REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

Death2Theft · 10-04-2011, 10:28 PM

Serious to god I dont know why people ever waste time putting deposit down on cookie cutter cars. I mean for an exotic i'd understand.

legalaction · 10-04-2011, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Death2Theft

Serious to god I dont know why people ever waste time putting deposit down on cookie cutter cars. I mean for an exotic i'd understand.

So u r never asked by the salesman to put down a deposit? As some people had pointed out, some dealers even request a deposit for negotiating the price. I also think it is a stupid convention but it seems that most dealers do this for all kinds of reasons.

!SG · 10-05-2011, 06:06 AM

so then, has this problem been resolved as of yet?

legalaction · 10-05-2011, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !SG

so then, has this problem been resolved as of yet?

I have not got the refund yet though they claimed they would do it. Also, VSA said they would investigate whether the dealership has compliance problem after they receive the dealer's response. People here mostly believe VSA will not give them further punishment. So in an industry like this, we have to be careful if they will not be punished for even forging the document and threatening the consumers. Most likely, they will continue doing this and more victims will be produced.

GLOW · 10-05-2011, 08:39 AM

i wonder if there should be an official RS "shitlist" thread for salesmen for ppl to share their experiences with. of a certain person has multiple reports from RS members it would be a good indicator of whom to stay away from, since i think it's usually the individual and not the dealership that gives people trouble no?

just a thought.

spoon.ek9 · 10-05-2011, 10:58 AM

^ personally, i'd say that's not a bad idea but it will definitely bring a huge shit storm towards RS management. so.... yeah, no

tiger_handheld · 10-05-2011, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoon.ek9

^ personally, i'd say that's not a bad idea but it will definitely bring a huge shit storm towards RS management. so.... yeah, no

Last time I read the disclaimer, RS nor its management was responsible for the opinions and content submitted by it's members. It might hurt sponsorship sales from that particular company - but does RS really want to be associated with that type of business? I think not.

BlackZRoadster · 10-05-2011, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiger_handheld

Last time I read the disclaimer, RS nor its management was responsible for the opinions and content submitted by it's members. It might hurt sponsorship sales from that particular company - but does RS really want to be associated with that type of business? I think not.

Guess what, openroad sponsors too, and someone earlier had a beef with openroad toyota.

So are you saying RS is bad by associating with openroad group?

Openroad is one of the best companies in the auto industry FYI

GLOW · 10-05-2011, 12:11 PM

well that's why i said the list would be for individual salesmen that have given poor experiences to customers, and not dealerships themselves.

i was just typing out loud anyways and threw the idea out there. carry on.

legalaction · 10-05-2011, 08:17 PM

I thank RS for giving me the opportunity to discuss this issue. I can totally understand the dilemma that the management may face if they get pressure from the sponsors. For this post only, I will take away my case for a moment, try to objective and just talk about business:

In fact it all comes down to what type of business you want to do. Some people make money by threatening others, some make money by helping others prevented from being threatened. If we have a "hall of shame" of shady dealers, be it individuals or companies, it will certainly promote RS's publicity and influence. Then, some dealerships can reply by saying "we do clean business", or promote "no deposit", "no hidden terms" or "our deposit is 100% refundable". In this industry, the products are so homogeneous and it is hard to differentiate yourself from others. Now, this could be one of the things that you can easily do to set you apart. A previous post from someone working at Openroad said "FYI, David is not with us anymore." Compared to Regency's arrogance, that simple "I care" kind of response had earned a little bit of my respect. If a salesman fails to comply to the professional ethics, the dealership can also punish him to earn customers' trust.

By providing a platform like this, RS can earn the trust from the consumers, gain publicity and attract more sponsorship. It is a "win-win-win" situation for the consumers, RS, and the good dealerships. RS may become a game changer, who knows? From some mods' response, I think we share the same value. Business grows by people cooperating and helping each other, not by ripping each other off.

I would also be happy to see that Regency pays the management some money to delete this thread altogether. For the management, that might be a good "bird-in-hand" although I think it will hurt the long-term interest of RS. However, judging from the arrogance that they have expressed, I highly doubt that could happen. They just don't give a sh*t, not even to VSA, let alone RS.

Death2Theft · 10-05-2011, 10:58 PM

I dont deal with the salesman as every niggle and jiggle on price would have to go thru their "manager" anyways. Unless it's an exotic I'm not really the kinda guy that goes ooooh I better get this new suv before the jones do!
Having multiple cars too helps. If one dealership wont sell me what i want without a deposit, I dont mind waiting or going to the next one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by legalaction

So u r never asked by the salesman to put down a deposit? As some people had pointed out, some dealers even request a deposit for negotiating the price. I also think it is a stupid convention but it seems that most dealers do this for all kinds of reasons.

tiger_handheld · 10-05-2011, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackZRoadster

Guess what, openroad sponsors too, and someone earlier had a beef with openroad toyota.

