Official Building/Upgrading thread

[Traum]

Standard question #1 -- did you get the most current and up-to-date mobo and video card drivers?

[Razor Ramon HG]

MSI Z97S SLI Krait Edition Motherboard Now Available

Definitely on my wishlist..

[PeP]

I just had someone put together a rig for me, is it worth it for $1250? I have a budget of $1500, anything worth upgrading? Will the performance gain justify the extra money spent?

CPU: Intel Core i5 I5-4460 Haswell 3.4GHZ Processor LGA1150 6MB Cache Retail
Cooler: Intel Upgraded CPU Cooler
Motherboard: ASUS H81M-A uATX LGA1150 H81 DDR3 1PCI-E16 2PCI-E1 SATA3 USB3.0 HDMI Motherboard
Memory: ADATA Xpg 8GB DDR3-1600 CL9-9-9-24 2 X 4GB Dual Channel Memory Kit Black
Storage: Solid State Kingston Series 120GB SandForce Solid State Disk Drive
Hard Drive Toshiba HDKPC09 2TB SATA3 7200RPM 32MB Cache 3.5in Internal Hard Disk Drive HDD
Video Card: XFX Radeon R9 290X 1000MHZ 4GB DDR5 DP HDMI 2XDVI Double Dissipation
Case: Fractal Design Core Series 3500 ATX Mid Tower Case With Window Black
Power Supply: Thermaltake 700w 80+ Bronze Cable Management ATX12V V2.3 24PIN Power Supply

This is him building/ordering it for me, would it a lot cheaper if I bought the parts myself and assembled it myself? It will be my first custom rig

[Razor Ramon HG]

Getting massively jew'd bro.

I can piece you together a better rig for a fraction of the price.

[ruthless]

Originally Posted by PeP

I just had someone put together a rig for me, is it worth it for $1250? I have a budget of $1500, anything worth upgrading? Will the performance gain justify the extra money spent?

CPU: Intel Core i5 I5-4460 Haswell 3.4GHZ Processor LGA1150 6MB Cache Retail
Cooler: Intel Upgraded CPU Cooler
Motherboard: ASUS H81M-A uATX LGA1150 H81 DDR3 1PCI-E16 2PCI-E1 SATA3 USB3.0 HDMI Motherboard
Memory: ADATA Xpg 8GB DDR3-1600 CL9-9-9-24 2 X 4GB Dual Channel Memory Kit Black
Storage: Solid State Kingston Series 120GB SandForce Solid State Disk Drive
Hard Drive Toshiba HDKPC09 2TB SATA3 7200RPM 32MB Cache 3.5in Internal Hard Disk Drive HDD
Video Card: XFX Radeon R9 290X 1000MHZ 4GB DDR5 DP HDMI 2XDVI Double Dissipation
Case: Fractal Design Core Series 3500 ATX Mid Tower Case With Window Black
Power Supply: Thermaltake 700w 80+ Bronze Cable Management ATX12V V2.3 24PIN Power Supply

This is him building/ordering it for me, would it a lot cheaper if I bought the parts myself and assembled it myself? It will be my first custom rig

Always cheaper, not too difficult either.
I think there's a few people in this thread that can give you a lot of pointers/help too.

[bobola]

Originally Posted by PeP

I just had someone put together a rig for me, is it worth it for $1250? I have a budget of $1500, anything worth upgrading? Will the performance gain justify the extra money spent?

CPU: Intel Core i5 I5-4460 Haswell 3.4GHZ Processor LGA1150 6MB Cache Retail
Cooler: Intel Upgraded CPU Cooler
Motherboard: ASUS H81M-A uATX LGA1150 H81 DDR3 1PCI-E16 2PCI-E1 SATA3 USB3.0 HDMI Motherboard
Memory: ADATA Xpg 8GB DDR3-1600 CL9-9-9-24 2 X 4GB Dual Channel Memory Kit Black
Storage: Solid State Kingston Series 120GB SandForce Solid State Disk Drive
Hard Drive Toshiba HDKPC09 2TB SATA3 7200RPM 32MB Cache 3.5in Internal Hard Disk Drive HDD
Video Card: XFX Radeon R9 290X 1000MHZ 4GB DDR5 DP HDMI 2XDVI Double Dissipation
Case: Fractal Design Core Series 3500 ATX Mid Tower Case With Window Black
Power Supply: Thermaltake 700w 80+ Bronze Cable Management ATX12V V2.3 24PIN Power Supply

This is him building/ordering it for me, would it a lot cheaper if I bought the parts myself and assembled it myself? It will be my first custom rig

That guy is ripping you off!!

For starter:
ChooseMyPC.net | Cookie Cutter PC Build Generator
Logical Increments - PC Buying Guide

Just DIY. Is not hard and you learn alot.

Just remember to save 100~300 for monitor(s) and some flashy mouse/keyboard if you dont have it already!

