Rant/Advice: Issue with Coast Appliances

[FerrariEnzo]

Originally Posted by BMW M5

He signed the portion where it says special order in the product discription, and right below that it says deposit of $1100 dated Aug 6. By doing that he accepted the terms.

LOOK at the form under the Order Type, it says "Regular Order" not special order..

[melloman]

What did VP of Operations say?

This could be something that.. if you go high enough, and threaten that BBB will stand behind you.. could scare an executive into authorizing someone to give your money back.

By the sounds of things, you pre-maturely bought another stove without thinking it through.. and now sounds like you might've lost $1000.

[BMW M5]

delete

[BMW M5]

Originally Posted by FerrariEnzo

LOOK at the form under the Order Type, it says "Regular Order" not special order..

Read what he posted. Pretty obvious when he signed in the product description that its a special order.

I have ordered hundreds of appliance from Coast. The order type could be a regular order or a rush order. Rush meaning that the customer will pay extra for freight and as soon as the item is ready it will get shipped out. Regular order means that the item will be shipped along with the next batch of order that the region is getting (group shipping).

Originally Posted by freakshow

Unfortunately, I just got off the phone with Visa..
They said that I had two possible choices of resolution:

"Credit not returned": The process used when a refund was promised but never received. Unfortunately, they said that the refund has to have been promised in writing, and that, although bad practice, they are within their right to simply say that the girl made a mistake. They said I would probably lose this type of dispute.

"Goods not received": I could use this process to claim that I never received the goods that were promised. The problem is that, if it does actually come in in december, then the claim would fail, since they can now give me the stove. Secondly, even if it doesn't come in, since the invoice says it's non-refundable, so they might just offer me store credit instead.

Overall, they said I don't have a good chance because the conversation wasn't in writing, EVEN if the girl freely admits to giving me wrong information.

Thanks for the tips about the Order Type, unfortunately, Visa said that it doesn't add much to the argument because the Order Type might not mean special vs regular, it could mean something totally different, and the fact that the stove was actually a special order might override that.

They recommended that I try to talk to coast to either split the deposit so we both take a loss, or try to reason with them and get some store credit. They definitely offered to file the dispute anyways, but said that it's definitely an uphill battle for me, and without anything in writing, it would be tough.

@quasi
Going into the store to cause a scene is about the only thing that I haven't done. I'm not opposed to doing that, but I don't know if that alone will cause them to cave for $1100. The Branch manager, Steve Edgar, isn't very friendly or compromising. He's more likely to say, and has said to me before, 'tough, we have your signature on the invoice'.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Just tell your CC compnay to give you the credit or you are switching to another compnay.

The CSR you talk to is being an asshole.Take down the CSR name and ID No and request to speak to his supervisor or a manager. If they refuse let them knwo you know 100% there have to be a supervisor on shift at all times and you will make a complain against him if he doens't do it. When I file a refund on the CC with dell they did it right away without anything.

All I told them is the Laptop is suppose to be dleivery on X date and it is still in porduction even though it pass X date. No hassle they just refund it right away.

[fsy82]

I think your being too nice and letting things slide. You need to be an asshole to get shit done now a days. They simply won't hand you the refund. Nor will Visa give you a refund if you don't bitch about it. I had this same issue with Orbits awhile back. I kept getting disconnected and no one would return my calls for a flight refund. It got to a point where I did not want to talk to a CSR anymore. Fuck I didn't even want to talk to their Supervisor. I went straight to the main manager. Within one hour I had my full refund.

NICE GUYS FINISH LAST. BE AN ASSHOLE AND SHIT WILL GET DONE!

[freakshow]

I'm definitely too much of a pansy to get things done the right way, but I've tried.

I'm talking to the branch general manager at coast, and you can tell he's stubborn. I've told him that i don't want to get Visa, BBB or small claims court involved, he doesn't care. He has my signature and no other written documents and admitted that he doesn't care about verbal commitments made.

I've talked to 3 people from the Visa Resolutions Department, but not the supervisor. They each took immense time to think about options for me and explained how their process works, and said they would gladly send in the dispute, but by the time it reaches Visa International, I'll probably end up losing the case.

VP of Ops didn't respond to my email, which was sent last night.

The only thing I have yet to do is go into Coast and make a scene, which I still might do. Other than that, I feel like I'm running out of options, but I appreciate all the input.

I should also note that I did buy the new stove from Costco, and it's fully refundable. So my worst case would be returning that one, and just accepting the one from Coast, although that would pain me on many different levels.

[gars]

After working a number of years in retail - I absolutely hate it when people make a scene if they are in the wrong. However - I've witnessed enough of the shadiness that goes on in retail to know that if you deserve a refund - ie - if you were promised one.

I'd honestly go down to coast and find the lady who promised you the refund in the first place. Get her to grab her manager and explain to you why she would promise you a refund in the first place. I'd even record the conversation. If they deny it outright, make a massive scene.

