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10-25-2012, 02:41 AM
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#1301 | | Revscene.net has a homepage?!
Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Richmond
Posts: 1,287
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VRM's only need to be strong and in this day and age, digital, and not abundant, a full dual digital VRM setup @ 12 Phases found on the Maximus/Extreme V's can easily beat out that stupid Gigabyte 32 Phase Power garbage, its like saying Megan Racing garbage coils are better because it has 96 clicks, as opposed to a 10 click KW V3 Coils.
MSI boards are one of the best bang for your buck, and are praised quite frequently, in fact, they offer a much more comprehensive set of features at an unbeatable price (Thunderbolt @ 229? holy shit son). A bad batch of boards few years ago can't be the breaking point for your new purchase, that's like saying Antec power supplies are garbage because they had a high failure rate on one model line up half a decade ago, when they are one of the very best delta OEM PSU's you can buy.
No motherboard manufacturer will outright lie about their spec's, but will stretch the truth on it, i.e Gigabyte offers a full USB 3.0 connection point on most of their Z77 boards, when in reality, there are only one or two hub point on the board, meaning the data rate is split if it is all utilized. A hub can only power two USB 3 ports to its full data limit.
Although I've never seen a single board from a reputable brand that will downright lie about such an important feature, maybe AsRock, or Biostar.
Just my 2 cents. Quote: |
lol some guy in a ml63 bought like half the store at the ncix warehouse sale
| I was there working, was the stupidest shit I've seen at a warehouse sale (like people camping at 4:30PM the day BEFORE).
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10-25-2012, 03:24 AM
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#1302 | | Hacked RS to become a mod
Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Sunny Hong Kong
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by belaud  a full dual digital VRM setup @ 12 Phases found on the Maximus/Extreme V's can easily beat out that stupid Gigabyte 32 Phase Power garbage | Not necessarily. With the Gigabyte, the load is spread across more power stages. The ripple should be much lower, and the heat should be lower as well, since they don't have to be in an ON state as much.
I agree that # of phases isn't as important as what is controlling them. But Gigabyte ALWAYS uses really good hardware on their boards, even the lower models. The power stages used on the 32 phase UP7 you are referring to are good for 60A each at room temperature. That is a fucking lot of power, way more than they will ever need. Divided across all these, they will not need to break a sweat to run.
Besides, the way it works, it can be used in various modes. All 32 phases are rarely ever used, it can also be used as a regular 8 phase board or even less, for better power efficiency. So at the very LEAST you have an 8 phase CPU VRM with 60A power stages. Better than just about every other board out there already.
Not sure what makes you say those Asus boards "can easily beat out" this design... beat it at what? Quote:
Originally Posted by belaud A bad batch of boards few years ago can't be the breaking point for your new purchase | Not saying it should be. Just pointing out that they had a bad batch a while ago, which is why it's important to know this stuff. Current models may or may not be garbage - it's up to the user to find out. Quote:
Originally Posted by belaud Gigabyte offers a full USB 3.0 connection point on most of their Z77 boards, when in reality, there are only one or two hub point on the board, meaning the data rate is split if it is all utilized. A hub can only power two USB 3 ports to its full data limit. | Wrong. Gigabyte boards use Via VL800 controllers for their USB 3.0. These are NOT hubs, they are full xHCI host controllers. Quote:
Originally Posted by belaud I've never seen a single board from a reputable brand that will downright lie about such an important feature, maybe AsRock, or Biostar | ASRock has lied outright about their VRMs being digital. Most will do things to cheap out, but not necessarily lie about it outright.
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10-25-2012, 10:48 AM
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#1303 | | Revscene.net has a homepage?!
Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Richmond
Posts: 1,287
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| Quote: |
I agree that # of phases isn't as important as what is controlling them. But Gigabyte ALWAYS uses really good hardware on their boards, even the lower models. The power stages used on the 32 phase UP7 you are referring to are good for 60A each at room temperature. That is a fucking lot of power, way more than they will ever need. Divided across all these, they will not need to break a sweat to run.
| Theres not much to the board except for its monstrosity of a phase power, nonetheless, it's still impressive having it rated at 60A's each. Quote: |
Not sure what makes you say those Asus boards "can easily beat out" this design... beat it at what?
| Referring to the quality > quantity argument, the RoG boards don't need 32 phase powers @ 60A's to have the exact same overclocking capabilities. Quote: |
Wrong. Gigabyte boards use Via VL800 controllers for their USB 3.0. These are NOT hubs, they are full xHCI host controllers.
| You're right, my bad. Quote: |
ASRock has lied outright about their VRMs being digital. Most will do things to cheap out, but not necessarily lie about it outright.
| Paint a board gold, must be good  . People have to realize, Asrock is Asus' garbage.
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10-25-2012, 11:09 AM
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#1304 | | My homepage has been set to RS
Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Vancouver
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^ yeah it was retarded
last time i got there at midnight and i was near the front
this time i got there at 11 and i was pretty far back and by like 5am it was around the building
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10-30-2012, 10:36 AM
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#1305 | | Hacked RS to become a mod
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10-31-2012, 12:58 AM
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#1306 | | Banned (ABWS)?
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Vancouver
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I'm thinking of getting a SSD.
Never owned one before, but it seems every article and forum I read,
they say it's the best upgrade possible in terms of giving your computer a speed boost.
The only thing I also read is, they are known to fail a lot.
I'm not sure whether that's a thing of the past, or is this still something I should be concerned about?
If it matters, I'm looking into 120gb ones.
Don't think I need one bigger than that, as it will break my budget and I only plan to install Windows on it.
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10-31-2012, 01:58 AM
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#1307 | | Hacked RS to become a mod
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Early SandForce drives were prone to failure. If you're worried about that, get a non Sandforce, such as a Samsung 830, Crucial m4, or Vertex 4
Vertex 4 is my favourite of the bunch, but then there may be concerns of OCZ even existing for the duration of its 5 year warranty, so...
Samsung SSDs are the ones Apple uses in their systems and tablets.
Also keep in mind that smaller drives are slower as well
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10-31-2012, 12:12 PM
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#1308 | | Banned (ABWS)?
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Vancouver
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp Early SandForce drives were prone to failure. If you're worried about that, get a non Sandforce, such as a Samsung 830, Crucial m4, or Vertex 4
Vertex 4 is my favourite of the bunch, but then there may be concerns of OCZ even existing for the duration of its 5 year warranty, so...
Samsung SSDs are the ones Apple uses in their systems and tablets.
Also keep in mind that smaller drives are slower as well | What about the Intel or Kingston ones?
And why are smaller drives slower? Are they built differently?
Will the difference be a lot or very minor?
The price diff between 120 to 240gb is about $50-$80 more.
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10-31-2012, 04:28 PM
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#1309 | | I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Vancouver BC
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the speed difference between 120 vs 240 won't be that big
but if you compare 32gb to 240 then yes it can be noticable
even if you get a big drive and fill 200/220gb it will slow down as well
intel is considered the best brand for reliability because it gets cherrypicked and uses its own firmware. Kingston hyperX is also great but it's not tier 1 like the corsair PP, plextor m5 pro..sandisk extreme...intel 520
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10-31-2012, 10:03 PM
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#1310 | | Hacked RS to become a mod
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The difference is because 120 GB drives use flash with fewer die per part. In other words, a 240 GB has 32 8GB dies going to it, which saturates the SandForce's 8 channels. A 120 GB version would have 16 8GB going to it - SSD is highly parallel, so this really affects performance.
That's how products like the Max IOPS can improve performance.. they are using 32nm toggle flash, which has even more dies going to the controller. So a 120 GB Max IOPS has a full 32 dies and performs like a 240.
The speed difference isn't insignificant, (at full load a 120 GB will have about 70-80% of the performance of a 240 on Sandforce drives) but you're right that it isn't as big as going from 32 to 240.
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10-31-2012, 10:10 PM
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#1311 | | I *heart* Revscene.net very Muchie
Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Rich City / Van
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hmm belaud, when is the next warehouse sale? early spring or summer? And are those parts reliable? was there for the last one (went around 12pm and all the shit was gone)
are the mobos still good if open boxed or should i just buy brand new?
