The Official No Need To Start a New Thread, Thread

[68style]

Originally Posted by Traum

In your friend's case, if the job is awful and the renumeration isn't enough to cover mileage and the expenses incurred, nobody should have taken the job. When CP couldn't find anyone willing to do the work, they'd have to up the salary / renumeration package to make it more desirable. That is literally how the job market is supposed to work. Same thing applies to your claim that $32.50/hr wage is too low for Metro Vancouver or Toronto -- when it is indeed too low, people should quit the job and seek better opportunities. When the employer realizes that people are not willing to do the job bcos of the low wage, they have to up the salary (or make up some fake job requirements and hire TFW).

My friend used it as temporary employment until his teaching credentials from HK could be transferred over and he's now a public school teacher.

I was simply highlighting to you that it's not the gravy train you purported it to be when you're outside of anywhere resembling a population centre (not that it is inside any either). And skill wise, nor should it be.

You brought up me being in the feds, the pension argument is tiresome to be honest. You have to do 25 years for it to be worth anything man. 25 years. You think it's worth it to be a postal worker for 25 years to get a $30k a year pension (which is what you'd get at postal worker pay) that's kinda weird. Again, far from a gravy train.

[Tapioca]

My dad was a letter carrier for almost 30 years. It was a good job back in the 80s and 90s for someone like my dad with no hard skills and a high school education. It kept him in shape. It was a respected job in a different time.

He's living a dignified retirement with a defined benefit pension.

But, the business model has changed and mail service no longer serves our society in the way that it did a generation ago. It needs to exist to serve the 5-10% in Canada who need it, but the union has to be realistic and understand what the business is today.

[Hondaracer]

It’s sad that society has evolved to this point where professions like that are now viewed as inferior. Growing up I knew so many friends parents etc. that had more blue collar jobs like mechanics, letter carriers, carpenters etc. and never thought twice of it being inferior to a guy who puts a suit on and a briefcase.

Now the majority of society looks at a bus driver or a carpenter as some loser dirt ball, albeit most of those roles probably make as much if not more of the shitty low end “white collar” jobs

[Traum]

I'm familiar with the public sector pension. 2 years of work to become vetted -- I think that's the term. Then 2% per year of your salary added to the annual pension calculation, with "salary" being calculated as the top 5 earning years before retirement, with the maximum pension benefits being 70% of the calculated "salary". (First responders receive 3% per year.) And for someone with a spouse, the spouse is entitled to at least a 60% of the pension payments after the primary pensioner dies, unless the spouse explicitly opts out.

Whether it is a gravy train or not depends on the job, and how long you have been working in a position entitled to receive the pension. Naturally, it caters to someone who stays working in the public sector. For most people, I'd imagine it being something that ranges from their primary retired income to a useful supplement.

[Traum]

Why would I (or anyone sensible, for that matter) view blue collar / hands-on job as inferior? Salary differences don't make a job -- and definitely not the person -- inferior. It just requires different skill sets to do.

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

It’s sad that society has evolved to this point where professions like that are now viewed as inferior. Growing up I knew so many friends parents etc. that had more blue collar jobs like mechanics, letter carriers, carpenters etc. and never thought twice of it being inferior to a guy who puts a suit on and a briefcase.

Now the majority of society looks at a bus driver or a carpenter as some loser dirt ball, albeit most of those roles probably make as much if not more of the shitty low end “white collar” jobs

[Hondaracer]

You don’t think society does?

I was raised never thinking otherwise and even I find myself thinking that way sometimes.

I think even kids from “poor” families and young people with very little prospects in life see these as low end inferior employment that is below them

[westopher]

Literally the opposite has happened. People push kids into trades instead of accounting degrees, more co-op trades programs exist in high schools than ever before and 20 years ago when most of us were graduating we were told that if you don't go to university you will die from lack of success.
What is this bizarro world you are living in haha.

[Tapioca]

I don't think society views people who wear suits as superior these days. I wear sport jackets and button up shirts and it's not like people give me any more respect these days when I wear the corporate uniform.

It's a combination of blue collar people, contrarians and people who sound smart, like Joe Rogan, and Pantagonia wearing tech bros that have the power these days.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by westopher

Literally the opposite has happened. People push kids into trades instead of accounting degrees, more co-op trades programs exist in high schools than ever before and 20 years ago when most of us were graduating we were told that if you don't go to university you will die from lack of success.
What is this bizarro world you are living in haha.