[PeP]

What do you guys think of this build; will everything be compatible? Any bottleneck issues? It's a little pricey, just over $1500 after taxes. Will the fan be enough for future overclocking? Any other suggestions/tips?

Mobo: MSI Z97-GD65 Gaming LGA 1150 Intel Z97 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K Haswell Quad-Core 3.4GHz LGA 1150 84W Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics BX80646I54670K

GPU: ASUS GeForce GTX 970 Strix OC 1253MHZ 4GB 7.0GHZ GDDR5 2xDVI HDMI DisplayPort PCI-E Video Card

SSD: Kingston SSDNow V300 Series SV300S37A/240G 2.5" 240GB SATA III Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

HDD: Seagate NAS HDD ST2000VN000 2TB 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s Internal Hard Drive

RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL

CPU Cooling: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - CPU Cooler with 120 mm PWM Fan

Case: Fractal Design Define R4 with Window Black Pearl Silent ATX Mid Tower Case

Power: CORSAIR CXM series CX600M 600W ATX12V v2.3 SLI CrossFire 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply

Optical Drive: ASUS 24X DVD Burner - Bulk 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM Black SATA Model DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS - OEM

[BrRsn]

^ I had the MSI z87-G45 with the same CPU and it was a beast -- running 4.6 ghz all day with cheap generic ram. All i had to do was bump the multiplier up to 46 and tweak the voltage. Just make sure whatever board you get is good for overclocking because you can push the 4670K pretty far

[3klipze]

^^I would stay away from your SSD choice. They're cheap but with your budget you can do better. Samsung Evo? M100?

[Razor Ramon HG]

Originally Posted by PeP

What do you guys think of this build; will everything be compatible? Any bottleneck issues? It's a little pricey, just over $1500 after taxes. Will the fan be enough for future overclocking? Any other suggestions/tips?

Mobo: MSI Z97-GD65 Gaming LGA 1150 Intel Z97 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K Haswell Quad-Core 3.4GHz LGA 1150 84W Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics BX80646I54670K

GPU: ASUS GeForce GTX 970 Strix OC 1253MHZ 4GB 7.0GHZ GDDR5 2xDVI HDMI DisplayPort PCI-E Video Card

SSD: Kingston SSDNow V300 Series SV300S37A/240G 2.5" 240GB SATA III Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

HDD: Seagate NAS HDD ST2000VN000 2TB 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s Internal Hard Drive

RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL

CPU Cooling: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - CPU Cooler with 120 mm PWM Fan

Case: Fractal Design Define R4 with Window Black Pearl Silent ATX Mid Tower Case

Power: CORSAIR CXM series CX600M 600W ATX12V v2.3 SLI CrossFire 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply

Optical Drive: ASUS 24X DVD Burner - Bulk 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM Black SATA Model DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS - OEM

Out:

• Intel i5-4670K
• ASUS GTX 970
• Kingston SSDNow V300
• Seagate ST2000VN000
• Cooler Master 212
• Corsair CX600M

In:

• Intel i5-4690K
• MSI GTX 970 Gaming G4 or Gigabyte GTX 970 G1
• Samsung 840 EVO
• Seagate Barracuda ST2000DM001
• be quiet! Dark Rock 3 or Corsair H100i
• Corsair RM650

Reasons:

• 4690K is a Haswell Refresh of the 4670K with higher base clocks and better TIM = better temperature and overclockability.
• Reported issues with ASUS GTX 970s.
• Kingston V300 is worse than dog shit, whereas Samsung 840 EVO reigns supreme in kitchen stadium.
• You don't need a NAS drive in a desktop, get the cheaper Barracuda.
• You're buying a nice case with a window. The 212 performs amazing for the price, but it looks like shit. The H100i would be best at showing off your motherboard.
• CX600M is entry level tier. You're going HAM with this build. The RM650 is 80+ Gold certified and the fan doesn't turn on unless the load is over 40% (so pretty much only when you're gaming).

[underscore]

In this setup, what's the weak point for running MMO's like GW2 (ie what should be overclocked first or upgraded)?

CPU: AMD Athlon II X4 640 Quad Core Processor - Quad Core, 2MB Cache, Socket AM3, 95W
Buy the AMD Athlon II X4 640 Quad Core Processor at TigerDirect.ca

Video: ASUS Radeon HD 7750 V2 820MHZ 1GB 4.6GHZ GDDR5

Memory: Corsair XMS3 4GB PC10666 DDR3 1333MHz (x2 for 8GB)
Buy the Corsair CMX4GX3M1A1333C9 XMS3 4GB DDR3 RAM at TigerDirect.ca

Mobo: Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 AM3+ AMD 760G + SB710
Buy the Gigabyte 78LMT-USB3 760G AM3+ mATX MOTHERBOARD at TigerDirect.ca

[Razor Ramon HG]

MMOs tend to be more CPU intensive. I'd go CPU and then GPU upgrade in that order. It's an older platform so I'd just get a FX-6300 and OC it, and then grab a cheap used 270X or GTX 660/660TI.

