BEWARE: Regency Infiniti Set me Up by Forging Document

[legalaction]

I signed a purchase agreement with Regency Infiniti and put 1000 dollar deposit. By the time I signed it, I was not acknowledged that the deposit was nonrefundable, nor was it written on the agreement. They did not give me the copy of the agreement either. Several days later, I changed my mind and decide not buying the vehicle. Their manager told me that the deposit was not refundable.

When I requested the proof, I was presented with a purchase agreement with a hand-written "DEPOSIT NONREFUNDABLE" on the right bottom corner of the agreement. I was told by the manager that I had to either purchase the vehicle or another vehicle, or give up the deposit. Later on, I called the salesman who was helping me, and he said that he did not know the term exist. Also, he said his manager signed and wrote everything after I signed. Both the conversation with the salesman and the manager was recorded by me. Below is a picture of the altered contract. I blocked my personal information and price.


I have filed my complaint on VSA and BBB. Now I am going to take this to court. I can not believe that they risk the crime of forging documents just to get this deal done. What would they not do then? Please beware of their scams. 　

A bulletin by VSA regarding the deposits can be found here:

http://www.mvsabc.com/documents/blt-...ssue14_000.pdf

Originally Posted by racerman88

I would have asked for a copy of the agreement before I left that same day.
If it was me, I would point out the fact that I did not sign or initial to acknowledge the non-refundable deposit.

Next time maybe I would.

I said the exactly the same thing. But Rick Kingdon still refused to give me my money back. He said " it was a legally binding contract, VSA will acknowledge it. You can go anywhere you like. VSA or go to court, I am not giving you the deposit back." Can you believe it?

If you go to Regency Infiniti and put down a deposit, chances are that no matter what kind of agreement you sign and no matter you get your copy or not, they will make you have a hard time getting it back. Because even if VSA notifies them about your complaint, they can just give you back you money and there is no more punishment for them. When punishment is small and profit is high, people can risk committing crimes.

Do not even give your credit card number to them. They can charge you money and say you agreed on it verbally and refuse giving the money back to you. Then you have to go through the same process as I have done. Just be careful. Here is a story posted in #171, and it confirms my conjecture on these individuals. They do have the gut to do this even if the evidence is against them:

Originally Posted by spoon.ek9

We go back and find David once more and ask him to show us the paper Tim signed. David gets his fat ass up from his desk with a smug look on his face like this is a waste of everyone's time. To our amazement, it takes David about 10-15 minutes to get back to us. We can see he found the paper, he's holding it in his hand. So wtf? Finally, he mopes back to his desk and shows us the paper. On the very bottom of the form, the salesman has circled and highlighted a hand written message that says:
"NOTHING PROMISED"
So at this point, I'm thinking in my head "Fuck you asshole, I just fucking caught you". I ask him point blank "Are you going to give us back the deposit or not?". Get this, he says "No."

In the recorded conversation with the salesman, when I asked that salesperson "when did you write down 'DEPOSIT NONREFUNDABLE?'", he first said "It is not written, it's been verbally told you" while in fact he did not. Then I said "you never told me the deposit was nonrefundable, right?", he refrained and said "no, I did not". I then asked, "then who wrote the "DEPOSIT NONREFUNDABLE " on the agreement?" He said " I...seriously have no idea".

Rick Kingdon explained this by saying that the salesman tends to forget, as they have too many customers and too many deals to keep track of. I guess Rick Kingdon is also good at forgetting what is legal and what is not. I will wait for VSA's investigation on these people who have amnesia. It is very contagious in Regency Infiniti. Maybe they need a doctor instead of a lawyer.

Rick Kingdon's public webpage on LinkedIn:
Rick Kingdon | LinkedIn

Notice how he claimed himself as "Reputation for integrity, teamwork, results achievement and exceptional people skills." And his specialty includes " marketing strategy development". Probably he has developed this forging-threatening strategy, he should get a patent for that. But let me ask you Mr. Kingdon, do you expect to win money by bluffing all the way on a poker table? Man, you should "Know your limit, play safe".