I legit do not know a single person under 20 who wants to touch a trade outside of being forced into it unwillingly.

All of my wife’s cousins kids who are now 14-18 don’t want to work period and they all HATE their menial part time jobs. Even some of the older ones in mid-20’s etc. who are smart enough to be into finance and engineering are grasping onto dieing dreams of playing professional sports into their 30’s VS joining the workforce.

Even in the way younger kids say below 25 treat people in retail and restaurants, I’ve very rarely seen anyone treat people with respect lol

Look at the discussions we have here. It’s always somewhat tongue in cheek about sub 80k jobs you’re not going anywhere in life, but the younger generation can’t even dream about making 80k lol..

[MarkyMark]

With the way AI is going I'd be telling any kid to go get a trade as a career. Until they start building Terminator type robots that can climb over obstacles and repair things your job is as safe as it gets.

Whether the next generation actually wants to do this type of work is a different story.

[westopher]

The thing about younger kids is none of them want to work, and I'm not saying that in the boomer way like they are lazy, I'm saying that in the way that they are smart enough to know, if they aren't famous, or born rich, they are fucked in every career path regardless.
It's not apathy towards trades, it's apathy towards employed poverty.
Also, I'm not sure how "society" turned into the like 4 kids you'd know under 25 lol.
Those 18 year old kids and like "fuck trades I wanna work an office job" they are probably just like "fuck my life we're fucked"

[Hondaracer]

Well yea kinda one and the same no?

I’m more of a white collar myself these days but I go to a lot of construction sites and outside of the buddy guys, you almost never see kids there anymore. I remember when I first started working in construction there’d be 3-4 high school kids working part time or fresh out of school, can’t remember the last time I saw anyone under 30 on site

[Tapioca]

Being an influencer and content creator pays, while being on a construction site doesn't.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Well yea kinda one and the same no?

I’m more of a white collar myself these days but I go to a lot of construction sites and outside of the buddy guys, you almost never see kids there anymore. I remember when I first started working in construction there’d be 3-4 high school kids working part time or fresh out of school, can’t remember the last time I saw anyone under 30 on site

I mean, that's not the same as society looking down on trades though.
I think the most shit talk I've seen about trades workers on here has been you talking about buddy guy builders haha. But I totally get that's warranted and from a pride of work perspective.

[RabidRat]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

You don’t think society does?

I was raised never thinking otherwise and even I find myself thinking that way sometimes.

I think even kids from “poor” families and young people with very little prospects in life see these as low end inferior employment that is below them

I can't claim to know what people think outside of my social and professional circles, but no, not in my experience.

I think I was too sheltered growing up to realize there was any particular dividing line between jobs.

I was taught that jobs are ranked entirely by pay, and the level of job you get simply depends on how hard you work at school. Then at the end, you get what you get. But if you were lazy, you're on the streets: all those homeless people? simply didn't study hard enough. That B on your report card? Eat shit, you're gonna die at the curb.

So I've been indoctrinated with two principles:
1) Your success is determined by how hard you worked to earn it.
2) The job title itself is meaningless. It's what it pays.

Having grown up since, I've only really just added to #2: it's how much a sense of meaning, purpose, and personal challenge you derive from it.

My friends and family tend pretty heavily towards #2. Honestly they don't give a shit how you got there, it's that you got there. Are you making enough (do you have enough to eat?), and are you enjoying it (how are your days going by, are you happy)? Why would anything else matter?

---

Couple of other anecdotes:

I've had lots of genuine conversations with my tech coworkers out in the SF Bay Area, about how contractors are making a killing doing renovations & repair work, and maybe we should be getting into it because it seems like enjoyable rewarding work: results you can see with your eyes, and by your hands. While also paying the bills.

A good friend's dad was a carpenter and the only thing I ever thought about that was that it seemed so godly that someone could be so good crafting shit with their hands they could actually make money from it. I guess I thought of their job in an artisanal capacity.

To be completely honest though, I think with where AI is headed, we're only 1-2 generations away from hand / creative work being the only worthwhile thing left for a human being to do (both in terms of pay and purpose). I can't see how the technical details of my work in electrical design wouldn't be better and more consistently executed by algorithms. The only residual value I bring, if at all, is in the storytelling: linking our technical options to stories of forecasted customer experience (which is often pretty rooted in emotion, which is maybe just a little too abstract for machines to grok, for now).