[freakshow]

Originally Posted by gars

I'd honestly go down to coast and find the lady who promised you the refund in the first place. Get her to grab her manager and explain to you why she would promise you a refund in the first place. I'd even record the conversation. If they deny it outright, make a massive scene.

Even the branch manager admits that the sales associate told me about the refund, but he said that she was wrong, and they don't just honour verbal commitments made by the employees. So they're not denying the fact that she offered it, they're just saying it was wrong, and that they won't give me a refund.

[Vulgate]

Originally Posted by freakshow

Even the branch manager admits that the sales associate told me about the refund, but he said that she was wrong, and they don't just honour verbal commitments made by the employees. So they're not denying the fact that she offered it, they're just saying it was wrong, and that they won't give me a refund.

are you recording the conversations?

If so, I would say you have legitimate dispute since the lady told you that a refund was available and the only reason you bought elsewhere.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by freakshow

Even the branch manager admits that the sales associate told me about the refund, but he said that she was wrong, and they don't just honour verbal commitments made by the employees. So they're not denying the fact that she offered it, they're just saying it was wrong, and that they won't give me a refund.

I would go and staright and said so what you are saying is everything your empolyee said could be wrong and no one will held them for it? Tell him the employee is working for your compnay so what they are are representing your compnay and they have to take responsibility. Go to the store and make a sence with that.

I say just file a chargeback with your credit card and go from there. Let the CC compnay konw the item is suppose ot arrive on X date and it didn't arrive so therefore you went and got another same product. You can even go and whine said said " So how do you expect me to cook in the my new place without a stove?" "iF i CAN'T COOK and needs to eat out coz of that will you (the CC compnay) credit all the meals out I eat out since you refuse to file a chargeback?" " I purchase the new stove so I don't have to strave, or would you rather have YOUR customer strave and refuse to give a credit for something this simple." Basically bitch at them with any reason and excuse you have till they agree on a credit.

[Expresso]

Do people NOT read the entire thread before replying these days?!

[gars]

Originally Posted by freakshow

Even the branch manager admits that the sales associate told me about the refund, but he said that she was wrong, and they don't just honour verbal commitments made by the employees. So they're not denying the fact that she offered it, they're just saying it was wrong, and that they won't give me a refund.

I dunno, that sounds so fishy. They can use that excuse all day for anything. There must be something binding for a verbal contract.

[freakshow]

Originally Posted by gars

I dunno, that sounds so fishy. They can use that excuse all day for anything. There must be something binding for a verbal contract.

Yeah, I'm talking to a lawyer tomorrow. In the meantime, does anyone know anything about the legality of verbally binding contracts and an employers vicarious liability to his employee's actions?

[BMW M5]

Seriously, for 1100 bucks you are better off asking them for a store credit or something like that. You can still see if any of your friends and family needs new appliance and give it to them for 1000bucks to make them happy.

If you go in there to make a scene, it will just make you look bad and you might even make them want to stand their grounds even more.

[suzuka84]

don't take no for an answer. It's your money and they cheated you out of it. You were promised a set delivery date and they failed to deliver to which you found a replacement in a reasonable amount of time based on their promise to return your money. $1,100 is not chump change and for that amount I would put up a picket outside their storefront to turn away their customers (informing them of your fiasco) until your full deposit is returned to you

If you give me $500 I'll do it for you too. Many retail outlets have had the above exchange done to them, the execs quickly get off their high horse and bend over.

[MG1]

Originally Posted by suzuka84

If you give me $500 I'll do it for you too. Many retail outlets have had the above exchange done to them, the execs quickly get off their high horse and bend over.

Better yet, let's have a RS mini meet. Take over the parking lot.


OR ................


get Occupy Vancouver to camp out at the location.

[BMW M5]

Originally Posted by suzuka84

don't take no for an answer. It's your money and they cheated you out of it. You were promised a set delivery date and they failed to deliver to which you found a replacement in a reasonable amount of time based on their promise to return your money. $1,100 is not chump change and for that amount I would put up a picket outside their storefront to turn away their customers (informing them of your fiasco) until your full deposit is returned to you

If you give me $500 I'll do it for you too. Many retail outlets have had the above exchange done to them, the execs quickly get off their high horse and bend over.

They didnt cheat him of his money since they will give him his stove when it comes in. Also there is no such thing as a set delivery date for a special order appliance, you usally get a ETA from them 99% of the time.

[Graeme S]

Originally Posted by BMW M5

They didnt cheat him of his money since they will give him his stove when it comes in. Also there is no such thing as a set delivery date for a special order appliance, you usally get a ETA from them 99% of the time.

The date on the invoice says Aug 20, they verbally said early October, and it's almost December.


Not trying to start an argument, but...

[Super Dipper]

go in and ask for a store credit.

purchase something with store credit of equal or higher value of store credit. Ensure there is a acceptable return policy that ensures a full refund.

Return item within acceptable timeframe that meets the return policy for a full refund.

get your cash back and never deal with them again.

yes, this way is a rather long and painful method, but you will be able to get your cash back.

