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The John Norwich Riders CornerIn honour of our fellow moderator: John Norwich R.I.P. September 17th, 2014
Buy, sell, trade bikes and gear, set up bike rallies, meet discussions. #revscenebikes
u can put me on the (interested list). might purchase a bike over the weekend.
i think you should take the course first, then purchase a bike. get a sense of what bike would best fit you. it didn't change my initial decision when i went to PRS, but it definitely made more sense why the older guys don't get sportbikes to run around town :P
i started on a '78 GS400. it was a great bike to learn on. i would recommend it to anyone. they can be found for cheap, are cheap to insure, and cheap to run. even parts are cheap.
ive been riding for 9 years now.. i started on a 125 then jumped too a 250 then sat my ass on a 600 rode that for awhile got power hungry took on a 1000, nice power but definitely not as good as a 600 for corners... i suggest a 250 for beginners even if u decide to take the course if u sit on a 400 or 600 to start which most ppl do cuz they dont like the rear tire.... try a 250 u will learn agility on the street. heres a video that might make u want a bike lol
I think Alphamale might be selling his GS400. Was in tip top condition when I last saw it (a month or two ago.)
Might want to consider that bike to start and work your way up if you want to keep you expenses low and put that money towards proper riding gear. Insurance is cheap too!
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Originally Posted by BIC_BAWS
I literally do not plan on buying another vehicle in my lifetime, assuming it doesn't get written off.
^
+1 gear is IMPORTANT. i would much rather spend 2g's less on a bike and use it towards good gear. after all it's your flesh wrapped around the bike, not the other way around =/
Thanks for the advice guys. In that case I'll start considering 600s again. It's just every time I go on bike forums I see posts like these (and any time anyone disagrees, 50 more people flame the crap out of them):
Spoiler!
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Originally Posted by Rev. Intrigue (Stickied post on gixxer.com forums)
If you want to ask about an "r" bike as a first bike PLEASE do not post ANOTHER new thread about it, just read this, and ask a question, myself or someone else will be glad to answer your questions.
I've been seeing a lot of posts in this forum lately asking about success stories for "R" bikes, and "Im new but I got a gsx-r 1000, is this okay?"... "Is it okay to buy a gsx-r 600 as a first bike"
No. Plain and simple. The stickies in this forum offer you a wealth of information on why this is a bad choice. If you don't feel like reading them, lets break it down for you.
1.) Speed: I'm starting with this one because it's the most popular. Even a gsx-r 600 will out-accelerate, out-turn, and out-brake all but the most heavily modified sports cars (we aren't talking civic here, we're talking like modified corvette, or a modified viper, or maybe a 700hp streetcar). I hear many people saying they may get bored on these bikes. You won't get bored, ever. And it is very difficult to master these bikes by learning on them, they are just too much bike.
2.) Brakes: The brakes on any R bike are race-type brakes. They are made for setting up into corners while travelling very fast. This means, on the street, when you grab even a little bit of brake (as a new rider you make mistakes) you will lock up the wheels. Hope you enjoyed the ride, because it's over.
3.) Throttle: I hear people saying if they are responsible and control the throttle, they will be okay. They will only turn it a quarter turn... Hate to tell you, but a quarter turn is almost if not all the way full-throttle. We are talking 1/16ths of a turn or less for regular acceleration. You have to literally turn this thing by quarter centimeters if you dont want to accelerate hard.
4.) Cost: Insurance, initial investment, and repairs. SVS Posted something about one right-side lower fairing being ~450$. This means you can spend upwards of 1500$ for a low-speed crash. Imagine what happens when you highside and need to replace fairings, clutch/brake lever, bar-ends, etc etc.
5.) Responsiveness: The clip-ons ("handlebars") have a very very limited range of motion compared to what you are used to (if you ride dirt, atv, bicycle, etc). They travel a VERY short arc. This, in turn, means that R-type bikes respond to millimeters in inputs. They are designed to do EXACTLY what they are told, and if you are telling it to do something wrong, it will do it, and it can kill you. These bikes are made to be very nimble with a small input to the clip-ons.
6.) Learning: It is so much easier to learn on a slower bike. You can learn position, throttle control, clutch control, shifting techniques, emergency control situations, collision avoidance, and turn control. On an R bike, you will be watching the throttle, the brakes, and the input you are giving to the bike. You won't be able to leave that as second nature and learn how to whip that bike around.