Originally Posted by Jgresch

There is no such thing as a non-refundable deposit in BC in auto sales. The only thing that exists along those lines would be known as a partial payment. You will have no problem getting VSA to deal with this.

Not sure why a big company like regency wouldn't be aware of this....

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

3 personal friends of mine (different age, demographic etc.) each went to Regency Toyota, Lexus and Nissan.

All 3 had a very bad experience. Regency isn't what they used to be.

Originally Posted by bonestock

i had some family members look into regency nissan / toyota.
thanks for the heads up, they just lost a couple of customers.
good luck with the case !

Originally Posted by FI-SP23

bf took his car to regency infiniti for service and he told them specifically not to wash his car...

we came back the next day to see that the car is all washed and we found that the mufflers were off (one was lower than the other) and the front bumper on the left has been hit and they tried to fix and realign it without telling us and trying to hide it from us.

never great encounters with regency infinity

I am glad that I did not buy the car from them now. Who knows what they had done to it.

Originally Posted by Quacks

Just found this: http://www.mvsabc.com/documents/blt-...ssue14_000.pdf

Lol all that work for nothing, it's already been summarized by VSA -_-;

Search "Understanding deposits" and "the sales transaction" from this page on VSA's website: Vehicle Buying Tips from The Motor Vehicle Sales Authority of British Columbia

Originally Posted by parm104

I cannot believe that this is still going on...At first I thought, oh well, this guy will make a little noise and get back what's rightfully his. Now that I'm reading more and more, I am nothing but frustrated with these [SLEAZY business tactics. As someone mentioned before, dealerships don't make a living off withholding deposits...No, they certainly don't, but holding a deposit certainly helps pay the bills.

These guys not only have horrible business ethics, but clearly their customer service is abysmal. I wish they could foresee the consequences of their actions because I truly hope that their business becomes negatively affected by this situation.

As some of you know, I've been recently searching for an Infiniti vehicle myself and have been dealing with a particular salesman over the phone. He's been keeping me up to date by telling me which cars are in stock. The next time I hear from him, I will ensure that I tell him that my business will not be conducted with their dealership.

From VSA Buying Tips: Understanding deposits


Be sure you understand the deposit, return and exchange policies of the dealership before you sign any documents. Remember, the term deposit can be used to describe quite different things. It is an industry best practice to be sure that the terms of any deposit are clear and in writing.

Depending on when it is taken in a transaction, a deposit may be a separate agreement for a variety of services. It could be an agreement for services to:

Hold a vehicle for a period of time
Locate a vehicle from another dealer
Bring in a vehicle from the manufacturer, and/or
Arrange financing for a vehicle
Be sure you know what your deposit is for.

If the deposit is part of an agreement to purchase a specific vehicle and all the terms and conditions are known, it may actually be a partial payment or down payment.

The terms and conditions of giving a deposit or partial payment must be clear and unambiguous. The terms and conditions must be provided to you. At a minimum, if a deposit is taken a motor dealer must:

Clearly distinguish in writing a deposit from a partial payment or down payment. They are not the same.
Clearly state in writing the purpose for which the deposit is taken
Clearly state the amount of the deposit in writing
Clearly state in writing when the deposit will or will not be refundable
Clearly state in writing any other terms and conditions, such as whether a deposit will be apply towards the purchase price of a vehicle
Provide you with a copy of the deposit agreement
If there is a written purchase agreement, the law requires motor dealers to detail the terms and conditions under which a deposit may and may not be refundable. Even when a deposit is stated to be non-refundable, there may be situations when a deposit will be refundable; such as when a dealership cannot deliver on its promise.

If you follow these rules, I think both the buyers and sellers' rights are protected by VSA. However, I still do not understand why they are not punished enough when they fail to comply. Especially in the case when all evidence is against them.