So are you saying RS is bad by associating with openroad group?

Openroad is one of the best companies in the auto industry FYI

If there were multiple users complaining about piss poor services from openroad - i would consider them bad. But they are one of the best in the industry because they are quick to resolve customer issues and learn from them. In the 8-9 pages of this thread, there are atleast 2-3 complains in addition to the OP's issue.

!SG · 10-06-2011, 03:31 AM

let me play devils advocate here a bit.

OP has situation at dealership that does not go his way.
OP creates new account to rant about a situation that happened to him/her at a dealership.
OP's choice in username doesnt actually really help in situation.
If situation didnt happen, would OP be on RS in the first place?
Is OP using this action because he is expressing his distaste, or as him trump card to get things his/her way? (i hope this isnt the case, then you are no different than the load mainlander at futureshop creating scene, and staff there are quick to jump in to solve the situation just to keep from having a scene happen)

Right now, as it stands, its OP's word that all of this can be based on. I would take a picture/scan the original signed deposit contract, but block out info like the customers name, address, contact number, to justify his argument.

everyone was quick to jump in the conversation to support the OP, in most cases, i would as well, however, without supporting facts and documents, the fact that a NEW USER ACCOUNT was created SOLEY to rant, its all one sided hearsay at the moment.

with that being said, deposit should be returned unless the deposit was for a special ordered vehicle, in that case, customer should not be able to back out.

legalaction · 10-06-2011, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Death2Theft

I dont deal with the salesman as every niggle and jiggle on price would have to go thru their "manager" anyways. Unless it's an exotic I'm not really the kinda guy that goes ooooh I better get this new suv before the jones do!
Having multiple cars too helps. If one dealership wont sell me what i want without a deposit, I dont mind waiting or going to the next one.

Very helpful. So now I know it is not really a convention. I thought it was a convention here to take deposit and I was just trying to fit into this Canadian culture.

legalaction · 10-06-2011, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !SG

let me play devils advocate here a bit.

OP has situation at dealership that does not go his way.
OP creates new account to rant about a situation that happened to him/her at a dealership.
OP's choice in username doesnt actually really help in situation.
If situation didnt happen, would OP be on RS in the first place?
Is OP using this action because he is expressing his distaste, or as him trump card to get things his/her way? (i hope this isnt the case, then you are no different than the load mainlander at futureshop creating scene, and staff there are quick to jump in to solve the situation just to keep from having a scene happen)

Right now, as it stands, its OP's word that all of this can be based on. I would take a picture/scan the original signed deposit contract, but block out info like the customers name, address, contact number, to justify his argument.

everyone was quick to jump in the conversation to support the OP, in most cases, i would as well, however, without supporting facts and documents, the fact that a NEW USER ACCOUNT was created SOLEY to rant, its all one sided hearsay at the moment.

with that being said, deposit should be returned unless the deposit was for a special ordered vehicle, in that case, customer should not be able to back out.

1. I guess what you are trying to say is that my credibility is lowered by the fact that my user account is new. I can understand your concern, and as I said, once VSA's investigation result is out, I will probably post the purchase agreement and recorded conversation. But I guess I can do the purchase agreement before that, stay tuned.

2. I did not sign a deposit contract. And as I have said, deposit can be returned even when it is a special order, in the case when no terms and conditions in the deposit contract are stated and agreed upon in written. For the details, please refer to the VSA's explanation in the first post.

3. Just as a kindly reminder, I know this is a sensitive matter so I do not want to be offensive: Using words like "mainlander" just reflects that you or your parents immigrated from Hongkong/Taiwan, probably Hongkong because some Taiwanese people often do not consider themselves Chinese. I can understand your bias considering the snobbish side of Canadian immigration policy: they select some immigrants solely based on their wealth, and all your judgment is possibly based on that kind of selection bias. But anyone might"create a scene" at Futureshop, not only mainlander. Maybe you saw it once or twice. But from my personal experience, you do not have to create a scene to get good service at futureshop. I guess you just use the "mainlander" unintentionally.