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11-01-2012, 07:58 PM
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#1312 | | Banned (ABWS)?
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Vancouver
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So I'm thinking of getting the i5 3570k. Seems pretty solid.
But I'm not all that serious about overclocking. And I've read a z77 board is required to OC?(Not even sure what z77 is).
I wondering is it better if I just get the 3570 without the "k" ?
The most OC-ing I would do is adjust the FSB in the BIOS, but nothing hardcore.
My OC-ing knowledge is pretty limited.
On that note, I'm slowly piecing my upgrade together.
$100~ SSD (128gb Crucial M4 maybe?)
GTX 660 Ti
i5 3760(k)
2x 4GB RAM
MoBo...
I'm not sure about the significance of the numbers in the RAM specs.
I just know I need 2 sticks of 4GB, and no need to overkill with 16gb of RAM.
I'm still not sure what Motherboard to get, cause my budget is getting tight.
I'm hoping to spend $800 max AFTER TAX. But doesn't look like it's possible unless I find a super deal on one of thsoe.
Those 5 components are the only things I need.
Last edited by AzNightmare; 11-01-2012 at 08:06 PM.
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11-01-2012, 08:17 PM
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#1313 | | Hacked RS to become a mod
Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Sunny Hong Kong
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by AzNightmare The most OC-ing I would do is adjust the FSB in the BIOS, but nothing hardcore.
My OC-ing knowledge is pretty limited. | Clearly - there is no more FSB 
If you don't plan on overclocking, you don't need to get a K series. But you might as well since it's not THAT much more, and down the road if you ever want to do it, you will be able to. If you don't get a K, they are absolutely locked down. The most you can do is OC the BLCK a little bit - 5 MHz at most usually. This overclocks EVERYTHING on the CPU and everything that connects to it - memory, pci-e devices, etc. Not the best way to OC, it's more for fine tuning.
My idea for a good Intel ~$800 build:
Core i5 3470 (no OC) - $200
GeForce 660 - $240
Samsung 830 128GB - $90
Gigabyte Z77X-UD3H - $140
8GB RAM - $30
Case - Antec 300 - $55
PSU - Antec Green 380W - $45
Alternatively you could go with AMD:
FX 8350 - $180
Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 - $130
This will be faster overall, cheaper, and you don't have to give up overclocking
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11-01-2012, 11:47 PM
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#1314 | | Banned (ABWS)?
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Vancouver
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I don't need a case or PSU. I'm upgrading, not rebuilding a full system.
I probably should have said what I want to do with my PC earlier.
My intention is to use it for gaming, like the current or upcoming mainstream games
Skyrim, Arkham City, BF3, CoD, AC3, etc.
I'm keeping my 1680x1050 monitors though, so I think that should help,
as I don't need anything over the top with maxed out gaming settings.
And smooth gaming shouldd be easier to achieve on smaller resolutions.
Just fairly good settings with good fps is all I expect. I also expect my PC to last at least 4~ years.
(I'm using a 8800 GT right now, and that's pretty much how long it lasted too)
I don't really mind ATI vs Nvidia, or AMD vs Intel.
Although most reviews have said Intel > AMD and Nvidia > ATI.
BTW, where are you getting your prices? I can't seem to find a Samsung 830 for $90.
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11-04-2012, 08:01 PM
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#1315 | | My homepage has been set to RS
Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Vancouver
Posts: 2,122
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Originally Posted by Verdasco hmm belaud, when is the next warehouse sale? early spring or summer? And are those parts reliable? was there for the last one (went around 12pm and all the shit was gone)
are the mobos still good if open boxed or should i just buy brand new? | everything i bought from the sales (which was like 90% of my comp lol) were good except for a gtx 570
got a full refund on it though
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11-04-2012, 09:52 PM
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#1316 | | I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 22,107
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Originally Posted by AzNightmare Skyrim, Arkham City, BF3, CoD, AC3, etc.
I'm keeping my 1680x1050 monitors though, so I think that should help,
as I don't need anything over the top with maxed out gaming settings. | 60 fps...medium to high @1050
a R7850 or gtx660 in the $150-200 range is probably good to last you a few years
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11-05-2012, 12:54 AM
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#1317 | | Banned (ABWS)?
