes by what method of transportation was invented first
FAA rules
(a) General. Each person operating an aircraft on the water shall, insofar as possible, keep clear
of all vessels and avoid impeding their navigation, and shall give way to any vessel or other
aircraft that is given the right-of-way by any rule of this section.
=======
Funny enough if a train vs plane situation, the plane would have to yield to the train too. The only thing the plane doesn't have to yield to is cars
I wonder if a dude with a row boat vs that motorboat vs that plane. Then the row boat guy can sue everyone else as technically they are supposed to yield
technically the boat has the right of way. It goes by what method of transportation was invented first
FAA rules
(a) General. Each person operating an aircraft on the water shall, insofar as possible, keep clear
of all vessels and avoid impeding their navigation, and shall give way to any vessel or other
aircraft that is given the right-of-way by any rule of this section.
=======
Funny enough if a train vs plane situation, the plane would have to yield to the train too. The only thing the plane doesn't have to yield to is cars
I wonder if a dude with a row boat vs that motorboat vs that plane. Then the row boat guy can sue everyone else as technically they are supposed to yield
Seems there's some debate on this - as you said, technically the rule is the the boat has the right of way but not just by the book but whoever is on the starboard side has the right of way and the plane is considered a boat while it's taking off.
OTOH, I've heard that the area is considered restricted space that the boat isn't allowed to enter into and therefore the boat is in error. (Some has said this only applies when the plane is landing).
As well, there's also a rule/guideline that the vessel that is more capable of moving out of the way is responsible for doing so (eg. can't expect an oil tanker to move out of the way b/c they move so slowly).
In either case there's no way the pilot of the plane could have seen that boat - the plane is pitched up during takeoff and the sightlines means you're blind to whatever is in front of you.
That boat pilot is a huge idiot even if they are not deemed at fault.
That would be my nightmare .. passenger on a small float plane and it goes nose first into the water ... do passengers even wear life jackets or is it one of those, 'In case of emergency, your life jacket is under your seat ...' situations. I mean how many seconds would you have to reach for it, put it on, and pull the inflate string?
That would be my nightmare .. passenger on a small float plane and it goes nose first into the water ... do passengers even wear life jackets or is it one of those, 'In case of emergency, your life jacket is under your seat ...' situations. I mean how many seconds would you have to reach for it, put it on, and pull the inflate string?
Passengers don't wear life jackets - they're under the very small seats if you need them. Having flown float planes quite a bit it would have been really scary and probably a bit chaotic in the cramped cabin when they all went down - the pontoons were knocked off the plane so I would expect water to enter the cabin fairly quickly. You'd definitely would not have the same amount of time that you would on a commercial airliner to get to safety.
Try wearing a life jacket in an enclosed capsule in the water, and trying to get out the exit. Never mind if the exit is a few feet under water. Most people would likely inflate them before they get out. Lol!
ATC is going to have no control over pleasurecraft traffic. Rather just the aircraft flying in.
Who’s right in the situation? I have no idea, I think it may be a bit murky. Either way the boater is an idiot.
OTOH, I've heard that the area is considered restricted space that the boat isn't allowed to enter into and therefore the boat is in error. (Some has said this only applies when the plane is landing).
The issue I have with this argument is that there's no markings on any Transport Canada Maine charts that state this, not are there any markers or buoys out on the water that indicate this. The idea that it's forbidden for boats to be in this area also kind of falls apart when there's a gas dock that would be impossible to access without traveling through this zone.
That would be my nightmare .. passenger on a small float plane and it goes nose first into the water ... do passengers even wear life jackets or is it one of those, 'In case of emergency, your life jacket is under your seat ...' situations. I mean how many seconds would you have to reach for it, put it on, and pull the inflate string?
Do not inflate your life jacket until you’re clear of the plane. Otherwise you’ll go down with the plane.
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The issue I have with this argument is that there's no markings on any Transport Canada Maine charts that state this, not are there any markers or buoys out on the water that indicate this. The idea that it's forbidden for boats to be in this area also kind of falls apart when there's a gas dock that would be impossible to access without traveling through this zone.
It’s funny because I was actually thinking about this the other day right before this crash happened.