[asian_XL]

If u dont build, get a mac

Which 970 version should get?

[Razor Ramon HG]

MSI GTX 970 Gaming G4 or Gigabyte GTX 970 G1

[bobola]

^+1
I got a Asus 970, it had major coil whine..
It was louder than my 6 case fans and was audible even when speaker is on.

Switched to a MSI 970 for $10 more and it's much better.
There are still coil whine, but you need to put your ear next to the case to hear it.

[underscore]

Pushed the Athlon 640 from 3.0GHz to 3.6GHz without any problems so far but with minimal effect on MMO performance (load dropped from 80+% to 60-70% though). Turned to the GPU and it's running flat out so that seems to be the bottleneck. Bumped that from 820MHz to 950MHz but again no real improvement in MMO performance (~30 FPS normally but some dips to the teens) and it's still running flat out. Both had slight temperature increases but are still well within safe levels.

Now the part where I get confused is my girlfriends PC has a AMD Phenom II 965 (3.4GHz, 8MB cache) and a Radeon 7770 1020MHz and she gets stable ~70FPS with the GPU peaking at 83% load. As far as I can work out the only differences in our setup are that her CPU has an extra 6MB L3 cache and her GPU is running 70MHz faster than mine (we also have different mobos).

Am I missing a bottleneck/difference here or is that small difference really able to give her double my framerate? I don't mind putting more time into overclocking or money into upgrading parts if I really have to but I want to be sure that I'm focusing on the right thing here.

[Razor Ramon HG]

Generally, L3 cache doesn't matter much in terms of gaming, so I'd imagine the OC'd Athlon is on par with the Phenom..

It's probably the video card. The difference between the 7750 and the 7770 depending on the game can range from 15% to 30% according to benchmarks.

Why don't you confirm by swapping cards out? They're both Radeon cards, so you won't have to worry about any drivers.

[SkinnyPupp]

Cache matters a LOT in gaming. It's the easiest way to get more performance out of a CPU

[underscore]

I'm gonna swap the GPU's tonight, forgive the noobness but if the CPU was holding me back wouldn't it be above 80% load when gaming? Or am I just using the wrong tools to show the CPU load?

[SkinnyPupp]

CPU load % is not a useful indicator... only actual performance

Athlon isn't going to cut it in modern programs and/or games

[rubencruz]

Hey guys , need some help. My hybrid water cooler exploded and started leaking internally . it wasn't much but now my computer won't boot. Just wondering if you can recommend any computer repair places around Vancouver that can diagnose and repair it. Thanks !

[Razor Ramon HG]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

Cache matters a LOT in gaming. It's the easiest way to get more performance out of a CPU

The performance is negligible for most gaming situations.

Originally Posted by underscore

I'm gonna swap the GPU's tonight, forgive the noobness but if the CPU was holding me back wouldn't it be above 80% load when gaming? Or am I just using the wrong tools to show the CPU load?

Theoretically.. but your Athlon is five years old. It's going to have a hard time running modern games as Skinny said.

Originally Posted by rubencruz

Hey guys , need some help. My hybrid water cooler exploded and started leaking internally . it wasn't much but now my computer won't boot. Just wondering if you can recommend any computer repair places around Vancouver that can diagnose and repair it. Thanks !

Depends where your coolant leaked, but nothing can fix something that has short circuited. I'd start off with testing each component separately to see what can be salvaged. I'd imagine your motherboard is probably shot though.

[rubencruz]

I'm terrible with computers , can you recommend a shop I can bring it to?

[underscore]

Thus far I haven't had any problems with it in any of the games I play, aside from GW2 not being quite as smooth as I'd like. Obviously I'm not going to pull off anything crazy with it but at this point I'm more just confused as to why there's such a large performance gap considering the relatively small hardware gap.

[Razor Ramon HG]

Originally Posted by rubencruz

I'm terrible with computers , can you recommend a shop I can bring it to?

You could bring it to NCIX.

Originally Posted by underscore

Thus far I haven't had any problems with it in any of the games I play, aside from GW2 not being quite as smooth as I'd like. Obviously I'm not going to pull off anything crazy with it but at this point I'm more just confused as to why there's such a large performance gap considering the relatively small hardware gap.

It's probably a combination of both your CPU/GPU being weaker than the ones in your GF's build. Your CPU is already hitting loads of 70% so there's not much headroom left. The lack of L3 cache (which differentiates an Athlon II and a Phenom II) might also be making a bigger difference than I expected.

I also did a quick Google and it seems that GW2 is poorly coded.

Cheapest solution? See if you can find a used Phenom X4/X6 or buy a FX-6300.

Best solution? Buy a G3258 + cheaper motherboard, and upgrade to an i5 down the road.