[freakshow]

Originally Posted by Super Dipper

go in and ask for a store credit.

purchase something with store credit of equal or higher value of store credit. Ensure there is a acceptable return policy that ensures a full refund.

Return item within acceptable timeframe that meets the return policy for a full refund.

get your cash back and never deal with them again.

yes, this way is a rather long and painful method, but you will be able to get your cash back.

This is definitely worth a shot, however usually, even at regular retail stores, if you pay with store credit, don't they refund you with store credit?

[StylinRed]

im certain theres a rule about time frames regarding these contracts i just cant find the exact line atm

or else anyone can make open a store offer insane deals and take deposits for them and never deliver they'll simply say "oh its not here yet"


but they originally promised you October not December so they've already missed the boat on that you should be entitled to your deposit based solely on that you should tell Visa that as well goods were promised in October its now the end of November

it sounds like you're just letting everyone push you around... after all they wont the hassle of doing work you have to stick it to them and get them to run around for you instead.

[Sunfighter]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

I would go and staright and said so what you are saying is everything your empolyee said could be wrong and no one will held them for it? Tell him the employee is working for your compnay so what they are are representing your compnay and they have to take responsibility. Go to the store and make a sence with that.

I say just file a chargeback with your credit card and go from there. Let the CC compnay konw the item is suppose ot arrive on X date and it didn't arrive so therefore you went and got another same product. You can even go and whine said said " So how do you expect me to cook in the my new place without a stove?" "iF i CAN'T COOK and needs to eat out coz of that will you (the CC compnay) credit all the meals out I eat out since you refuse to file a chargeback?" " I purchase the new stove so I don't have to strave, or would you rather have YOUR customer strave and refuse to give a credit for something this simple." Basically bitch at them with any reason and excuse you have till they agree on a credit.

Dude, I don't think you understand how a chargeback works... I can't speak to the specific scenerio that you experienced with Dell (though I suspect it was an online purchase), but the Credit Card companies aren't here to moderate petty disputes between brick & mortar retailers and customers. They don't govern the return/exchange policies of individual stores and then administer justice on behalf of the customer if a deal goes sideways. They exist to produce profit extracted from service charges from vendors/retailers and card fees and interest from cardholders. That they DO have mechanisms in place to help ensure the integrity of their services is an entirely different component of their business and is designed to protect themselves as much as it is to protect the consumer. If this retailer swiped the individual's card and have a legible signature, then they have fullfilled their obligation with respect to the terms of liability with the CC company. If the customer used Chip & Pin then he/she certainly has no grounds upon which to file a chargeback.

Chargebacks are a mechanism designed to force brick & mortar retailers to DEMONSTRATE proof that the customer/card holder in question legitimately processed a transaction (IE ~ the business would have to show a legible card imprint if not swiped (historically), a signature, etc., etc., etc.). The customer has already conceded that the charge on his card is legitimate. He is contended that the terms of his arrangement with the retailer with respect to the estimated delivery date are erroneous. That is between him and the retailer, not the CC company. For VISA to arbitrarily chargeback Coast would be a violation of their own arrangement so don't suggest that some CSR is at a fault here. Your online purchase with Dell was an entirely different affair.

Companies that operate online and accept CCs electronically are held to different standards by Credit Card companies and their terms and conditions with respect to chargebacks, etc., are far more draconian than those brick & mortar retailers are held too.

The liability shift initiated by MC/Visa in late-2010 (and finally deployed earlier this year) has shifted almost the entire transaction liability onto the B&M retailer... (a swipe, imprint or signature isn't necessarily enough if a card has a CHIP).... but in this case the customer has already expressed verbally that the transaction was legitimate.

From VISA regarding the prevention of Chargebacks:

If your establishment has policies regarding merchandise returns, refunds, or service cancellation, disclose these policies to the cardholder at the time of the transaction. Your policy should be pre-printed on your sales receipts; if not, write or stamp your refund/return policy information on the sales receipt near the customer signature line before the customer signs (be sure the policy shows clearly on all copies of the sales receipt). Failure to disclose such policies at the time of the transaction will be to your disadvantage should the customer return the merchandise.

The VISA reps are always extremely well versed with what they are and are not capable of doing with respect to chargebacks. From my experience, they will typically do EVERYTHING in their power if they have grounds to do so... sounds like they looked in great detail at this case before they backed off. Invoice clearly shows that the deposit is non-refundable...


I totally sympathize with the customer though... it's a tough situation... I would argue that the retailer has zero obligation to refund his deposit but if I was a retailer and one of my employees made a mistake (in this case a verbal mistake), policies aside, I would look after the customer.....

[Lomac]

Often special orders can take a long time. Where I work, although special orders usually take between 2-3 weeks, they can take upwards of up to two months. While four months seems rather outrageous for an order, it is possible that it's necessary.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

[StylinRed]

you can also contact consumer protection bc

they'll help you mediate any issues as well


you can write a complaint to them here Submitting a Written Complaint to Us

or call them 1-888-564-9963