In conclusion, it doesn't matter if you have ridden dirt for 10 years (I rode dirt for 8 years before I got my first bike; and it is TOTALLY different) or have driven the lingelfelter corvette to taiwan and back. You don't have enough experience for sport bike riding. They are just too powerful. You are not going to be able to deal with it, and you will be a worse rider than you could have been. Everyone thinks they are the exception, you aren't.. Believe me.. If anyone is the exception, they are already professional racers.
I hope I can sway some of you, I know you will do what you want in the end, but know that you are making a big mistake, one that may cost you your life.
Now I don't see myself having any difficulties with ego - I was and am still prepared to get a 125cc bike despite the fact my friends have pledged to call me a pussy every passing day until I sell it off again . And I don't see myself having any shortage of respect for power / reigning in aggression - I've gone to enough track days and driving schools in BC and Ontario to see what it's like for people to push too hard (especially in their "invincible" Evo's and STI's) and smash into concrete walls or spin across curbs at triple digit speeds (this one guy in an M3 literally tore a rim right off its spokes). I've waited almost 5 years to make sure I was in the right state of mind before I decided I would go for the course this year.
But these guys are making it sound like a quarter millimeter turn of the throttle from idle at 6th gear would result in the bike flipping over backwards from the power. No amount of respect and humility + a week of riding school is going to save me from something like that. So are they all just exaggerating then, or do I really have something to worry about here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieH
^
+1 gear is IMPORTANT. i would much rather spend 2g's less on a bike and use it towards good gear. after all it's your flesh wrapped around the bike, not the other way around =/
I should be okay on gear, I got in on that AYC sale and have these already:
-A* GP Plus leather jacket
-A* Apex leather pants
-A* GP Plus gloves
-A* S-MX5 boots
I have an Arai Quantum II as well, so all I'm missing now is a spine protector unless you guys can think of anything else. And yes, I plan to wear all of this stuff on every single ride even if it's 34 degrees out there. Even if I'm on a CBR125 and look like an idiot wearing all that gear. This is the end result of all the fear-mongering and scare-tactics on bcsportbikes and various other bike forums hahaha.
Some people may not agree with me (which is fine) but my 2 cents on the post you quoted from the other forum. The 600cc+ veterans should definitely chime in on this one.
The post has its pros and cons. Most of which are exaggerated and blown out of proportion in my opinion.
1. Speed - Duh. A bike will be faster than a modified sports car. Physics wins. Always.
2. Brakes - No shit. This is a bike. Not a 3,500lb car. At PRS, they will teach you how to modulate brakes, both front and rear.
3. Throttle - There's truth to what he says but seriously, fuck that shit. Just take it easy when you get on the bike. Again, you will learn throttle and clutch control @ PRS. This one's a no-brainer. PRS guys - "Clutch and braaaaaake!"
4. Cost - Whatever. If you're prepared to buy a 600cc bike, you should be prepared for the insurance costs. The jump in price from a 400cc to a 600cc bike isn't that much more. Plus, you have the option of insuring through Beacon @ Cassells (I'm sure a lot of guys insure through them here.)
5. Responsiveness - Again, a no brainer. Most 600cc+ bikes have a proper suspension setup. This is a bike, for crying out loud. Handling etc. will come with experience and training/reading. Again, you'll learn this at PRS.
6. Learning - You'll likely learn on a Kawasaki Sherpa @ PRS which is I think 250cc? They're easy to learn on but when moving from that to a 600cc+ sport bike, there isn't much of a learning curve so this guy blew things out of proportion (again, in my opinion.)
7. Gear - Looks like you got that one pat down. That and you took advantage of the AYC sale. Never skimp on gear!
If you're not feeling comfortable with a 600cc bike to start, that's fine. You have other options. Like I said, Alphamale is selling his GS400. Fucking guy is riding a CBR600F4i now. It's a good beginner bike and good to learn on, a compromise between a 250cc and 600cc bike. Great if you're looking to develop your skills during your first season. Hope that helps.
Edit: As much as I love my cafe racer, I'd rock a 600cc sport bike any day.
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Originally Posted by BIC_BAWS
I literally do not plan on buying another vehicle in my lifetime, assuming it doesn't get written off.
I think as long as you guys think these people are blowing the throttle mapping thing out of proportion, I'm absolutely fine with considering a 600 or 750. I might still stick with something older like an F4 though so when I inevitably drop it at low speed it won't be so bad. There was a nice yellow one on Craigs the other day.