I am used to this kind of stuff since I am from China. For the same kind of annoying uncivilized behavior, if you are from Guangzhou, you probably use "northerners"; If you are from Shanghai, you probably use "peasants"; if you are from Beijing, you probably use "those immigrants(people who moved to Beijing for a better job)". This regional discrimination is very special in the world. You see it happen in other countries but not quite as severe. It is very interesting. As an American-born Hongkong actor pointed out, "Chinese is an interesting nation, they discriminate themselves." And also, even when they are in another country.

legalaction · 10-06-2011, 10:01 AM

The Purchase Agreement that I signed and then Rick Kingdon singed and altered. They only gave me this photocopy when I requested several days later.

Jgresch · 10-06-2011, 10:19 AM

The salesman filled that out with you? How come
it doesn't even list the desposit/down payment amount lol...
Posted via RS Mobile

legalaction · 10-06-2011, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jgresch

The salesman filled that out with you? How come
it doesn't even list the desposit/down payment amount lol...
Posted via RS Mobile

In the recorded conversation, the salesman said "I wrote down the numbers, you signed it, then my manager signed it". I asked " then who wrote 'DEPOST NONREFUNDABLE' down?". He said " I seriously have no idea".

I also thought it was stupid. But I think they have the guts to threaten me with this because they believe that the worst case scenario is just giving me the refund. VSA said the file had been forwarded to a compliance officer, and he will contact me once he has reviewed the file.

Jgresch · 10-06-2011, 12:15 PM

Was this a factory order? Or was it on their lot?

Was there another worksheet that he filled out for you before this? I find it weird that the sales person fills out a bill of sale. I'm pretty sure that they do it this way to make people feel like they've already signed the contract and are committed. Hell there isn't even a VIN on it lol

This stuff isn't really relevant to your case, I'm just curious.

quasi · 10-06-2011, 12:18 PM

I'm no handwritting expert but that non refundable def looks like it was written by someone else other then the person who filled out the original document.

legalaction · 10-06-2011, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jgresch

Was this a factory order? Or was it on their lot?

Was there another worksheet that he filled out for you before this? I find it weird that the sales person fills out a bill of sale. I'm pretty sure that they do it this way to make people feel like they've already signed the contract and are committed. Hell there isn't even a VIN on it lol

This stuff isn't really relevant to your case, I'm just curious.

It was on their lot. I thought there used to a work sheet but they did not show me afterwards. Yes, I also thought there wasn't even a VIN so which vehicle were you talking about? It only has Rick Kingdon's initials instead of mine, how can you say you have told me? But Rick Kingdon still refused giving me my money back. Very brave.

legalaction · 10-06-2011, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quasi

I'm no handwritting expert but that non refundable def looks like it was written by someone else other then the person who filled out the original document.

The number was written by the salesman but the "DEPOSIT NONREFUNDABLE" was written by Rick Kingdon.

spoon.ek9 · 10-06-2011, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quasi

I'm no handwritting expert but that non refundable def looks like it was written by someone else other then the person who filled out the original document.

it's most definitely different writing. no doubt about it.

GLOW · 10-06-2011, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quasi

I'm no handwritting expert but that non refundable def looks like it was written by someone else other then the person who filled out the original document.

didn't even bother to try to make it look similar

lol

!SG · 10-06-2011, 12:34 PM

mainlander is name used to describe anyone from the mainland of china. usually can tell via accent. but if it take offense to it, then i appologize.

of course i question your motives. no one goes and creates a new username. either youve never been here before, or you have, but dont want to be linked to any post that is searchable. everyone knows its always about face, and im sure if the news cared, you'd be on tv ranting about it, thus the next easy step is to go onto an online car community, where opinions can easily be swayed with selective facts given.

What i asked for, which helps you in your case, was a simple picture of the deposit documents. this will aid you in your case.

and as for seeing it once or twice, more like a couple dozen. actually its fairly entertaining to watch, just gotta remember to whip out the phone to record the video.

you never got a copy of the original purchase agreement????

well good thing you posted, and good thing you blocked out ur personal info! good work! more evidence to get the deposit back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by legalaction

3. Just as a kindly reminder, I know this is a sensitive matter so I do not want to be offensive: Using words like "mainlander" just reflects that you or your parents immigrated from Hongkong/Taiwan, probably Hongkong because some Taiwanese people often do not consider themselves Chinese. I can understand your bias considering the snobbish side of Canadian immigration policy: they select some immigrants solely based on their wealth, and all your judgment is possibly based on that kind of selection bias. But anyone might"create a scene" at Futureshop, not only mainlander. Maybe you saw it once or twice. But from my personal experience, you do not have to create a scene to get good service at futureshop. I guess you just use the "mainlander" unintentionally.