VSA comliance officer has made her decision. She said it was not recommended to use this kind of purchase agreement. All they can do is to issue a warning to the dealership, try to educate them and give them a copy of the recommended deposit contract. She refused to answer my question on whether this is a legal contract. She said it was "not recommended". There is nothing more they can do.

So beware, they can easily get away with this type of behavior. They will keep using this as a tactic to trap the customers. And for those who keep on using these tactics, you win. Now I know why this happens a lot. A good lesson to learn.



If you want to help others understand deposits, help others understand the rights and obligations in auto sales, or prevent others from being victims of dealerships like Regency Infiniti, please use your google account and press "+1", or use your FACEBOOK account and press "like".

UPDTAE:

1. I got an official letter from VSA yesterday which says they have resolved the issue. The dealership has refunded me the money.

2. I bought the same vehicle from another Infiniti dealership 3 weeks ago. There are two things I like about them more than Regency: first, they made it very clear that the deposit is refundable; second, for similar price as I got from Regency, I got the technology package. The price difference is about $3000. So Regency sucks in both customer service and price.

3. Any dealership/individual could do this to their customers. They just want to screw you although they know they will give you the refund. They can do this because the punishment from VSA is too small. So do not put down any deposit even when they say it is refundable.

I want to thank people here on RS. You guys make this process not a hard time but rather entertaining. Both those who supported/helped me and who tried to argue with me. I hope this thread can give local consumers more information. Especially for new immigrants and international students. I might do a Chinese version of this on Vansky.

[haulin oats]

technically, if you signed an agreement to purchase a vehicle, you are legally obligated to purchase said vehicle. Best case scenario, you lose the $1000. Worst case scenario, you are forced to purchase the vehicle for the agreed upon amount.

[fliptuner]

http://www.revscene.net/forums/63464...-contract.html

[CP.AR]

When I bought my car from BJ BMW, they made it very clear to me that my $1000 deposit was refundable in the event that I want to back out within the next week or so.

if it was hand written in, and it dosen't have your initials on it, I'd say that term that it's non-refundable can be ignored

[legalaction]

Originally Posted by haulin oats

technically, if you signed an agreement to purchase a vehicle, you are legally obligated to purchase said vehicle. Best case scenario, you lose the $1000. Worst case scenario, you are forced to purchase the vehicle for the agreed upon amount.

Thanks, but that is only true when the nonrefundable terms are presented to me and are agreed on. Even when it is agreed on, they have to prove that they did incur the monetary cost by holding the vehicle for several days. Also, there is not even a VIN number on the agreement, only a stock number. How can this determine which vehicle we agreed on?

Now it is a forged document. It is not about the economic consequence now, it is a CRIME to forge documents.

[legalaction]

Originally Posted by Amuro Ray

When I bought my car from BJ BMW, they made it very clear to me that my $1000 deposit was refundable in the event that I want to back out within the next week or so.

if it was hand written in, and it dosen't have your initials on it, I'd say that term that it's non-refundable can be ignored

Thanks. That is also what I thought before I went there. But now it is very clear that they do not want to ignore it, nor can I. I have to sue them under criminal act because I can prove that it was forged.

[Redlines_Daily]

Good luck, sounds like you will win if info is hand written and you recorded the conversations like you said.

[legalaction]

Originally Posted by Redlines_Daily

Good luck, sounds like you will win if info is hand written and you recorded the conversations like you said.

Thank you and I hope the consumers who had experienced this should unite here. Originally I just wanted my money back, now I would rather spend some money to put this criminal in jail. If any lawyer is interested in this case please contact me. Reporters from any media are also welcomed.

If we do not do this, these guys will continue doing this to their customers. First they rip us off by higher prices than our neighbor, then they lobbied a higher HST for used cars to gain some advantage, now they even dare to forge documents and threaten us to buy their products. Just because they believe that we are weak and stupid.

[Jgresch]

There is no such thing as a non-refundable deposit in BC in auto sales. The only thing that exists along those lines would be known as a partial payment. You will have no problem getting VSA to deal with this.