Most 600cc sport bikes are pretty tame until you get into the upper range of the power band. And if you ride in the city, really, you can easily cruise around town in 1st or 2nd gear. No joke.
If people think the riding position on sport bikes are aggressive, damn. Wait until you take a ride on my cafe racer.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIC_BAWS
I literally do not plan on buying another vehicle in my lifetime, assuming it doesn't get written off.
dude i read that exact post before i started riding and it scared the shit out of me. there's some truth to what the guy says but he blows it way out of proportion.
for example, he says that if you grab the front brake on the streets you'll lock up the front and the bike will go down... that's just complete bullshit. for reference, the gixxer's brakes (pre 2011) aren't nearly as good as the ones on my car, so it's not like the damn thing will snap you off the bike as soon as you get on them. it's actually very forgiving, if not a little weak imo. the only way you'd lock the front up is if you suddenly slam on the brakes way too hard, if there's no heat in the front tire, if the tire pressure's too high or if you get on the front brakes mid corner. at PRS they teach you to modulate the brake pressure in order to maximize braking efficiency in a safe manner and it works. none of my friends have ever locked of the front brakes, and with proper training you can even control a front end skid.
the thing about throttle, how 1/16 of a turn will move the bike xxx km/h is actually true. it sounds scary as shit but it's really not. your hands have the most dexterity out of any part of your body, and can easily make tiny throttle inputs. there are certain techniques to hand and body positioning that pretty much eliminate the chances of accidentally snapping on the throttle, so it's really not nearly as scary as it sounds.
and like the rest of these guys have said, a 600's power band doesn't even start until after 8000rpm so you have tons of room to learn safely on. once you finish PRS, it will definitely give you a much better idea of what kind of bike you'd want to get but it'll also teach you to ride at your own pace, which in the end is still the most important factor to being safe.
i totally agree with you guys.. but the thing is a bike is not as forgiving as a car would be. we all know that when u buy a big bike to start off with ur just aiming at the look of the bike. if your saying ur not power hungry then why not start with a ninja 250r?? if u buy a 600 right off the bat you will not even be able to exceed its potential as a new rider my friend. once u have fully exceeded the limits of a 250 then it would make sense to get a 400 or 600. if money is a issue i would highly recommend 2008+ ninja 250RR they are great looking and have lots of power more then the usall 250cc. Being a safe rider will gain u more respect then having a big bike that u are not able to control yet. just to add the powerband usually hits around the 7g to 8g area but the thing is the big problem on a bike is lol sometimes the most dangerous thing is u dont even know how fast ur going which usually leads to accidents...
i totally agree with you guys.. but the thing is a bike is not as forgiving as a car would be. we all know that when u buy a big bike to start off with ur just aiming at the look of the bike. if your saying ur not power hungry then why not start with a ninja 250r?? if u buy a 600 right off the bat you will not even be able to exceed its potential as a new rider my friend. once u have fully exceeded the limits of a 250 then it would make sense to get a 400 or 600. if money is a issue i would highly recommend 2008+ ninja 250RR they are great looking and have lots of power more then the usall 250cc. Being a safe rider will gain u more respect then having a big bike that u are not able to control yet. just to add the powerband usually hits around the 7g to 8g area but the thing is the big problem on a bike is lol sometimes the most dangerous thing is u dont even know how fast ur going which usually leads to accidents...
There's an acquaintance who's a friend of Charlie's I had trouble convincing to just get a 600 over a 250 a couple years ago. I explained to him he'd get bored of it within a season and it will save him the time and trouble from upgrading a short distance down the road. (He didn't take riding school). Low and behold, within the year he wanted to sell and upgrade.
Unless you track the darn thing, no one can exceed the limits of a 250 or use the full potential of a 600, especially on public roads.
Truth is you're probably going to get power hungry after you get used to the hum drum power band of the 250r lol. You'll know what I mean after finishing riding school. Its that empty feeling you get when the party's over and the music stops, and you're like.. "That's it??" Posted via RS Mobile
There's an acquaintance who's a friend of Charlie's I had trouble convincing to just get a 600 over a 250 a couple years ago. I explained to him he'd get bored of it within a season and it will save him the time and trouble from upgrading a short distance down the road. (He didn't take riding school). Low and behold, within the year he wanted to sell and upgrade.