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by westopher

Literally the opposite has happened. People push kids into trades instead of accounting degrees, more co-op trades programs exist in high schools than ever before and 20 years ago when most of us were graduating we were told that if you don't go to university you will die from lack of success.
What is this bizarro world you are living in haha.

It feels like there are more options than ever before for young people - when I went to SFU in the mid-late 90s it sure felt like you had to get into business school or you were gonna end up being nothing (I didn't get in). Computer Science was for the super nerds - those guys (and they were almost all guys) were social outcasts and you couldn't get rich writing code. A few folks stumbled into stuff like Kinesiology or Communications and found careers there.

Universities (and colleges) were stuck in a rigid model where trades weren't a real track of work (BCIT was looked down upon, Kwantlen was considered a place for people who couldn't cut it).

Now it feels like there are so many different tracks of work that lead to pretty solid careers if you want to do post secondary. The challenge is that if you don't go to post secondary the options are pretty terrible - the gap between the haves and have nots has never been bigger.

[noclue]

Office work has health problems sitting all day but trades is worse on your body. You need to either be a foreman or a business owner by 40 otherwise the physical toll on your body + all the fun industrial fumes you inhale wont lead to a long life

[GS8]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

all these fangirls/fanboys are weird. what kind of a retard idolizes another retard???

i don't even like jebus. fuck him and the cross he's hanging on.

The conspiracy theorist in me think it's a psyop to corral the retards in society to a giant mental playpen which keeps them distracted for almost 2 years while social and economic rights wither away. But at least you're listening to the 27th song about choosing the wrong guy!

----------

Confirmed on the radio by the people being interviewed:

Reporter: Why did you come here all the way from South Dakota?

Mom: I don't know!.....but also to bring my daughter to this exciting atmosphere

Reporter: What do you love most about Taylor Swift

Mom: She's just like me

Spoiler!

[underscore]

Originally Posted by RabidRat

I can't see how the technical details of my work in electrical design wouldn't be better and more consistently executed by algorithms.

It'll still need someone like you entering the variables correctly and verifying the output is correct. I don't know the specifics of your job but I've never met a PM or customer who would have much hope of doing something like that themselves.

[6793026]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

I legit do not know a single person under 20 who wants to touch a trade outside of being forced into it unwillingly.

All of my wife’s cousins kids who are now 14-18 don’t want to work period and they all HATE their menial part time jobs. Even some of the older ones in mid-20’s etc. who are smart enough to be into finance and engineering are grasping onto dieing dreams of playing professional sports into their 30’s VS joining the workforce.

Even in the way younger kids say below 25 treat people in retail and restaurants, I’ve very rarely seen anyone treat people with respect lol

Look at the discussions we have here. It’s always somewhat tongue in cheek about sub 80k jobs you’re not going anywhere in life, but the younger generation can’t even dream about making 80k lol..

I'm bias.
I never wanted to be in trades cause I'm asian and was taught + told trades are shit.
Told I'm asian fail if i don't go to college.

Then I see these group of guys who were jocks and super good with tools and they all became mechanics. Cars, airplane, helicopters etc.

I'm NOT in that group cause I was never in touch with trades. Asian were never the type where - oh my dad was a construction site manager, my dad was a builder.

I feel I'm bias and I'm blinded by my own culture.

When I was 14-18... yes I never wanted to walk at ALDO and touch people's feet, but it paid hte bills... I never wanted to work retail but dang that 200 check working $8/hr was good. It's all part of mentality.

DO I agree yeah people are lazier now.. sure. DO I feel KOL make a lot of money.. sure... at generation had their own thing.

[Badhobz]

Enjoy your lives while you still can fellow geezers! i can't imagine how inept gen alpha/beta will be at wiping our ass when we are 80. Hopefully, the robo-nurses will be invented before then

[Dbone]

*Sexy Robo-nurse.

[BIC_BAWS]

So some people on social media are saying that CoV shipped out all of the homeless people cause of the Swift concert lol. Streets are clean, homeless people are scarce, they haven't seen the streets this nice since 2010 lol.. oh wait.

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

[Hondaracer]

Yea they couldn’t let buddy with no legs be wheeling around in the vicinity of a billionaire

[westopher]

I hear Victoria is nice this time of year