Not sure why a big company like regency wouldn't be aware of this....

[Redlines_Daily]

^ they are aware, they just want to keep the $1000!

[tiger_handheld]

+1 for the little guy -- keep us posted.

[PJ]

Keep us posted.. will subscribe to this thread

[legalaction]

Originally Posted by Jgresch

There is no such thing as a non-refundable deposit in BC in auto sales. The only thing that exists along those lines would be known as a partial payment. You will have no problem getting VSA to deal with this.

Not sure why a big company like regency wouldn't be aware of this....

VSA will only give them a warning and they will probably just give the deposit back to me after a long time. I am not concerned with getting my money back now. Forging document is a crime. Presenting and Pretending an illegal document as legal is also considered as forging document in court. Just consider this: what happens if you forged 50 pieces of $20 bill?

[fliptuner]

So it's the principle and not the money for you?

[legalaction]

Originally Posted by Redlines_Daily

^ they are aware, they just want to keep the $1000!

Or, they want to sell me the vehicle by intimidating me and make more profit than $1000 from it.

[legalaction]

Originally Posted by tiger_handheld

+1 for the little guy -- keep us posted.

Yes I definitely will. Glad to see so many supporters. Then I know I am not alone.

[WHEYsted]

strong username to post content to join date ratio.

[Redlines_Daily]

Originally Posted by WHEYsted

strong username to post content to join date ratio.

what

[legalaction]

Originally Posted by fliptuner

So it's the principle and not the money for you?

I do care about money but in this case it is about the bottom line. I am used to them lying to me about their cost, the popularity of the product, or other lies. I feel compassionate to car salesman on that and I do not want to make any stereotyped comments on them. But forging documents and threatening your customers? What would be your action if you were me?

[Jgresch]

Originally Posted by legalaction

VSA will only give them a warning and they will probably just give the deposit back to me after a long time. I am not concerned with getting my money back now. Forging document is a crime. Presenting and Pretending an illegal document as legal is also considered as forging document in court. Just consider this: what happens if you forged 50 pieces of $20 bill?

Actually it depends, they might be fined, or the person who forged the document could have his licence revoked. I get emails every month about stuff like this that has happened and what VSA has done to fix it.

If what your posting is truthful, you will get you rmoney back. I am unsure how far anything else will go as far as legal action because I don't have much background there.

I wish you luck and will stay away from Regency

[v.Rossi]

Fuck Regency Infiniti, Fuck Gar Purdy, Nick Andrews and Ashick(sp?). If you buy a car with such an expensive price tag, I'd suggest you go elsewhere. Any other Infiniti/Nissan dealership, you deserve better service than those dipshit cocksucking monkeys working there.

Good luck, I hope I hope I hope you win and more.

The service department is good in my books though, I have nothing bad to say about them.
Posted via RS Mobile

[GLOW]

i dont suppose you can post that manager's name here eh?

in case he goes to another dealership i want to avoid this guy. it's doubtful i'd ever purchase an infiniti b/c i'm poor

[Jgresch]

Originally Posted by v.Rossi

Fuck Regency Infiniti, Fuck Gar Purdy, Nick Andrews and Ashick(sp?). If you buy a car with such an expensive price tag, I'd suggest you go elsewhere. Any other Infiniti/Nissan dealership, you deserve better service than those dipshit cocksucking monkeys working there.

Good luck, I hope I hope I hope you win and more.

The service department is good in my books though, I have nothing bad to say about them.
Posted via RS Mobile

pm'ing you..... intrigued by this

[!Yaminashi]

Originally Posted by Jgresch

pm'ing you..... intrigue by this

FOBgresch?

[StylinRed]

This actually happens a lot


there was a report on CBC a few weeks ago from Quebec where a lady wasn't given her deposit back and she took it to the media and the dealership finally caved in

when cbc asked the bbb apparently that particular dealership had a lot of the same complaints

that dealership was later firebombed by someone (why the news went national)