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Vancouver
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I'm shopping for 2x 4GB of RAM now.
I'm not too picky about brand, but I do have to wonder... what's the difference between them all??
They're all DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24
Should I just pick up the cheapest one??
Hard to do research since there's just way too many models, all give or take $5.
I could easily go for any one if there's a reason to go for "that" particular one over the other one.
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11-05-2012, 01:49 AM
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#1318 | | Hacked RS to become a mod
Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Sunny Hong Kong
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Get the cheapest one with a lifetime warranty and a small heatsink. Kingston HyperX are good
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11-06-2012, 12:57 PM
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#1319 | | Banned (ABWS)?
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Vancouver
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Researching for a MoBo now.
But not sure what all these PCI specs mean.
PCI-Ex16
PCI-E: GenGen3 (16, 16) Gen2(4)
PCI-Ex4
PCI-Ex1
PCI
at NCIX, the MoBo titles usually say "3PCI-E16 2PCI-E1 3PCI" (for example).
I assume that's 3x PCI-E16 slots, 2x PCI-E1 slots, and 3x PCI slots...
only problem is... I don't know what slots are for what anymore, since the last time I built a PC was 5 years ago. What's PCI x4? PCI Gen??
In my current PC, I have my 8800gt in my PCI-E (is that 16??)
and my soundcard in a PCI slot.
Seems like the normal PCI slot is gone now in most modern boards, so I'll have to rely on onboard sound now.
btw, I think I'll only need one slot for a video card (no intention of SLI). So would it be recommended for me to find a board with the least amount of slots to help cut costs? I really don't think I'll need ANY slots, except just one for a video card...
I also don't want to make the mistake of leaving too much headroom, cause I'm 99% sure the next time I "upgrade" will be in 5 years, where everything in my system won't be compatible anymore.
I'm being really cautious of choosing the right mobo, cause I already made that mistake in my current PC. Convinced myself I needed a $250 MoBo, got a bunch of "bells and whistles" that I never used. Like the stupid remote controller to control my music... 
I had the theory that if I paid more for a better MoBo, it would be more compatible to parts in the future for upgrading... 
Last edited by AzNightmare; 11-06-2012 at 01:05 PM.
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11-06-2012, 01:27 PM
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#1320 | | I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 22,107
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pci is a legacy standard now and is being phased out by most mfg
pci-e gen 3 is the latest although you won't see any difference between that and pci-ie 2.0/2.1
pci-e 3.0 x8 has the same speed as pci-e 2.1 x16
if you aren't going sli/cfx or overclocking then even a sub $100 mobo is fine.
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11-06-2012, 04:01 PM
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#1321 | | RS controls my life!
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Burnaby
Posts: 734
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Anyone know what the demand's like for older Lian Li cases? I've got a V1000 Plus I'm wondering if I should sell or just keep it. I don't see any on ebay or CL
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11-06-2012, 04:44 PM
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#1322 | | Got MOD?
Join Date: May 2001 Location: Vancouver, BC
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I don't think there's generally a demand for comptuer cases...
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11-06-2012, 06:58 PM
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#1323 | | Hacked RS to become a mod
Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Sunny Hong Kong
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You can get a really good case for $100 or even $50 now.
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11-06-2012, 08:40 PM
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#1324 | | RS controls my life!
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Burnaby
Posts: 734
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Alright, I guess I'm keeping it for the next few generations of my builds.
Lol thanks guys
Posted via RS Mobile | |
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11-10-2012, 02:41 AM
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#1325 | | Banned (ABWS)?
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Vancouver
Posts: 19,290
Thanked 4,050 Times in 1,728 Posts
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Does the GeForce 8800gt use the same PCI-E slot (on the mobo) as the GTX 660 Ti ?
Reason I ask is because I'm wondering if I can stick my new card in my current PC...
And about Mail-in-rebates.
Does the post office automatically "postmark" all mail?
Or is there something I have to do?
Last edited by AzNightmare; 11-10-2012 at 05:53 AM.
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