I’ve taken harbour air as well as smaller float planes from the south terminal, and I was thinking that it was weird in coal harbour there isn’t like a bouyed runway that boats stay out of for landings and take offs
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Dank memes cant melt steel beams
Aren't float planes just visually self controlled by the pilots? That's why they don't fly in heavy cloud I thought.
Vancouver Harbour Air Control Tower
Built in 1973 it remains the highest air traffic control tower in the world, in the city with one of the world's highest levels of seaplane activity.
In 2009 the tower handled 54,741 aircraft movements, the 32nd busiest control tower in Canada. It is also the 8th busiest airport in BC and the busiest water aerodrome in Canada.
There is indeed a restricted area in Coal Harbour ("Area Alpha") for seaplanes, but the restriction in question is that it is the only area in the BurrardInlet/EnglishBay/FalseCreek area in which seaplanes are allowed to land.
Although the boater may indeed be a moron, from a right-of-way standpoint, an airplane on floats in the water is to be treated exactly like any other powerboat.
And the onus is upon any power vessel maneuvering around or passing another vessel to avoid collisions.
Part of the shit side of being a float pilot is waiting endlessly to avoid oblivious boats that wander into your takeoff area - because they have every right to be there.
Just listen in to the harbour area air traffic control on a busy summer day and hear the quiet exasperation in the voices of the pilots as they are repeatedly warned by the tower about boat after boat after boat that gets in their way.
Sadly, in this case - there is a greater chance that the pilot and possibly Harbour ATC will get in more trouble than the boat operator.
It sounds like they do need to be cleared for takeoff. And if ATC is monitoring activity for takeoff, they should also be able to warn if a boat is suddenly entering the take off path. Not saying that would've saved anybody, but there's a chance.
I think all parties played a part here, but officially who gets blamed? who knows?
Aren't float planes just visually self controlled by the pilots? That's why they don't fly in heavy cloud I thought.
An air traffic controller will give verbal (and in this day and age, CPDLC aka texts messages to those A/C which are equipped, along with ATC agencies that are equipped) direction to try and maintain efficiency within their airspace. In an IFR environment (instrument, aka clouds) a controller needs to give a certain amount of clearance between aircraft. If the aircraft is operating under visual rules, it’s the aircraft’s responsibility to keep visual separation from other traffic, but the controller will still direct. The separation required is much less for VFR aircraft, as the pilots are taking more responsibility.
Coal harbour is busy so they have a controller. They will direct aircraft left right up down to line them all up so they have adequate space between take offs and landings.
I never flew floats, my intuition is they may give some awareness to boats around but that’s about it. It’s a big area to land, the plane will pick a spot and go for it. I could be wrong but….
… but back to your comment. It all depends on the airspace the plane is in. A VFR airplane is self controlled in an uncontrolled environment, most of the lower mainland is controlled no matter the rules you’re operating under. In the high north a VFR airplane can do whatever they want.
Every flight I’ve ever flown on float planes, from the large harbour air planes to 6 seaters has had the GPS way points you follow to your destination. Not sure how much that effects your visual flying if any or if that is considered a controlled environment because you are flying a set itinerary?
Float plane landings in smaller planes are super cool, hand pumping the hydraulics to adjust the flaps etc.
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Dank memes cant melt steel beams
Set way points are used in controlled (well all environments) VFR environments for point of reference. It use to be “Fly over UBC, join a long final” or something along those lines. UBC is a big place and for people not familiar not easy to navigate. GPS waypoints anyone can use, and are more specific.
It’s been 20 years since I’ve flown VFR in this part of the world. I’m so out to lunch with the rules I wouldn’t dare go fly in a little plane. Last time I flew VFR was 2008 in Nunavut, where you make up your own rules. Lol.
Serious injuries but not life threatening - both were from the boat. All passengers on the plane were fine.
Serious injuries is a light way to describe it when it looks like they got hit by a propeller spinning at the speed of sound. Makes you wonder how clueless the boaters are cause seaplanes are loud AF.
I bought the Pros earlier this year and wondered why I never got them sooner - it's much better than the various Samsung Buds I used over the years. The Buds were cheaper each (bought them when they went on sale), but people on the other end always had trouble hearing me.
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