Unless you track the darn thing, no one can exceed the limits of a 250 or use the full potential of a 600, especially on public roads.
Truth is you're probably going to get power hungry after you get used to the hum drum power band of the 250r lol. You'll know what I mean after finishing riding school. Its that empty feeling you get when the party's over and the music stops, and you're like.. "That's it??" Posted via RS Mobile
i totally disagree with u on not being able to exceed the potential of a 250 or 600 lol if ur gonna be a granny on a bike might as well not get one lol . sounds like u have been riding for awhile?? cuz last time i checked experienced riders will corner a 250r at 180 lool whats the point of having the power if ur not gonna use it??? its like turboing ur car and just saying its a turbo??? soo are u a rider?? or just someone that wants to be flashy?? cuz if u wanna be flashy yeah go ahead start on a 600, guarantee u will drop ur bike. why would u even wanna put urself in a postion of having any chance of droping the bike. im just talkin out of experience. but hey i guess every ones diff.
in case you haven't noticed the new speeding laws get serious as soon as you hit 40 over the limit... which is 120 km/h on sea2sky, barely enough to get any lean angle on our bikes. so realistically none of us can take a 600 or even a 250 to the limits unless it's going to be at the track. that said i definitely think it's a great idea to start on a 250, but i sure as hell wouldn't tell anyone to gtfo if they wanted to start on a 600. it all depends on that person's maturity.
i totally disagree with u on not being able to exceed the potential of a 250 or 600 lol if ur gonna be a granny on a bike might as well not get one lol . sounds like u have been riding for awhile?? cuz last time i checked experienced riders will corner a 250r at 180 lool whats the point of having the power if ur not gonna use it??? its like turboing ur car and just saying its a turbo??? soo are u a rider?? or just someone that wants to be flashy?? cuz if u wanna be flashy yeah go ahead start on a 600, guarantee u will drop ur bike. why would u even wanna put urself in a postion of having any chance of droping the bike. im just talkin out of experience. but hey i guess every ones diff.
I think you heavily misinterpreted what I meant. I am trying to point out there's little to no where in the GVRD you can throw the bike into a corner at speeds near its thresholds, which kind of renders that argument obsolete. Unless he doesn't plan on hanging onto his license for long, its completely irrelevant for him.
I do believe in spirited riding, but there's really not all that many places to do it (to the extent in which you're implying) without getting GG'd in Vancouver. If you do spirited ride near the threshold of your bike, I can guarantee you, you won't be on the road for very long with the new road rules implemented.
I lost my license in 2009 for such shinanigans, I'm sure someone else on here can chime in as they had to endure that pain staking process with me.
I'm pretty sure its fair to say everyone here is speaking out of our own experience. I have not been riding long, this season will be my fourth, but I've yet to drop any of my bikes *touch wood* and I started on a k5 750
The only time I was ever able to take full advantage of an motor's displacement was my Vespa 150. All 150cc going down the Knight Street Bridge to 5th Gear for the BCSB BBQ Meets. And I couldn't corner for shit because there was no room for it. I'm a gangster, right? Hah!
Otherwise, I'm with Charlie and the other on this one. Nobody will ever take full advantage of their bikes other than at the track. Even with a Ninja 250cc, on the highway, you're up there in the 10k+ RPM just to keep up with the flow of traffic. Already you're pushing hard on that motor. And on the S2S - sorry man. The consequences are too dire. Especially public humiliation on Revscene and BC Sport Bikes.
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Originally Posted by BIC_BAWS
I literally do not plan on buying another vehicle in my lifetime, assuming it doesn't get written off.
Yeah there's my other concern.. I plan to avoid city riding at all costs, I've had enough close calls with people not even seeing my s2k. So I'm mainly wanting to ride out to the interior, sea2sky (slowly) etc. But it sounds like it'll be dangerous on a 125cc bike.
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lol 
. And I don't see myself having any shortage of respect for power / reigning in aggression - I've gone to enough track days and driving schools in BC and Ontario to see what it's like for people to push too hard (especially in their "invincible" Evo's and STI's) and smash into concrete walls or spin across curbs at triple digit speeds (this one guy in an M3 literally tore a rim right off its spokes). I've waited almost 5 years to make sure I was in the right state of mind before I decided I would go for the course this year.
thats on the other extreme end of the spectrum. 
